Bleach/Headscratchers/Hollows: Difference between revisions

** Maybe the other causes are assigned to former Espada. Nel's habit of vomiting over anyone and everyone, along with her ability to make a LOT of snot, could count for "Disease" in a very cracky way...

** In the same way, I could see Dondorini being pride, which is definitely a cause of death among the human race.

*** Evidently if there was an Espada of Stupidity, his reign wouldn't have been very long.

*** "Stupidity" is a very broad term. To be honest, most of the causes/aspects of death listed could easily fit into stupidity. As in, things like greed, anger, intoxication, perhaps madness could easily be described as forms of stupidity.

** Kubo made the espadas first and ''then'' came up with the aspects of death thing, which in my opinion work out better since he didn't had to try so hard to make the characters fall into one of the predetermined categories. If he decided to put Disease and Hunger before he come up with the characters he would had to try and make them seem like they fill the quota of Disease and Hunger.

* Reading WMG has caused something to bug me. If Vizard have inner hollows, why don't Arrancar have inner Shinigami?

* Alright, so Barragan has that "Old Age" power right? And when he released, it was shown that all he had to do was be around something and it would break down and "rot" away (Like when he was walking on that roof and it crumbled). So why doesn't he just Sonido over to the other 3 pillars and make them rot? Yamamoto and everyone else who isn't injured or fighting the Espada and their Fraccion could come in and try to stop him, but they'd start to rot just from being around him, and then there's the fact that he was so fast that Soi Fon of all people couldn't follow him, and she's one of the fastest captains. And even if they do somehow stop him, I don't think they could counteract the rotting fast enough because it seems to act very quickly like with the buildings Barragan was walking on or with Soi Fon's arm.

** Barragan is very arrogant (it's even the name of his Zanpakuto). He probably wants to put Soi Fon in her place before he does anything else.

* During Halibel's release, it looks like all her clothes disappear. If she goes back to her normal form, do they come back?

** Grimmjow's came back, so probably.

*** It is.

*** [[Overly Long Gag|Thirded.]]

** Tite forgot about them like so many others.

** Volume 39 shows tthrough the mini-comics Kubo puts in the blank page corners that Nel has recently woke up, and thinks she's having a nightmare because Zaraki is there.

* How does Zommari represent intoxication? All the others fit pretty well, but intoxication seems like an odd choice for him.

** He fits because he has no emotional restraint whatsoever, like a person intoxicated. He is, effectively, permanently drunk. Hence his... ''odd'' behavior.

** Just one question though... if each Espada is an embodiment of death, then how do the privaron Espada, like Nel or Cirucci fit in? And also, at one point, Luppi was Grimmjow's replacement for a short period. At that time, all the other Espada were the same as they are now. Somebody please explain to me how Luppi would be the embodiment of destruction...

*** Espadas represent "the ten ways people die", right? So Privarion Espada Dordonii could have represented "Insisting your opponent unleashes his full strength against you", which is certianly a way to die ''really, really quickly''. As for Luppi... "Being Grimmjow's replacement"?

*** My personal theory is that Barragán is just making crap up. He's incredibly arrogant, and could have easily made up the whole "aspects of death" thing just because it meant he got to give a cool sounding speech.

** At this point, I'm still laughing too hard about Zommari being the aspect of intoxication to be really bugged by the whole thing. [[Narm|Sooooo much makes sense now...]]

** While I agree with you, [[Sure Why Not|I don't think Kubo actually put that much thought into the whole "Aspect of Death" thing.]] It kinda seems too...complex for him to think up of something as multi-layered as that and hide it under something simple.

*** In reality, Barragan was just being arrogant. Not everybody dies of old age, but everyone surely are born and die alone. Even twins that happen to die in a nuke, as they surely had different life experiences and would never perfectly understand each other. Or could be that Kubo is using a plot device that would be used in Zombie Powder, if he didn't give up due to emotional restrain. Yeah.

*** Um, hello? It's a METAPHOR. "You're born alone, and you sure as hell die alone" is a favorite saying of Dr. Cox from Scrubs. It basically means, obviously, you come into the world not knowing anyone or anything and having no real bond with anyone. Since, y'know, you were JUST BORN and don't realize the concepts of family and friendship? Sheesh...

*** It is stated that Vasto Lordes are human sized in their ''hollow'' form and that they have the highest probability of looking human when becoming arrancar. Besides we know that Grimmjow was an adjuchas (which means that Espada 7 and 8 probably were as well) and that Aaroniero was the last gillian. Also, Nnoitra was an Espada before Aizen obtained the Hogyoku and nothing about him seemed to suggest that he is a Vasto Lorde, so he was probably an adjuchas as well. It's still possible that Espada 1-4 are/were Vasto Lorde, however.

** They are it's confirmed from the Anime they were.

*** And Aaroniero claimed to have been a Gilean.

** It wasn't an [[Ass Pull]]; it was foreshaddowed completely. Most people just didn't notice, but when Nel met Ichigo, she mentioned that the Espadas all had single-digit numbers when she was contrasting herself with the Numeros, who serve the Espada. [[Captain Obvious|10 isn't a single digit number.]] Nel casually mentioned the fact that there was no Espada #10, and nobody noticed!

* Aizen knows precisely where the intruders are, and has an entire army of arrancer at his command, ten members of which are able to give the protagonists a run for their money, why is he holding back?

** Well, he's currently down by 5 Espada and he really can't spare the others because he needs them for his invasion of Karakura Town. He also knows that any arrancar below Espada-level wouldn't stand a chance against the protagonists, so it would be a waste to send in troops when they could be used elsewhere.

*** Aizen specifically ordered the Espada to leave them alone. Everyone going out to fight are technically disobeying orders.

* Why is Aizen evil? The afterlife sucks and he's trying set up a [[Utopia]] last I checked...

*** They aren't exactly what you call your average hollows though, considering their spoilerific past.

*** One might argue that Arrancar are actually good guys. After all, instead of eating good spirits they eat other hollows.

*** Do you mean menos in morphing stage? Because arrancar eat what they want to eat - remember Yami eating the souls of living humans... And I never see them to eat hollows, it's what gilian morphing stage and adjuchas do, not arrancar generally.

* Why do all the Hollows and Arrancar use Spanish so much? Going by Chad's arms, are Hispanic people more naturally predisposed to being consumed by loneliness postmortem, or something?

** Maybe the first Hollows were Mexican or something.

*** Spanish has been spoken in Spain since shortly after the fall of the Roman Empire. That's why the language is called Spanish and not Mexican.

** Maybe Hollows were speaking it first, and the Spanish just copied them. Or maybe they just thought it was a cool language and decided to start speaking it.

*** It's important to note that Aizen's First Release ability is Illusion. I'd be perfectly willing to bet that nobody has Ever fought Aizen, seen him in years, or spoken with him Ever. I've been working on the assumption that his Perfect Illusion thingy simply makes you (and everyone else) Believe he stopped you in one hit, made the real him (or army of mooks, or whatever) invisible and that's what injured you. After all, if you're in a perfect illusion, how the hell do you ever know what's happenning AT All?

*** Actually, since one of the requirements for falling under his illusion is seeing the moment he releases his Shikai, Ichigo's fight with his was very real. It becomes a plot point even... Unohana states that as the only captain-level fighter who hasn't seen the Shikai, he's the only one who ''can'' reasonably expect to land a hit on Aizen.

*** By that point Aizen was getting a serious power-up via Hōgyoku.

* Why didn't Yammy just, I dunno, ''fly''?

** Pretty sure most Arrancar are made from adjuchas, which are only formed when one soul gains dominance over the others in a gillian, so both of them could have been brothers in life and simply worked their way up separately.

** It could be possible that they became Arrancar at the same time and Aizen referred to them as brothers. If he did, the title could have stuck with them.

** If this troper remembers correctly, Aizen referred to ALL Arrancar as being brothers.

* I'm a little unsure about Aizen and his hollow army. Are all the current Espada made by him or what? How long has he been established in Heuco Mundo? Are the arrancar numbers designated by him or was there a system in place before he was around? IIRC it is stated that the Privaron were kicked out when Aizen started making his own arrancar (or something like that) but didn't he need the magic sphere thing to do that which he only got after Rukia's execution. Also, if he wanted hollow powers, why didn't he just Hollowify himself since he knows it works (Shinji and the others).

* Loly and Menoly. They got mauled almost to death by Grimmjow for attacking Orihime and despite being injured she '''saved their lives!!!'''' Then what do they do? Attack her again, showing no gratitude for Orihime not letting them die (as she would have been perfectly justified in doing), and do it in front of a member of her [[True Companions|nakama]] and their superior who has show some interest in the girl, both of whom could crush them like bugs without much effort. Seriously, that the hell?!

** Um, Hollow? No hearts, despite every attempt to say otherwise?

** They're mental psychos. Probably best not to read too much into it.

** The reason they're given is that they are explicitly terrified of Orihime's power. When they initially attack her, it's because they're jealous of the preferential treatment that Aizen gives her. However, Grimmjow doesn't just maul them, he kills them. Orihime literally undoes that with her "Phenomena Rejection" ability. To creatures who are born from fear and death, the notion that someone has the power to simply say "No" and make death literally not happen and then being on the receiving end of that power would be a worldview shattering experience. My suspicion is that Tite is using their irrational behavior to slip in additional hints on just how powerful Orihime really is.

** Well, I seriously doubt they bothered to heal Grimmjow, so he's probably still bleeding in a ditch somewhere. As for Nel, who knows? She was pretty well tapped out, so they probably left her with her buddies/Fraccion to recover while they assaulted Las Noches. Still, if that's the case, they could have at least ''mentioned'' it. Even like, one or two lines of dialogue saying 'Nel is at X, doing Y' would have been nice.

** Nemu tossed Dondochakka and Pesche off into the distance, but they could come back at some point. Unfortunately, if they try a [[Big Damn Heroes]] moment against Yammy, it will probably be even less effective than the one they did against Szyael.

** He was outside when he released it.

*** Maybe it indicates that Yammy's full of crap, and his release only increases his power to the same class as the top four while not necessarily reaching the same level as the top four when they're ''released''?

** I get the feeling that Aizen's rule forbidding the Espada of four and above from releasing is more for aesthetic purposes than anything else. After all, Las Noches is HUGE! Imagine how long it took to set that place up. And just remember the damage from when Grimmjaw, a measly six released his zanpakto. Almost every structure in the vicinity during his fight with Ichigo went to pieces. If someone was capable of fighting at a level that would force the highest ranked Espada to released, then the resulting collateral would probably be capable of wrecking the entire place. The reason Las Noches isn't wrecked yet, even though Yammy released is because he hasn't started using that power yet. Once that happens, the place will probably start coming apart pretty fast.

* None of them care about the rules. Remember that scene where Aizen blatantly told them to IGNORE THE INTRUDERS? Whoops.

** Not all of them ignored the order, which was technically to just remain in their quarters, as only Nnoitra, Ulquiorra and Zommari went out (Aaroniero met with Rukia near his quarters, and Szyael opened a trapdoor to drop Renji into his). This had the useful plot-related function of preventing the higher-ranked Espadas from hunting down and massacring Ichigo and his friends.

** At least she hasn't been named in the collected volumes yet. It'd be a bother if it had to change halfway through.

** Yet nobody ranted on Ulquiorra's last name actually being ''Cifer''. Power of the Boobs people, Power of the Boobs...

*** I liked "Schiffer" better (as well as Halibel, Coolhorn and Stark with one R), but I'm not enraged over it.

*** Cifer, Lucifer, LUCIFER. I see what he did there.

* Back when Aizen first escapes from Soul Society, a bunch of Gillian rip through the sky to rescue him. However, Hisagi states that there is "something else," that appears to manifest in the form of what looks like (to me) a closed eyelid that appears behind the Gillian. This is never mentioned or referenced again and everyone seems to have overlooked it. But just what was that thing. It doesn't seem likely that it was a reference to the higher classes of Menos since they get progressively smaller as they evolve, and it obviously isn't a reference to the Arrancar. So WTF is that thing? Note, this is based upon the (hopeful) premise that Tite hasn't completely forgotten about it altogether.

** That thing has been the source of a lot of speculation. But the fact remains that no one really knows what it is and unless it turns out to be Aizen's trump card either in Karakura Town or any future battles, we're probably never going to find out.

** That was before Kubo came up with the "they get smaller as they get more powerful" bit. Maybe he originally planned for them to get larger as they went on, but changed it later.

** Possibly being addressed. {{spoiler|In the latest chapter Wonderweiss shows up with a massive black creature with only one eye and Menos masks for fingernails. Looks like Kubo didn't forget.}}

*** Stop giving him ideas!

** The thing is, though, the Superchunky (official name) just vanished again, with no further explanation as to what the hell it is. I mean, Mashiro kicked it or something, and then it either died or ran away, which made This Troper wonder why the Superchunky even bothered turning up.

* Watching the recent Bleach episode with Allon made me realize something. How do Apache, Mila Rose, and Sun-Sun get their arms back after they create Allon? They said that Allon never listens to them, so that confirms that they've done this before. And it's not like they keep their arms so that they can get them sown back on like with Yammy, or have someone like Orihime to give them back their arm like with Grimmjow. You could say that Orihime did it for them offscreen when other things were happening, but I seriously doubt that she did ''every'' time, or that she was always there to heal them.

** Perhaps when they dismiss Allon he turns back into their arms, which reattach themselves.

** Maybe they can force Allon to 'disband' back into their arms whether it wants to or not? It wouldn't be much use as a weapon if they didn't have some method of shutting it down if it ever went berserk. Er... more berserk than usual, I mean.

** Their zanpakuto release heals any damage they've taken up to that point (as evidenced in their battle against Rangiku and Hinamori).

** Friends with Grimmjow?

*** The 'I saw a video' thing really doesn't fly as far as I'm concerned - who made the video, given that the only method of video-recon we've seen so far is Ulquiorra's eye-thing? And if the video was informative enough that Dordonii could work out that Ichigo becomes partly Hollow when he uses it, surely Ulquiorra could too. (Sudden thought: Unless everyone received the video and Ulquiorra was just too uninterested to watch it, which would fit.)

* How long has Aizen been in control of Las Noches. Nnoitra tells Neliel that it's been years since she left (by contrast, it's been two months or so since Aizen defected), which raises the question of when Aizen started forming his army, how he did so without the Hogyoku, how many Arrancars he made that way and how he kept it secret from Soul Society.

 

* Why did Luppi look so human in his released form when he was only the 6th Espada? He's nearly as human as Harribel, the 3rd Espada and seemingly more human than Nnoitra. All that was inhuman about him was his armor and helmet, which his tentacles were connected to.

** Somewhere on a fan site, I heard that non-Espada typically have white add-ons to their body (Luppi's carapace, tentacles and armor), as opposed to transforming completely (Zommari gets the pumpkin-like lower body and gets eyes all over his body, Nnoitra gets six arms). Arguably, the opposite is true; the Espadas transform ''more drastically'' than the non-Espadas do.

** There's not that solid a pattern to it, and some of the above is pretty debateable anyway.

* Do the Espada's numbers reflect their IQ or something? First there was {{spoiler|Arroniero}}, great set of abilities, who died of being [[Too Dumb to Live|really, really thick.]] Then there was {{spoiler|Zonmari}}, also a great set of abilities, who died of being really, really thick. Now there's apparently {{spoiler|Barragan}}, who appears to have died of being really, really thick. What's with all the Death by Stupidity, seriously?

** This, so freaking much. Grimmjow also lost from being "really, really thick." Fist time he fought Ichigo - won with very little effort. Second time he fought Ichigo - Ichigo had his Vaizard mask and Grimmjow was missing an arm. He still kicked Ichigos ass so hard, both Rukia and [[Deus Ex Machina|Shinji]] had to pull a [[Big Damn Heroes]] moment. Then we get to their final fight in Hueco Mundo. Ichigo may have learned how to keep his mask on longer, but he was fighting Grimmjow, the guy who kicked his ass with minimum effort, in his released form. Ichigo should have been a goner, right? Well, he figured out Grimmjow's weakness, which is a direct attack. Grimmjow's proficient in sonido, yet it never occured to him to just sonido out of the way of Ichigo's Getsuga Tenshou or Shinji's Cero. And during their final fight, Grimmjow just stood there like a moron and let Ichigo get him. Then he had the gall to complain about losing. Long story short: It's [[Plot Induced Stupidity]] on the villains' part.

* Is Barragan a Vasto Lorde class Hollow, then? Judging from chapter 371, his release form and original Hollow form are pretty much identical, and before he became an arrancar he appeared to be the most powerful Hollow around. Of course, at this point, it seems as though the Hollow classes have kinda been forgotten about entirely...

** I think that he was just a very powerful Adjuchas class Hollow. I think the only Vasto Lordes are Wonderweiss, and maybe Starrk, but that is a big maybe.

** It's possible that he's Vasto Lorde; Grimmjow, an Adjuchas, looked like a white panther while he was a hollow and became more humanoid as an arrancar. Then again, Starrk can't remember what he used to look like, or whether he more resembled Lilynette or Starrk.

*** It would appear that they might not be Vasto Lorde after all. Based on chapter 375, it would seem that {{spoiler|Starrk is a naturally-occuring Arrancar: when Aizen met him, his mask had already been removed and Lilinette was with him (he states in 361 that she was created when he became an Arrancar).}} Barragan could have been {{spoiler|a more imperfect natural arrancar, a little bit human but not much, who was subsequently improved by Aizen. The top three could basically have been adjuchas bordering on Vasto-Lorde with some natural-Arrancar thrown in extra.}} Besides which, the top three Espada being Vasto-Lorde doesn't make much sense story-wise; Vasto-Lordes are touted as being stronger than Captains to begin with, and Shinigamification ramps up a hollow's power something chronic. Vasto-Lorde Arrancar should be godlike, so it really would be senselessly anticlimactic for Kubo to go "Oh yeah, those three dead Espada were actually the most powerful entities it's possible to have in the Bleachverse so far." Then again, considering what happened to Superchunky...

* If Stark is the Arrancar {{spoiler|personification of 'loneliness'}}...why does one of his powers involve {{spoiler|summoning a horde of wolves?!}}

** I think it is simple; as per his status, he created Lilynette to keep him company, and the wolves have a similar meaning, and as a means to overwhelm opponents (Love and Rose are probably going to be ripped apart next chapter).

** Apparently. I think that Kubo is starting to realize that it's really been too freaking long and FKK is suffering from [[Arc Fatigue]], so he wants to end it quickly.

*** I was somewhat surprised when Kubo skipped Harribel after Barragan and went to Starrk. While the order of Espadas being defeated doesn't correspond to their power (9, 6, 7, 8, 5, 4, 2, 1, 3), I was hoping the battle against Harribel would conclude before the battle against Starrk did and I was hoping the two would go on for a little longer and show more of the Espadas' abilities (Harribel could have some nice water-based moves and Starrk could use Gran Rey Ceros or some other special Cero attack).

 

 

** And he even only used it once in that fight. Ulquiorra had Cero Oscuras, so it's a bit strange that he didn't use Gran Rey Cero.

 

* If Barragan's ''Respira'' ability can decay someone's body to the point where all that's left is bone, then how come he was defeated by it when he's already nothing but bone? He shouldn't have any need for that barrier that protects him from his own power. And on the body parts of Soifon and Hachi that he disintegrated, the bone was left intact and wasn't rotting away like everything else. And before someone says it, the only way we know that the Espada's body are different from the Shinigami's body is the fact that the Espada have no heart (Which already makes no sense when you wonder why and how a spirit can have organs in the first place).

*** The bone wasn't rotting away. In [http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/3465/hachihand.png these] [http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/9725/hachihand2.png two] pictures, you can see that it's the skin, meat and clothes surrounding the bones in his hand that were rotting away.

*** It's more than likely that it could have just fallen to the ground, seeing how they were fighting in the sky. Or it might be the fact that Kubo hasn't been paying attention to detail lately, seeing how Wonderweiss skewered Ukitake with his [http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/4089/wonderweissj.png left hand], but retracted a bloody [http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/7391/wonderweiss2.png right hand] in chapter 364, or that Shinji had blood on the [http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/8233/shinjie.png left side] of his face from Tousen cutting him in chapter 367, to having [http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4272/shinji2.png no blood or blood stains] on the left side of his face whatsoever in chapter 375, to having the blood [http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8921/shinji3.png reappear again] on the left side of his face in chapter 376.

*** It's possible that Hollows and Arrancar don't actually have bones, and that Barragan's "bones" were, in fact, his actual body; when arrancar have their arms cut off, you can't see any bones.

*** There have been tons of times in Bleach where someone's body part was removed from their body and you couldn't see any bones.

*** Nail. Head. Nnoitra may not be the depressed kind of despair, but his entire life goal was "to be living and breathing a constant non-stop war". All he wanted to do was kick ass and take names until somebody stronger than him snuffed him out (Which was why he hated Nel so much. She could easily have ended him several times just like he wanted, but didn't). Also, it's possible he wasn't always Despair. His number used to be 8, and I have a theory that the numbers are possibly tied to the aspects, and 8 is Szayel, or madness. And, well, moving from Madness to despair isn't to big of a jump, right?

*** Whoops. Turns out I, the original poster, was stupidly mixing up the words "nihilism" and "narcissism" when I wrote that. It makes more sense now. Still, Ulquiorra really didn't need to keep using the word "despair" specifically when making his transformation speech.

**** Not to mention that Nnoitra isn't a normal person despairing. He's an [[Axe Crazy]] [[Blood Knight]] who's given up. End result? A burned out, self-loathing [[Death Seeker]].

** He thinks that there will be less bloodshed if he supports what he believes to be the stronger side in the war. In other words, he thinks that the battle will be over quicker if he's on Aizen's side and, therefore, this is the side of "justice". Or at least that's what he claims.

** He presumably believes Aizen will bring order to the world and end conflict, regardless of how many must die to fulfill his plans.

*** We are thinking about the wrong kind of justice here. I read the recent spoiler, and Tousen said: "My fear, from a hundred years ago is to be assimilated with you shinigami and die as such.", in response to Hisagi's questioning him. The woman who was Tousen's dearest friend, was killed shortly after becoming a Shinigami, by her husband because she scolded him for killing a comrade over a petty argument. His "justice" is against the Shinigami, because he believes they caused his friend to be killed by her husband, and that is why he joined Aizen: to claim his "justice" against Soul Society.

* Was Neliel just ''really'' unpopular among the Espada? You'd think at least one of them would take issue with Nnoitra back-stabbing and forcing out an Espada that was more powerful than him over a petty grudge.

 

* Why is Gin cutting Hiyori in half seen as something so morally reprehensible? They're actively trying to kill each other, it's perfectly legitimate.

** One, Gin is one of the people staging the rebellion, so any injuries caused during it are at least partially his fault. Two, the horrifying brutality of his attack. Three, he still had that same jackass grin, so he was really enjoying it. Four, he didn't need to actually do anything at that point. Five, since when do bad guys claim self defense when the heroes try to stop them?

 

 

* So, if the Big Bad Primera Stark can be beaten by Shikai, Yammy is still just a glorified Giant Mook (who Aizen left back home at his fortress), and Tousen, despite supposedly being above the Espada, hit the axe so quickly, how the heck did Aizen plan to make it past the cream of the crop Shinigami Captains of Squard Zero on his way to the Soul King if his entire army is just Cannon Fodder compared to the normal Captains? Yeah, Aizen himself could pose a threat, but if only he could do so in the very end, why did he even need to create a giant army?

*** At this point the statements already passed by the characters as well as the way this whole thing shaped up, there's no way that any one explaination could possibly forgive all of it. It could be awesome enough that people ignore a lot of those things sure, but under the critcal eye there's almost assuredly going to be too many inconsistencies to hold up completely. And really at this point the pace and sheer length of time it's taken us to get this far is unforgivable.

**** The only thing that could slightly forgive this seeming weakness of Aizen's elite army would be something that was used in Katekyou Hitman Reborn: those are not the real elite army. I remember waaay back when it was explained what Vasto Lorde are that right after saying that "10 Vasto Lorde could destroy all of SS" the scene changed to Aizen greeting Ulquiorra saying that he should sit down with his "20 brothers and sisters". Could mean Arrancar in general, could mean Vasto Lorde, could mean fake + real Espada, could be something Kubo forgot alltogether.

** Let's put it this way: you have a best friend (1), someone you would trust with your life. You care about them to the extent that you would gladly risk your life to save them. Everybody you know who has some kind of relationship with this friend feels similarly- that they are an amazing person, that they are totally trustworthy, etc. And now another best friend (2), someone you trust and care about just as much as friend 1, is trying to tell you that it's all a lie, that you're imagining it, have been brainwashed, etc. Even though you remember them having the same type of relationship with friend 1 as you do. Are you seriously suggesting you'd immediately believe friend 2? Most people would think that friend 2 was showing symptoms of mental illness. Also, bear in mind that Tsukishima has not said anything about his powers to Chad and Orihime after he has already changed their histories. Therefore, to them, whatever has been revealed about him never happened, so they do not know that he is evil, or that he is anything but their best friend. He's done some explaining to Ichigo, but only dropped cryptic, seemingly-unsuspicious hints to him when people affected by his Fullbring are near enough to hear him. So they all just think that Ichigo is crazy and that Tsukishima's words are nothing more than a friendly equivalent of the verbal bitch-slapping we've all come to expect in Bleach fight scenes.

*** If I had, in the past, dealt with Kyoka Suigetsu and heard of the duplicity of the widely trusted Aizen, which proves to me that alterations of mind and perception are real (meaning I would take EVERYTHING I see and know with a whole lotta grains of salt), and the trusted person never ''denied'' brainwashing me (or get offended at the idea) and in fact made statements that sound, while vague, suspiciously like confirmrations or mild corrections (as in, "its not changing the past, its creating a new reality" kind of thing), then yes, I would get suspicious of my best, most trusted friend, especially if the one doing the accusing was a friend I trust ''even more'', since its clear that Orihime is still in love with Ichigo and Chad still remembers learning to fight to defend Ichigo, so they still SHOULD trust him enough to not dismiss his statements automatically. Any one of these things wouldn't be enough, but all together? I'd take Tsukushima aside and do some hardcore interrogating, albeit interrogating interspersed with apologies. All of this goes, like, TRIPLE after ''seeing Tsukushima alter someone's personality and memories'' when he stabs Ginjo a second time.

*** Subverted the bleach wiki states that if the victim begins to realize inconsistencies with Tsukishima's presence in their past, and what has actually happened, they begin to suffer mental damage

** He probably had it hacked somehow or other to turn that off.

* Why didn't Tsukushima just use his ability on Ichigo instead of wasting all of that time and effort trying to gain his trust through normal means? And if Soul Society knew about Ginjou, why didn't they tell Ichigo earlier instead of waiting until after he had gotten himself a power-up to fight him? And why not, you know, TELL Ichigo that, hey, we're working on a way to get your powers back to fight this guy, so just hang on a sec? Oh, and if Ginjou as a quasi-legitimate complaint about Soul Society, why wait until *after* he's screwed Ichigo over to tell him about it instead of before when Ichigo still might have been sympathetic enough to listen to him?

* Exactly how could tsukishima lose to byakuya, or fail to make byakuya as blindly loyal as orihime and chad? From what we've seen, he inserted himself into their memories as not only the most important in their life, but also as the one who saved rukia and soul society (''which means he basically took ichigo's place in their minds'').So, shouldn't byakuya's undying loyalty be toward ''him''? Byakuya should have fought against soul society to fight against ''tsukishima's'' ennemies. Or was he really okay with killing the one whom he owes everything, who saved his sister's life, his life and the gotei 13?

** I think Tsukishima inserted himself as Byakuya's swordsmanship teacher only. Hence him saying that he was taught Byakuya everything he knows. He only inserted himself as a friend of Ichigo and Co.'s in Chad and Orihime's memories. He did not take Ichigo's place, the anime makes this a bit clearer. So in Chad and Orihime's minds Tsukishima helped them rescue Rukia along with Ichigo. In Byakuya's mind he was just his Swordsmanship teacher, which is apparently not enough for Byakuya to not kill him for going against Ichigo.

 

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[[Category:Headscratchers]]