Crossover Cosmology: Difference between revisions

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This can be justified from the characters' viewpoint by having them point out that there's no reason they should believe that, say, Thor is a god in the same sense Yahweh is, when there are people who are flying around and summoning lightning, or are even [[Immortality|immortal]], who are plain old [[Mutants]], [[Meta Origin|metahumans]], or [[Human Aliens|aliens]].

 

 

Some belief systems work like this; the term "henotheism" exists to describe the belief that all gods exist, but one's particular god is superior. Of course, most people who ascribe to this don't have said gods [[Physical God|playing croquet in their backyard]]. In fact, quite a few non-Abrahamic religions worked this way. The Romans believed in Jupiter, and the Egyptians believed in Ra, but the Romans didn't think believing in Ra was wrong, just not for them; they were fine with any kind of worship as long as you skipped [[Human Sacrifice]] and paid proper respect to the gods they did recognize. They experienced some amount of confusion in this regard when trying to take over Judea. The Romans also occasionally claimed other peoples' gods were their gods under different names, hence for example, the "Gallo-Roman" god Apollo Sucellus (combining the Roman sun god with a Gaulish god of agriculture), or Tacitus writing that the Germanic tribes worshipped Hercules (Donar) and Mercury (Woten); this is why certain Roman and Greek gods are all but interchangeable today.

 

 

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== [[Anime]] and [[Manga]] ==

* ''[[Saint Young Men]]'', which stars Jesus and Buddha as roommates in Japan while they take a break from their divine duties. One of the chapters has them participating in a Shinto festival, where Buddha worries that they'll be laughing stocks in Heaven if the god of the Shinto Shrine they're carrying finds out that they're there.

 

== [[Comic Books]] ==

** The most prominent Marvel god characters are the Norse god Thor and Greek demigod Hercules, both of whom have served on the Avengers. Many other pantheons exist as well, alongside "new" godlike beings such as the Eternals, the Celestials, the Elders of the Universe, Eternity, and others. A storyline in ''[[The Incredible Hercules]]'' featured Herc leading the "God Squad," a task force of Greek, Inuit, Egyptian, Japanese, and Aztec gods that teams up to defend the Earth from encroachment by alien Skrull deities.

** A henotheistic aspect of Marvel cosmology is the ultimate Omniscient God-with-a-capital-G, called "One Above All." The [[Fantastic Four]] met him in one story, in which he turns out to be... [[Jack Kirby]]!!! (Or perhaps Kirby was simply [[A Form You Are Comfortable With]].) Other stories have implied that the "One Above All" is a manifestation of [[Marvel Comics]] itself.

** [[Vertigo Comics]]' ''[[The Sandman]]'' had Egyptian, Norse, Greek, Shinto, and the Judeo-Christian gods, claiming that they all [[Clap Your Hands If You Believe|come from the human subsconscious]] and feed on human belief. The paradoxes created by this are ironed out by the fact that ''everything'' is true; the universe was created by [[Department of Redundancy Department|Allah and Yahweh]] ''and'' every ''other'' creator god. To further muddle the waters, The Endless, [[Anthropomorphic Personification]] of fundamental concepts of reality, have more power than entire pantheons - though they can become weaker in a god's place of power. At the same time, the ''Sandman'' milieu is also presented as a henotheistic one in which Lucifer (and, especially, Lucifer's Creator) are depicted as far more powerful than even the Endless.

** The DCU's version of the Judeo-Christian God grows out of the lore surrounding the character of [[The Spectre]], who is a being of almost limitless power. And if the Spectre is that powerful, what about his creator?

** [[Jack Kirby]]'s [[New Gods]] are also part of the equation in the DCU. One [[Wonder Woman]] story suggested that the Greek gods discovered a small tribe in Italy that worshipped them (due to stories told by Darkseid for [[Batman Gambit|reasons of his own]]), and created duplicates of themselves to watch over them. As the Romans grew more powerful and developed a culture distinct from the Greeks, the duplicate gods changed to suit them, until they were entirely seperate entities.

** A ''[[Superman]]'' story, set shortly after Zeus had teamed up with the Hindu pantheon in ''[[Wonder Woman]]'', had Zeus inspired to set up the Interfaith Deity Council of Active Polytheistics, comprising himself, Odin, Thoth and Ale (a West African fertility goddess). They were opposed by a group of [[God of Evil|Gods Of Evil]] comprising Baal, the Morrigan (Celtic war goddess), Izanami (Japanese death goddess), Mixcoatl, and Ahriman (the Zoroastian [[Ultimate Evil]]).

** ''[[Shazam|Captain Marvel]]'' anti-hero/villain Black Adam draws his powers from the Egyptian pantheon. Captain Marvel himself gets his powers from a Hebrew king, two Greek heroes, one titan, a Greek god, and a Roman god.

'''Donnah:''' Aphrodite is real, and so are Pan and Zeus, and all the other surviving Olympians. }}

** Flare herself is the daughter of a Norse Valkyrie.

* In the ''Necrophim'' prologue chapter, [[Satan|Lucifer]] sends Uriel to kill Jotunheim, king of the frost giants of [[Norse Mythology]], [[Uriah Gambit|hoping he will die]] in the attempt.

* When [[Alan Moore]] was writing ''Supreme, Youngblood'' and ''Glory'' for [[Rob Liefeld]]'s Extreme Studios, he invented a system of magic that based on the Kaballistic Tree of Life and could incorporate all religious systems, from Judeo-Christian to Greek, Norse and Egyptian, to whatever [[Eldritch Abomination]] the writers wanted to create for the story. Although he was never able to use this system in Liefeld's titles, he later incorporated this system in his own title ''[[Promethea]]''.

* The backstory of ''Harry Kipling (Deceased)'' involved every single one of humanity's gods suddenly returning. [[Crapsack World|And they're not nice]].

 

== [[Film]] ==

** In ''The Mummy'', Imhotep has god-like powers and is able to recreate the ten plagues, even though in the Biblical account of the Exodus story the Egyptian gods could only replicate the first two. The group of warriors who fight him, and whose ancestors gave him his power, are Muslims.

** In ''The Mummy Returns'', the Scorpion King earned his powers and army from Anubis. And there's reincarnation, which isn't a part of ''any'' of those cosmologies.

 

== [[Literature]] ==

* This is inverted in the ''[[Discworld]]'' universe, where there are multiple gods and anthropomorphic personifications (the kind that exist only because [[Clap Your Hands If You Believe|people believe they should exist]]), and the Omnians are portrayed as odd in their insistence on a monotheistic belief system. It is often stated that several gods appear in more than one Pantheon - for example, many religions have different Thunder Gods, but they are actually all the same god, wearing different hats (He used to be separate gods, but apparently they merged as people started believing them to be the same god with a different name). The book ''Small Gods'' explores in detail the process by which gods are created and rise to be powerful.

** [[Gods Need Prayer Badly|Or fall because people no longer believe in them.]]

*** At one point in the book, the various sun gods are seen fighting over the sun.

** There's also that extended scene with the djinn, which comes from Islamic tradition.

** One of the gods also mentions that Afghanistan's Jesus is having a rough time, and can't even get people to pick him up when he's hitchhiking.

* ''[[Everworld]]'': every god of every mythology on Earth decides to collaborate in making a parallel universe where they could all have a sphere of influence. It really gets messy when gods from other universes, like those of the Hetwan and the Coo Hatch, start barging in.

** It's also mentioned in ''Titans of Chaos'' that other pantheons do exist but that most of their members were destroyed in the war with Chaos.

** The [[Norse Mythology|Norse pantheon]] has adapted to the times, becoming a {{spoiler|mercenary company led by Odin, with the Einherjar as the soldiers.}} {{spoiler|Odin also seems to be taking an active role Harry's own world, appearing as part of the Grey Council.}}

*** In ''Proven Guilty,'' Harry specifically mentions that gods from Greco-Roman, Norse, Amerind, Africant, Australian Aboriginal, Polynesian, southeast Asian, and Hindu mythology all exist, and have lied dormant for centures. {{spoiler|followers of Dionysus show up in one of the short stories trying to ignite a massive drunken rampage of sports fans.}}

*** There's also the Red Court's Lords of the Outer Night, which may or may not be Mayan gods. If they aren't, then they're impersonating them. Either way, the Mayan gods exist in the setting. {{spoiler|Unless it was the Lords from the beginning, if that's the case, then they don't exist anymore.}}

** And now the sequel series to ''Percy Jackson'', ''Heroes of Olympus'', is bringing the Roman gods fully into the mix, along with {{spoiler|Roman demigods}}.

* In the ''[[Iron Druid Chronicles]]'' many different pantheons exist alongside each other. The protagonist is a druid who worships the Earth and pays lip service to the ancient Irish gods. The Greek god Bacchus is very powerful in Las Vegas while Native American deities still have some power in the surounding areas. The Polish witches get their powers from a moon goddess and a Viking vampire is trying to find a way to kill the Norse god Thor. Jesus and other figures from Christianity appear as a seperate pantheon with Mary frequently appearing among humans to help out the poor and homeless.

** Some pantheons have additional versions that appear when the beliefs of two groups of followers diverge too much. There are dozens of versions of the Native American god Coyote. The North American version of Thor is seperate from the original Norse Thor and based primarily on the comic book character.

* In Manda Scott's ''Boudicca'' series both the Celtic gods and Mithra play significant roles. It's implied that the Roman gods no longer take an active part in things because their worship has devolved into empty ritual.

 

* ''[[Xena: Warrior Princess]]'' and ''[[Hercules: The Legendary Journeys]]'' eventually expanded from Greek mythology into demonstrating the literal existence of any and every religion's deities, including the monotheistic God and Hindu gods.

* Lampshaded in ''[[Rome]]'', when the very religious Vorenus asks Pulo to show some respect toward the Egyptian gods because "They where powerful long before Rome was born"

** Although it's possible that he is the original Loki...

 

== Mythology/Real Life ==

** Also, Io was paralleled with the Egyptian Isis. In some versions of her myth, Zeus restores her to her human form when she reaches Egypt and she is thereafter worshipped by the Egyptians as the goddess Isis.

* Many demons in modern Christian mythology are thought to have originally been the gods of the Hebrews' neighbor cultures, or at the very least were given their names ''by'' Christians. Theologians have debated whether those pagan gods were supposed to be actual entities who were demons all along or whether Christians simply applied the names of those gods ''to'' demons. If the latter is the case, then it likely stemmed from efforts by Christians to further discourage people from assuming that paganism held any real weight.

* The Hare Krishna movement believes the Judeo-Christian [[God]] and the Hindu god Krishna to be the same entity.

* In both China and Japan the people have no problem accepting both the native pantheons and Buddhism.

== Newspaper Comics ==

* In ''[[Frank and Ernest]]'', an angel once told the [[Grandpa God]]:

 

== [[Role Playing Games]] ==

* The original game lines in ''[[Old World of Darkness]]'' all had creation myths specific to the supernatural monster they talked about (werewolves, mages, vampires, fairies, mummies, wraiths, demons) which were at times hard to reconcile if not mutually exclusive. Some were specifically Judeo-Christian, others were paganistic or had cosmologies unrelated to either. In some cases they had world views and game mechanics that said all ''other'' supernatural creatures should not exist, or that they ("they" usually being "mages") could do ''anything''... except cure vampirism or lycanthropy.

** It should be noted that Mages could cure vampirism...it just wasn't a good idea. The Paradox backlash from that would, in all likelihood, kill the Mage stone dead. As for lycanthropy, what's to cure? Werewolves are not sick, they've always been werewolves.

** Several D&D supplements, such as ''Complete Priest's Handbook'' or the various editions of ''Deities & Demigods'', discuss methods of integrating different historical pantheons into a campaign world. Options range from ruling that different pantheons' deities are inherently blind to one another's existence, to saying that all deities are part of the same mega-pantheon, with regional pantheons simply omitting gods who are less popular locally.

*** While most canonic ([[Planescape]]) meta-mythology involves hundreds upon hundreds of deities of many pantheons interlinked in alliances or eternal cold wars, as well as things like the sacred pool of beauty being in shared ownership of several beauty/love goddesses (including Aphrodite) who as embodiments of different ideals pass their free time practicing friendly rivalry. Because why not? The smaller mortals like "high and mighty" PC will feel, the better!

* In ''[[Rifts]]'' Earth, the mythological Pantheons each ruled directly over the civilizations that worshipped them, and clashes between the civilizations often included clashes between the Gods themselves. Most of them left the Earth a long time ago, but are starting to turn their eyes back towards their old territories, and the world at large... Except for the Egyptian gods, who are busy being the most powerful pantheon of a [[Medieval European Fantasy]] world.

 

== [[Video Games]] ==

** You can help them grow to like you, if you can convince them to [[Mon|aid you]].

*** Incorrect. There are quite a few original characters made for the series as well demons based on fictional characters. Like Beetlejuice [[Little Shop of Horrors|Audrey]].

 

== [[Web Comics]] ==

* The Gods of Arr-Kelaan has several pantheons existing together, though to be fair, many of those pantheons were actually the same gods.

* This is subverted in ''[[Wapsi Square]]''. Rather early on, we are introduced to characters who seem to be deities and mythical figures from various cosmologies, but they are all actually remnants of an ancient civilization older than the cosmology in question. One character in particular played the role of multiple deities herself.

 

== [[Western Animation]] ==

* ''[[Family Guy]]'' showed Peter thank Jesus, who is then seen to state that it wasn't him, only for ''Vishnu'' to come up and quietly state that he is used to it.

** Jesus and Vishnu also appeared in Seth MacFarlane's Comedy Cavalcade, in which Jesus boasted that Vishnu didn't have a birthday as celebrated as his (Christmas).

* [[Samurai Jack]] has featured appearances of members of the Egyptian (Horus), Norse (Odin) and Hindu (Indra) pantheons although it's hinted that they might be [[Sufficiently Advanced Aliens]]. Also the [[Big Bad]] {{spoiler|is the outgrowth of a remnant of a [[Cosmic Horror]] that looked an awful lot like Azathoth.}}

** There's also the Super Best Friends, whose ranks include Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Joseph Smith, and Muhammad.

*** [[And Zoidberg|Don't forget Sea-Man!]]

 

{{reflist}}

[[Category:Speculative Fiction Tropes]]