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Line 10: * The citizens were freaked out, so they blamed it on an opium binge. Humans have an amazing capacity of self-deception, because [[Status Quo Is God\|the public will always refuse the existence of aliens.]] * It's reasonable to assume that, without having witnessed it first-hand, and with no surviving evidence as to what actually happened, she wouldn't have a clue what went on. And, just no be nit-picky, the {{spoiler\|giant robot}} ''wasn't'' alien in origin, and nor, strictly speaking, were the Cybermen who built it. * [[Doctor Who/Recap/~~NS/S2~~S28/E05 Rise of the Cybermen\|He/she's right.]] {{spoiler\|500 feet? Closer to 90, 100 tops. Still noticably large yes, still a [[Humongous Mecha]], but 500feet is silly. I can think of several mecha including [[Real Robot~~\|Real Robots~~]]s that size wise far outclass it... and if you include [[Super Robot~~\|Super Robots~~]]s its easy-peezy.}} How did the Doctor recognise the Cyberking as a ship, when no such thing has ever been built by the Cybus Cybermen? Let's not forget, these ''aren't'' the Cybermen he's been encountering intermittently throughout his life; the only contact he's had with them was in "Rise of the Cybermen" and "Army of Ghosts". * Because it ''[[NameDar\|Looks like a Cyberking]]'', and Cyberkings are ships. Line 87: * Why does the Mars base have gigantic hallways between sections? First off, they're so long that the episode has a running gag about the need for bicycles. Adelaide mentions that they didn't bring bicycles, or anything else not absolutely necessary, because every pound of cargo requires three tons of fuel. But if their technology is limited enough that fuel is such a concern, why did they build these gigantic hallways? Seriously, they're big enough for a truck to drive through. There's no need for such capacity when the base only holds a few people, and obviously big hallways require more material to build that small hallways. So apparently they brought all these extra materials (and resulting fuel) just so they could build their hallways far larger than they needed to be. It's just bad design, is all I'm saying. ** Not necessarily; it depends on how far ahead you're thinking. Presumably Bowie Base One is intended to be the foundation of a greater human presence on ~~Mars -- a~~Mars—a larger facility, perhaps even eventually a ~~colony -- and~~colony—and is built in anticipation of future development with plenty of space to eventually accommodate upgrades, supplies and a larger population; they wouldn't have built it if it was only ever going to be for these ten (or however many) people. Since building materials presumably weigh more (and thus cost more) to send up than people and things like bikes, you're not going to want to be constantly sending building materials up, since that's going to cost a lot over time and decrease how many other useful things you can send up (such as more people, bikes, etc). If you build it big to start with, then it's ~~built -- it~~built—it might cost a lot to initially get the resources up there, but once it's done you don't need to worry about sending any more building materials to expand it further until it reaches capacity, by which time you've presumably sent up a lot more people and other useful-but-nonessential tools (such as bikes), you've got a thriving community going and you can start drawing upon the resources around you (such as mining, terraforming, etc) to help you expand, thus lessening the amount which needs to be sent from Earth. Built it small initially and equipped solely for the first people there, however, and if you want to expand your operations then you need to send more building materials from Earth, which means less people and other things which could be useful, which means everything develops at a much slower pace. Bikes were presumably a nonessential item, since everyone on the crew could just walk to where they want to go. * When the Doctor talks about the prophecy of the four knocks, he states that he "thinks [he] knows what that is, and [he] doesn't hear knocking, do you?". Considering that he was not aware of The Master, what did he think that was? Line 94: * Alright, I'm ready to face complaints of being part of a [[Fan Dumb]] or [[Misaimed Fandom]] or operating on [[Blue and Orange Morality]] or whatever, but this has been bugging me for over a week now and I just NEED to get it out. What is it with everyone acting like the Doctor crossed the [[Moral Event Horizon]] in Waters of Mars? That he has become some kind of monster that crossed the line or something? Because frankly, I don't see it. He went [[Screw Destiny]] to save some lives. That's pretty much a hero-exclusive thing. He went all arrogant and had a bit of an [[A God Am I]] thing going on, boasting about saving "unimportant people" and being the Time Lord Victorious (am I the only one who thinks that's an awesome title?), fine. But those were just words. He always had a thing towards the [[Badass Boast]]. I'd feel boastful too if I just defied the universe like this. People don't just change suddenly at the snap of a finger. He'd still be the Doctor in the future. Even if he decided to change future events, it'd be likely a nicer universe than one that sends Time-Dragons to eat everyone involved at an inconvenience. Then there's the thing that he risked a different future. So what? That it was a different future doesn't mean it would be a BAD future. YMMV if it's worth the risk I guess, but trying would make him a [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]] at worst. And as he said, Adelaide could've just inspired her ancestors by being alive and at home. It's not really so great a change that it could end up in the world being ruled by Daleks or something. And even then, the Doctor would find a way to fix it. Sure, maybe he'd eventually end up changing all of history, but if he had good intentions for it, that'd at least be somewhat acceptable. I don't see him as a future Evil God-Emperor or something, anyway. Now the "the rules of time shall obey me!" thing? Yeah, that's pretty arrogant, I admit and defies typical hero humility rules. But the Doctor always was a bit arrogant. Nothing wrong with that, as long as he stays a good person. Besides, I myself see it as a bit of a "Make the power your own to do good" thing. Similar to what [[Dark Is Not Evil]] people try to do? You're tropers, you should know what I mean. The point I am trying to make, even if he went a bit over the edge ego-wise, there is nothing in that episode to warrant everyone acting like he became a monster. If a classical hero is faced with the choice of letting people die for some rules or saving people and breaking the rules, most of them would screw the risks and try to save lives anyway. Again, the Doctor would be a [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]] at worst. Maybe that's not his style, but he's not going to turn into the Master overnight. First, yeah, I know what you mean. He was a bit arrogant but overall his actions were justified; he was just trying to save people and he actually ''did'' it (though the suicide made it less of a triumph). Basically, the lesson of that episode didn't really mesh with the actual events of the episode, and the fans who say the Doctor did something evil here are mainly parroting the intended lesson. Second, obviously ''most'' fans don't think the Doctor is evil, even after this episode, because we're all still watching the show and we still love the Doctor. This, I suspect, is going to be a bit of an essay, but I can't help but feel that some points are being missed in the above posts (and in a lot of these "oh, well Adelaide could have inspired her granddaughter anyway" style arguments in general) that I'd like to address. ** This, I suspect, is going to be a bit of an essay, but I can't help but feel that some points are being missed in the above posts (and in a lot of these "oh, well Adelaide could have inspired her granddaughter anyway" style arguments in general) that I'd like to address.<br /><br />Firstly, if nothing else, unintentionally or not the Doctor ''drives a woman to commit suicide''. We can go backwards and forwards and quibble about whether Adelaide could have inspired her granddaughter in person or whether the future would have been the same or different, or whether she did it to spite him or whether she did it to teach him a lesson or whether she did it because she was broken by the uncertainty the Doctor's actions directly contributed or what her motives were. But fact remains, the Doctor's actions directly contributed towards Adelaide deciding to take her own life. That's pretty bad all by it's lonesome, and not just because it makes what he did 'less of a triumph'. Not surprising that people would take a dim view of the Doctor there.<br /><br />Secondly, cliche or not, there's a reason that people say "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". People have gone on to do terrible things having started out with good intentions. The Doctor might not become evil (although I don't believe anyone is saying that he is) and he might not do so overnight, but good intentions or not, he is putting himself on a path that can lead to him committing great evil. Because even if 'all' he's doing is becoming a [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]], that's still pretty bad. Because an extremist by his or her very nature can't see when too far is too far. The Doctor is becoming blinkered, and whether he starts off with good intentions or not, that can have terrible consequences. Because good intentions by themselves don't mean a damn thing; it's what the end consequence is, and the end consequence here is, well, as mentioned above a woman is driven to commit suicide. When your first supposed glorious triumph ends with a woman killing herself, it's hard to see how that bodes well for the future, or how any amount of good intentions makes that okay.<br /><br />Thirdly, the Doctor does not just become 'a bit arrogant'. That's an understatement if ever there was one. It's very quietly done, but he essentially decides that being the last Time Lord means he's ''unquestionable lord and master of all of time and space''. That he can do whatever he wants, even fundamentally alter history itself and change the fabric of the universe to suit his will, and if anyone doesn't like it? "Tough." "That's for me to decide." (Yeah, those are direct quotes from him when someone challenges him about all this. Should tell you everything you you need to know about the mindset of the Time Lord Victorious towards people with dissenting viewpoints). Anyone -- even the Doctor -- both having that kind of power and deciding to use it, quite frankly, a ''fucking horrific idea''. Adelaide is right; no one should have that kind of power or try to use it. Because ''no one can be trusted with it.'' Not even the Doctor. There's a reason people ''also'' say "power corrupts".<br /><br />Fourthly, know who else thinks and sounds like this? The Master. Yeah, the guy who's tried to take over the universe a few times (and oh yeah, once destroyed a huge chunk of it trying to do so) because (a) he's completely nuts and (b) he thinks it'd be better with him in charge. The guy who the Doctor's spent most of the series, old and new, opposing on general principle. When the Doctor starts thinking and talking and acting like one of his oldest enemies? That's not a good thing.<br /><br />Fifthly, what makes all of this horrifying (and where I suspect the point is being missed)? As the OP points out, when he's doing all of this, the Doctor's not that different from what he usually does and how he usually acts. But the crucial thing is, he's clearly crossed a line. Yes, he saves lives, but there's a difference between saving lives because it's the right thing to do and saving lives because you want to make the universe and everyone in it your bitch and let everyone know that "I'm the winner!" -- the former is admirable, the latter is kind of monstrous, particularly since it's heavily implied that the Doctor is just doing this because he's terrified of his own impending death and wants to prove that he can change it if he wants, not out of any genuine benevolence. There's a different between flaunting the fact that you're the cleverest person in the room and deciding that everyone -- except for a few people who happen to impress you -- are "little people" who aren't really that important. Who the fuck is the Doctor to decide who's meaningful and who's a 'little person'? There's a difference between boasting a bit about how good you are and calling ''yourself'' something like "the Time Lord Victorious" -- and seriously, people, that's the kind of thing ''supervillains and mad dictators'' call themselves. If you're giving yourself a name that [[Josef Stalin]] or Kim Jung Il would have happily given themselves if they'd gotten the opportunity, you might want to rethink things. The point being, the Doctor's clearly gone from being a lovably arrogant know-it-all to someone who thinks he knows best for the entire universe. That can't end well.<br /><br />Sixthly; '''''it doesn't end well.''''' ''That's'' the point. Not that the Doctor's gone evil, but that his arrogance and hubris has had terrible consequences. And the key redeeming thing about it is that the Doctor ''realises'' this. He realises he's gone too far, that whether Adelaide could have lived and inspired the future or whether '''TIME ITSELF''' interfered to kill Adelaide, he's let himself get out of control and that a good person has suffered and died -- and worse, taken her own life -- because of him. That for all his good intentions, for all that he dismissed Yuri and Mia, the irony is that they get to live and the big prize he was after, the reason he was all so glowy and triumphant and smug? Is dead anyway. His arrogance has resulted in exactly the same thing he set out to prevent happening (and remember, he ''wasn't interested in the slightest'' about saving Mia and Yuri when it came down to it, they were just the 'little people' he happened to catch as well), only it's worse now because it's directly his fault that it happened. And really, it all comes back to point 1 -- for all the arguments we can have about whether the future would or could have been the same if Adelaide had lived or died, ultimately, the Doctor's arrogance led to a woman deciding to kill herself. Even if nothing else, ''that's'' why it's bad. Firstly, if nothing else, unintentionally or not the Doctor ''drives a woman to commit suicide''. We can go backwards and forwards and quibble about whether Adelaide could have inspired her granddaughter in person or whether the future would have been the same or different, or whether she did it to spite him or whether she did it to teach him a lesson or whether she did it because she was broken by the uncertainty the Doctor's actions directly contributed or what her motives were. But fact remains, the Doctor's actions directly contributed towards Adelaide deciding to take her own life. That's pretty bad all by it's lonesome, and not just because it makes what he did 'less of a triumph'. Not surprising that people would take a dim view of the Doctor there. Secondly, cliche or not, there's a reason that people say "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". People have gone on to do terrible things having started out with good intentions. The Doctor might not become evil (although I don't believe anyone is saying that he is) and he might not do so overnight, but good intentions or not, he is putting himself on a path that can lead to him committing great evil. Because even if 'all' he's doing is becoming a [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]], that's still pretty bad. Because an extremist by his or her very nature can't see when too far is too far. The Doctor is becoming blinkered, and whether he starts off with good intentions or not, that can have terrible consequences. Because good intentions by themselves don't mean a damn thing; it's what the end consequence is, and the end consequence here is, well, as mentioned above a woman is driven to commit suicide. When your first supposed glorious triumph ends with a woman killing herself, it's hard to see how that bodes well for the future, or how any amount of good intentions makes that okay. Thirdly, the Doctor does not just become 'a bit arrogant'. That's an understatement if ever there was one. It's very quietly done, but he essentially decides that being the last Time Lord means he's ''unquestionable lord and master of all of time and space''. That he can do whatever he wants, even fundamentally alter history itself and change the fabric of the universe to suit his will, and if anyone doesn't like it? "Tough." "That's for me to decide." (Yeah, those are direct quotes from him when someone challenges him about all this. Should tell you everything you you need to know about the mindset of the Time Lord Victorious towards people with dissenting viewpoints). Anyone—even the Doctor—both having that kind of power and deciding to use it, quite frankly, a ''fucking horrific idea''. Adelaide is right; no one should have that kind of power or try to use it. Because ''no one can be trusted with it.'' Not even the Doctor. There's a reason people ''also'' say "power corrupts". Fourthly, know who else thinks and sounds like this? The Master. Yeah, the guy who's tried to take over the universe a few times (and oh yeah, once destroyed a huge chunk of it trying to do so) because (a) he's completely nuts and (b) he thinks it'd be better with him in charge. The guy who the Doctor's spent most of the series, old and new, opposing on general principle. When the Doctor starts thinking and talking and acting like one of his oldest enemies? That's not a good thing. Fifthly, what makes all of this horrifying (and where I suspect the point is being missed)? As the OP points out, when he's doing all of this, the Doctor's not that different from what he usually does and how he usually acts. But the crucial thing is, he's clearly crossed a line. Yes, he saves lives, but there's a difference between saving lives because it's the right thing to do and saving lives because you want to make the universe and everyone in it your bitch and let everyone know that "I'm the winner!"—the former is admirable, the latter is kind of monstrous, particularly since it's heavily implied that the Doctor is just doing this because he's terrified of his own impending death and wants to prove that he can change it if he wants, not out of any genuine benevolence. There's a different between flaunting the fact that you're the cleverest person in the room and deciding that everyone—except for a few people who happen to impress you—are "little people" who aren't really that important. Who the fuck is the Doctor to decide who's meaningful and who's a 'little person'? There's a difference between boasting a bit about how good you are and calling ''yourself'' something like "the Time Lord Victorious"—and seriously, people, that's the kind of thing ''supervillains and mad dictators'' call themselves. If you're giving yourself a name that [[Josef Stalin]] or Kim Jung Il would have happily given themselves if they'd gotten the opportunity, you might want to rethink things. The point being, the Doctor's clearly gone from being a lovably arrogant know-it-all to someone who thinks he knows best for the entire universe. That can't end well. Sixthly; '''''it doesn't end well.''''' ''That's'' the point. Not that the Doctor's gone evil, but that his arrogance and hubris has had terrible consequences. And the key redeeming thing about it is that the Doctor ''realises'' this. He realises he's gone too far, that whether Adelaide could have lived and inspired the future or whether '''TIME ITSELF''' interfered to kill Adelaide, he's let himself get out of control and that a good person has suffered and died—and worse, taken her own life—because of him. That for all his good intentions, for all that he dismissed Yuri and Mia, the irony is that they get to live and the big prize he was after, the reason he was all so glowy and triumphant and smug? Is dead anyway. His arrogance has resulted in exactly the same thing he set out to prevent happening (and remember, he ''wasn't interested in the slightest'' about saving Mia and Yuri when it came down to it, they were just the 'little people' he happened to catch as well), only it's worse now because it's directly his fault that it happened. And really, it all comes back to point 1 -- for all the arguments we can have about whether the future would or could have been the same if Adelaide had lived or died, ultimately, the Doctor's arrogance led to a woman deciding to kill herself. Even if nothing else, ''that's'' why it's bad. ~~<!-- %%% -->~~ ~~<!-- %%Dreamland -->~~ ~~<!-- %%% -->~~ == The End of Time == * What crime did Lucy Saxon end up in prison for, considering that the previous timeline where the Master rules the Earth no longer existed? It would really depend how evidence of Saxon's misdoings still existed. If there is no evidence of the Master's plot to take over the world, then she is in prison for murder of a head of state, quite serious. If there is evidence left over that the Prime Minister was planning world domination using mind control and allying himself with a hostile "alien" race, then being married to the man isn't a crime, and she would be at most charged with Manslaughter and would be a hero for stopping it in any case. Even in the latter case, what evidence existed that she was involved in her husband's plot? She could just say that she didn't know anything was out of the ordinary. Wait, did the killing of the President of the United States still happen? Line 145 ⟶ 155: Well that IS kind of what Ten discusses with Wilf in the cafe. I mean, a 'new man goes sauntering away'... like he doesn't even care about what he did a moment before, it's all like it never was, and ''that's'' why regeneration feels like dying. Stopped the scene being so amusing for me TBH. I thought, from all the laughing and giggling, that he wasa bit crazy at the moment, and wouldn't really be thinking straight. Regeneration's a traditionally destabilizing process; presumably he was a bit more concerned with making sure he had all the required parts and didn't die crashing (and if we're talking [[Jerkass]] behaviour, I'm sure if we flipped the situation around Eleven could probably have some choice words to say about Ten's self-indulgence and over-dramatic angst resulting in the fact that Eleven was now starting his new life in a death-dive) than angsting about his last self's death. In all seriousness, I'm not sure that going too far down this rabbit hole will be wise, since pretty much ''every'' Doctor who's just regenerated has at at least one moment where he's all but gone "God I'm glad I'm now me, and not that last version of me; he was the ''worst''..." Particularly since Ten was equally chipper after he technically 'murdered' ~~Nine -- what~~Nine—what a sod. * ''Murdered'' him? Not saying that the regenerations couldn't be nicer about the previous selves, but isn't that a bit like blaming a newborn for a mother who died in childbirth? **** Tongue, meet cheek. I wasn't being entirely serious there. Although considering that the OP is asking why Eleven isn't feeling 'remorse' (suggesting guilt rather than simply sorrow)... Line 205 ⟶ 215: * In "The End of Time," when Gallifrey starts to materialize, it looks to be about ten times the size of Earth. That means that Time Lords must have much stronger muscles than we do if they're able to walk and stand up and so on normally. Now given how much time the Doctor spends on Earth, it's easy to imagine that he decided it would be worth his while to train his muscles to exert only a fraction of their strength so he could move normally in a lower gravity; but, like Superman or John Carter of Mars, he should retain the ability to use his full strength whenever the situation calls for a very high or long jump, or something. We saw the Master jump around like he was on the moon for a bit, but we've seen many more times when the Doctor and other Time Lords seem as bound by Earth gravity as humans are. The only other explanation (and this works only for the Doctor) is that he's spent so much time in Earth-like gravity (on the TARDIS and almost every planet he visits, his human companions get along just fine) that his muscles have atrophied to the point where Earth gravity is all they can handle; in which case going to Gallifrey would cripple him, at least while he was on the planet. Not an issue these days, since Gallifrey's not there anymore, but as recently as the end of the 1996 movie returns to Gallifrey occurred regularly. Also, Time Lord bones must be much, much denser than human bones, or they'd be shorter than Sontarans. I can't think offhand of the Doctor ever having broken a bone, can anyone else? Not necessarily, gravity goes by mass, not volume. Well yes it's logical to assume that a bigger planet has more mass, the fact that Gallifrey is bigger then Earth, yet all evidence says it's has Earth like gravity, means we can only assume that Gallifrey's mantle and/or core is much, much less dense the Earth's resulting in the two planets having roughly equivalent mass. * I had thought that, but Galifrey is a terrestrial planet the size of a gas giant. It looked to be about the size of Saturn, maybe a little smaller, and gravity on Saturn is far greater than ~~Earth--and~~Earth—and would be greater still if Saturn were a terrestrial planet; those are much denser than jovian planets because they contain a greater proportion of heavy elements. If there's any doubt of that, look at just how many odds and ends we see Time Lords use are made from metal; if Gallifrey were significantly less dense than Saturn, it would have almost no metal and the Time Lords would use it extremely sparingly. (Though I suppose they could mine it from other planets or asteroids or moons, but not until they'd managed to get into space in the first place.) * Gas giant? Saturn!? Unless you're pulling this from somewhere other than what we SEE in The End of Time, that's patently ridiculous. Saturn's easily ten or fifteen times larger than Gallifrey, if not moreso! (Also, Gallifrey barely looks more than three or four times larger than the Earth, but that's neither here nor there) * Two things. One: judging for what we see in the episode, Gallifrey is nowhere near the size of Saturn. Saturn has about 9 times Earth's radius. Gallifrey seems only about three Earth's radius, that will make it, knowing volume increases with the cube of the radius and asuming identical density, 3^3 = 27 times as masive as Earth. Two: Surface gravity not only depends on mass but also on radius, because a greater radius means you are standing a greater distance from the center of mass, and if you remember high school physics, gravity equals the product of the masses divided by the distance squared. So, three times more radius means nine times less gravity. This makes Saturn surface gravity, contrary to popular belief, a bit LOWER than earth's because it has a big radius and a very low density (even Jupiter's is only two and a half that of Earth, not the tens or hundreds of times most people believes). Concluding, gravity in the surface of the Gallifrey we see in the episode would be 27/9 = 3 Gs tops, and that assuming Earth's density. If we allow for half the density of Earth, it would be reduced to 1.5 Gs . This would make it only a little less dense than Mars, so it's not an impossible density for a rocky planet, not sure how much iron would you find on its crust though, less than on Earth for sure, but maybe enough for Timelords necesities. And a gravity 50% percent higher would be unconfortable but not bonecrushing for someone acostumed to earthlike gravity. Line 219 ⟶ 229: I personally think it took at least a day, since he had to do a lot of research first. Figure out where everyone is, determine a nice way of helping them out, plan out the actual helping process, and finally execute the helping. He probably released flying time monkeys at least once, incidentally: there's not really any way of knowing about Luke and the car without previously observing the event. Noticing the Sontaran may have required similar time travelling, or just plenty of running. * The TARDIS is alive though, and if you believe the theory that it knowingly takes the Doctor to points where he's needed, it may have chosen those points in time of its own accord. * ~~Or--you~~Or—you're forgetting those TV-like things that allow you to watch historical events. They cropped up once or twice during the First Doctor's era, I haven't seen them anywhere/anywhen else but they could very well still be around. He could've found out about stuff that way. The Doctor ''should'' have died almost instantly from this particular radiation, since all the facial wounds vanish due to regeneration immediately after he gets irradiated. The regeneration had started, which means the radiation had killed him already, essentially. The real question becomes "why did the regeneration take forty minutes to reach ultra-explody glowyness, and why was the Doctor outwardly unharmed by the radiation until the very end of that scene?" *** Time Lords do have a certain amount of control over their regenerations (the Master was able to stop his and Romana could seemingly choose her new appearance). It's possible that the Doctor "held it in" for a while, releasing enough energy to heal his wounds and keep him stable while he said his goodbyes, and then released it all in one big burst. It'd also explain why this regeneration had enough energy to completely trash the TARDIS. Line 264 ⟶ 274: [[Category:Doctor Who 2009 Specials]] [[Category:Headscratchers]] ~~__NOTOC__[[Category:Pages with comment tags]]~~ [[Category:Doctor Who]]