He Who Fights Monsters: Difference between revisions

Not to be confused with [[Complete Monster]], although somebody can become this by fighting complete monsters. See also [[Cycle of Revenge]], [[Protagonist Journey to Villain]], [[You Are What You Hate]], and [[Then Let Me Be Evil]]. If this trope happens to a child, it can be used as a [[Freudian Excuse]]. Compare [[And Then John Was a Zombie]], where the character becomes a literal monster. [[If You Kill Him You Will Be Just Like Him]] is pretty much a sped-up version of this. Common in politics, as [[Reign of Terror]], [[Full-Circle Revolution]] and [[Meet the New Boss]] indicate. If the monster in question is an animal, that's [[Animal Nemesis]]. Subtrope of [[Slowly Slipping Into Evil]].

 

 

{{examples}}

* In ''[[Mahou Sensei Negima]]'', Haruna identifies {{spoiler|Kurt Godel}} as being [http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahou_sensei_negima/v30/c270/15.html one of these]. He ''was'' an undeniable good guy as a kid, only to grow up into a completely manipulative jerkass little better than his enemy.

** In a flashback, Tsuruko uses the page quote as part of a lecture to a young Setsuna when showing her the [[Evil Weapon|Youto Hina]].

* Even after his semi-[[Heel Face Turn]], Accelerator in ''[[A Certain Magical Index]]'' will mercilessly kill anyone who harms innocents, or even worse, try to harm {{spoiler|Last Order or any of the Misaka clones}}. Granted, he calls himself a villain despite saving innocents, since he knows his rather violent methods are not "heroic", especially compared to Touma, the one Accelerator who fits "the hero" type.

* In his first appearance in ''[[Kirby Right Back At Ya]]'', Knuckle Joe was consumed by hatred in his quest to get revenge on the Star Warrior who killed his dad. This led him to do terrible things, such as trying to kill poor Kirby who wouldn't even fight back. Then cue the appearance of Meta Knight, who reveals that he was the one who killed his father and [[You Monster!|calls him a Demon Beast/monster for the awful acts he committed, as well as his abandoning of reason]]. This was the perfect opportunity for [[Complete Monster|Nightmare]], who later turned Joe into a monster that could fire spikes at the cute pink spud. See? Not all monsters are made by Nightmare himself - it's also possible to become one by abandoning reason rather than listen to it as well as living only by hatred.

 

* [[Batman]]'s greatest fear is that he will become this, if he hasn't already. In fact, this is the way many other heroes see him, and they are not entirely wrong ([[Depending on the Writer|depending on who's writing him]]).

** It's also why Batman so strictly adheres to [[Thou Shalt Not Kill]]: having that as a [[The Fettered|line that he]] ''[[The Fettered|never]]'' [[The Fettered|crosses]] is a [[Jumping Off the Slippery Slope|barrier to slipping over the edge]] and becoming as much of a monster as the psychos he fights.

** It only skirts this if you assume that he isn't trying to justify his becoming this and was telling the truth. Orion states that he tried to make Apokolips a better place. The residents couldn't handle freedom. This forced Orion to become more like Darkseid in order to keep the population under control.

* In ''Harry Kipling (Deceased)'', the [[Flat Earth Atheist|New Atheist Militia]] is inspired by Kipling's example and sets about killing gods - by [[Complete Monster|committing genocide]] [[Gods Need Prayer Badly|against their followers]]. In fact, their denial is so intense and fanatical that it manifests as what Kipling describes as an 'anti-god', and the NAM is as trapped by their own anti-god as the believers are by their deities.

 

== [[Fan Works]] ==

* One criticism of ''[[The Open Door]]'' is that while the Necrons are [[Omnicidal Maniac]]s, the nominal [[Sliding Scale of Anti-Heroes|Type V]] [[Anti-Hero|Anti Heroes]]/[[Villain Protagonist]]s are themselves highly culturally and militarily aggressive. Their aspiration to and failure to achieve [[The Unfettered]] status only serves to blacken their image further, [[Your Mileage May Vary|in the eyes of some]].

* A central theme in ''[[Avatar: The Last Airbender Revised]]'' is preventing oneself from succumbing to He Who Fights Monsters by only killing when absolute necessary. This is present primarily in Katara's character arc, although it fits into those of others as well. A paraphrase of Nietzsche's quote is used as the [[Arc Words]] for the first three books to reflect this.

* ''[[Ponies Make War]]'': After Twilight Sparkle is freed from [[Super-Powered Evil Side|Nihilus']] control {{spoiler|and her mind [[Split Personality|splits in two]]}}, she<ref>or rather, her dominant personality, Sparkle,</ref> becomes an [[Actual Pacifist]], as she fears that this trope will come into play—she was [[And I Must Scream|forced to watch]] Nihilus perform countless acts of violence and torture [[For the Evulz]], and is afraid that if she starts fighting those responsible for her transformation, [[Blood Knight|she'll start enjoying it]]. {{spoiler|When [[Big Bad|Titan's]] torture causes her mind to [[Nice Job Fixing It, Villain|fuse back together]], she realizes she was being foolish -- she is ''nothing'' like Nihilus, and she will ''never'' let herself sink so low. Cue asskicking.}}

 

* Knockout Ned from ''[[City of God]]'' slowly turns into this after his girlfriend was raped and his house was shot up.

* Played with in the movie ''[[Ravenous]]''. The villain gained power through cannibalism and the only way the protagonist can fight him is by partaking in cannibalism himself.

* ''[[Batman: Mask of the Phantasm]]'': Alfred also refers to the Nietzschian quote.

{{quote|'''Alfred:''' Vengeance blackens the soul, Bruce. I've always feared that you would become that which you fought against. You walk the edge of that abyss every night, but you haven't fallen in and I thank heaven for that. }}

* ''[[Batman: Under the Red Hood]]'', like ''Phantasm'', examines this Trope.

* {{spoiler|Two-Face}} in ''[[The Dark Knight Saga]]'' goes so far as to [[Foreshadowing]] this with a line similar to Nietzsche's.

{{quote|'''{{spoiler|Two-Face}}:''' You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.}}

{{quote|"You make the kill. But your pain doesn't die with Harvey, it grows. So you run out into the night to find another face, and another, and another... until one terrible morning, you wake up and realize that revenge has become your whole life. And you won't know why."}}

* In ''[[Natural Born Killers]]'', serial-killer-obsessed Jack Scagnetti, who is tracking the film's [[Villain Protagonist]] duo, eventually {{spoiler|murders a prostitute to get an idea of the thrill of killing}}.

* Van Zan from ''[[Reign of Fire]]'' will do anything necessary to bring down the male dragon, including press-ganging members of Quinn's homestead when not enough of them volunteer.

* ''[[Star Wars]]'': ''[[The Empire Strikes Back]]'': the Darth Vader with the face of Luke Skywalker inside the dark side infested cave of Dagobah is Yoda's warning that Luke can become [[Not So Different|a monster just like Vader]] should he give in to the dark side, no matter the reasons.

{{quote|'''Yoda:''' If you choose the quick and easier path as Vader did, you will become an agent of evil, and the galaxy will plunge into the abyss of hate and despair.}}

* Magneto in ''[[X-Men: First Class]]'' notes that he and Shaw are exactly the same and admits that he would work with him...except that Shaw killed his mother. And that's the only reason he's going to kill him, not to save humanity or stop Shaw's plans.

* ''[[Star Trek: First Contact]]'': Picard is so blinded by rage and vengeance that he becomes as cold and unsympathetic as the enemy he's fighting, to the point of alienating (heh) his officers and refusing to consider the plan that represents their best chance of success.

* ''[[Serenity]]'': The Operative is fully aware that in his quest to kill monsters he's fallen into this, and states that on his list of monsters, he's right there at the bottom of the list and will kill himself when he's done.

* Tyler Durden of ''[[Fight Club (film)|Fight Club]]''. By the end, he's shaped his group to be just as conformist as the consumerist society he's trying to overthrow, and in some cases, it's even worse.

 

* As mentioned in film section above, Willie Stark from ''[[All the King's Men]]'' becomes the kind of politician he once meant to oppose.

* Bartemius Crouch, Sr. from ''[[Harry Potter (novel)|Harry Potter]]'', the head Auror (dark wizard fighter) during the first Wizard War, was later depicted as "having become almost as bad as those he was fighting", authorizing torture and the use of lethal force.

* ''Sisterhood'' series by [[Fern Michaels]]: The Vigilantes are a group of women and one man who have been wronged in a number of ways. They decided to get [[Revenge]] on those who wronged them. That's right, they're not really pretending to be doing this for justice! They definitely have this happen to them in ''Vendetta'' by skinning John Chai alive. He was a creep and a [[Smug Snake]], but the [[Disproportionate Retribution]] inflicted on him caused the group to sink to his level! To make things even creepier, the author consistently portraying Revenge as a good thing with no bad effects, the author consistently trying to make the protagonists seem good and heroic despite their actions saying otherwise really sabotage the series!

 

* One episode of ''[[The X-Files]]'' featured [[The Profiler|an FBI agent who became so obsessed with "getting into the head" of a serial killer that he was chasing]] that he soon turned evil and began murdering people in a manner similar to that used by the serial killer.

** [Broken Pedestal|This was Mulder's former boss, and Mulder wound up having to stop him]].

* On ''[[NCIS]]'', Eli David, Ziva's father, is pretty obviously this. Though not a [[Complete Monster]] he has crossed the [[Moral Event Horizon]] a number of times. And it is obvious that he does so because of his determination to protect his people against vicious enemies.

** Jenny Shepherd is this about Rene Benoit.

* ''[[The Mentalist]]'': Patrick Jane is so much this when it comes to Red John. The show even goes so far as to hang a lampshade on it in the season 3 episode, "Red Moon:"

{{quote|'''Jane:''' I have spent enough time with that creep. Staring into the abyss--you know, it's not healthy.}}

* ''[[Robot Chicken]]'' does an extrapolation of ''[[Revenge of the Nerds]]'' and points out how what the Nerds do is worse that what was done to them, and that what they did was in fact illegal.

* [[Space: Above and Beyond]] gives us Col. Ray Butts, who apparently was born mean and became meaner from being a Marine lifer—he's racist against [[In Vitros]], picks pointless fights with the Wildcards, antagonizes McQueen by taking the squad away from him for a mission he won't explain to anyone, and changes mission parameters mid-mission, again without any sort of explanation. It gets to the point where the squad briefly wonders if he might have killed his previous squad members when they fight a dead marine's body on the planet. {{spoiler|the squad was actually killed by chigs when they wanted to wait for reinforcements--causing Butts to leave them in disgust to do the mission on his own}}

 

* [[Bob Dylan]]'s "My Back Pages":

{{quote|''In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand

''back into your SOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUL'' }}

 

* In ''[[Warhammer 40,000]]'', The Nighthaunter's backstory is made of this trope. Since he's the grimdark version of [[Batman]], what can you expect?

** Also: Radical Inquisitors, Commander Farsight some of the time...40K is the only game where even the ''[[Complete Monster|monsters]]'' can succumb to this trope.

* ''[[Forgotten Realms]]'' has an elven god, [http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shevarash Shevarash], dedicated to nothing more than hatred and vengeance to Lolth and drow (though he readily beats anything [[Exclusively Evil]] in the absence of drow targets). Aside of other traits "endearing" to Seldarine and other "good guys", he's a little too close to the [[Big Bad|main, local, dark deity]] who makes Lolth look like a nice and caring mom by contrast. Elves who aren't immediately endangered and don't desire vengeance aren't too enthusiastic about his followers either. "The holy symbol of the faith is a broken arrowshaft that has been dipped in drow blood and blessed by a priest of Shevarash." (''Demihuman Deities'')

** Another aspect is that while Shevarash himself considers other Underdark threats and theoretically is at peace with Eilistraee, his followers, obviously, seek vengeance for personal reasons—and they swear to "never smile until the last drow is dead" without getting into more specifics. There even was short story ''Necessary Sacrifices'' (in Realms of the Elves) about these fine People going over the top even in the eyes of a fresh convert.

** Similarly, in ''[[Hunter: The Reckoning]]'', Hunters with very high Virtue ratings may become obsessed with that Virtue. Zealots (including Avengers, Defenders, and Judges) are particularly likely to become [[Ax Crazy]] and tolerant of collateral damage.

** One of the subtler risks in ''[[Changeling: The Lost]]'', for many reasons considered the ''bleakest'' of the [[New World of Darkness]] games. As a Changeling's Wyrd (power meter, roughly akin to, say, [[Vampire: The Requiem|Blood Potency]]) goes up, they remember their time in [[Arcadia]] more and more clearly. This is, in and of itself, frightening, but not dangerous. If their [[Karma Meter|Clarity]] hits zero, though... {{spoiler|they lose their grip on reality entirely and proceed to adopt the same [[Blue and Orange Morality]] as the True Fae, which is quickly followed by losing all traces of humanity and ''becoming'' a new member of [[The Fair Folk]]. In fact, this is the whole ''point'' of turning humans into changelings in the first place -- it's the only way the True Fae can '''reproduce'''.}}

* In ''[[Legend of the Five Rings]]'', the Kuni Witch Hunters are the people who hunt down people who have become tainted by oni/the Shadowlands. In search of these people and in search of how to destroy the Shadowlands, they frequently become tainted and summon Oni.

* In the prologue of the ''[[Dungeons & Dragons]]'' book ''Fiendish Codex II'', this is how Asmodeus transformed from a powerful angel to the ruler of all the devils. He started by fighting off the demon hordes, and began to willingly take on the traits of demons to better fight them. Although it could be argued that he was always evil from the start and the changes may have been solely physical in nature.

* Inverted with Dr. Rudolph van Richten of ''[[Ravenloft]]'', who started out his monster-hunting career determined to avenge his wife and son by any means necessary, but came to recognize the wrongness of this after he'd {{spoiler|sicced some zombies on a Vistani band and [[My God, What Have I Done?|watched them be torn to bits]]. Of course, given these were the Vistani who kidnapped his only son and sold him to a vampire to become the vampire's "bride" (a special form of spawn), and all because his efforts to treat one of their own wounded tribe members had failed and the badly injured Vistani had died, some could argue that [[Kick the Son of a Bitch|they had it coming]]. Still, that he is willing to realise that this is going too far is why he canonically has a Good-based [[Character Alignment]]}}.

 

* The [[Revenge]] [[Tragedy]] genre, which began in ancient Greece, and was also especially popular in Elizabethan and Jacobean England, is fueled on this trope:

** Aeschylus's ''[[The Oresteia|Oresteia]]'' trilogy.

** Clearly lampshade-hung by Malfurion regarding Maiev in ''Warcraft 3'', when he says that she has become "vengeance itself" and hopes that, in her pursuit of Illidan, she will not wreak even more havoc than him. But by the end game of the ''Burning Crusade'' expansion, Maiev says that she is '[[Badass Decay|indeed nothing]]' after downing Illidan.

*** Illidan himself qualifies after consuming demonic powers to fight the Burning Legion. After being banished by his brother, he briefly works for the Legion in bringing down the Lich King. Failing that, he retreats to Outland to escape their wrath. The evil magic he consumed, which also fills the very air of Outland, drives him mad between [[Warcraft]] III and [[World of Warcraft]].

** The [[Knight Templar|Scarlet Crusade]], the fanatical undead-hating organization, which has made the exact same journey as the Lich King/Arthas, have, as of Cataclysm, {{spoiler|become undead themselves, because of Balnazzar's [[Villainous Breakdown]] }}

*** Same can be said for the renegade group of Scarlet Crusaders that Alliance players assist. They succeed in purging the Scarlet Monastery of its corrupted members but ultimately succumb to insanity after killing their own men.

* In ''[[NieR]]'', the protagonist develops an all-consuming hatred for the Shades after The Shadowlord kidnaps his daughter at the end of the first half of the game. It's really shown in the [[New Game+]] where {{spoiler|the players can now understand the language of the Shades, AKA the souls of the true humans, and see the backstory of the bosses you've been mercilessly cutting down. Nier is Robert Neville.}}

* ''[[God of War (series)|God of War]]'''s Kratos. What started as a [[Redemption Quest|quest to rid himself of the nightmares]] turned into a [[Rage Against the Heavens|festival of]] [[Kill'Em All|divine slaughter]]. By the end of the third game, he's arguably become ''worse'' than the Gods he despised so much.

 

* Jenn of ''[[Casey and Andy]]'' just manages to catch herself [http://www.galactanet.com/comic/view.php?strip=416 doing this].

* ''[[Dominic Deegan]]'' has a literal version of this with Karnak.

* ''[[Bittersweet Candy Bowl]]'': After years of taking [[Tsundere]]-ish abuse from Lucy, Mike finally shall we say, "gets her back" by not only {{spoiler|turning her down, but eventually ''[[Kick the Dog|brutally and deliberately destroying]]'' any trace of their relationship, professional or otherwise}}. The problem is, {{spoiler|Lucy has already gone through ''extreme'' [[Character Development]] by this point, so Mike's actions [[Despair Event Horizon|cause her to spiral into a deep, near suicidal depression,]]}} [[Took a Level in Jerkass|which makes him as bad, if not WORSE to her than she ever was to him.]]

 

* In ''[[The Gamers Alliance]]'', [[Loveable Rogue|Refan]] becomes a more jaded and bloodthirsty killer as he ends up having to fight more and more enemies to protect his loved ones. When the enemies get tougher, he has to resort to using his demonic side, which is slowly corrupting him.

* The Dove, from the ''[[Global Guardians PBEM Universe]]'', started out as a standard street-level superhero who concentrated on finding and stopping serial killers. Ten years later, after he is arrested for the murder of his latest target, he suffers a [[Heroic BSOD]] when it is pointed out, finally, that he isn't a hero but rather is just a serial killer himself...one who targets other serial killers.

* ''[[Equestria Chronicles]]'' takes this trope and dances all over the place with it.

 

* Depth Charge in ''[[Transformers]]: [[Beast Wars]]'' snubbed most of the Maximal cast to continue his hunt for Rampage, who had murdered the colony he was supposed to protect beforehand. The one time he decided ''not'' to put his vendetta before an important mission, he was ambushed by his prey, and chose to finish him off in a suicide attack rather than return to his duty. To be fair, Rampage didn't give him much of a choice in the matter. Rampage was purposefully standing between Depth Charge and his mission to stop the ''Nemesis''. A suicide attack might've been overkill, but Rampage wasn't going to stop and just let Depth Charge go after Megatron.

** Being frequently AWOL allowed him to pull off several [[Big Damn Heroes]] moments, but that doesn't excuse his not being there fighting in the first place. He also utters this trope's [[Stock Phrase]] word-for-word: "It's not revenge I'm looking for, it's justice."

** Kyle gets this most, considering his personal hatred for Cartman (not that Cartman's [[Complete Monster]] actions make it any less justifiable).

** The episode "Butterballs" depicts anti-bullying advocates as being [[Not So Different|no better that those they are fighting against]].

* After time travelling to a [[Bad Future]], Gosalyn finds that her absence made [[Darkwing Duck]] turn into Darkwarrior Duck whose idea of justice is [[Disproportionate Retribution]]. He is, without a doubt, far worse than any of the villains who he has already disposed of permanently.

* The seeming moral of the animated short "[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ-n72sADsg Who's Afraid of Mr. Greedy]".

 

* There are many cases where a corrupt regime is overthrown by rebellious revolutionaries, but later becomes this. One of the leaders of the rebellion [[Meet the New Boss|becomes the head of state]] [[Knight Templar|and will use the Revolution as an excuse for anything they do]] because [[Utopia Justifies the Means]]. Unfortunately, since [[With Great Power Comes Great Insanity|power corrupts]], [[Full-Circle Revolution|everything will be back to the way it was before]], [[Dystopia|or worse]]. The Soviet Union under Stalin is one of the most famous examples of this. Both of George Orwell's major works, ''[[Animal Farm]]'' and ''[[Nineteen Eighty-Four|1984]]'' are parables on this happening on how this nigh-inevitable cyclic nature of politics happens, specifically satiring this development in the USSR. [[Older Than They Think|This isn't a recent development]], either: see The Inquisition, and [[Reign of Terror|France]] under [[Maximilien Robespierre]]. For that matter, a few establishments dealing with revolution/terrorism, [[The Revolution Will Not Be Vilified|civilised]] [[The Revolution Will Not Be Civilised|or not]], have turned to [[Knight Templar]] methods little better than those they oppose.

* [[Dwight D. Eisenhower]]'s farewell speech, urging Americans to guard against the rise of a "military-industrial complex" (famously, [[Trope Namer|the first time such a phrase had been stated publicly]]) in the [[Cold War|struggle]] against [[Reds with Rockets|the USSR]] could be seen as an attempt at averting this trope.

** This aversion mostly failed, as many changes to the United States government to help defeat communism, such as [[Peace Through Superior Firepower|massive peacetime defense budgets]], [[The Government|centralization of most government functions (Commerce, Energy, Education, Interior) at the national level]], [[CIA|and a hundredfold increase in the budget for espionage and black ops]], made the US much more like its Soviet Counterpart.

* The Taliban formed their base of power around being sane, religious people external to the civil war that had raged for decades, who could bring order and safety. This got them around a third of Afghanistan before the stresses of trying to fight equally powerful coalitions and the temptations of being a bunch of young men with a lot of power and the level of socialization you'd expect from a bunch of semi-war orphans ('talib' is a student of religion; they recruited mainly from the refugee schools over the border in Pakistan) got to them. Not that they were ever really ''nice'', but they were trying to sort things out for the general benefit. Tyranny, as usual, ensued.

* This is why therapists have to see therapists themselves; because talking to crazy people for a living can take a toll on one's sanity.

* Hollywood got its start because numerous filmmakers moved there in an effort to avoid Thomas Edison's iron grip on film patents and his licensing fees. The MPAA was formed as an effort to push back against government censorship. Nowadays, it's the big movie business that's pushing to strengthen intellectual property enforcement and censorship with proposals such as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOPA SOPA] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACTA ACTA].

* William "Billy D" Usher created the ''One Angry Gamer'' website to fight back against the rampant and blatant left-wing political activism that he felt had taken over the gaming news media. When gaming journalism apparently moved to a more centrist position, he then started grasping at the tiniest of straws in order to stay relevant. He eventually reached the point of ''manufacturing'' controversies and essentially becoming a terrible ''right''-wing activist who wrote primarily angry political rants punctuated with only the occasional decent gaming news article once in a blue moon.

 

{{reflist}}