Dungeons & Dragons/YMMV: Difference between revisions
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==== Monk ====
* [[Tier
==== Paladin ====
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==== Crusader ====
* [[Base Breaker]]: By virtue of being a Tome of Battle class.
==== Divine Mind ====
* [[Tier
==== Erudite ====
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==== Healer ====
* [[Tier
** [[Rescued
==== Incarnate ====
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==== Lurk ====
* [[Tier
==== Psion / Psionicist ====
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==== Samurai ====
* [[Tier
** The Lawful over Good trait was another [[Sarcasm Mode|''popular'' class feature]].
*** Even worse: A [[TW Fing]] Ranger outclasses a Complete Warrior Samurai. At least the Oriental Adventures one was decent!
==== Shadowcaster ====
* [[Tier
==== Soulborn ====
* [[Tier
==== Soulknife ====
* [[Tier
** Also, see Samurai, "less options". Having the Whirlwind Attack feat without the [[Awesome Yet Impractical|ridiculous prerequisites]] is neat, though.
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== 4th Edition Classes ==
==== Battlemind ====
* [[Tier
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* [[Complete Monster]]: Pretty much all of the [[Demon Lords and Archdevils|Demon Lords]]. Special mention goes to [[Scary Spiders|Lolth]].
** Graz'zt is the [[Faux Affably Evil]] demon lord of hedonism and other such things (and somewhat appropriately keeps a large slave harem), and runs an empire that basically revolves around torture and slavery. Demogorgon is an [[Ax Crazy]] maniac. Orcus is a god wannabe who wants to turn the afterlife into hell [[For the Evulz]]. They're all pretty much the same.
** Chaotic evil dragons come across as somewhat more evil than the lawful evil ones. Blue and green dragons, for all their faults, [[Even Evil Has Loved Ones|genuinely care about their mates and offspring]] (well, usually). The same cannot be said for black, white and red dragons.
* [[Ensemble Darkhorse]]: Meepo the Kobold in 3rd Edition. This little lizard-dude, originally just a kill-it-for-stuff encounter in the adventure ''The Sunless Citadel'', was so popular that he made an appearance as an NPC in at least one other adventure, featured in a web-exclusive article in which he became a [[Ninja Pirate Zombie Robot|half-dragon were-velociraptor]], and got whisked away to [[
** As far as races go, the [[Mechanical Lifeforms|Warforged]] from ''[[Eberron]]'' were '''very''' well received. The [[Beast Man|Shifters]] were also well-liked, but not as much as the Warforged.
*** As a matter of fact, these two races ([[And Zoidberg|and Changelings]]) were put in as monsters in the first 4E Monster Manual, and Shifters were introduced as a playable race in the second 4e Player's Handbook. Warforged were made playable in any setting thanks to a free(!) Dragon article on Wizards' official site.
* [[Hilarious in Hindsight]]: The complaints about 4th Edition playing like a video game certainly won't get any better when the corebooks have a playable race called the [[The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim|Dragonborn]].
* [[Magnificent Bastard]]: Asmodeus, most notably. Grazz't, Dagon and Pazuzu also count.
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** Certain builds were able to incur ''trillions'' of damage in one attack, at range. One low-level spell with a specific combination of metamagic feats would raze anything and everything in a 10-mile radius to the ground. And then there's Pun-Pun, a level ''one'' kobold with inifinite stats who can reach infinitely far, including across the planes, and can cast any and every spell an infinite number of times per day. Did I mention this kobold is more of a god (infinite divine ranks) than the actual gods?
** Essentials. Not in-and-of themselves, mind you, and not so much if you're in an all-Essentials group, but consider the following. Prior to the release of Essentials, basic attacks were just that, basic. They were usually the weakest hitting things for damage dealers, and didn't have all the cool effects other powers did. Thus, classes such as Bards, Warlords and the like which gave out basic attacks like candy would only marginally influence the tide of battle. Now enter the Essentials, which are based around improving or replacing basic attacks: [[BFS|Slayers]] that wield 2-handed weapons that deal as much as 4 weapon damage on a single basic attack; [[Dual-Wielding|Scouts]] that get granted one melee attack and are suddenly making 3 or more of them; latter additions give us Vampires that effectively become unkillable as long as they keep hitting, and the Bladesinger that adds a burst of various magical damage each time he hits. Yikes.
* [[Tier
** Complete Warrior Samurai deserves special mention in that is the absolute lowest Tier. In original outline of the various Tiers, CW Samurai is so low that it is actually ranked lower than Expert, an NPC-only class with versatile skill selection and ''no class features.'' There is literally nothing that a Samurai can do that a Fighter (already considered one of the lowest tiered classes) cannot do better ''while simultaneously doing many other things better than the Samurai.''
** Most of the Far-East themed classes from the ''Complete'' series were this way. Shugenja had ''incredibly'' limited spell selection to the point that the player chose very little of his character's core abilities. The fact that they were Divine casters (and thus able to cast in armor) was negated by their lack of armor proficiency and by having the worst Base Attack Bonus in the game (for comparison, most Divine casters get the medium Base Attack and medium or heavy armor proficiency). Wu Jen had weaker casting than wizards, and their "Spell Secret" class feature left them [[Blessed
*** ''[[Beyond the Impossible|Every freaking class in the 5e playtest]]'' is subject to his. [[The Medic|Clerics]] have been reduced to useless healbots, and [[Fragile Speedster|Rogues]] and [[Mighty Glacier|Fighters]] have been made completely and utterly worthless. Wizards are the high-tier version of this trope since they're ''the only ones who actually can survive a fight''. Apparently, the reason Wizards are so over-powered in the playtest is because Mike Mearls encourages the [[Fandom Rivalry]] between close combat classes and spell-slinging classes when he claimed "fighters are for morons, Wizards are for smart players."
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* [[Broken Base]]: The edition war between 3rd and 4th editions. While there were some changeover gripes between 2nd and 3rd, this edition war has reached [[Internet Backdraft]] levels, possibly simply due to the availability of the Internet and the increased popularity of the system. Also the setting issue, where assorted players have flame wars over pointless gripes such as whether Eberron's [[Dungeon Punk]] setting is bad or not.
** And, more recently after WOTC released a new set of core books called "Essentials", there is a heavy flame war between people who like "pre-E" D&D and those who like "post-E". The former group tends to call this new set "4.5", the latter gets positively enraged at seeing this number.
** And with [http://
*** They already have: Fans of 3E are [[And the Fandom Rejoiced|rejoicing over 5E]], while fans of 4E are crying [[Ruined FOREVER]] at the return of [[Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards]].
*** [[It Got Worse]]: Many of the rules just ''don't make any goddamn sense'' in the playtest, such as having to roll ''36 hit dice for a rat swarm because the game treats each rat as an individual monster''. And remember [[Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards]]? Well, let's just say the problem's '''worse than ever''': Rogues and Fighters are absolutely worthless and Clerics have been reduced to healbots. The kicker? [[Game Breaker|Wizards can do everything better than all the other classes combined]]. A lot of longtime fans who have accepted the move to 4E hate the playtest as well, and even some 4E haters are crying out that Wizards seems to have taken only the ''worst'' parts of all the previous editions to make the game. About the only reason the base is broken over it is because of 4E's [[Hate Dumb]] loving it blindly without even caring about how badly-designed the game is.
* [[Complaining About Shows You Don't Watch|Complaining About Games You Don't Play]]: Considering that this is a game with its rules spread across as many as six different editions, with extra supplements for almost anything, a monthly publication that provided extra rules and modules, and that this is a gaming hobby where most people internalise the identity of the game they love, it's very common to find people complaining about whole editions of the game they've never played, never read, or in some cases, never heard of outside of the complaints of others. In the information age, the most noticeable version of this is the reaction to 4th Edition's latest extra rules supplements, but it goes back further than that. Especially given how complex some rules supplements are, it's pretty much inevitable that people will disallow some based on no '''actual''' play experience. This can make it awfully awkward to deal with legitimate concerns about any particular part of the game, since there's a lot of backdraft over disliking things other people like.
* [[Fan Nickname|Detractor Nickname]]: "D&Done" for "One D&D" emerged near instantly after its announcement and gained rapid acceptance once its horrific OGL "revision" appeared.
* [[Fandom Rivalry]]: Some fans of weapon-using classes (I.E. Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Barbarian, Paladin and Monk) don't get along with some fans of magic-using classes (I.E. Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Bard, Druid and Warlock). [[Trolling Creator|Mike Mearls]] encourages this.
* [[Fanon Discontinuity]]: ''Every'' edition has inspired [[Fanon Discontinuity]]. There is still a very vocal 2nd Edition fanbase that despises the changes wrought in the transition to 3rd, and not a few 1st Edition holdouts who consider 2nd to be a bastardization, and a handful of hardcore grognards who think 1st Edition should never have supplanted "classic" D&D (called it 0E [Zero-E]). The 4th edition gets it the most, and most fans couldn't stand the new alignment system. [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks|Players naturally gravitate towards the things that make them more comfortable]]. Of course, it's not like the books stop working when a new edition comes out, and any really cemented group is going to have lots of house rules anyway, so it's natural that players will remain players, even when they stop buying the new material.
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* [[Internet Backdraft]]: Just try to say anything against or in favor of 4th Edition on a D&D forum, only do so if you have a death wish. Starting an argument against or for a particular setting is also ill-advised.
* [[Paranoia Fuel]]: So wait, most (if not all) of the stars are Eldritch Abominations that want to eat us? And some of them can create avatars of their powers called Star Spawn?
* [[Retcon]]:
* [[Spiritual Licensee]]: [[Krull]] was ''going'' to be an official D&D movie, but lost the license partway through development.
* [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]]: It has happened for every edition change. Some might argue that 4E most of all, but veteran D&D players would point out that it only seems that way due to the much wider availability of the Internet. Interesting to note is that this is now happening WITHIN 4th Edition itself. Wizards has started to release errata/updates every few months, usually to stop overpowered exploits (although sometimes for other purposes too). Naturally, people have either declared it to be the best thing since sliced bread, or threatened to stop playing D&D. And with a new edition in the works, expect to see this ''yet again!''
* [[Unfortunate Implications]]: You have your elves. They're Usually [[Chaotic Good]]. Then you have your Drow. They're evil and black and the women are in charge. [[
* [[What Measure Is a Non-Badass?]]: 4th edition is very much geared towards heroic fantasy with the default assumption that the character is a badass, to the extent that it is mechanically difficult to create a character who is actually ''bad'' in an ability (as against 'average'). Likewise you can't really model an entirely green character who has picked up a sword for the first time as even a level 1 character can call upon fairly formidable powers.
{{reflist}}
[[Category:YMMV]]
[[Category:{{TOPLEVELPAGE}}]]
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