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It's the Same, Now It Sucks: Difference between revisions
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This trope must be distinguished from [[They Copied It, So It Sucks]], where ''different material'' is considered to be too similar. With [[It's the Same, Now It Sucks]], the problem is that different installments of the ''same thing'' (such as remakes, adaptations, parodies, sequels etc.) are considered to be too slavishly imitative of their original material.
See also [[Sequelitis]], [[Status Quo Is God]], [[Capcom Sequel Stagnation]]. On the opposite end of the spectrum is [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]]. It is mostly impossible to balance [[It's the Same, Now It Sucks]] and [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]], due to a general trend of [[Unpleasable Fanbase]] between the two.
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* ''[[Dragon Quest]]'' has received this complaint at least in the US, which isn't surprising given the conservative nature of the series compared to ''[[Final Fantasy]]''. ''[[Dragon Quest VII (Video Game)|Dragon Quest VII]]'', the first post-Super Nintendo installment, was especially bashed for not really pushing forward with the gameplay or the graphics. Since Enix and Square merged, it seems they've been trying to expand the series with more online multiplayer options and with more immersing gameplay, but given the series' huge popularity in Japan it's unlikely they'll experiment with the fundamentals of the series that much.
* ''[[Gears of War]] 2'' had a list of detractors who would frequently say things like "Everything looks the same. The chainsaw bayonet, the roadie-run, the torque bow... they're just remaking the first game." Apparently it was a big enough concern that X-Play's review deliberately said something to the effect of, "This is not Gears 1.5, it is a real sequel." Upon launch, no one has complained that it is just a rehash of the first game, it was much bigger and better.
** Instead, everyone cried [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]] regarding the shotgun nerf.
*** Or, if you're a lancer guy, then you got the problem of a shotgun which seemed to be more overpowered than ever.
* ''[[The Legend of Zelda]]'' falls all over the map. ''[[The Legend of Zelda the Wind Waker (Video Game)|Wind Waker]]'' was [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]]. ''[[The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess|Twilight Princess]]'' is this.
** Of course, ''TP'' did this on purpose, since Nintendo vowed that it would be "the last Zelda game as you know it" before the gameplay of ''[[The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time (Video Game)|Ocarina of Time]]'' was retired. Similar to ''Ocarina'' changing ''Zelda'' to fit 3D and analog control or ''[[The Legend of Zelda Phantom Hourglass|Phantom Hourglass]]'' changing ''Zelda'' to properly fit the DS' stylus control, the series is set to receive a major overhaul to become a proper Wii game. ''Twilight Princess'' shipping for the Wii at all was something of a fluke, caused by [[Development Hell|excessive]] [[Vaporware|delays]] during its GCN-only development.
** Some people accused ''[[The Legend of Zelda Spirit Tracks|Spirit Tracks]]'' of being this to ''Phantom Hourglass''. The trailer and plot summary dispelled this, however, to the point of one article writer at Zelda Informer '''issuing a public apology to Nintendo for ever doubting them'''.
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** Understandable, seeing as ''Symphony of the Night'' was a [[Genre Shift]], and a permanent one at that.
** A lot of this overlaps with the [[Nostalgia Filter]]. The older Castlevania titles include ''several'' remakes of the first game.
** And yet god help Konami should they [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks|decide to do something]] [[Castlevania Lament of Innocence|different]] [[Castlevania Curse of Darkness|with]] [[Castlevania Judgment|the]] [[Castlevania Lords of Shadow|series]]...
* GameSpot's complaint with the second and third ''[[Ace Attorney]]'' games on the DS? Same gameplay, different cases, with no DS-exclusive features, never mind that adding additional cases, unless rendered completely independent of the main story, would make the series' continuity go haywire. The only new case with DS-exclusive features was a bonus DS-only case for the first game.
** The thing about the Ace Attorney, though, is that the first three games were ports from GBA games released in Japan. They didn't make a DS original game until Apollo Justice.
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* When ''[[Persona 4]]'' was announced to be on the PS2, and using the exact same engine and practically the same system as ''[[Persona 3]]'', it met with much skepticism from fans that they were just cashing in on P3 (especially with P3:FES, a remake of P3, also being announced), instead of pushing the game forward into the next generation with a PS3 or [[Xbox 360]] title. Of course, then [[Never Watched It|the game came out]].
* Any [[Rhythm Game]] series has been around long enough will get this. The sameness is somewhat justified with games that use peripherals, since there's only so much you can change before making a sequel require new controllers to be playable.
** The longevity of ''[[Dance Dance Revolution]]'' makes it a prime target for complaints of staleness. When ''Dance Dance Revolution X'' introduced a new difficulty rating system and announcer, this trope once again rubbed shoulders with [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]]. (It is an annoying announcer, but his disastrousness can get blown all out of proportion.)
* The ''[[Fallout]] 3'' [[Hatedom]] is interestingly split between this trope and [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]]: The former party accuses the game of being essentially "''[[Elder Scrolls|Oblivion]]'' [[Recycled in Space|with guns]]", while the latter considers it too great a deviation from Black Isle's original Fallout games.
** New Vegas seems to be running into this criticism, as well. It has been accused of being little more than a [[Mission Pack Sequel|game mod to number three.]]
* Applies at some point to the first five [[Tomb Raider]] games, the point at which this happens for someone tends to be [[Hypocrite|entirely based around the point they consider the game quality to drop]]
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* ''[[Tales of Vesperia]]'' is one of the highest acclaimed games for the 360 and easily one of the best reviewed JRPGs of this generation. And yet, the biggest complaint? It plays exactly like the other ''Tales'' games.
** This is a recurring complaint lobbed against the ''[[Tales Series]]'' as a whole (mainly because so many games are released in such a small amount of time). Whether it's a genuine complaint or not is up to debate, but fans of the series don't tend to mind the similar-styled games.
* JRPGs in general get this for consisting of the same basic gameplay. Not surprisingly, any game that ''does'' attempt to break from this trope is usually badged with [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]], even if it's a company like, say, Square Enix, that attempts to break the mold with something really gutsy like...their ''[[Final Fantasy XII (Video Game)|flagship]] [[Final Fantasy XIII (Video Game)|franchise]].''
* Before it became a long-loved classic of 64-bit gaming, ''[[Banjo Kazooie]]'' was accused of being a Mario clone simply because it was a 3D platforming game.
* The first ''[[Mega Man Star Force (Video Game)|Mega Man Star Force]]'' game was given a low rating by IGN simply because it felt too much like Battle Network (and yet the fanbase feels it isn't enough like it...). The series in general tend to get flak for changing very few things from sequel to sequel (though ''[[Mega Man X (Video Game)|Mega Man X]] 7'' proved why that's a good thing).
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* ''[[Wario Land (Video Game)|Wario Land]] The Shake Dimension'' was criticised for being too similar to the previous game, ''Wario Land 4'' despite its core mechanic ''not even being possible before the Wii''.
* ''[[Punch Out]] Wii'' is being accused of this, people saying it's just a $50 NES remake that has nothing new or different from the original game. Fans have been dying for another Punch Out that remained true to its roots and [[Unpleasable Fanbase|now they complain it's too much of the same]].
** Even more fun is when you compare this to the complaints about ''[[They Changed It, Now It Sucks|Super Punch-Out!!]]''
* The [[Madden NFL (Video Game)|Madden]] franchise has become a whipping boy for any gamer less than mainstream, with it's fans being decried as "mindless frat boys" and the franchise itself accused of only making incremental improvements. The reasons for this are noted at the top of the page.
** Madden might be one of the best example of such a format, as you could probably think of it as there really only being one Madden game and every installment is an [[Updated Rerelease]].
* ''[[Left 4 Dead]] 2'' was bashed for this AND [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]] ''before the game was even out''. People complained that the sequel was just the exact same game as the first with just different maps, weapons, and characters, [[Unpleasable Fanbase|but they also complain]] that including daytime and using totally different characters ruined the feel of the game.
** It really was an expansion pack more than a different game. A very good expansion pack too. But you had to pay as if it was a brand new game.
* ''[[Starcraft]] 2'' is getting hit hard by this trope and [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]] at the same time. It's not uncommon to see a forum thread complaining that the game is more like "Starcraft 1.5" rather than a true sequel, and then see a thread right below it complaining that the game ''changed too much'' and doesn't capture the essence of the original.
** It is basically the same game strategy-wise (the majority of the units structures are the same ones) but on a new engine and all the perks of modern RTS features, shortcuts, hotkeys, options, etc. So that does explain how it could be both "changed" and the "the same" - it depends on if you are looking at the tactics and units, or at the system used to enact them.
** Some have complained that it's simply [[War Craft]] 3 [[Recycled in Space|IN SPACE]].
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* The WWE [[Smack Down]]! series has recieved some criticism in recent years for having too little variation between each release, although considering that it is currently in its eleventh iteration, this is hardly surprising.
* Even ''ART'' gets this. You can chock this up to [[Fan Dumb]] and [[Hate Dumb]]. They seem to especially be cracking down on poor Tetsuya Nomura, who can't make ''any'' of his characters resemble another of his characters in the ''least bit'' or else he's supposedly re-using designs of Sephiroth and Cloud. He also is not allowed to have any characters wear black ''OR'' have white hair, because then they're a ripoff of Sephiroth, even if the only black are shoes or a black tee-shirt. [[Hate Dumb]] indeed. (To show how bad this was; there were people saying ''SAÏX'' was an expy of Sephiroth - Yes, the nobody in ''[[Kingdom Hearts]]'' with yellow eyes, ''[[You Gotta Have Blue Hair|BLUE]]'' hair, and a big X-shaped scar on his face, is somehow an expy of a green-eyed white-haired soldier with no visible scars.)
** Let's also not forget the people who dislike Yoshitaka Amano also point out that he too has his own trends...which most (if not all) of Nomura's [[Hate Dumb]]/Amano's [[Fan Dumb]] are willfully blind to. Naturally, guess what? Amano draws a willowy pale-skinned man in spiky armour donning a cape (Replace spiky armour with Catsuit if the character is female), has frizzy gray-white hair, and is wearing blue lipstick and black eyeshadow...then [[
*** Amano's characters rarely make it verbatim to the actual game, while all characters Nomura has designed actually appear in game. Yes, Amano's concept art is similar, but the characters themselves don't look that much alike (or like Meg Ryan).
**** Except for the line of expies called the heroes. (And Kuja) Even the concept art for Bartz depicts him as someone who looks like Cecil with a haircut, Firion with no bandanna, Kuja's more masculine brother...And in the remake, this does not look like him at all.
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** Anybody complaining about this will be ignored, as Namco had said that it was a ''port'' and not a ''remake''.
* One of [[The Angry Video Game Nerd (Web Video)|The Angry Video Game Nerd]]'s criticisms of ''Rambo'' on NES was that the developers followed the plot of the film too closely story-wise.
* ''[[The Sims 3]]'' suffered from this complaint. Granted, they did reuse a lot of object meshes and animations from the previous game. It also got hit with [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]] because of WHAT was changed.
* ''[[Crash Bandicoot]]'' falls here prior to Twinsanity. They just copied what Naughty Dog (the original Crash owners) with Warped, Cortex Strikes back, and Team Racing for every game. ''Crash of the Titans'' and ''Mind Over Mutant'' fall under [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]].
** Same thing happened to poor ''[[Spyro the Dragon]]'', where the new owners just copy what the original owners did.
*** Though [[Obvious Beta|Not Testing their first outing with the character]] [[Straw Man Has a Point|couldn't have helped.]]
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== Anime and Manga ==
* The first ''[[Rebuild of Evangelion]]'' film, 1.0: You Are Not Alone, was basically a film remake of the first six episodes of the original series with a few, subtle changes. When 2.0 came out, the [[Unpleasable Fanbase]] had the [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks|opposite direction.]]
* The ''[[Gundam]]'' universe. Though, in their defense, [[Sunrise]] does have an unhealthy obsession with rehashing old character & mech designs. Not to mention when they decided to change the design in ''[[Turn a Gundam (Anime)|Turn a Gundam]]'', [[Unpleasable Fanbase|it was met with heavy derision from the community]].
* Mainly the reason [[The Slayers|Slayers Revolution/Evolution-R]] didn't go over too well with the fans. But it's true that they did bring back a series 10+ years later just to retread the first season and bring back a villain who's already been killed twice, and not bother to advance the rating of the series but air it at night during the adult crowd...
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* A common complaint in reviews about ''[[Quantum of Solace (Film)|Quantum of Solace]]''. After the mindblowing awesome of ''[[Casino Royale (Film)|Casino Royale]]'' critics were admittedly disappointed with it by comparison to the first, since it was more of the same but with less of the bite that goes with being fresh.
** A similar complaint had been lodged over earlier installments of the series for "[[Strictly Formula|sticking too much to the]] [[James Bond (Film)|James Bond]] [[Strictly Formula|formula]]", especially towards the end of the Brosnan era. In fact, much of the praise for ''[[Casino Royale (Film)|Casino Royale]]'' came from dodging this trope like the plague.
* Disney fandom and outside observers share this viewpoint from time to time. The formulaic princess stories, the wisecracking sidekicks, the musical numbers, and the happy endings embody both what we love about the [[Disney Animated Canon]], and what we roll our eyes at (and what rival studios have since learned to imitate). Expect all fairy tale animated movies to be met with this trope, with certain fans and non-fans agreeing that it's all too predictable, and by contrast, [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks|Lord help Disney when they try to change things up]]. The fans go batty every time.
** Warner Bros.'s ''[[Animaniacs (Animation)|Animaniacs]]'' parodied this accurately with their skit on ''[[Pocahontas]]'', "Just The Same Old Heroine".
* One reason newer ''[[Star Trek (Franchise)|Star Trek]]'' and ''[[Star Wars]]'' films/shows tend to have lukewarm reception by fans is that nowadays they're nothing but attempting to continue "what you loved" in the original - every Star Wars fiction has one droid who is or looks just like R2-D2, enemies that are or look just like storm troopers and Mandelorians, Jedi fighting evil as the underdogs, etc. The villains in most ''[[Star Trek (Franchise)|Star Trek]]'' movies will either be criticized for being crappy [[Star Trek II the Wrath of Khan (Film)|Khan]] rip-offs, [[Broken Base|or criticized]] [[Fan Dumb|for not being]] [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks|enough like Khan]].
** In the case of ''[[Star Wars]]'', Lucas & others have occasionally said the use of repeating motifs is intentional, to evoke the feel of classic myths, tying into the whole [[Heros Journey]] archetypal thing they were going for.
* [[Watchmen (Film)|The movie version]] of ''[[Watchmen (Comic Book)|Watchmen]]'' has been criticized for following the comic too closely. It was also criticized for changing too much. Lose-lose situation either way.
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** Another problem is that the show is quite predictable on most occasions. Patient comes in -> House thinks he's figured it out -> House is wrong -> Patient has another symptom -> House has a crazy theory after an epiphany from an argument with his staff -> Nobody believes him -> House is right -> Everyone is surprised! This happens [[Once an Episode|nearly every episode.]]
** Season Five has focused on [[Character Development|changing]] him through a series of harrowing personal experiences {{spoiler|before delivering a sadistic "[[Wham Episode|Gotcha!]]" to both the fans and the doctor}}.
*** In Season 6, he actually ''has'' changed [[Unpleasable Fanbase|and we've got people bitching]] [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks|about this as well.]]
* The American version of [[Top Gear]] is suffering from this horribly. Fans were expecting a familiar setting with loads of new content. Instead they got a setting that only pays lip service to the original's style while completely ripping off the challenges almost shot for shot. The producers didn't seem to realize that anyone familiar with the original show wasn't going to bother turning in to see the exact same shows with much lower production values.
* [[MTV]]'s adaptation of the British show [[Skins]], which originally aired on [[Channel Four]]. MTV attempts to use the same aesthetic and similar scripting in their adaptation, but much of the show depended upon aspects of British culture that do not translate effectively to the US. The result is a show that is overly conscious of its being "indie".
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== Music ==
* [[Evanescence]] fans tend to give this treatment to We Are The Fallen, made up of former [[Evanescence]] members Ben Moody, Rocky Gray and John LeCompt and singer Carly Smithson. Carly is often accused of sounding too much like Amy Lee, and the band of being an Evanescence ripoff.
* Live recordings have a tendency to be subject to this. People who enjoy live recordings generally don't want the live versions to sound too much like the studio versions. On the flip side, though, other people don't like live recordings because they feel that it tends to [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks|"ruin" the songs that they love so much]].
* Also expect this reaction whenever a band covers a song but remains very faithful to the original recording.
* Franco-British avant-garde post-rock band [[Stereolab]] began their career in the early 1990s, performing dangerously modern Krautrock-influenced lounge pop songs with lilting, Marxist-themed lyrics. And that is how they ended their career, nineteen years later, by which time the critics had given up on them.
* Averted by Australian hard rock legends [[ACDC (Music)|AC/DC]]. Reviewers are contractually obliged to point out that each of their new albums sound exactly like every single one of the band's previous releases of the last thirty years, and that this is a good thing.
** Though Angus Young has declared: "I'm sick to death of people saying we've made 11 albums that sound exactly the same. In fact, we've made 12 albums that sound exactly the same".
* When [[Michael Jackson]] released ''Bad'' in 1987, many reviewers complained that it was too much like ''Thriller''. The title songs were fairly similar, and other songs just barely avoided being analogues for others from the previous album. The 1991 followup, ''Dangerous'' didn't have quite the same problem... until after Jackson died, where polls and iTunes charts showed that certain songs from ''Bad'' seemed to be making a comeback and ''Dangerous'' seemed to signal the beginning of the end. Because Jackson clearly moved in a different direction with ''Dangerous'' and it's the first album of his adult solo career not to be produced by Quincy Jones, it could be a retroactive case of [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]].
** The funny thing is, Quincy Jones (and at least two generations of fans, apparently) seem to think that ''Bad'' is a superior album to ''Thriller'', since his remastered "Essentials" greatest hits album from several years back contains almost every track from ''Bad'' (almost every one of them chart-toppers) but only choice cuts from ''Thriller'' (which does contain a fair amount of [[Filler]]). And it's hard to say that ''Bad'' is just a retread of ''Thriller'', since it's clearly [[Darker and Edgier]] and has a more consistent sound throughout.
* Musicians that don't change their sound tend to get this as well. That's a reason for the huge [[Hatedom]] for [[Nickelback]]: their songs sound exactly the same.
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== Newspaper Comics ==
* ''[[FoxTrot]]'' had a strip years ago that played with this trope. Jason was tired of waiting for the sequel to ''[[Myst]]'' to come out, so he created his own sequel. He showed his brother his game, "Here's the observatory and here's the library..." and Peter said, "Wait, these are all the same levels of the first game. What makes this different?" The computer then beeped and said, "Warning, [[
== Other ==
* [[Open GL]] 3 got this ''and'' [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]]; the original idea was to completely overhaul the API, making it more like what [[Direct 3 D]] 10 ended up being. This made it quite far into the process, before Kronos declared the standard needed a few tweaks, entered a media black out and released a glorified [[Open GL]] 2.2; people following the standard were not amused.
== [[Tabletop Games]] ==
* Pathfinder being a reimagining of 3.5 and [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks|a completely new 4th edition]].
** [[Your Mileage May Vary]], yeah, let us leave it at that.
*** Let's not. D&D is one of the [[Long Runners]] out there, going on for about four decades by now. In it's time, it has developed considerably and changed hands several times, having once belonged to TSR, then Wizards of the Coast, and finally Hasbro (though they own [[Wot C]], not just the D&D property.) Its has had a [[Broken Base]] which goes rabid every time there is a big change; there were players who reacted with [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks]] back when the game transitioned to ''Advanced'' D&D. With the advent of 4th Edition, the base breaking went supernova, with critics claiming the game lost a great deal of flavor because of it's MMO-like mechanics while fans claimed the easier playability, clear focus on balance, and streamlined form made the game much more fun. The previous edition, 3.5, had allowed many third party companies to publish and use much of the intellectual property, including the mechanics, of D&D freely. Paizo released Pathfinder, a re-tooled 3.5 which addressed a lot of the balance issues and improved the mechanics while not resembling 4th Edition. As the product line developed, it began to add many features not seen in 3.5 and develop its own setting into a fully-fledged fantasy world. Some players like it, some don't, and when arguments start expect plenty of flame wars and [[Fan Dumb]]. However, this is all [[Older Than They Think]]; there are players still playing with books which were printed before the Reagan era.
**** *Gasp* and now (january 2012) they announced the 5th edition!
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