Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Headscratchers/Season 3: Difference between revisions

*** Though now that I think about it, maybe there's a little bit of [[Fridge Brilliance]] in that first part. Cordelia wished that Buffy had never come to Sunnydale, and Anya granted her wish. If the Master's ascension had caused any apocalyptic problems, though, the Watchers Council would have sent Buffy there in a hurry, and that would've gone against the wish. So maybe the wish not only [[Cosmic Retcon|Cosmic Retconed]] Buffy's original arrival in Sunnydale, it also retconned the Master's imprisonment and plans to make sure Buffy ''still'' didn't have any reason to show up even after his release. Still woulda loved to see a full-blown demon post-apocalypse, though...

*** Also, without Buffy, "Prophecy Girl" didn't happen. IIRC, the Harvest was just supposed to free the Master, using people's energy. When that failed, he had to get the energy somewhere else. According to the Prophecy and his own monologue to Buffy, drinking Buffy's blood (or just any Slayer's ?) is that exact boost of energy and it allows him to escape, all on his own, without vampirizing any additional energy. In the Wish universe, since the Harvest succeeded, he may not have gone after a Slayer just for a power-up. YMMV, but without that power boost, he may not have opened the Hellmouth for demons to escape... or he may not have had enough power to "reign" over more than Sunnydale.

** As to where the army is: Sunnydale still has its Mayor, one assumes. Whatever pact he made to turn Sunnydale into a demon feeding ground is still in effect.

** To the above tropers I submit we simply didn't spend enough time in Wishworld to see the damage. Note that when Buffy does arrive this is clearly a battle hardened Buffy who's been through more trauma, based on her scars and attitude, than our Buffy went through. I think the world is like Sunnydale the Master rules Sunnydale FROM the Bronze, not the Bronze and he probably figured out something. It's probably like Angel After the Fall and the Master has a small relatively unimportant territory.

*** Ultimately, whether or not the Wishverse ends up a twisted hellscape or not isn't decided as of the end of The Wish. It's come much, much closer than the Buffyverse ever has, because Joss is much less reluctant to have the good guys suffer significant losses in the Wishverse for obvious reasons, but both the Master and Giles are down to the wire, very nearly out of resources and struggling to be the last one standing, because whoever ends up controlling Sunnydale is going to dictate whether vampires seize the world from humans or not. Stopping the Master after he gets some real momentum going is simply not possible. Fortunately, it's very likely that Kendra's watcher will direct her to Sunnydale immediately after her activation, since he's sent her to Sunnydale to investigate far less significant goings on in the Buffyverse and was no more aware that Buffy had come back in the Buffyverse than in the Wishverse (where she actually didn't). Thus, ultimate victory or defeat in the Wishverse comes down to whether Kendra, Giles, and possibly Larry and Oz (if they escaped the plant after staking Willow) can kill the Master.

** That makes Buffy's Watcher not believing Giles about Sunnydale being a hellmouth a little odd, but it would lend an extra layer of meaning to Giles saying that the Master is "the local vampire lord around these parts", if there are other vampires and supernatural figures doing the same elsewhere. And it'd explain why Cordelia's family, and other families with the means to just pack up and move away, still live in Sunnydale: maybe Sunnydale's one of the ''better'' places left in the world. As bad as he is, the Master might be the only thing that's keeping the even bigger and meaner demons at bay.

 

== Losing Faith ==

** Hm. In "Band Candy" and "Gingerbread," the adults of Sunnydale have been magically driven insane. Given that Faith is both mentally unstable and older than the rest of the cast, maybe she was part of the problem rather than the solution. Faith on band candy is a terrifying concept. In "Lover's Walk", as I recall there really wasn't a point where it would have made sense to try to contact her.

** Um, it isn't canon that Faith is older than the others. In fact, most fans get the impression that she's younger. It definitely would have been nice had they explained Faith's absences a little more. Just a line would have been nice.

*** It's implied it affects everyone, it's just that most teenagers don't notice it because they're, well, teenagers.

 

== Jonathan's gun in Earshot ==

* This is a minor thing but it always bugged me: if Johnathan was going up to the bell tower to kill himself in Earshot, why did he have that big, high-powered, rifle? It seem to me if someone (especially someone as short as Johnathan) tried to shoot himself with that gun, he'd bumble around, make a complete mess of the whole task, and most likely leave himself horribly maimed instead of dead.

** My god, that was so weird. How could you even aim a rifle like that at yourself? With a scope and everything? What was he going to do, shoot his foot and bleed to death?

** No idea where he even ''got'' a rifle like that (then again, this is Sunnydale), but it's not like Jonathan is supposed to have tons of common sense. Without knowing a lot about guns, he probably would have gone with whatever he thought [[Rule of Cool|looked coolest]]-- or maybe he assumed using the most powerful thing he could get his hands on would decrease his chance surviving, or having time to experience pain -- or maybe he just hated life so much that he felt that merely dying would be insufficient, and that only [[No Kill Like Overkill|splattering his entire head against the wall like a Gallagherian watermelon]] would suffice. Whichever you pick, it kind of underscores how little he's thought this through, [[Fridge Brilliance|which is oddly appropriate to the scene]].

** Also why go to the clocktower?

**** He's right, though agreed. Why?

***** Handguns are easier to conceal, which makes them more useful for things like armed robbery. If someone robs a store with a rifle they can't just stick the gun in their pocket after they've gotten away, which makes them stand out more and thus are more likely to be caught.

* The meta reason is so that we (and Buffy) would suspect him of being a mass murderer. Neither of us would suspect him if he went to the tower with a handgun, since that's not gonna kill anybody up there. With a rifle though, it seemed definite that he was gonna start picking people off.

** Fridge Brilliance; it could have been for this very reason; so that someone would care enough to stop him. As a suicide attempt, it's mildly clumsy, as a cry for help...

 

== Anya's Power Center ==

* I really think Giles holds a lot of responsibility for how things went bad with Faith. He was officially her Watcher until he was fired, and it was his job to express concern for her well-being. He was basically paid to look after her, but he never did. This was a teenage girl who had seriously been through the ringer. Seeing her Watcher brutally murdered was just the tip of the iceberg in what was presumably her life of utter suckage. In Sunnydale she was lonely, unhappy, and living in a dingy motel room (and who knows how she got the money to pay for it), but we never see Giles make any effort to reach out to her, improve her situation, and provide her with some stability, direction, or even half the affection he showed Buffy. He could have at least asked the Council for some money to provide her with better living conditions. Gwen Post did more than Giles to reach out to Faith, even if she was just faking it for evil ulterior motives. And it was quite clear from Faith's interaction with Gwen and the Mayor that she wouldn't have been too proud to accept any help, attention, and approval Giles might have provided. In fact, evidence suggests the opposite: she would have soaked it up, and it would have made her more mentally stable. It's a shame that the only people who truly expressed an interest in Faith's well-being at this point in time were the bad guys. I think that Giles' neglect of Faith is a major oversight on his part as both her Watcher and, more generally, as an adult.

** You do realize that the Watcher's job is to train the slayer to kill things and then point her at the things to be killed. It's not his job to keep her sane, comfortable or well adjusted. He's gone above and beyond with Buffy and that has tainted the view of what's expected. Notice how Giles' affection and indulgence of Buffy is considered a very bad thing by the Watchers. I'll grant you it's a failing on his part as an adult but he's not required to do anything for her benefit, Watcherwise.

** If Giles had asked the Council for money to aid Faith's living conditions, they would've laughed in his face. The Coucil are a bunch of arrogant dicks. They don't give a damn about the slayers.

*** What the above troper said. If Buffy or Giles had asked the Council to give Buffy a salary after her mother died they would have told him to sit on it, so they sure as hell weren't going to give Faith a salary when she could have gotten at least a part-time job (however crappy) during the day. She's unemployed, 17 years old, and a high school drop-out, yet she lives at the motel, travels around, feeds herself, and buys trashy outfits. Her philosophy of "Want. Take. Have." AKA stealing, could explain it, but I think she'd need a more reliable source of income for all that. It is true however that Faith's situation in early season 3 makes Giles look at best distracted by other concerns (Buffy's drama) and at worst callous. The obvious explanation for it is that the writer's didn't think "how come the only adult who has no other dependents doesn't at least visit Faith to see how she's doing?" therefore Giles doesn't think of it either. Probably if he dropped by her motel sometimes people would think he's her pimp or her john. As for Giles not showing her any affection, I give you her first interaction with Giles where she hits on him, when Xander saves her live she has sex with him, and she hugs the Mayor suggestively and calls him "Sugar Daddy" when he gives her a new apartment. Any man that's nice to her, clearly due to her bad experiences with men in the past, she interprets it as a ''quid pro quo'' situation and she responds the way she thinks they want her to. It isn't that Giles doesn't have the will power to gently turn her down, it's just that when someone's brain has been screwed with as spectacularly as Faith's was, it's very difficult to help them correct their thinking to what's healthy without some kind of therapy, and what therapist could Faith have possibly talked to? Giles openly giving an underprivileged, emotionally damaged, orphan teenager money, hugs and "private talks in his office" looks so much worse than when he does those things for Buffy, whose mother knows about their relationship. Faith might have felt like he thought she owed him something and grown resentful of this so-called debt. If he or Buffy pissed her off she likely would have turned on him on a dime, as she did to Buffy a quite a few times, even used his generosity against him to get him arrested (she IS kind of crazy and doesn't think of consequences). He had Buffy and the gang over at his place before they graduated high school because he trusted them as his friends. Giles didn't have Faith over at his house because he barely knew her and she had so many trust issues, and she betrayed them about four months after meeting them, not really enough time for him to let someone get close, let alone for Faith to let someone in. Yet Faith has a certain respect for Giles, if the "canon" Season 8 comics are included (I haven't read much of those because my walls can't take that kind of abuse but I know the general Giles and Faith storyline) along with the few interactions the two characters get in the show. She is ''pissed'' when she finds Giles critically injured in "Revelations". She appeared to want the kind of relationship with the Mayor that Buffy had with Giles, but she never blames Giles for what happened to her. She both verbally and physically lashes out at Buffy, Willow, Xander, Angel and Wesley, but never attacks Giles. Here is my fanwank, based on what we see of their relationship: it's possible that he was her source of income until she broke with the group for good, and all of their scenes were off-screen. If Giles has Buffy in the library to witness him handing over cash to Faith (so there's no paper trail), and Joyce knows about it (Joyce was the one after all who wanted Faith over for dinner more than once) he has people to back him up if something goes awry. In Season 1 of "Angel" she picks Wesley to torture over Cordelia because she has no personal grudge against Cordy - she blames her problems partially on Wesley for his failure as her Watcher and for turning her in to the Council:

* Just because Faith herself doesn’t seem to hold Giles at least partly responsible for her downfall (which I don’t believe was as inevitable as you describe it) doesn't mean he wasn't partially at fault in actuality. Certainly, Faith was screwed up long before she ever came to Sunnydale, but she wasn't completely shut off from people. There's no reason to suggest that Faith would have reacted badly to Giles taking an interest in her well-being. It's made fairly clear in the series that she didn't really have much of a problem with authority figures (beyond them ending up dead all the time), and in fact, she was looking for some adult guidance and support, even if she wouldn't admit it. When you consider the crap authority figures she’s likely had in the past and the fact that her one good authority figure was gruesomely murdered in front of her, it’s kind of amazing how fast she took to Gwendolyn Post and the Mayor. Post, in particular, is the best example here. She didn't shower Faith with affection and physical goods like the Mayor; she was strict and no nonsense and didn't take any of Faith's attitude, but she still expressed an interest in her, even if it was only as a Watcher. Faith might have grumbled about it, but she was still ready to follow Post's instructions (and I don't think it was simply because Post was playing on her fears). I think if Giles had taken a similar interest, things might have gone quite a bit differently. We can discuss how poorly the Watcher's Council treated Slayers and use that as one of the reasons Giles didn't step up to care for her more extensively, but that doesn't explain why we pretty much never see him acting as a Watcher in the most basic sense towards her. That was something that was his job. I find it understandable why he wouldn't get involved in Faith's life, and I really do understand that he had a lot to deal with regarding his own life and Buffy's life, and it's completely human for people to get wrapped up in their own issues. But I still think, if we go by what we actually see (or rather don't see) in the series, that he should be held ''accountable'' for his lack of action regarding Faith, whether it's understandable or not. Faith is ultimately responsible for the things she did, but other people, before and during her stay in Sunnydale, helped drive her to that point. I think Giles’ was one of those people not because of anything he did, but because of what he didn’t do. He wasn’t on Faith’s radar as someone to get back at because he didn’t do anything ''to'' her. For me, it's just as bad that he didn’t do anything ''for'' her either.

** Look, yes Giles could have done much more for Faith but he was already busy with his job as a librarian, his own personal life, his life as a Watcher which includes copious amounts of time researching demons, handling Buffy and the regular Scoobies, and on top of that we're going to pile complete responsibility for Faith's emotional problems on him? Could he have done more? Yes. Realistically would any person in a situation like Giles been able to help? No. Is it fair to place so much blame on him for Faith? No, especially not when he'd only been around her for a few months at the most. It's kind of like blaming a girl's suicide on the therapist she's been seeing for a few weeks and saying that it's his fault he didn't do more. Realistically, Giles is only at fault because he didn't go out of his way to make Faith his number one priority when he had no reason to do such a thing until after Allan Finch was staked and by that point it was too late. You're just biased because you saw both sides of what was happening but if you lacked knowledge of what was happening to Faith, you'd probably act in the exact same way Giles did.

** One of the reason, EVERYONE initially took Gwen Post at face value was that they all expected Faith to eventually have her own Watcher. She had had until he/she was killed by Kakistos afterall. Even if she was now living in Sunnydale, in the same location as the other Slayer, it didn't necessarily mean that Buffy's Watcher was also her own. It wasn't until Wesley arrived to replace Giles as Buffy's Watcher that it was officially stated that Wesley would also act as Faith's Watcher. In that context, Giles may not have wanted to "step on anyone's (future) toes" by going beyond the current official limits of his mandate. Yes, yes, it was only in regards to his duties as Watcher, as a human being and an adult, he might have helped Faith regardless... But you can bet the Council would have held it against him regardless and used it as further proof that he was to close to the Slayer(s).

* I had never really considered this before, but once I read it, it's clear that Giles really could have done more. Several posts have implied or stated that Giles didn't know Faith for long enough to bond or influence her. But the fact is, Dick the Mayor knew her for far less time and came to think of her as a daughter and she genuinely cared about him too. (He also saw her as a instrument, but he was obviously very distraught when Buffy put Faith in a coma; his connection to Faith is how Buffy taunted [[I Thought It Meant|Demon!Dick]] to get him to follow her to the explosive-filled library.) Imagine for a second, what if Giles had been as kind and supportive towards Faith as the Mayor was? (Assuming Buffy didn't get all crazy possessive, that is.) As far as Faith interpreting a guy's kindness as ''quid pro quo'' for sexytimes, again, look at the Mayor. She did think that way at first, but the Mayor gently but firmly rebuffed her advances and told her that her happiness was rewarding enough. And Faith accepted it. She was a little stunned, maybe, that there was a guy being decent to her without trying to get in her pants, but she really, really wanted a family, and when the Mayor offered to be her father figure, she went for it. Makes Faith a much more tragic character to realize that she was really just starved for genuine affection, and if Giles/the Scoobies had tried to make her feel like part of the group, she may have never gone so dark. She wasn't evil; the Mayor was just much nicer to her than anyone else (besides maybe Joyce, but Buffy is very selfish, possessive, and jealous). As for "Faith should have known better anyway," don't forget that however badass and full of swagger she may be, she's still a teenager lacking in real maturity. If Faith had felt like she could count on Giles's support, even if she had still killed the deputy mayor, she would probably have told the truth, gotten some therapy, and the Council would have smoothed things over with the law. Really, as someone who had himself gone through a dark, rebellious, dangerous phase, Giles should have been more attentive and '''Watchful''' with Faith.

* Actually, Buffy is also pretty responsible as well. Faith was clearly desperate for a family and to be included, but Buffy is, as mentioned above, selfish, possessive, and jealous. We're meant to sympathize with Buffy feeling like Faith is pushing her out, but how petty was Buffy really being? Faith was making friends with her friends, and getting attention from her Watcher (who, let's not forget ''really was'' Faith's Watcher too). Buffy's reaction was "Oh no, Faith's taking the spotlight away from me!" I would argue that Faith was just being a little sister and trying to be a part of Buffy's life, but Buffy has never been the best big sister (even with Dawn, she was never very sisterly for long--note the episode "Potential" for proof long after the whole Key business/back-from-Heaven depression has worn off). If Buffy had tried harder to make Faith be part of the family, maybe Faith would have started following Buffy's example instead of being the bad influence on Buffy.

* I'm rewatching the show recently, and I've noticed there are a lot of forgettable lines in season three about Faith shrugging off everyone, going missing for day/weeks on end, and being generally antagonistic towards Buffy and Giles' attempts to reach her. She is starved for attention and love, but she's also traumatized into a "I don't need anyone but myself" attitude and openly pushed back against attempts to reach her with words and kindness. For example, her initial blowoff of Buffy's christmas invitation through the bs excuse of "I have this big party I'm invited to," because she (correctly, in this particular example) assumes Buffy's just being nice out of obligation. People who have been through the kind of trauma Faith's been implied to have had, tend to see everyone around them as a potential threat. Faith reacts negatively to Buffy and Faith's attempts to reach out to her because she sees it as, "What's in it for you? You're not doing this because you care about me, so where is your gain?" If there is no clear answer to that, then she perceives it as either a trick or something they're being forced to do, and has no desire to be a part of either. With the Mayor, there was a more clear-cut, "You do this, this, and this for me. In return, I give you money, a home, and the affection you desire." It was never presented as a wholly selfless desire to help her, and that made her more comfortable opening up to him, because she didn't have to look at him with paranoid thoughts of "What are you REALLY after?"

 

== Spike's Invitation to Buffy' Home ==

 

Not sure if this belongs in Headscratchers or Fridge Logic but, did anyone else notice that the solar eclipse in the season finale apparently lasted for the rest of the day?

 

== What was the Mayor thinking? ==

** I always wondered about that until ''[[Angel]]'' introduced us to {{spoiler|Knox}}, a modern-day worshiper of Illyria who secretly worked his whole life to bring her back. Looking back on it with that in mind, Wilkins was probably a similar worshiper of Olvikan, and his long-term goal was to ascend and become Olvikan's new vessel on Earth. The transformation wasn't a means to an end, it was the entire end-goal in itself; that the transformation also retained some of his human personality was just a lucky break for Buffy. Also, going by his dialogue to his vampire henchmen about how he had to feed to "sustain the change" (and the last ascension of Olvikan being stopped by a volcanic eruption) the form might be vulnerable in its newborn state in a way that, if Buffy and the class hadn't intervened, would have worn off.

** We don't really know that the transformed state of the Mayor is any less invulnerable than the Mayor was previously. Yes, we've seen the Mayor recover from quite a few injuries, some of which certainly would have been lethal, but his giant snake demon form was also supposed to be unkillable by most means. We don't know that the Mayor could have regenerated from being exploded into paste any better than his transformed snake demon form could.

 

== Willow never liked Faith? ==

** From ''Consequences'' onward, things really go downhill. Willow learns of Faith trying to frame Buffy for murder, and sleeping with Xander. This was also the episode that had Faith's infamous attempted rape and murder of Xander, which may or may not be known about.

** From here anything else that happened, Faith kidnapping her, poisoning Angel, the body swap and such would certainly give Willow reason to not like her. I'm just curious in how people say Willow never liked her when in the first half of the season Willow thought Faith was cool.

 

== Rich's Tattoo of Lily ==

 

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[[Category:Headscratchers]]

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