Moral Event Horizon/Video Games: Difference between revisions

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** Then there's Scarlet leading mass murder via the complete destruction of the town of Coral.

* In ''[[Final Fantasy VI]]'', Kefka is introduced as more of a nuisance, but a general of the enemy Empire nonetheless. His clownish charm fades rather quickly, however, after he disobeys direct orders and poisons Doma's water supply. The situation up to that point: [[A Father to His Men|General Leo]] had Doma Castle besieged, and was likely to win in just a matter of time with minimal casualties. Some time after Kefka arrives, Leo is summoned back to Vector to meet with the Emperor. Now there's no one to stop Kefka from dumping deadly poison into the Doma River, killing absolutely everyone in the castle; men, women, children, and ''Imperial P.O.W's'' that he knew full well were still trapped inside. The kicker here, which cements this act as Kefka gleefully tapdancing and cackling his way across the [[Moral Event Horizon]], is that ''the Empire was going to win anyway''. There was absolutely no possible justification for this heinous war crime other than Kefka wanting to hear [[Loves the Sound of Screaming|"the music of hundreds of voices screaming in unison"]].

** And if there's still any glimmer of humanity at that point, it's all but lost when he {{spoiler|murders his own Emperor, by kicking him off the [[Floating Continent]] (thus taking his role as the [[Big Bad]]) ''after'' having the Warring Triad use their powers to mortally wound Gestahl, to harness the power that created all magic and unleash destruction on the planet below, leaving countless dead, a city with only children left alive, and entire continents split apart and reshaped.}} Just because he could.

** Really, he doesn't even last THAT long. The introduction alludes to him, and later shows him, controlling Terra with a Slave Crown and forcing her to burn HIS OWN SOLDIERS ALIVE! According to another Imperial Soldier, it was as many as 50 soldiers in mere moments. The man had maybe a few seconds of screen time before he's revealed to be [[Complete Monster|a thoroughly terrible person without a shred of decency]]. No wonder the soldiers at the Doma base keep complaining about him, who in their right mind agrees to serve under someone like that?!

*** His only excuse, '''''at all''''' for all this? As an early magitek knight, the process very likely drove him insane. No, that doesn't cut it.

* ''[[Psychonauts]]'': As if Doctor Loboto wasn't bad enough, he crosses the Horizon by {{spoiler|forcing Sheegor to steal more psychic brains for him by threatening to cook her pet turtle, Mr. Pokeylope (who, mind you, is extremely intelligent and has a brain the size of an average human), if she doesn't. The exact moment: "Well, maybe I'll just make a cup for myself."}}

** {{spoiler|"It's made of turtles. Turtles that YOU LOVE!"}}

* In ''[[Star Wars]]: [[Knights of the Old Republic]]'', right after you decide to follow [[Karma Meter|the Dark Side path]], the game makes it plain what an [[Complete Monster|ultimately depraved monster]] you have chosen to become by allowing you to [[Brainwashed|Force Persuade]] Zaalbar to kill Mission, his best friend, because she refuses to either join you or run away to save herself, and she's too nice to be brainwashed into going Sith herself. And Bastila ''compliments'' you for it. Note to put it all in perspective: Mission is a 14-year-old orphan girl who by this point in the game has not only helped save your life at least twice, but whom you've taken under your wing as a surrogate daughter, ''and who at this point in time is the only member of your party still believing that you can be turned back to the Light Side''. You get to hear her anguished cries of betrayal and disappointment as she dies.

** The whole point of the game (on the light side path, at least) is that there IS NO moral event horizon - that NO ONE deserves to die, and that there is no point beyond which someone cannot be redeemed. The fact that the game forces you to callously kill Mission if you side with Bastila at the end kind of turns this into a [[Broken Aesop]].

**** Or not. What really breaks the Aesop is that the extra scene where Carth could convince you to pull [[Redemption Equals Death]] was removed.

** To elaborate, prior to {{spoiler|Tarsonis}}, Mengsk has only used the psi-emitters on Confederate troops. Letting the [[Horde of Alien Locusts]] eat your enemies? That's a [[Kick the Dog]] for sure, but could be justifiable. {{spoiler|Calling said Alien Locusts to a planet with not only military forces, but with ''hundreds of millions of innocents'' on it, and then sitting back and watching the slaughter? That's this trope.}} Kerrigan (very loyal to Arcturus) even calls him on it. {{spoiler|Unfortunately, that causes him to decide that Kerrigan [[You Have Outlived Your Usefulness|has outlived her usefulness]], and leave her to the Zerg as well.}}

*** {{spoiler|And, in Starcraft 2, guess what Raynor has now told EVERYONE? This is out, and Mengsk is now approaching 0% approval rating.}}

** It's hard to say if Kerrigan crossed it {{spoiler|due to the fact that it's unknown how much control she has after being turned into a Zerg, but Infested Kerrigan is when she betrays her allies and kills Fenix, just so she doesn't have to deal with him in the future (she also killes Duke, but he was an [[Asshole Victim]].)}}

** Not to mention Stukov and DuGalle's meeting at the beginning of ''[[Brood War]]'', over a hapless terran base overrun by Zerg, brought there by the UED themselves! It's debatable whether it was the crossing of the UED into the event horizon, since they hadn't done anything else yet, but it certainly showed you they weren't fucking around. [[Autobots Rock Out|The Power of Rock]] didn't save THOSE marines...

* World of Warcraft/Warcraft III - [[Warcraft|"This city must be purged"]]

** Malygos crosses the Moral Event Horizon when the player, after defeating one of his minions, {{spoiler|finds a letter that reveals that he forced them to work for him under the threat of their family being killed}}. Like Deathwing, when Alexstraza learns of his plans, she sadly decides that he is beyond redemption, and decides to kill him to save Azeroth.

** [[World of Warcraft|Sylvanas Windrunner]] has [[Crosses the Line Twice|crossed the line so many times that she plays double-dutch with it]], and despite some Warcraft fans remaining loyal to her and claiming she hasn't done anything wrong because [[Well-Intentioned Extremist|"it's for the good of her 'people'"]], many more have found her to be irredeemably evil. She has committed so many atrocities that it would actually be much easier to list what she hasn't done. She has: killed civilians, killed children, experimented on children with biological weapons, used biological weapons on civilian towns, committed genocide, [[Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking|disobeyed direct orders]], [[You Will Be Assimilated|reanimated the men that she has killed into more Forsaken]], kidnapped, taken hostages, invaded foreign countries, framed a Foraken man who may or may not have committed a crime and then tested biological weapons against him, mind-controlled a Death Knight (essentially a volunteer Horde warrior), used propaganda, and set herself up as the object of cult worship. If Sylvanas sees a line to be crossed, she gleefully cartwheels over it.

** While we all knew Dahlia was a [[Bitch in Sheep's Clothing]] from the moment she popped up, her status as a monster wasn't fully confirmed until the flashback case where {{spoiler|she convinces Terry Fawles (implied to be mentally disabled) into killing himself because he doubted that she loved him. This is after framing him for murdering her and later her sister.}}

* In ''[[Suikoden V]]'', the villains had toed the line between reasonable and malicious up until they sent assassins to wipe out the beavers, for no reason other than a desire to remove all ethnic diversity from the kingdom. After that, they were just plain evil.

**** Probably he was the explorer who first mapped out the Lower Planes, the knowledge of which allowed the demons and devils to come into contact with one another, and started the Blood War in the first place.

* Spoofed in ''[[Armed and Dangerous]]'': King Forge's men take over a retirement home. This is seen by everyone as a horrible act, while it was actually done because one of the heroes moved a sign.

** The game, meanwhile, will conclude that the ''player'' has crossed the line if {{spoiler|you kill more than two Little Sisters. So, no, by the time Tennenbaum takes you in and says there may be hope for you yet, there isn't. Given that you're killing brainwashed little girls who can't help themselves, it's justified.}}

** However, truly special mention must be made to Dr. Sofia Lamb of the sequel. The opening cutscene is you bringing your Little Sister, Eleanor Lamb around on a gathering expedition, and being attacked by a group of splicers as is normal. Then the good Doc Lamb shows up. {{spoiler|after her minions cast Hypnotize on you, she forces you to ''shoot yourself in the head. While her daughter watches in [[Break the Cutie|increasing horror]]''.}}

** Possibly topped by {{spoiler|what Sofia Lamb does to your buddy [[Mission Control|Augustus Sinclair]]. Capturing him and turning him into an [[Super Prototype|Alpha-Series Big Daddy]], except his mind is still awake and aware. During the last level, you have to work your way through the multiple defenses Sinclair's body has set up... all while Sinclair's mind/voice is radioing you, [[Apologetic Attacker|apologizing for everything]], [[I Cannot Self-Terminate|telling you to kill him]], and saying he enjoyed the time spent helping you throughout the game. When you finally manage to take him down, he [[Dying as Yourself|thanks you]] [[Tear Jerker|as he dies]]}}.

*** Her [[Moral Event Horizon]] may have come even earlier when {{spoiler|Lamb ''smothers Eleanor with a pillow'' to put Delta in a coma}} or when {{spoiler|she captures Mark Metzer, a character that a lot of fans liked due to his exploits on the viral marketing site "Something in the Sea" and forces him to become a Big Daddy. Which the player will almost certainly kill}}.

** Stanley Pool is just as bad, in a horrible,fat toad sort of way. Not only does he turn Dionysis Park into a den of vice after being given control over the district, but he prevents Eleanor from reporting this by kidnapping her and giving her to the Little Sister program. Then, when Sofia escapes from prison, he decides silence any remaining witnesses by sabotaging the district's pressure systems, drowning just about everyone left in the area. Is it any wonder that [[Earn Your Happy Ending|getting the game's best ending]] requires you to [[Asshole Victim|kill the despicable jerk?]]

* In [[Fallout: New Vegas]] the player can cross this. YMMV if the [[Moral Event Horizon]] goes to selling your friend into slavery, letting Mortimer, a high class cannibal, use one of your human companions as the main course of a banquet, or teaming up with the Powder Gangers to destroy Goodsprings and kill everyone in it, including the guy who saved your life. [[Video Game Cruelty Potential|Or other things.]]

* The Locust from ''[[Gears of War]]'' were nasty in the first place, but just in case you thought that they might actually be justified in their extreme actions (as Myrrah continually tries to pass them off as being), they skip gleefully past the Moral Event Horizon in ''Gears Of War 2'' {{spoiler|where they're revealed to capture humans just so they can expose them to torture so nasty, the biggest [[Badass]] of a game series that's practically Made Of Badass commits suicide once he's freed.}}

** The reason {{spoiler|Tai}} commits suicide is his religion believes that the soul can leave the body before death, and this is what happened during the torture. After he was free, his body was soulless so {{spoiler|Tai}} saw no point in having earthly remains.

** {{spoiler|Not even humans in the military, or humans who were armed. Every human they came across they either killed or tortured, and nobody knows why. [[Player Punch|The scene with Maria...]] well. [[Tear Jerker|It drives the point home.]]}}

* Lieutenant Virgil from ''[[Xenosaga]]'' was a [[Jerkass]] from the start, but crosses the Moral Event Horizon when he ''blows up'' some [[Artificial Human|Realians]] for no better reason than that there's some chance it might buy some time, and talks cheerfully about how he loves eating their flesh. When he dies shortly thereafter, Shion still cares, but the player most likely doesn't.

** {{spoiler|In the third game, his abject hatred of Realians and even his cannibalistic tendencies are made a bit more forgivable when you learn about his backstory with Febronia. His final scene in particular almost tips him into [[Jerkass Woobie]] territory...of course, [[Your Mileage May Vary]]}}

* Wiseman from ''[[Baten Kaitos]] Origins'' crosses it in a big way when he {{spoiler|kills everyone in Naos}}, an act so evil that Seph, perhaps the best example of a [[Red Oni, Blue Oni|Blue Oni]] in the game up to this point, goes completely berserk. To the point where he {{spoiler|makes a [[Deal with the Devil]] just so that he can personally kill Wiseman}}.

** Shanath isn't any better in this regard. Even as someone who had been a major pain in the ass for pretty much the entire game, he manages to take it to a new level when he {{spoiler|rips off Gena's wings}}. This pisses off Sagi to such a massive degree that when it is revealed later in the game that this wasn't Shanath's idea, but {{spoiler|Quaestor Verus'}}, it's treated as ''that character'' crossing the [[Moral Event Horizon]] as well. Yes, the same event counts for two different people.

* The ''[[Tales (series)|Tales]]'' series is known for having sympathetic villains, so it's kind of shocking that ''[[Tales of Vesperia]]'' has two {{spoiler|or three}} of the most vile, inhuman villains in the entire series.

** First there is Ragou. The very first thing we learn about him is that he demands cripplingly high taxes from the people, and ''abducts the children'' of those unable to pay. Doesn't seem so bad, right? Well, then you learn that {{spoiler|Not only does he ''kill the kids'', he ''feeds some of the corpses to monsters and sells the rest in the black market.''}} And his reason for doing this? He was ''bored''.

** And then there's Cumore. Was there ever Cumore. At first, he only seems like a [[Smug Snake]], but then he tells Leblanc right to his face that the Schwann Brigade is weak for showing mercy. Sometime later, we discover that he has forced the people of Heliord in brutal labor camps ''very'' similar to [[WW 2]] labor camps. All this is topped off when it's discovered that he's sent countless people on a literal suicide mission, including one of his own men ''because he didn't load a prisoner wagon fast enough.''

** One could argue that {{spoiler|Alexei}} crossed the line worse then Ragou and Cumore. {{spoiler|First, he's responsible for most (but not all) of the previous two's actions. That alone makes him pretty evil, but ''then'' he orchestrates an attack on Nordopolica and has Flynn, Harry Whitehorse (The Don's son) and the Hunting Blades take the fall. This leads to one major Guild leader being turned into a monster that the party [[Mercy Kill|has to kill]], Flynn and his brigade shamed, and tensions in the Guild Union rising to a boiling point, leading to the Don committing honorable suicide in order to both save Harry and prevent a civil war.}} Oh, and ''then'' we learn that {{spoiler|he resurrected Raven against his will and forced him to be his slave/errand boy}}. And then, as the icing of a very vile cake, {{spoiler|he forces Raven to kidnap Estelle, and then proceeds to [[Mind Rape]] her to such a point that he'd give ''[[Neon Genesis Evangelion]]'' a run for its money}}. Did I mention that {{spoiler|the [[Mind Rape]] was so horrible that Estelle eventually lost complete control of her body (but not her mind), essentially literally making her a puppet for Alexei to control?}} Yeah, Vesperia pulled no punches in regards to pure evil villains...

* In ''[[Infamous (video game series)|In Famous]]'' the player is given a karma choice. {{spoiler|Either destroy the Ray Sphere and become a hero to all, or activate the Ray Sphere and become so evil that you can never be redeemed.}} You become literally irredeemable: the [[Karma Meter]] sets to its most evil setting and sticks there ''permanently''.

** Similarly, {{spoiler|Zeke crosses it when he attempts to use the Ray Sphere to give himself powers knowing it would kill thousands in the process, and then when it doesn't work he ditches Cole to join Kessler. [[Character Development|He gets better in the sequel though.]]}}

** Thankfully, the game lets you, in your metagame precognition, kill him before this even begins to happen...while he's giving you the tutorial on how to use your camera. The game still counts this as a Psychopath kill.

** "I don't ''have'' to kill them. It just stops them from wriggling too much.''

* The Hamlet special forces unit from ''[[Ace Combat]] X: Skies of Deception'' unleashes a biochemical agent on the innocent city of Santa Elva in order to kill civilians. It's a bit hard to feel sympathetic for the Leasath military after that.

** Before then, his sadistic torture of Guybrush in the final areas of ''Monkey Island 2''.

* {{spoiler|Ninetails}} from ''[[Okami]]'' has all the marks of a very cool villain: sly, sneaky, [[Evil Counterpart]] to Ammy ({{spoiler|even has his own Brush Techniques... with nine tails!}}) and an awe-striking battle. All of this is negated by it {{spoiler|horribly murdering the innocent, beloved priestess Rao and stuffing her body down a well in order to deceive the populace, Ammy included.}} And then, once it had accomplished its goals, it {{spoiler|drove Queen Himiko to her own death}}. Whereas other Demon Lords are traditional villains ([[Orochi]] at least let people live their own lives, provided they yielded the [[Virgin Sacrifice|yearly sacrifice]],) {{spoiler|Ninetails}} is an irredeemable, hateful, [[Complete Monster]].

** You, the player, cross the [[Moral Event Horizon]] during the famous level "No Russian." {{spoiler|Masquerading as a Russian terrorist to infiltrate [[Complete Monster|Makarov's]] gang, you and he march through an airport and slaughter hundreds of civilians with automatic weapons.}} General Shepherd tells you in the mission briefing "This will cost you a piece of yourself," and [[Player Punch|he is not joking.]] Even though you ''do'' have the option to ''not'' shoot the civilians (you can either not shoot at all or purposely shoot over their heads), it doesn't excuse the dozens of SWAT cops you gun down on your way out.

*** And the kicker is you can't even [[Take a Third Option|prevent the massacre by gunning down the terrorists instead]], because doing so [[But Thou Must!|gives you a]] [[Nonstandard Game Over]].

** Kyosuke's [[Evil Twin]] Beowulf crossed it big time during [[The Anime of the Game]] (Inspectors). His first on-screen appearance consist of {{spoiler|him brutally slaying the Shadow Mirror version of Team SRX, ripping the SRX into pieces, and then killed a defenseless Ryusei Date stuck in the destroyed R-1. All with a [[Slasher Smile]] on his face. He ''never'' did that in the actual game and it does show that Beowulf is NOT heroic. At all.}}

*** Should be noted that {{spoiler|Rai had already died during the Black Hole incident so someone else must've been piloting R-2.}}

** {{spoiler|Commander Sith}} also takes one when he backstabs {{spoiler|Yomiel by tricking his spirit into leaving his body for another part of the sub, removing the Temsik meteorite, and sinking the sub. This would condemn Yomiel to an eternity in crushing darkness, completely alone without even a body to move with. And his only reasoning is [[You Have Outlived Your Usefulness]]. Since we feel a little sorry for Yomiel by this point, it doesn't feel like karma.}}

** The part where {{spoiler|Lynch has a psychotic episode and shoots Yoko, effectively ensuring that Kane's family will be killed,}} definitely counts. Made even worse when, instead of apologizing or something, he refuses to take responsibility and yells at Kane for negotiating deals with the enemy.

*** During this same pre-battle scene, Ganondorf also {{spoiler|explicitly tells Link he will spare him, as he only needs the Triforce piece the hero carries. Once he takes it, he combines it with his own and Zelda's, summoning the full Triforce to grant him one wish. And this wish? To raise the sunken Hyrule back up above the waves and let him rule it. You might have expected him to be all "[[Evil Laugh|yar har]] eternal shadow", but judging by his earlier speech he genuinely just wanted a nice country for his own people instead of the harsh desert he came from. It's not until the King of Hyrule shows up to steal the wish that Ganondorf goes truly [[Laughing Mad]] and [[Axe Crazy]] on the heroes.}}

** Zant in ''[[Twilight Princess]]'' crossed this line in a similar manner when he {{spoiler|executed Queen Rutela ''in front of'' the Zoras for standing up against the army of the Twilight Realm}}.

* Kyoji Nanba of ''[[Racing Lagoon]]'' gets depressed as he's defeated by Sho Akasaki(you) and lose his chance to race in the Yokohama GP. {{spoiler|He then takes a diablo-tuned car and gets himself killed.}}

** Terumi:

*** created the [[Orochi|Black]] [[Eldritch Abomination|Beast]] that ravaged the world for years, joined the Six Heroes to defeat it when he realized it couldn't be controlled... then betrayed them and killed Nine, Kokonoe's mother, when she learned about his involvement in the Black Beast's creation.

*** burned down the orphanage where Ragna and his siblings were living, kidnapped Ragna's sister, Saya, possessed Ragna's brother, Jin and, through him, cut off Ragna's right arm, and ate Jin's memories; finishing the ordeal by murdering Nine's sister, Mercury, who had been running the orphanage.

*** {{spoiler|[[Manipulative Bastard|uses Litchi's desperation to cure Arakune]], as well as her own [[The Corruption|worsening condition]], to encourage her into a reluctant [[Face Heel Turn]].}}

*** {{spoiler|mocks a blind Tsubaki and tells her that all of the things that have happened to her are basically her own fault, and in another ending, plays unmercifully on her [[Green-Eyed Monster|jealousy of Noel]] to pit her against both Noel, her best friend, and Jin, her one true love}}. Oh, and we're nowhere near finished yet. {{spoiler|In Tsubaki's bad ending, she dies from overuse of the Izayoi, and he ''laughs at her''. In the ''Wheel of Fortune'' drama CD, he does this again when she dies, and also '''''kicks her dead body'''''}}.

*** Then there's Carl's bad ending in CS, where {{spoiler|Hazama rips Ada apart while a helpless Carl cries and begs for him to stop. Hazama then picks up Carl by his collar, delivers a brutal [[Hannibal Lecture]] to him, and ends by [[Would Hurt a Child|killing Carl by tossing him into the Cauldron]]. It's non-canon, but still}}.

*** Let's not forget his [[Finishing Move|Astral Finish]]. Most characters either kill or knock out the opponent. Relius? He captures the enemy, drags him to a facility where he ties him up and closes the door behind him, implying he's about to perform more of his horrific experiments. The special quotes not reserved for Hazama indicate that he's got ''worse'' in mind for the recipients.

** Also, Kokonoe's {{spoiler|experiments on Lambda and her hand in the creation of Ignis are seen as crossing the [[Moral Event Horizon]]}}.

** Vamp in ''[[Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty]]'' crosses it when {{spoiler|he murders Otacon's sister, Emma}}.

** In the first ''[[Metal Gear Solid]]'', Liquid Snake is pretty much an evil son-of-a-bitch from the beginning, but {{spoiler|the kid gloves are off when it's revealed that he was impersonating Master Miller after having him killed.}}

* [[Saya no Uta|Fuminori Sakisaka]], if he decides he has no qualms with eating human meat. Just listen to him when Kouji comments to him on his cell phone about becoming "quite the meat eater":

{{quote|'''Fuminori''': ''"Actually, I've only killed one so far"'', Fuminori replies unapologetically, with perfect cheerfulness. ''"I've taken apart three or four, though. I've gotten pretty good at cutting the tendons and draining the blood and such."''}}

{{quote|{{spoiler|'''Erika''': ''"I dashed all over the mansion, visited all the 'crime' scenes, and...completely severed their heads... All five people I killed......were very much alive and faithfully playing dead until the moment I killed them."''}}}}

** Also in the running would be Purple Eyes from ''[[Pokémon Ranger]] Guardian Signs''. Before we even learn he exists, he's beaten Rand within an inch of his life and kidnapped both his wife and daughter. Later, he beats the daughter up, too! He kept getting worse up until he thought [[Do Not Taunt Cthulhu|it would be a good idea to bark orders at Arceus]] - at which point [[Laser-Guided Karma|he dearly paid for it]].

{{quote|{{spoiler|'''Raspberyl''': What kind of nerves do you have?! It's beyond [[Card-Carrying Villain|honor student]] level.}}}}

* In literally the first scene of ''[[Suikoden II]]'' where we see Luca Blight, he has just finished massacring almost all the members of a Youth Brigade camp (read: basically fantasy Boy Scouts) so that he can frame a neighboring country for the deed and get the people's support for a campaign of slaughter, rape, and pillage. [[Complete Monster|And he only gets worse from there]].

* The [[Cult|"Children of Tarrone"]] in the eighth mission of [[SWAT 4]]. Seems like your standard doomsday cult until you get to the basement and find {{spoiler|that they willingly [[Complete Monster|killed their children and tore up the concrete floor to bury them.]]}}

* The space combat simulator ''X-Wing: Alliance'' had a richer plot and cast of characters than its predecessors, particularly a subplot involving the protagonist Ace Azzameen's family. When Ace is new to piloting for his father Tomaas' shipping company, he helps out with a covert delivery of bacta to the wounded soldiers from Hoth, only for the Empire to show up and destroy the freighter that Ace's father and eldest brother were on. Their uncle Anton helps them escape to the Rebel Alliance. Near the end of the game, Anton gives them information that indicates that Tomaas and Galin are alive on an Imperial prison station. When the Azzameen children go to rescue them, Imperial ships arrive to capture them. They learn that their dear Uncle Anton not only set them up, but told the Empire about Tomaas' bacta run way back when. To recap, the man sold his own brother and niece and nephews out to the Empire, all because he figured Tomaas' dealings with rebels would ruin their business.

* Harlan Wade from F.E.A.R. indisputably crosses the MEH when he {{spoiler|sends his pre-teen daughter into the lab of the company that he works for so that they can conduct experiments on her psychic abilities. Later on, Wade decides to place Alma in a permanent coma and have her impregnated with the hope of creating first a super-soldier, then a psychic commander of a battalion of mindless soldiers. Finally, he just has the plug pulled on her}}. The [[Big Bad|Big Bad's]] murderous rage that leaves dozens or hundreds of civilians dead is a bit [[Freudian Excuse|understandable]] after you learn all of this.

** Then {{spoiler|Orsino}} crosses it when he reveals that he knew about and protected {{spoiler|the [[Serial Killer]] blood mage Quentin. While he downplays his crime in the Mage path, he is wholly unrepentant in the Templar path about being complicit in the deaths of several innocent women including Hawke's mother Leandra.}} He even uses the fruits of {{spoiler|Quentin's}} research to turn himself into a literal monster after the reveal.

** Due to the game's [[Grey and Gray Morality]], a lot of [[Player Character|Hawke's]] actions have some sort of justification. However, there is absolutely ''no'' excuse for {{spoiler|''selling Fenris back to his [[Complete Monster]] master'', ''especially'' since he had been your loyal comrade for ''seven years''.}} It's so awful that almost all of your [[Dysfunction Junction|companions]] will [[What the Hell, Hero?|call you out on it]].

* The ''[[Mass Effect]]'' series tends strongly towards ambiguity, but there are still some cases where a line to ultimate unredeemable evil is crossed.

** Even though he can be seen as not entirely responsible for his actions in ''Mass Effect'', one optional dialog reveals that Saren crossed the line a long time before any of that. He once destroyed an entire colony with thousands of dead just to make it look like Andersons fault because he didn't want a human to join the Specters.

*** Another potential [[Moral Event Horizon]], if that one didn't do it for you, is {{spoiler|The Part Where He Kills You.}}

*** Or earlier, when {{spoiler|Wheatley starts testing you}}, despite all your plans for {{spoiler|escape.}}

** This is a weird one, since Therese and Jeanette {{spoiler|are split personalities that were created when Therese/Jeanette was turned into a Malkavian. They aren't sisters, they are the same person.}}

* In ''[[Myst]] IV: Revelation'', {{spoiler|Sirrus kidnaps Yeesha for [[Grand Theft Me]] purposes and ''boasts to her of his plan''}}.

** In the novel ''Book of D'ni'', Ymur is another [[Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds]] until {{spoiler|he tries to become the new Master, in the same barbaric vein as the Terahnee enslaved ahrotantee}}.

{{quote|"For the pain that I've caused you, I deserve no mercy. Even if it was to save mankind, it was too deep a sin."}}

* In ''[[Skies of Arcadia]]'', Lord Galcian gains the ability destroy any or all of the lands underneath the Six Moons. To display his newfound power, he {{spoiler|summons the Rains of Destruction from the Yellow Moon. What is underneath the Yellow Moon? Valua, the most technologically advanced land in Arcadia, and it just so happens to be Galcian's home land as well! Galcian figured that if the most powerful country in the world could be reduced to ashes in no time, the rest would fall to him.}} What is amazing about this is that the {{spoiler|Valuan army, the army of the country that he just wiped off the map}} continue to stick with him as Galcian is that much of a [[Magnificent Bastard]].

* It's very easy to hate Admiral Greyfield in ''[[Advance Wars]]: Days of Ruin'', although the clincher is when {{spoiler|Forsythe, the [[Anti-Villain|honorable]] general}} of the enemy Lazurian Army, surrenders to him and takes responsibility for all of the bad things his troops have done. Greyfield's reaction? {{spoiler|He kills Forsythe and captures his army, threatening to execute them all. Soon afterward, when he finds out that Brenner is helping the Lazurians escape from captivity, Greyfield carpet bombs his position, killing Brenner and all of the surrounding soldiers in his area (including [[We Have Reserves|many of Greyfield's own New Rubinelle forces]].}}

** While in the second game, the Soviets are [[Affably Evil|more quirky]], they cross this line in the Allied campaign when General Vladimir nukes the city of Chicago, just as you won the city back.

** If it turns out there was one person behind skeletron, wall of flesh, and the other monsters they would automatically cross the moral event horizon, due to just how much they screwed up people.

* There are several opportunities for the player to achieve this in the classic RPG [[Arcanum]]. One involves siding with [[Big Bad|Kerghan]] in the finale, which immediately causes any good-aligned party members to accuse you of being a [[What the Hell, Hero?|traitorous bastard]] and attack you. Kerghan then tasks you with killing off his demonic competition in The Void, before finally helping you [[The End of the World as We Know It|wipe out all life]] in Arcanum. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JibJM_hEpz4 Depressing stuff indeed.]

* Did you fail to collect all the chaos emeralds at the end of the Game Gear version of ''[[Sonic the Hedgehog 2]]''? If so, then {{spoiler|Tails will be held prisoner indefinitely by [[Mad Scientist|Dr. Robotnik]], where he will presumably be killed, [[Fate Worse Than Death|or worse]]}}. Definitely ''not'' something we'd expect from the [[Affably Evil|Robotnik]] we know form the games.

* ''[[Saints Row]]'' has several of these crisscrossing one another, on both your side and the side of the enemy gangs and police. {{spoiler|Julius blowing you up. Shogo ordering the interrogation and death of Aishia. Johnny Gat burying Shogo alive for it. Mareo and Jessica having Carlos strapped to the back bumper of a truck and dragged through the street face-first. Mr. Sunshine getting everyone's attention by macheteing some poor bastard in the back as he listened to music. Dexter selling out to Ultor and trying to kill you numerous times. Mr. Sharp killing Lin. STAG staging a terrorist incident then trying to blow up Steelport. Killbane snapping Kiki's neck right in front of her twin sister. But the Boss, being the player character, gets the most. The Boss kills Jessica by making her boyfriend mistakenly drive a monster truck over a car she is trapped in, crippled the hand of a musician and tattoo artist who's only guilt was by association, manipulated an otherwise innocent Donny over the course of two games, shoots Julius, gets involved in human trafficking, has the option of weaponizing a zombie virus and can in one game ending take over a city and make it secede from the United States, which will no doubt bring retribution down on everyone they know and the innocent civilians living there.}} These are not nice people we are dealing with, here.

 

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