What Measure Is a Non-Badass?: Difference between revisions

 

== [[Anime]] and [[Manga]] ==

* [[Unlucky Everydude|Ganta]] from ''[[Deadman Wonderland]]'' is often lamented to be a useless, cowardly pansy, with many fans much preferring [[Ensemble Darkhorse|Crow]] (who is often declared the most [[Badass]] character in that series). They seem to be ignoring the fact that Ganta is only 14 (compared to Crow, who is obviously much older than him) and was just a normal student who never really got into fights, and who is also ''new'' to Deadman Wonderland.

* Yukki from ''[[Mirai Nikki]]'', in that he is a young boy who was forced into a very violent world. He spends the first 20-30 chapters crying and running away. Then he [[Break the Cutie|gets broken]] and [[Took a Level In Badass|takes a Level in Badass]].

* Canada from ''[[Axis Powers Hetalia]]''. Partly as a case of [[Misplaced Nationalism]], many Western fans have a tendency to turn him into a [[Memetic Badass]] and [[Deadpan Snarker]] instead of the fairly nice, unassertive guy he is in canon.

** Poland's [[Keet]] behavior and penchant for ponies and skirts makes him ''hated'' in some circles. Him being one of the few nations who will fearlessly stand up to [[Psychopathic Manchild|Russia]] will be conveniently ignored by them.

** In an odd case of this, fans of this kind don't hate Greece for being sleepy and laidback; they just want him to be with Turkey all the time because Turkey is the [[Berserk Button|only thing]] that causes him to lose his calm, easygoing nature and hence makes him a [[Hot-Blooded]] [[Tsundere]] who's "stronger" and "cooler" than the calm [[Nice Guy]] he is with <s>Japan</s> everyone who's not Turkey. Some of these fans even seem to believe that Greece [[The Philosopher|waxing philosophical]], [[Kindhearted Cat Lover|taking care of numerous cats]], and [[Chivalrous Pervert|being affectionate and respectful toward Japan]] makes him a "[[Flat Character|personality-devoid]] [[Shallow Love Interest]]" because apparently he can't be a strong or complex character if he isn't constantly angry, fight-happy, short-tempered, or otherwise "manly" like he is with Turkey.

** Probably due more to [[Replacement Scrappy]] Syndrome, for those who actually dislike Simon anyways. In terms of badasstry, Simon has done WAY more than Kamina has if only for the fact that he has much more screen time. May also have to do with Kamina's more moronic and over-the-top personality (note that moronic is not diminutive since fans love the fact that he acts like a moron).

** Additionally, Rossiu is considered [[The Scrappy]] by a large number of fans because he's the [[Only Sane Man]] and more subdued and cynical than the rest of the cast.

* This trope is probably one reason why Fuu from ''[[Samurai Champloo]]'' gets a lot of hate, having no fighting prowess and being [[The Heart]] of her group. There's some [[Misaimed Fandom]] in this opinion, in that while her co-protagonists, Jin and Mugen, are certainly badass, it's quite clear that they really lack social/life skills (Jin starts out stoic to the point of apathy and isn't good at anything except kendo; Mugen is a hotheaded [[Sociopathic Hero]] who doesn't plan ahead at all), and probably wouldn't have developed as people had Fuu not roped them into serving as her bodyguards.

** Fuu does start out rather spoiled, dragging along the two bodyguards without any planning. It's not so much that she influences the other protagonists (though one would argue that she's the primary instigator); they all contribute to their own developments. At a certain point, none of them want to be separated and learn their own personal lessons.

* Happens in the ''[[One Piece]]'' fandom too. If they're not badass, THEY SUCK AND ARE ANNOYING AND WEAK, no questions asked. [[Fan Dumb|Apparently, to many fans it matters not if a character is intelligent, has a wonderful heart, or has a strong moral compass.]] And never mind that many of the badasses on this show never would have gotten anywhere or would be dead by now if not for the 'weak' characters.

** Shinji was the audience stand-in with some wish-fulfillment thrown in. He was expected to grow into a badass, as with other shounen leads. When he didn't meet audience expectations, some audience members saw it as [[Take That|an attack]] [[This Loser Is You|against them]]. This would also explain why there are so many fix-fics where Shinji turns into what's expected from a shounen lead. One critic even pointed out that if Shinji had been female, Shinji would be far more popular and sympathetic (with Japanese audiences at least).

*** It also may explain why female EVA fans sometimes tend to be more sympathetic to Shinji's plight than male fans. [[Ho Yay|That, and there's Kaworu...]]

** Also, Sakura in the VN. She is a [[Distressed Damsel]] in her route she didn't kick ass like Saber/Rin, but that doesn't mean it's her fucking fault that she's horrifyingly abused by the Matou family, {{spoiler|as well as raped constantly by her stepbrother Shinji}}. And yet the stupid "feminist" fans keep slutshaming and bashing her, saying it's her own fault that she's an abuse {{spoiler|and rape}} victim!

** And in some circles, '''very bad things''' have been said about {{spoiler|Sayaka and Mami}} after the first's {{spoiler|[[Freak-Out]] and transformation into a Witch}} and the second {{spoiler|going mad after learning the [[Awful Truth]] in the third timeline.}}

** This trope also sums up the attitude to non-dueling main characters who are sometimes seen as useless or unneccessary in a world where [[Duels Decide Everything]].

* One of the reasons why many fans like Mikoto more than main heroine Index in [[To Aru Majutsu no Index]]. Sure, their difference in personality has somethng to do with it but the fact that Index is a more passive and usually non-combat character while Mikoto is an [[Action Girl]] definitely had impact.

** Thing is, Index can be [[Badass Adorable]] when she wants to. People just ignore that.

* Out of the fans of [[Fairy Tail]] who prefer Erza over Lucy, a good portion of them were heavily influence by this.

* Kaoru of ''[[Rurouni Kenshin]]'' is the head of her own dojo and is [[Informed Attribute|ostensibly]] a national-level fencing champion. But hanging around Kenshin and Sanosuke and the caliber of villains they fight means she is constantly outclassed.

* Never mind that White of ''[[Pokémon Special]]'' has her own dreams (which basically boils down to making people happy nationwide with the added bonus of boosting the economy), knows what she has to do to achieve them, and can ''do'' it as well (which involves running her own ''business'', an impressive feat for a girl in her [[Improbable Age|mid-teens]]); she gets constantly bashed for not knowing how to battle right off the bat. Fans seem to ignore that [[Super Empowering|Yellow]] and [[Lady of War|Platinum]] initially didn't know how to battle in their respective arcs.

 

== [[Comic Books]] ==

** You should note that even Rorschach held this view for a period of time. And considering his popularity with readers, his view of Nite Owl II probably contributed to the way a lot of fans saw him. Rather ironic considering how Moore intended the ''[[Misaimed Fandom|exact opposite]]'' effect.

* Speaking of which, Scott/Cyclops himself seems to fall into this trope. Holds his own against Wolverine in hand-to-hand combat, takes out the entire team when they're brainwashed and he's injured, beats up six men at once with his eyes shut, pulls off impossible trick shots, ''earns'' the nickname Fearless Leader... and a lot of ''[[X-Men]]'' fans still think of him as a pussy, because he dares to not get along with [[Anti-Sue|Wolverine]] (which, [[Fridge Logic|when you think about it]], is pretty badass in its own little way).

** Later years come with an inversion - people don't like him because he takes [[Took a Level In Badass|several levels in badass]] one after another since [[Joss Whedon]]'s ''Astonishing X-Men'', that it's just ridiculous - fans think that his balls took control over him and they are leading the X-men right now.

** Overall, "niceness" tends to be an extremely underrated trait among a vocal portion of the fanbase who complain whenever a strategic player is beaten by a less strategic but more likeable one and call these "nicey nice" winners "undeserving" winners who won only because they were facing bitter juries who didn't appreciate the strategy of their opponents. This not only ignores that more often than not, these so-called "strategic" players had horrible jury performances (Sugar from ''Gabon'', Twila from ''Vanuatu,'' Russell from ''Samoa'' and ''Heroes vs. Villains'', Sash from ''Nicaragua'') compared to the strategic winners who knew how to read and work the jury (Chris from ''Vanuatu'', Todd from ''China'', Parvati herself from ''Micronesia'') or bring along opponents even more disliked than them (Brian from ''Thailand'', Rob from ''Redemption Island,'' Danni from ''Guatemala''), but also that niceness ''has'' proven to be a valuable asset multiple times like how Bob's fatherliness endeared him to Sugar and Fabio's likability compared to his opponents was most likely the major reason for [[Na Onka]] voting for him in the end in spite of having regularly made fun of him in earlier episodes.

* Dr. Keller suffered from this a bit in ''[[Stargate Atlantis]]''. While the other doctors in the show are also pretty non-action-oriented, Keller's fragility, especially when contrasted with Teyla's hardy survival instincts in the episode "Missing", do make her a boring character for some. To be fair, she isn't a soldier, but Rodney's been pretty badass since his big sacrifice in the second episode, so Keller does look pretty weak by comparison.

** However, this is a ''huge'' simplification of each woman's characterization and [[Character Arc]]: namely that Morgana's [[Sliding Down the Slippery Slope|fall into evil]] was marked by her [[It's All About Me]] attitude in which she ranks her own grievances and pain against the needs of others and begins a [[Roaring Rampage of Revenge]] against not just Uther, but ''everyone'', including innocent people. In contrast, Guinevere (who is also deeply wronged by Uther when he has her innocent father executed) rises above her inner turmoil and explicitly refuses wallow in hate. Many fans seem to have ''completely'' missed the juxtapositioning of Guinevere's declaration that she would never seek vengeance against Uther because: "that would make me just like him" with the recent observations by ''several'' characters that Morgana is now no different from Uther. It also fails to take into account the fact that Morgana is quite often a [[Faux Action Girl]], with plans that are ill-thought out and fail ''constantly'', whereas Guinevere's attempts at proactivity have a far higher success rate (retrieving the morteus flower from the dungeon, arguing on behalf of the women in Ealdor, escaping Helios's men by submerging herself in the river). Though Guinevere has played the [[Distressed Damsel]] a few times, Morgana has been in similar situations just as often ([[Distressed Dude|as have all the male characters]]) and is extremely [[Weak-Willed]] given the consistency [[Hypnotize the Princess|with which she is placed under enchantments]]. Guinevere, on the other hand, has the ''unprecedented'' move of removing an object of enchantment from her body of her own free will (and thus breaking the spell she was under).

*** It's a classic example of style over substance - in this case, Guinevere's decency, patience and kind heart is no match for Morgana's glamourous life-style. As [http://www.racialicious.com/2011/10/18/fandom-and-its-hatred-of-black-women-characters/ this] article puts it:

*** However, if you take into account the final weapons, it may have some level of credibility since the other two lords are more than capable of using their strongest weapons (Sol Katti is not very hard to equip and Armads doesn't hurt Hector's speed too much considering his bulk) but the Durandal pretty much sets Eliwood back a long way because it lowers his number of attacks to 1 vs NORMAL enemies and hinders his ability to evade.

** Roy and Eliwood are pretty much the same pre-promotion and Roy is a complete beast and better than his father post-upgrade. Of course, YMMV and it also depends on whether you got lucky with the random number generator level system.

** The aforementioned Eirika is often put under the microscope, nitpicked and/or downright bashed for being a sensitive Nice Girl aside of [[The Messiah]] and the [[Action Girl]], with some even openly ''denying that both she and Ephraim are the protagonists of the game''... saying Ephraim is the only lead. WTF.

** Also an example of [[Misaimed Fandom]]. Metal Gear Solid 2 revolved around the idea of Raiden rejecting puppetry and not being pigeon-holed into the role of Solid Snake in favor of finding his own identity. He kinda-sorta succeeded, and he had a reasonably hopeful ending. Come Metal Gear Solid 4, and Raiden has [[Shaggy Dog Story|been forced into the role of Cyborg Ninja]]. Fanboys think this is awesome, when in the context of the series it is decidedly not.

* The title character of the ''[[Mega Man X]]'' series gets this a lot. His actual viewpoint (except for in the seventh game) is that he'd rather not fight, but does because he feels he has to. But because he wishes he didn't have to go to war, he's usually portrayed as a pansy and/or gay (though the latter has more to do with the [[Ho Yay]] between him and Zero). Zero, by contrast, is a [[Badass]] killbot with a laser sword, who enjoys [[Kicking Ass and Taking Names]], and is thus ''much'' more popular.

* Carl Johnson from ''[[Grand Theft Auto San Andreas]]''; his actual feats are comparable to those of Tommy Vercetti and Niko Bellic, but he also has a tendency to show compassion to those who he wronged. Because, you know, actually ''considering'' the ramifications of his actions every once in a while makes him a total pussy.

* ''[[Touhou]]'' has Rinnosuke, the only named humanoid male character in the entirely of Gensoukyou that isn't missing or dead who happens to completely lack any combat ability. If he isn't ignored entirely in favour of more badass characters, the fandom almost constantly portrays him as a [[Memetic Badass]] (known as MANnosuke) who all of Gensoukyou fears and/or a [[Memetic Sex God]] who is the constant target of everyone's affections (though granted, it is never certain whether ''Touhou'' fandom is joking or not). Furthering the trope, this may be linked to how Rinnosuke is the oldest and closest friend of Marisa (regularly considered the manliest character in the series), and a badass character having a non-badass friend is ''clearly'' blasphemy.

** This is likely a side effect of competitive circles, who dislike moves and strategies that rely on luck calculations such as chance of evasion and duration of status effects. After all, one of their goals is for any two matches in which the players perform the same actions to have the same outcome, and thus conclusively prove which player is more skilled and not more lucky.

** Also from the ''[[Pokémon Black and White]]'' fandom are people who view {{spoiler|N Harmonia}} as "weak and stupid" because he doesn't go around doing a ton of evil stuff like the other main-series antagonists before him did (this despite the fact that he ''does'' manage to use a Legendary Pokemon far more effectively than the others, and he still controls the story to a greater extent than any villain before him except [[Pokémon Diamond and Pearl|Cyrus]]).

* In ''[[Dynasty Warriors]],'' one of the biggest reasons Guan Suo gets backlash from fans is solely for his [[Bishounen|character design]] (Or more specifically, having flower in his hair). Note that the majority of the backlash comes from [[Americans Hate Tingle|fans from the west]], who only seem to tolerate characters with a bishounen appearance if their actions or relevance screams badassery. But since he fits neither <ref>His very addition was based on his popularity base on Chinese folklore rather than [[Romance of the Three Kingdoms]].</ref>, he is seen as a Scrappy in their eyes.

 

 

== Webcomics ==

** Which leads to a horrible pun of the {{spoiler|''wheelchair bound''}} Tavros not being able to ''stand up'' to Vriska.