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** They adopted, Halloweentown is actually hell, and as kids died, Jack & Sally gathered them up into their family. Of course, that particular song is non-canon, as it wasn't used... so... maybe Danny Elfman just went a bit too far, and Tim Burton had it cut because he started to think about it too?
** Well, to be fair [[Comically Missing the Point|he did say four]] ''[[Comically Missing the Point|or]]'' [[Comically Missing the Point|five children.]]
** [[Wild Mass Guessing|Maybe Jack is a child of]] [[The Grim Reaper|Death]] and a [[Who Framed Roger Rabbit?|Toon]]? At the fansite [[Schmuck Bait|someone suggested that Jack has]] {{spoiler|[[Squick|strap-on balls]]}}. [[Crazy Prepared|I've already bought the]] [[Brain Bleach]].
** [[Word of God|According to the]] [[DVD Commentary]], [[Tim Burton]] said that Jack not eating is worrying so in Jack's case (and Sally's case too - she also apparently eats) if they need to eat like living people, reproduction isn't all that out there. Of course, their form of reproduction might be different then ours, like they could [[Futurama|hold hands while feeling love to reproduce]]. Though that puts a [[G-Rated Sex|different]] [[Getting Crap Past the Radar|spin]] on the ending . . .
** Does it matter? This has been conveniently ignored in all the other NBC media anyways.
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**** Hmmm, good point. However, if they ''weren't'' suppose to be his kids, the writers were just asking for confusion putting "skeleton children" in there ("monster children" would fit the meter and be less confusing).
** It's official. ''Somebody'' needs to ask Tim Burton or Henry Selick about this.
** In ''[[Xanth (Literature)|Xanth]]'', skeletons reproduce by taking one of each of their own bones together with a pile of other bones...or something to that extent, it's been awhile since I read #17. Perhaps something along these lines?
*** Still, why children? While Jack and Sally would probably love being parents, I don't think they'd like to be parents to little kids (presumably, the kids in the poem are little) forever. I remember seeing a webcomic where the author had Dr. Finklestein create kids for Jack and Sally, and they were in their teens (because apparently [[Critical Research Failure|teenagers are a lot easier to take care of than little kids]]).
** It could be that they aren't a skeleton and a corpse, just very vague fantasy beings made to fit the theme of the assigned holiday. I always just thought of them as walking, talking Halloween decorations rather than being literal versions of what they represent.
*** That sounds like an awesome theory, not to mention good material for [[Fanfic]] in the right hands . . . except Jack refers to himself as being dead in "Jack's Lament". If he was a vague fantasy being, why would he do that?
**** Because when he mentions that he's dead, he's talking about scaring people and being in character. He represents a skeleton, so, by assumption of his victim, a dead person.
** Concerning Jack, this troper is always amused by the fact that everyone says, "oh, Jack's a skeleton, therefore he doesn't have the downstairs equipment." Seriously, where's the evidence that Jack's 100 percent skeleton? Has ''anyone'' ever seen Jack naked?[[hottip:*: Fangirls, [[Perverse Sexual Lust|please restrain yourselves from volunteering]] <ref> And no, the ''[[James and Thethe Giant Peach]]'' cameo doesn't count, as it's arguable if that's canon to ''Nightmare''</ref>
*** In agreement with the above, it always seems odd that people don't question the fact that Jack has eyelids, a (forked) tongue, and fingers which can be pricked by Sally's sewing needle, but they insist on realism when it comes to the "how can Jack have kids?" question.
**** Nor do they question why Jack and Sally can walk, talk, sing, eat, can die, etc. Actually, it's pretty bizarre that out of the things to cry foul on, it's something from a cut-off poem.
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** Jack is a poor study; he is shown only giving cursory glances to his books.
* This it just bugs me is in relation to the whole "how-can-Jack-and-Sally-have-kids-when-they're-dead" thing. How come most of the fans, as far as I can tell, will accept the prequel and sequel games as canon when neither Henry Selick nor [[Tim Burton]] nor [[Danny Elfman]] had involvment with them, yet something on the soundtrack, which at least the words must come from the writers and/or [[Danny Elfman]], is contested? I know, [[You Fail Biology Forever|it's not possible for dead people to reproduce]], but neither is dead people walking, talking, singing, or having the need to eat, which Jack and Sally obviously does. Can't we say "[[MST3K Mantra|it's a fantasy]]" and move on?
** This troper remembers reading that Pumpkin King (The GBA game) happens a year BEFORE the movie, while Oogie's Revenge (The [[PSPlay Station 2]] and [[X Box]] game) happens only a year AFTER, where as they had "four or five children" years after, if I remember the poem correctly, also, I remember reading Danny Elfman's name in the latter's credits.
*** The timeline isn't the problem. The problem is that fans are more likely to take games that aren't created by the original creators as canon over a cut-off poem that was.
* Sally gives Jack an, uh, "meal" or something to that amount to show her affection for him and Jack seems rather pleased with it. Presumably, this means that the concept of giving gifts them isn't completely alien to the residents of Halloween Town. So why is it so hard for them to understand what Christmas presents are?
** Perhaps the giving of gifts they get, but it's the "wrapping-them-up-in-pretty-paper-with-a-bow" bit that confuses them.
** While not entirely canon to the movie/games, in [[Kingdom Hearts II (Video Game)|Kingdom Hearts II]], Jack was noted to have picked up a box, with the paper torn off and bow discarded, stepping on the doll that was inside, and say "What a shame, it looked like such a nice present". My only response to this is that Jack and the residents of Halloween Town believe that giving a present is determined by how nice it looks. Then again, he seems to know that a gift is really inside the box, in the game and movie.
* [[This Troper]] ''really'' wants to see what's in "St.Patrick's Day Town".
** One would assume it involves getting completely and utterly shitfaced drunk on a regular basis.
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*** I always thought that they could use openings decorated to represent their holidays as portals. That's why someone made the holiday trees, and how Jack can use a random tomb he just happened to land near to get to get to Halloweentown. Their towns exist in the "real" world, the doors are just shortcuts.
** I liked that they didn't explain it. It's eerie and interesting, and I think that's the point. He just… wandered into Limbo, like it was meant to be. Like fate cleared a path for him.
* Oogie Boogie [[Incredibly Lame Pun|bugs me]]. I mean, considering he's a Disney villain, and that Disney has given us the likes of [[Fantasia|Chernabog]], [[The Little Mermaid|Ursula]], and [[The Hunchback of Notre Dame (Disney film)|Frollo]], he's just pathetic. He's got no real motivation, and we're never told ''why'' he and Jack hate each other so much. The original poem didn't have a villain, either, so I've just been forced to conclude that Selick or Burton had to come up with a [[Card-Carrying Villain|bad guy]] to satisfy something in the contract.
** While this troper would have ''love'' to hear why Oogie and Jack hate each other (and I'm not satisfied with the Pumpkin King game explanation, either), I think you're giving Oogie little credit. While he doesn't want to [[Take Over the World]] or anything like that, he ''does'' have a motivation - sadism and, apparently, hunger. He seems to love torturing people, which is pretty dark for a Disney Villain. Also, there's at least seven skeletons in his lair, so he's killed before (according to [[The Other Wiki]], he's the first Disney Villain to have killed previous to the movie).
** Are we so sure that Jack and Oogie really hated each other before the latter tried to eat <s> Sandy</s> Santa and Sally? We never hear Oogie talk about Jack, but the way Jack spoke of Oogie seems more "he's-a-waste-of-space" rather then straight-out hate. It's only ''after'' Oogie tries to kill Sally and Santa when the dislike upgraded itself to "[[This Means War|I'm-going-to-fucking-kill-you]]".
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***** By the way, Oogie Boogie IS a [[Complete Monster]] and one of the worst ones among the Disney Villains - Great part of 'em had a specific goals (power, money, girls etc.), Oogie toys with people's lives, kill'em and keep their remaning bones as trophy FOR PURE SICK FUN.
* Am I the only one who sees how much of an egotistical, selfish twat Jack really is!? He's convinced himself he could do Christmas better than the people who do it for a living and when he fails the goes into self pity for a ''very'' short while. Because he's basically the boss no one ever tells him No. Considering how quickly he's willing to jump in to take over Christmas, AND how quickly he gets over his pity party, you can expect that this happens fairly often to him. Kinda make you wonder exactly how idealistic Jack and Sally's relationship is going to be....
** [[Fridge Logic|Wait,]] ''[[Fridge Logic|not]]'' [[Fridge Logic|quickly getting over his self-pity party isn't selfish?]] Also, while Jack ''can'' be egotistical and selfish, I think calling him a twat is overdoing it. Note that after he gets over his pity party, ''he goes to set things right''. I think Jack is more [[Jerk Withwith a Heart of Gold|an egotistical guy who has a good heart]], as well as being an [[Idiot Hero]] and a [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]]. And I think Jack really ''hates'' the fact that people practically worship him and no one tells him no (again, note how distressed Jack gets when the citizens wouldn't let him go). That probably one of the reasons Jack loves Sally -- ''because'' she told him he was wrong. Plus, are we so sure it was "quickly"? The movie is about an hour and fifteen minutes, so we can't be sure just how long it took Jack to decide to take over Christmas. Also, that's Jack's [[Character Development]] -- learning that he ''can't'' do something better than the people who makes Christmas for a living (Hey, [[Not So Different|how many of us tropers thought we could make a movie better than the directors?]]). Actually, that's the reason why I like Jack -- he's not perfect, he has some serious flaws that not only gets him into trouble, but it causes the plot in the first place! Admittedly, Jack has done some questionable things (hiring three evil little trick-or-treaters to kidnap Santa) but then again, he both meant well (he obviously thought he was giving Santa a vacation) and has [[Blue and Orange Morality]] -- he probably didn't think kidnapping was wrong (Weekly in [[Halloweentown]]: Kidnapping parties! Next this week: the Mayor!....for the eighth week in a row.) As to how idealistic Jack and Sally's relationship will be.....it'll probably have some problems, but all couples have problems, it's the question of how well they deal with those problems. Jack and Sally most likely can teach each other the things they need to learn -- Sally can teach Jack how to think before leaping and be someone Jack cares about other then himself, and Jack can teach Sally not to take <s> life</s> afterlife so sadly and seriously. (Hey, like [[The Princess and Thethe Frog|Tiana and Naveen]]!)
** To add on to the previous entry, this troper personally thinks Jack is more sympathetic in the movie than in the original poem. In the poem, Jack basically got bored of Halloween, while in the movie, Jack was also the Pumpkin King, having the stress of preparing for Halloween on top of being tired of the holiday (the Mayor evens comes to Jack's house VERY early in the morning right after the night of Halloween, and it's indicated that happens often). Now put that on top of the fact that, unlike other people who gets tired of their jobs, Jack didn't have the option of taking a vacation -- as far as we can tell, he thought the only places there were are either the Real World (who probably wouldn't be too kind to him, [[What Measure Is a Non-Human?|considering he's a skeleton]]) or Halloweenland, which is freaking obsessed with Halloween ''and'' the inhabitants would probably know Jack, therefore assuring that he wouldn't get any rest. In the poem, Jack seems to have friends while in the movie, with the exception of Sally and ''maybe'' the Mayor, he's more like a celebrity with fans that says they know him so well but really don't. [[Lonely At the Top]], ya know. Also, if you listen to the lyrics, "Poor Jack" isn't really a self-pity party, it's more expressing guilt over what he's done ("But I never intended all this madness, never...").
{{quote| What have I done? What have I done?<br />
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Spoiled all, spoiled all<br />
Everything's gone all wrong }}
* Soooooooooo........[[What Happened to Thethe Mouse?|What Happened To The Elves?]] Seriously, you would think that Mrs. Claus or the elves would worry about the fact that, respectively, ''their husband and leader was kidnapped and taken to a ghoulish world''.
** And unless Jack somehow sneaked a snowmobile and a large bag of presents out of storage without any of them noticing, they would have a pretty good idea who to blame when three trick-or-treaters kidnapped Santa.
** Who says they knew about Halloween Town? Santa didn't seem to.
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* [[Fan Girl|As much as I love Jack]], the part where he gets angry at Lock, Shock, and Barrel for going through the wrong door seems pretty douchey to me. I mean, he didn't even ''tell'' them that there's more than one door, it's his fault that they kidnapped the Easter Bunny!
** Actually, he said "Which door? There's more than one!". They just got the wrong shape.
* This troper's been thinking . . . is Sally really a [[Stalker Withwith a Crush]]? The only times Sally is stalking without due cause (trying to get Jack to not go through with Christmas) that I can think of is when she listens to Jack in "Jack's Lament" and when she goes to give him the little gift basket. The former actually doesn't really count, as she was there first when Jack came into the cemetery. So is she?
** Yes.
*** Could you be a bit more specific as why she is, that josses the above arguments?
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* ... in "Oogie's Revenge" and the first Kingdom Hearts game they animated Jack's mouth wrong. They stretched and squashed it into shape instead of replacing the position of the mouth frame-by-frame like in the original movie, and it bugs me. His face loses its vivacious quality without it. They fixed it in Kingdom Hearts 2, but still...
** And on that note, why didn't someone tell Chris Sarandon that it was "Finkle-STINE" in the movie, not "Finkle-STEEN" like he pronounced it in the games? I'm splitting hairs, but that's what this page is for...
*** Did anyone ever call the Dr. by his name in the movie? I've watched it an awful lot (especially when The Insomnia Donkey kicks me), and I can't remember ever hearing anyone call him by name in the movie. Then again, most of the times I watching it, I'm running on two or three days without sleep, so I could very easily be sleeping through or missing things like that. (I usually say "Finkle-STEEN" anyway; even if it's not what the creators intended, I think it would be an awesomely hilarious [[Shout -Out]] to ''[[Young Frankenstein]]'' if it's pronounced "-Steen".)
*** Yeah, when Dr. Finklestein goes to get his Christmas job from Jack, you can hear the Mayor in the background saying, "Dr. Finkle-STINE, to the front of the line!"
* [[Left Fielder|This is coming out of left field]], but am I the only one who thinks the characters should have [[Everything Sounds Sexier in French|French accents]]? I'm not quite sure why (maybe it's the music . . .), but something about Nightmare screams "French" to me. [[Cloudcuckoolander|Maybe I'm just being weird]].
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* When Jack is shot down by the police and the people realize that Santa isn't coming, instead of going for a "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" moral and teaching Jack that Christmas was never just about the presents and decoration like he thought, they actually announce that Christmas will be cancelled this year because Santa can't come. Apparently, Christianity doesn't even exist in this universe.
** In the "real world" of this movie, Christmas exists as it is seen by children. That is why you never see the adults' faces, Santa really delivers presents, and the military will shoot down a Santa impersonator. From a kid's point of view, a lack of presents would mean Christmas really was cancelled. The movie just portrays this as the reaction of the entire world.
** [[Did Not Do the Research|Christians didn't always celebrate Christmas, you know.]] Christmas was originally a pagan celebration of the winter solstice that was absorbed into Christianity to combat the pagan celebrations. It's possible that in this universe that with the holidays having their own worlds, that the holiday Christmas, and by extension Easter, are celebrated in their secular forms, and the religious forms are celebrated separately. There's two possible reasons why they didn't go with a ''[[How the Grinch Stole Christmas (Literaturenovel)|How the Grinch Stole Christmas]]'' moral: 1. if the human children didn't care about getting presents (or, more likely, worrying about Santa's well-being), Jack won't have a reason to rush back and save Santa (and with Oogie about to eat Santa, that would have been disastrous) and 2. The writers didn't want to rip off ''[[How the Grinch Stole Christmas (Literaturenovel)|How the Grinch Stole Christmas]]''.
* Why is it Jack is the only one who got bored of Halloween? Has he been doing this longer than anyone else?
** Since he's basically become synonymous with Halloween in the first place, his ''whole life'' is forced to revolve around that one single day. It's understandable that sooner or later he'd get sick of it.
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