Torture Always Works: Difference between revisions
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The information extracted under torture is always accurate and important, even if the interrogator himself starts with no information at all and so has no way to know if the prisoner is telling the truth or lying. The possibility of having the wrong person, who will say ''anything'' under torture [[Interrogated for Nothing|whether they know anything or not]], will be excluded. Often as not, the victim is then released with no consequences to them if they lied.
The only times when torture doesn't work is when the tortured is just too [[Badass]] to be broken, and doesn't say anything at all. When characters object to torture, they are often portrayed as weak [[Strawman Political|liberal Strawmen]] who "don't have what it takes" or "don't realize what's at stake". They only make moral criticisms, and never bother to point out that it's unreliable, presumably because they too know that it Always Works. Even when it doesn't work, characters who should know better assume that it will.
In [[Real Life]], torture rarely provides reliable information. (Which is why the real reason it is used is almost always to instill fear rather than obtain information.) The only way to get truly trustworthy information using torture is to check it somehow before you use it. Actual torturers often use torture not to get information, but to get people to tell them facts they already know from other sources (but that the victim doesn't know they know), in detail, and then get them to tell them more information. Of course, there are those who may not exactly be ''looking'' for the truth, in which case a [[False Confession]] or other plausible lie may be exactly what they want.
The most common form when used by villains is probably [[Electric Torture]]. When heroes torture their enemies, they usually use [[Enhanced Interrogation Techniques]], because they Always Work but have a different title and are thus Not Torture.
Compare [[Jack Bauer Interrogation Technique]].
{{examples}}
== Anime and Manga ==
* ''[[Vinland Saga]]''. After catching an English spy, Askeladd takes a pair of shears to his fingers. Eventually the guy tells him what they want to know, in a way that leaves them all shitting their pants. The torture victim laughs in their faces as Askeladd cuts off his head.
* From ''[[Darker
{{quote|
* ''[[Pandora Hearts]]'' subverts this in the first five minutes. Though the torture is mundane...the victim promptly gives quick information. Quick, and
== Film ==
* Averted
* In ''[[The Matrix]]'', Smith tortures Morpheus for the codes to Zion's mainframe.
** The fact that they've given him a digital truth serum that is [[Mind Probe|hacking his mind]] does help.
* In ''[[Dirty Harry]]'', San Francisco Police Department Inspector "Dirty" Harry Callahan presses down on the Scorpio killer's badly wounded leg (he was just shot with a .44 revolver) until he tells him where to find a girl he had kidnapped and left to suffocate. Naturally, he finds out where she is, only to discover that she has already died. The killer promptly [[Off on a Technicality|walks away from the law]] by crying "police brutality", much to Harry's disgust.
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*** The Joker even gives the Batman tips on how to beat someone up while Batman is pounding him. Batman begins by slamming Joker's head against the table, which the Joker says is a poor way to start, since it makes the victim too dazed to feel any further injury.
* Subverted in ''Transsiberian.'' Kolzak tortures Abby to find out where her boyfriend Carlos is. She legitimately doesn't know, however. He then tortures her in front of her acquaintances, Roy and Jessie, thinking that seeing Abby in agony will cause one of them to talk. Jessie, who know exactly where Carlos is {{spoiler|dead, by her hand}}, is visibly disturbed during the scene. She breaks down, seems as though she's going to crack, and then lies again. Badly.
* The 2004 movie ''[[The Punisher]].'': The Punisher himself hangs a guy from the ceiling in chains, cooks a steak with a blowtorch behind the guy's back (sound and smell of sizzling meat) while running a popsicle along his back, explaining that burning usually feels like freezing to start. It works.
** The chief benefit of this is the fact that it's a complete psych out. That said, the film never explores how far Frank would actually have gone. By contrast, a later torture scene involving Quintin Glass and Frank's next door neighbor subverts the trope; Glass gets nothing, in spite of removing every piece of the man's extensive body piercings the hard way.
* Slightly ambiguous in ''[[A Clockwork Orange (film)|A Clockwork Orange]]'', but seems to indicate that even if torture did work, would that really justify its use?
* Subverted in ''The Passion of Joan of Arc''. They drag Joan to the torture room but she simply explains to them the logic listed in the description above.
* In the movie ''[[Payback]]'', Mel Gibson's character willingly submits to being tortured just so he could feed his torturers false information. (They wouldn't believe him if he just told them before the torture)
* Assumed in universe in ''[[The Guns of Navarone]]''. When Major Franklin has to be left for the Germans to find he is given false information for the enemy to torture out of him. Fortunately for the Major the Nazis have [[Truth_Serums|scopalomine]].
== Gamebooks ==
* ''[[Lone Wolf]]'' features a rare example of a ''hero'' torturing information out of a villain in Book 18 ''Dawn of the Dragons''. In the beginning of the adventure Lone Wolf has the opportunity to interrogate a man who had been caught plotting to assassinate him. The gaoler offers Lone Wolf his torture tools (including ''hot coals'') but Lone Wolf declines. Lone Wolf then proceeds to either [[Mind Control]] or ''[[Mind Rape]]'' the prisoner into telling him who wanted Lone Wolf dead. It works {{spoiler|but then the prisoner uses the last of his willpower to bite into a trick tooth containing deadly poisonous gas.}}
== Literature ==
* The Mord-Sith are an entire order of [[The Baroness|
** The grimmest part of the whole scenario is that Mord-Sith start out as kind, gentle girls and are systematically [[Break the Cutie|tortured and broken]] until they are [[Being Tortured Makes You Evil|ready, willing, and able]] to do it to others. It's explicitly said that the sweetest girls available are the ones chosen to become Mord-Sith. And part of their training is forcing them to break ''their parents'', one at a time.
* In ''[[The Riftwar Cycle|Flight of the Nighthawks]]'' the protagonists torture an assassin for information about his organization's base. However, they only need him to think about it, as they have a mind reader among the interrogators. It still takes days.
* Invoked, [[Anvilicious
** Both subverted and played straight later in the series. A corrupt UN-Earth Admiral makes it clear that under torture a man will say anything. However, the terrorist chief who has captured him reminds him that this includes the truth. Extra points are awarded when the Legion tricks an Amnesty Interplanetary investigator into taping them brutally interrogating several prisoners with mock hangings and blow torches, then storming into her press conference to reveal that everyone in her tape was actually a Legionary soldier and the whole thing was one big set up.
** At the same time, the said Legion operates a ship where captured Terrorists are subjected to horrific procedures, from dental drilling, to finger breaking, to sex change operations over a period of months to get them to give information. It is mentioned repeatedly that they verify all the information gained with that other prisoners and from intercepted messages. If the captured terrorists are found to be lying their parents are brought in....
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* Played straight and subverted in ''[[His Dark Materials]]''. Mrs. Coulter uses torture twice to get information from witches in ''The Subtle Knife'', but when she's threatened in ''The Amber Spyglass'', she says that she would have thought that they would "know better than to expect truth to come out of torture."
* [[Tom Clancy]]'s ''The Cardinal of the Kremlin'', where the [[Moscow Centre|KGB]] uses sensory deprivation to break a [[The Mole|mole]] in their service, in their efforts to capture the titular agent. Once said agent was captured, the sensory deprivation method wasn't used due to his health, so instead they used other methods that weren't as harmful to physical condition. Ultimately, he did break, though it took a lot longer than the KGB had planned.
** Averted; in that the designer of the 'new technique' muses that the old methods had more to do with satisfying the sadism of the interrogators than with getting accurate information
*** Also played straight in ''Without Remorse'', involving a pressure chamber on an old Navy base used to basically destroy the drug dealer that Clark was questioning.
* Subverted in [[Ben Elton]]'s ''Stark'' since the truth is less believable than the lies.
* In his [[James Bond]] novels, Ian Fleming (who had prior experience in British intelligence) refers now and then to agents being tortured, on the implicit assumption that, indeed,
* Played with in ''Flashman and the Mountain of Light''. After being captured by a general of the Khalsa, Flashman is told that he will be tortured for information, with the rationale being that a man as brave is he will only give up what he knows after he's been driven out of his mind with pain. However, not only does Flashman not have any information, he is also an utter coward, and so he breaks down into a terrified wreck at the mere thought of physical pain. Unfortunately, such is his reputation for heroism that his captor assumes he's putting on an act in order to avoid giving up what he knows, and begins torturing him anyway
* Subverted in ''[[American Gods]]'' - when Shadow is captured and interrogated, he's completely cooperative and truthful, but his captors don't believe him, so the [[Good Cop, Bad Cop|Bad Cop]] continues to beat the tar out of him. Until [[Laser-Guided Karma|Laura shows up]], anyway.
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* Subverted in [[Chester Anderson]]'s [[The Butterfly Kid]]. First, the protagonist is asked by his alien captors "What do you do?", and finds his vocal system, without his own intervention, telling them what he does, starting with a detailed account of his digestive processes. Then he is strapped into the alien torture machine, but their ideas of torture are... alien; and he finds them easy to withstand, with the possible exception of being forced to watch hallucinations of [[Donald Duck]] playing Brahms.
* A running theme in the [[Vince Flynn|Mitch Rapp]] books is that, contrary to the protestations of [[Strawman Political|politically correct liberals]], torture works consistantly and gives reliable information. On the rare occasions there's someone who doesn't break easily, there will be a weaker compatriot around for the interrogator to exploit instead. Not coincidentally, the author has worked on [[24]], below.
== Live Action TV ==
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* Bennet in ''[[Heroes (TV series)|Heroes]]'' tortures information out of a captive with a rather creative and sadistic threat. It works because the victim knew (or at least was convinced) that Bennett would carry out his threat later on if the information proved to be wrong.
** Subverted in Volume 5, when Bennett's love interest Lauren, a CIA agent, says that torture never works. She eventually convinces Bennet to coax rather than torture information out of Carnival member Edgar.
* ''[[Alias (TV series)|Alias]]'': The ''other'' torturin' Jack, the one whose last name is ''Bristow'', is much more selective in his use of torture. (Other characters torture, but for some reason it never
* Psychological torture is used in ''[[Law and Order SVU]]'' by forcing a suspect into a small closet (he had an intense fear of the dark due to childhood abuse) to make him reveal the location of a woman trapped in a locker with a limited supply of oxygen.
* In ''[[Farscape]]'', Rygel once tortured a Charrid to death and managed to extract some valid information from him. But he was more in it for the sadism anyway, since his race was devastated by a Charrid invasion attempt.
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* Subverted very well in ''[[Burn Notice]]'', where the main character has had to extract information several times, but always uses alternative methods (usually messing with the guy's head). As a plus, he usually narrates the scene and gives helpful tips on how to trick information out of people.
** Several times said character also explains why torture ''doesn't'' work. These range from "they'll say anything to make it stop" to my personal favorite
{{quote|
** Notably, Michael once gets better information by ''letting himself be tortured'' than his torturer does.
* Appears a few times on ''[[Rome]]''. Under the Roman legal system, testimony from slaves could only be accepted in court if it was extracted through torture.
* ''[[Lost]]'': The flashbacks of the Ben/Sayid torture episode, ''One Of Them'', saw Sayid successfully torture a former superior officer of his to get the location of US soldiers. He used pliers to great effect it seemed.
** He also prepared to torture more Others in ''The Glass Ballerina'', telling Sun he would capture two of them and kill the rest, Sun asked why he would take two and Sayid replied: "One to make the other cooperate." Badass mofo.
* In [[wikipedia:La Femme Nikita (TV series)|La Femme Nikita]], Section One used torture constantly - and always with effective results. This provided a precursor to Jack Bauer's methods, as ''Nikita'' was produced by the same team that later created ''24''.
* In a ''[[Tek War]]'' episode, the police use a modified lie detector as a torture device. It works on the first criminal but the mastermind gave him unreliable information. The second person it was used on didn't give out information because she feared for her life, and entered a panic attack before needing medical treatment.
* Used on ''[[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]]'' - Buffy's interrogation subjects are usually demons, whose loyalties are extremely weak.
** But averted with Angelus's torture of Giles. He was doing it partly for kicks, but never managed to get the information he wanted. In the end, Drusilla had to step in with her [[Hypnotic Eyes]].
* Played with in an early episode of [[Angel]]. Angel is tortured, and doesn't reveal what the bad guy wants. However, it's revealed afterwards that he was THIS close to do it, but the gang saved him before that point. It is also (possibly) justified, since they hint that the torturer has some sort of [[Living Lie Detector|lie detecting ability]].
* In the ''[[Firefly]]'' episode "War Stories" Wash and Mal are tortured by Niska. Mal continues arguing with Wash over Zoe throughout in order to keep both of them from breaking. Subverted, though, since Niska wasn't really looking for information, just punishment.
* Subverted in [[Jericho]] when [[Genre Savvy]] Hawkins says torture is great for getting answers, but the fear of torture is better for getting the truth. He even lampshades this trope, saying actual torture only works in the movies.
* One episode of ''[[The Avengers (TV series)]]'' twisted this: there was a set-up that pretended to be a training program for British agents, "Test of Human Endurance." They would subject an agent to a certain degree of torture, the agent would hold out, after a while he'd be congratulated on his determination ... and then, in the bar, he'd chatter with fellow agents about the information he'd successfully kept from the torturers. The torture wasn't intended to '''force''' the answers from agents, but to bring the info to the forefront of their minds, so it'd be what they talked about while relaxing. And the bar where they relaxed was bugged. So, in a roundabout way, the torture '''did''' work.
== [[Tabletop Games]] ==▼
* In ''[[GURPS]]'' torture is basically guaranteed to work if you do it long enough, but than again so will any other method of interrogation.▼
* Both played straight and averted in ''[[Dungeons
== Theater ==
* The basic trope is [[Older Than Feudalism]], since in classical legal systems slaves could only testify under torture, and a stock gambit by the accused was to defy the court to torture his slaves. However, it is subverted in [[Aristophanes]] [[The Frogs]], where Dionysus' slave, impersonating Dionysus, tells the underworld guards to torture Dionysus, impersonating the slave. They end up BOTH getting tortured to see which is the real god, and hilariously trying to pretend that it doesn't hurt a bit, no, sir.
* In ''[[Oedipus the King]]'', the shepherd who found the abandoned infant Oedipus and gave him to Polybus is brought to Oedipus refuses to talk, Oedipus orders his guards to twist his arm behind his back until he does. Later, he threatens to have the man killed when he hesitates again. Only then does Oedipus become the last in the play to deduce the [[Awful Truth]] that he indeed did, as prophesied, kill his father and marry his mother.
== Video Games ==
* The "Interrogation" missions in ''[[Assassin's Creed]]'' consist of Altair stalking people into dark alleys and beating them until they give up general information. He's also using more intimidation than actual pain; beating them up is just to subdue them so he can start asking questions, and he doesn't actively torture the victim.
* In the video game adaptation of ''[[Spider-Man]]'', Spidey dangles a gang member over the edge of an apartment building. He talks.
* It's somewhat of a motif that sooner or later your character is going to get caught and have to undergo [[Electric Torture]] for information in the [[Metal Gear Solid]] franchise. To date, none of the [[Badass]] protagonists have given up information in any of the three games. {{spoiler|Even Sokolov who has a family refused to talk}}. You'd think Ocelot would have learned the old "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." adage, but alas.
** Also Volgin is undoubtly the worst interrogator ever. His only method seems to be beating the prisoner to death in under 15 seconds. Ocelot actually applauds Snake for surviving just one session.
*** He's actually even worse at it than that. In Snake's case, he actually managed to ''reverse interrogate'' him. Instead of getting any information from Snake, he actually ''reveals'' the existence and location of the [[MacGuffin|Philosopher's Legacy]] not only to Snake, but {{spoiler|to EVA, which was her mission to get in the first place}}.
*** It's actually more complicated than that, making this surprisingly not an an example of this trope. If you recall, Volgin had Ocelot, EVA, and the Boss watch him torture Snake while he let slip the location of the Philosopher's Legacy. Later you find Volgin has {{spoiler|caught EVA trying to steal the philosopher's legacy and then entrusts the legacy with the Boss. Later still, after retrieving the legacy from the Boss and escaping with EVA, EVA then again steals the legacy from Snake and afterward Ocelot reveals in a phone call the legacy EVA delivered to China was false. Basically, Volgin knew there was a spy in his presence (although he didn't expect everyone in the room to be one) and used the torture as a subterfuge by revealing the location of a decoy microfilm to root out the one who tries to steal it.}}
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* One of the big features of the latest ''[[The Punisher|Punisher]]'' game was the ability to torture any random mooks, either through "standard" means like pressing your gun against their head, or threatening to put them into furnaces or put a freaking ''drill through their head''. Only some of them would actually give you useful information, though (although they all gave you information of some kind).
** There's also two mooks per level who, if you torture, might say something that causes Frank to have a flashback. He'll even comment after killing\sparing them.
{{quote|
"I was only following orders!" Recalls patrol in Vietnam. }}
* Death Knights in ''[[World of Warcraft]]'' have to torture ''lots'' of people to death in one of their starting quests before one of them finally talks... but it's still an example, because as soon as anyone says anything it's the truth. Then it's subverted, because you ''don't believe them'' and [[Cutscene Incompetence|the victim dies from the wounds before it can finish explaining]].
** In the quest line which precedes your entry into The Nexus, you're required by the Kirin Tor to [http://www.wowwiki.com/Quest%3AThe_Art_of_Persuasion torture an imprisoned sorcerer] until he talks. And when he finally does, all the information turns out to be completely accurate.
** Subverted in one quest, in which torturing a quillboar gets him to reveal the name of his leader, but only because [[I'll Never Tell You What I'm Telling You|he's too stupid to avoid unintentionally blurting it out]], and offering him food or tickling him will also get him to give the information.
== [[Web Comics]] ==
* In ''[[Erfworld]]'', Parson's understanding of the enemy plan (after Wanda reports that their prisoner has given it up) matches what we know of Ansom's actual plans. However, it's an open question how much this owes to torture and how much to [[More Than Mind Control|other psychological pressures]] and ''regular'' mind control, using magic.
▲* In ''[[Erfworld]]'', Parson's understanding of the enemy plan (after Wanda reports that their prisoner has given it up) matches what we know of Ansom's actual plans. However, it's an open question how much this owes to torture and how much to [[More Than Mind Control|other psychological pressures]] and ''regular'' mind control, using magic.
* In [[Girl Genius]], Othar Tryggvassen (Gentleman Adventurer!) assumes this is what Baron Wulfenbach intends, but the Baron is simply interested in taking him apart to see what makes [[Mad Scientist|the spark]] tick. "[[Large Ham|No matter what you do to me, I'll never talk!]]" "[[Deadpan Snarker|Ah, if only that were so.]]"
* ''[[Last Res0rt]]'' subverts it with Daisy Archanis and her leaked confession that {{spoiler|she's actually the Galaxy Girl Scout Arael who set off a huge feud}}, which was apparently extracted using torture... and ''everyone knows it'', including Daisy's supporters, arguing that because she was tortured for the information, it MUST be bogus.
** Veled admits later that she didn't need to torture Daisy for the
* Called out in "Faans!" where Rumy yells at her berserk subordinate that "Contrary to what you see on '24,' pain is not a Lasso of Truth."
▲== [[Tabletop Games]] ==
▲* In [[GURPS]] torture is basically guaranteed to work if you do it long enough, but than again so will any other method of interrogation.
▲* Both played straight and averted in ''[[Dungeons and Dragons|The Book of Vile Darkness]]''. Torture makes it easier for torturers to Intimidate their victims, but they also take penalties to Sense Motive checks as most believe wholeheartedly in the reliability of knowledge gained from torture.
== Web Original ==
* The ''[[Web Original]]\[[Hitherby Dragons]]'' story "[http://imago.hitherby.com/?p=668 An Oracle For NP]" [[Deconstruction|deconstructs]] this. It starts with a torturing that reveals the location of a bomb from someone who has ''no way of knowing where it was from or how''. As soon as this possibility is found, they begin torturing individuals to further science in any way possible.
{{reflist}}
[[Category:A Tortured Index]]
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