Moral Event Horizon/Video Games: Difference between revisions

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* Sephiroth (pictured at the right) in ''[[Final Fantasy VII]]'' is initially shown to be quite sympathetic despite Cloud's hatred of him. He saves the party at Shinra HQ and seems to be working against the Evil Corporation finding the Promised Land. Even during Cloud's flashback, when you discover that he's not entirely human (his Mom, Jenova is actually a feminine alien in a tank), he remains worthy of pity. But then he goes crazy and burns down Cloud's entire hometown, killing Cloud's mom and Tifa's dad among others, as well as almost killing the devastated Tifa when she lost it and tried to take revenge for her father. And if that wasn't enough of a horizon crossing for you and you're still somewhat willing to feel sorry for him due to the fact that his actions were committed out of a mental breakdown rather than genuine malice, there's always the part where [[It Was His Sled|he murders Aerith]] (also pictured at the right) pretty much [[For the Evulz]]. Now we must [[Kill It with Fire|kill him with fire!]]

*** Or, that anyone can be redeemed - ''if they make the choice to do so.'' Slaughtering half your party and capping it off by cutting down the teenager who looks up to you as a parental figure pretty much means you've taken your [[Last Second Chance]] and spaced it.

**** Or not. What really breaks the Aesop is that the extra scene where Carth could convince you to pull [[Redemption Equals Death]] was removed.

** To elaborate, prior to {{spoiler|Tarsonis}}, Mengsk has only used the psi-emitters on Confederate troops. Letting the [[Horde of Alien Locusts]] eat your enemies? That's a [[Kick the Dog]] for sure, but could be justifiable. {{spoiler|Calling said Alien Locusts to a planet with not only military forces, but with ''hundreds of millions of innocents'' on it, and then sitting back and watching the slaughter? That's this trope.}} Kerrigan (very loyal to Arcturus) even calls him on it. {{spoiler|Unfortunately, that causes him to decide that Kerrigan [[You Have Outlived Your Usefulness|has outlived her usefulness]], and leave her to the Zerg as well.}}

*** {{spoiler|And, in Starcraft 2, guess what Raynor has now told EVERYONE? This is out, and Mengsk is now approaching 0% approval rating.}}

** Malygos crosses the Moral Event Horizon when the player, after defeating one of his minions, {{spoiler|finds a letter that reveals that he forced them to work for him under the threat of their family being killed}}. Like Deathwing, when Alexstraza learns of his plans, she sadly decides that he is beyond redemption, and decides to kill him to save Azeroth.

** [[World of Warcraft|Sylvanas Windrunner]] has [[Crosses the Line Twice|crossed the line so many times that she plays double-dutch with it]], and despite some Warcraft fans remaining loyal to her and claiming she hasn't done anything wrong because [[Well-Intentioned Extremist|"it's for the good of her 'people'"]], many more have found her to be irredeemably evil. She has committed so many atrocities that it would actually be much easier to list what she hasn't done. She has: killed civilians, killed children, experimented on children with biological weapons, used biological weapons on civilian towns, committed genocide, [[Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking|disobeyed direct orders]], [[You Will Be Assimilated|reanimated the men that she has killed into more Forsaken]], kidnapped, taken hostages, invaded foreign countries, framed a Foraken man who may or may not have committed a crime and then tested biological weapons against him, mind-controlled a Death Knight (essentially a volunteer Horde warrior), used propaganda, and set herself up as the object of cult worship. If Sylvanas sees a line to be crossed, she gleefully cartwheels over it.

** While we all knew Dahlia was a [[Bitch in Sheep's Clothing]] from the moment she popped up, her status as a monster wasn't fully confirmed until the flashback case where {{spoiler|she convinces Terry Fawles (implied to be mentally disabled) into killing himself because he doubted that she loved him. This is after framing him for murdering her and later her sister.}}

* In ''[[Suikoden V]]'', the villains had toed the line between reasonable and malicious up until they sent assassins to wipe out the beavers, for no reason other than a desire to remove all ethnic diversity from the kingdom. After that, they were just plain evil.

* Dr. Suchong from ''[[BioShock (series)]]'' at first seems like a very slimy scientist with a [[Morally-Ambiguous Doctorate]], but no worse than any of the other psychos running around Rapture. Then comes [[The Reveal]] audiodiary: {{spoiler|"Break that sweet puppy's neck, would you kindly?"}}. After that, his eventual [[Karmic Death]] is fully justified.

** The game, meanwhile, will conclude that the ''player'' has crossed the line if {{spoiler|you kill more than two Little Sisters. So, no, by the time Tennenbaum takes you in and says there may be hope for you yet, there isn't. Given that you're killing brainwashed little girls who can't help themselves, it's justified.}}

** However, truly special mention must be made to Dr. Sofia Lamb of the sequel. The opening cutscene is you bringing your Little Sister, Eleanor Lamb around on a gathering expedition, and being attacked by a group of splicers as is normal. Then the good Doc Lamb shows up. {{spoiler|after her minions cast Hypnotize on you, she forces you to ''shoot yourself in the head. While her daughter watches in [[Break the Cutie|increasing horror]]''.}}

** Possibly topped by {{spoiler|what Sofia Lamb does to your buddy [[Mission Control|Augustus Sinclair]]. Capturing him and turning him into an [[Super Prototype|Alpha-Series Big Daddy]], except his mind is still awake and aware. During the last level, you have to work your way through the multiple defenses Sinclair's body has set up... all while Sinclair's mind/voice is radioing you, [[Apologetic Attacker|apologizing for everything]], [[I Cannot Self-Terminate|telling you to kill him]], and saying he enjoyed the time spent helping you throughout the game. When you finally manage to take him down, he [[Dying as Yourself|thanks you]] [[Tear Jerker|as he dies]]}}.

*** Her [[Moral Event Horizon]] may have come even earlier when {{spoiler|Lamb ''smothers Eleanor with a pillow'' to put Delta in a coma}} or when {{spoiler|she captures Mark Metzer, a character that a lot of fans liked due to his exploits on the viral marketing site "Something in the Sea" and forces him to become a Big Daddy. Which the player will almost certainly kill}}.

** Stanley Pool is just as bad, in a horrible,fat toad sort of way. Not only does he turn Dionysis Park into a den of vice after being given control over the district, but he prevents Eleanor from reporting this by kidnapping her and giving her to the Little Sister program. Then, when Sofia escapes from prison, he decides silence any remaining witnesses by sabotaging the district's pressure systems, drowning just about everyone left in the area. Is it any wonder that [[Earn Your Happy Ending|getting the game's best ending]] requires you to [[Asshole Victim|kill the despicable jerk?]]

** And that's just the player, too. For other line-crossers, there's Mister Burke for wanting to have Megaton blown sky-high despite being ordered to evacuate everyone, Dr. Braun for his entire Vault 112 set-up, Roy Phillips {{spoiler|butchering every last human in Tenpenny Tower even if you convince Mr. Tenpenny to allow him to stay}}, and Colonel Autumn {{spoiler|murdering an innocent scientist in cold blood just because James was taking too long to give him the Project Purity code}}.

* In [[Fallout: New Vegas]] the player can cross this. YMMV if the [[Moral Event Horizon]] goes to selling your friend into slavery, letting Mortimer, a high class cannibal, use one of your human companions as the main course of a banquet, or teaming up with the Powder Gangers to destroy Goodsprings and kill everyone in it, including the guy who saved your life. [[Video Game Cruelty Potential|Or other things.]]

** The reason {{spoiler|Tai}} commits suicide is his religion believes that the soul can leave the body before death, and this is what happened during the torture. After he was free, his body was soulless so {{spoiler|Tai}} saw no point in having earthly remains.

** {{spoiler|Not even humans in the military, or humans who were armed. Every human they came across they either killed or tortured, and nobody knows why. [[Player Punch|The scene with Maria...]] well. [[Tear Jerker|It drives the point home.]]}}

* Lieutenant Virgil from ''[[Xenosaga]]'' was a [[Jerkass]] from the start, but crosses the Moral Event Horizon when he ''blows up'' some [[Artificial Human|Realians]] for no better reason than that there's some chance it might buy some time, and talks cheerfully about how he loves eating their flesh. When he dies shortly thereafter, Shion still cares, but the player most likely doesn't.

** {{spoiler|In the third game, his abject hatred of Realians and even his cannibalistic tendencies are made a bit more forgivable when you learn about his backstory with Febronia. His final scene in particular almost tips him into [[Jerkass Woobie]] territory...of course, [[Your Mileage May Vary]]}}

** One could argue that {{spoiler|Alexei}} crossed the line worse then Ragou and Cumore. {{spoiler|First, he's responsible for most (but not all) of the previous two's actions. That alone makes him pretty evil, but ''then'' he orchestrates an attack on Nordopolica and has Flynn, Harry Whitehorse (The Don's son) and the Hunting Blades take the fall. This leads to one major Guild leader being turned into a monster that the party [[Mercy Kill|has to kill]], Flynn and his brigade shamed, and tensions in the Guild Union rising to a boiling point, leading to the Don committing honorable suicide in order to both save Harry and prevent a civil war.}} Oh, and ''then'' we learn that {{spoiler|he resurrected Raven against his will and forced him to be his slave/errand boy}}. And then, as the icing of a very vile cake, {{spoiler|he forces Raven to kidnap Estelle, and then proceeds to [[Mind Rape]] her to such a point that he'd give ''[[Neon Genesis Evangelion]]'' a run for its money}}. Did I mention that {{spoiler|the [[Mind Rape]] was so horrible that Estelle eventually lost complete control of her body (but not her mind), essentially literally making her a puppet for Alexei to control?}} Yeah, Vesperia pulled no punches in regards to pure evil villains...

** In ''Symphonia'', Rodyle crosses the [[Moral Event Horizon]] when he floods a passageway full of escaping prisoners, killing them all, in order to prevent the heroes from reaching the Mana Cannon.

*** While he's [[Anti-Villain|not as reprehensible]], the [[Big Bad]] {{spoiler|Van Grants crosses this himself by using Luke--someone who truly looked up to him by the way--to destroy Akzeriuth.}}

* In ''[[Infamous (video game series)|In Famous]]'' the player is given a karma choice. {{spoiler|Either destroy the Ray Sphere and become a hero to all, or activate the Ray Sphere and become so evil that you can never be redeemed.}} You become literally irredeemable: the [[Karma Meter]] sets to its most evil setting and sticks there ''permanently''.

** In case if [[Complete Monster|T.K.]] from the sequel didn't come off as vile enough for {{spoiler|starting the Fortune City outbreak so he can loot the casinos}}, he makes sure you hate him when {{spoiler|he captures Chuck's friend Stacey and daughter Katey and tries to lower them into a pit of zombies despite Chuck having given him Zombrex after being bitten!}}

* [[Complete Monster|Kartikeya]] of ''[[Wild ARMs 5]]'' seems at first your typical [[Psycho for Hire]], first shown killing enemy troops after they'd already surrendered, nothing too special here. An element of [[It's Personal]] is introduced when Greg reveals that Kartikeya killed his wife and son for no real reason, but that's still on this side of the line. When Greg finally does confront him? {{spoiler|Kartikeya has no idea who Greg is, and has to have the whole incident retold for him to remember it at all. [[But for Me It Was Tuesday|The man brutally destroys lives so casually that there is simply no telling how many people he's murdered for a laugh.]]}} The [[Moral Event Horizon]] is now crossed.

** "I don't ''have'' to kill them. It just stops them from wriggling too much.''

* The Hamlet special forces unit from ''[[Ace Combat]] X: Skies of Deception'' unleashes a biochemical agent on the innocent city of Santa Elva in order to kill civilians. It's a bit hard to feel sympathetic for the Leasath military after that.

** Before then, his sadistic torture of Guybrush in the final areas of ''Monkey Island 2''.

* {{spoiler|Ninetails}} from ''[[Okami]]'' has all the marks of a very cool villain: sly, sneaky, [[Evil Counterpart]] to Ammy ({{spoiler|even has his own Brush Techniques... with nine tails!}}) and an awe-striking battle. All of this is negated by it {{spoiler|horribly murdering the innocent, beloved priestess Rao and stuffing her body down a well in order to deceive the populace, Ammy included.}} And then, once it had accomplished its goals, it {{spoiler|drove Queen Himiko to her own death}}. Whereas other Demon Lords are traditional villains ([[Orochi]] at least let people live their own lives, provided they yielded the [[Virgin Sacrifice|yearly sacrifice]],) {{spoiler|Ninetails}} is an irredeemable, hateful, [[Complete Monster]].

** You, the player, cross the [[Moral Event Horizon]] during the famous level "No Russian." {{spoiler|Masquerading as a Russian terrorist to infiltrate [[Complete Monster|Makarov's]] gang, you and he march through an airport and slaughter hundreds of civilians with automatic weapons.}} General Shepherd tells you in the mission briefing "This will cost you a piece of yourself," and [[Player Punch|he is not joking.]] Even though you ''do'' have the option to ''not'' shoot the civilians (you can either not shoot at all or purposely shoot over their heads), it doesn't excuse the dozens of SWAT cops you gun down on your way out.

*** And the kicker is you can't even [[Take a Third Option|prevent the massacre by gunning down the terrorists instead]], because doing so [[But Thou Must!|gives you a]] [[Nonstandard Game Over]].

* Now, murder is a pretty bad thing in ''[[Ghost Trick]]'', but with Sissel on the job it's not a big deal until we find out how {{spoiler|Alma, Jowd's wife and Kamilla's mother}} died. {{spoiler|[[Moe Moe|Kamilla]] built a birthday contraption to surprise her when she turned on the lights, then hid in the cabinets. Yomiel then manipulated the contraption to kill Alma with an antique gun hanging nearby. Kamilla saw her mother die in front of her, believed it was her own fault, and lost her father when he took the fall by confessing to the murder to protect her.}}

** {{spoiler|Commander Sith}} also takes one when he backstabs {{spoiler|Yomiel by tricking his spirit into leaving his body for another part of the sub, removing the Temsik meteorite, and sinking the sub. This would condemn Yomiel to an eternity in crushing darkness, completely alone without even a body to move with. And his only reasoning is [[You Have Outlived Your Usefulness]]. Since we feel a little sorry for Yomiel by this point, it doesn't feel like karma.}}

** The part where {{spoiler|Lynch has a psychotic episode and shoots Yoko, effectively ensuring that Kane's family will be killed,}} definitely counts. Made even worse when, instead of apologizing or something, he refuses to take responsibility and yells at Kane for negotiating deals with the enemy.

* In ''[[The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time|Ocarina of Time]]'' it's hard to tell where Ganondorf crosses this line, but it's probably {{spoiler|at trying to have several Gorons fed to a dragon as a "warning" to those who would oppose him. Sure, killing the [[Wise Tree|Great Deku Tree]] to steal what it was keeping from him or deceiving the established authorities as a means of power are [[Kick the Dog|evil actions]], but attempting to massacre several members of a peaceful tribe when he GETS his power is far worse.}}

*** {{spoiler|Yuga, however, crosses this by doing the same thing, but with selfish intentions in mind by dooming both worlds to die for his greed, and manipulating Hilda into helping him do it.}}

* Kyoji Nanba of ''[[Racing Lagoon]]'' gets depressed as he's defeated by Sho Akasaki(you) and lose his chance to race in the Yokohama GP. {{spoiler|He then takes a diablo-tuned car and gets himself killed.}}

** Terumi:

*** created the [[Orochi|Black]] [[Eldritch Abomination|Beast]] that ravaged the world for years, joined the Six Heroes to defeat it when he realized it couldn't be controlled... then betrayed them and killed Nine, Kokonoe's mother, when she learned about his involvement in the Black Beast's creation.

*** burned down the orphanage where Ragna and his siblings were living, kidnapped Ragna's sister, Saya, possessed Ragna's brother, Jin and, through him, cut off Ragna's right arm, and ate Jin's memories; finishing the ordeal by murdering Nine's sister, Mercury, who had been running the orphanage.

*** {{spoiler|[[Manipulative Bastard|uses Litchi's desperation to cure Arakune]], as well as her own [[The Corruption|worsening condition]], to encourage her into a reluctant [[Face Heel Turn]].}}

*** {{spoiler|mocks a blind Tsubaki and tells her that all of the things that have happened to her are basically her own fault, and in another ending, plays unmercifully on her [[Green-Eyed Monster|jealousy of Noel]] to pit her against both Noel, her best friend, and Jin, her one true love}}. Oh, and we're nowhere near finished yet. {{spoiler|In Tsubaki's bad ending, she dies from overuse of the Izayoi, and he ''laughs at her''. In the ''Wheel of Fortune'' drama CD, he does this again when she dies, and also '''''kicks her dead body'''''}}.

*** Then there's Carl's bad ending in CS, where {{spoiler|Hazama rips Ada apart while a helpless Carl cries and begs for him to stop. Hazama then picks up Carl by his collar, delivers a brutal [[Hannibal Lecture]] to him, and ends by [[Would Hurt a Child|killing Carl by tossing him into the Cauldron]]. It's non-canon, but still}}.

* In ''[[Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater]]'', Colonel Volgin crosses this right after he's introduced. {{spoiler|The Boss}} gave him two Davy Crockett portable nuclear warheads as a "gift" when she defected, and he decides to take one on a test-drive, blowing up the research facility (where thousands of his own countrymen were still stationed) while Ocelot clings to his arm, ''begging him not to''. When one of the greatest [[Magnificent Bastard|Magnificent Jerk-faced Jerks]] in history [[Even Evil Has Standards|thinks you've gone so far over the line that he's begging you to stop]], you know you've crossed the line big time.

** Even Volgin is small time compared to the one behind most of the Metal Gear Solid series, {{spoiler|Major Zero. Although his status as a villain is only revealed in the final (for that storyline anyways) game, when it is the implications of so much of what this man has done becomes apparent. Not only did he create a shadow organization meant to control every facet of human life, but he created a system meant to completely subjugate and ultimately enslave humanity in a cyclical hell of controlled military conflict for generations to come, simply because he felt sour about bitter differences between himself and Big Boss. And on top of that, he attempted to destroy and manipulate his former friend with a variety of despicable tactics, such as threatening and manipulating a Costa Rican-American girl to become a crazed agent and saboteur in order to destroy Big Boss' reputation. It was also enough to cause Kazuhira Miller, who briefly with Zero as a means to expand MSF, to have implied to quit working with him out of disgust for nearly ruining MSF. It's uncertain where exactly Zero crossed that moral event horizon, but he certainly did. So did most of Big Boss' former "friends", save Ocelot and EVA.}}

** Vamp in ''[[Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty]]'' crosses it when {{spoiler|he murders Otacon's sister, Emma}}.

** In the first ''[[Metal Gear Solid]]'', Liquid Snake is pretty much an evil son-of-a-bitch from the beginning, but {{spoiler|the kid gloves are off when it's revealed that he was impersonating Master Miller after having him killed.}}

{{quote|{{spoiler|'''Erika''': ''"I dashed all over the mansion, visited all the 'crime' scenes, and...completely severed their heads... All five people I killed......were very much alive and faithfully playing dead until the moment I killed them."''}}}}

* ''[[Pokémon Black and White]]'': {{spoiler|Ghetsis, Ghetsis, Ghetsis... why, oh why, did you have to base your parenting off of [[Disgaea 3: Absence of Justice|Super Hero Aurum?]] You neglected your own boy, left him amongst abused Pokemon to fuck up his perception of the world, raised him to believe Pokemon should be separated from humans, and gave him control over a group that only knew of his ideal. I don't blame you for leaving the kid amongst those Pokemon - [[Pokémon Diamond and Pearl Adventure|Prof. Rowan once went that route for his studies]], [[Pokémon Special|and Sapphire chose to live amongst them of her own will]] - but what I DO blame you for is most of the rest. But that you'd abandon your kid after his failure to perform, call him a blasphemy upon mankind for the very way ''you'' raised him, and basically go against everything you ever taught him (which you never really believed in) just for self-profit? Yeah... you can rot in jail for the rest of your life, Hell is too good for you.}}

*** Ghetsis is basically running neck-in-neck with the heads of the Cipher syndicate conspiracy for the title of biggest human [[Complete Monster]] in the franchise both in terms of horrific deeds (which we're discussing here) and the potential for the continuation of such horrific deeds. See the main ''[[Pokémon Colosseum]]'' page for the further gruesome details on Cipher's many sins.

** Also in the running would be Purple Eyes from ''[[Pokémon Ranger]] Guardian Signs''. Before we even learn he exists, he's beaten Rand within an inch of his life and kidnapped both his wife and daughter. Later, he beats the daughter up, too! He kept getting worse up until he thought [[Do Not Taunt Cthulhu|it would be a good idea to bark orders at Arceus]] - at which point [[Laser-Guided Karma|he dearly paid for it]].

** From ''[[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon]]'': {{spoiler|Darkrai has a few opportunities, the earliest being orchestrating the planet's paralysis, making [[Crapsack World|the future a frozen, endless night, with insane Pokemon and which is ruled by Primal Dialga]], and the one way to stop the paralysis would cause all life from the future to disappear.}}

** Let's not forget Cyrus from Gen IV, whose plan was literally to control the powers of time/space and use them to ''wipe out the entire universe and all life in it'' so that he could then become a deity and recreate reality as he saw fit, which would be a reality without spirit, meaning all living creatures would now exist with no emotions, free thought, or free will. Granted he believed this to be in humanity's best interest, but it's still a sick and horrifying goal that he wanted to force on others. The lengths he took in the name of this goal were not pretty either, especially his plan with the Galactic Bomb and the torture of the three lake Pokemon in order to create the Red Chain.

{{quote|{{spoiler|'''Raspberyl''': What kind of nerves do you have?! It's beyond [[Card-Carrying Villain|honor student]] level.}}}}

* In literally the first scene of ''[[Suikoden II]]'' where we see Luca Blight, he has just finished massacring almost all the members of a Youth Brigade camp (read: basically fantasy Boy Scouts) so that he can frame a neighboring country for the deed and get the people's support for a campaign of slaughter, rape, and pillage. [[Complete Monster|And he only gets worse from there]].

** And then it's followed by {{spoiler|Nergal giving a kidnapped Ninian a brutal [[Hannibal Lecture]] in which he browbeats and verbally abuses her into reverting to her Dragon form, setting her loose so she would be slain by Eliwood without him knowing it (and under the control of the Durandal sword, made for killing dragons), and then not only revealing it to Eliwood as Ninian agonizes in his arms, but '''laughing about it'''. Did we mention that it's all but stated that ''Ninian is his long-lost daughter''? Not even the fact that [[The Dark Side Will Make You Forget|he lost his memories]] is good enough to get him off the hook for that, considering his glee when he tells Eliwood that he's fatally injured the girl who loved him.}}

** And then we have {{spoiler|King Desmond of Bern}}, who orders the Black Fang to carry out {{spoiler|the murder of his own son and heir Zephiel, due to hating how the child of his much hated wife [[Hot Consort|Hellene]] is the one able to inherit the throne [[Parental Favoritism|instead of his favorite child]] [[Heir Club for Men|Guinevere]].}} Is there any wonder that {{spoiler|Zephiel and Guinevere's relatonship, until then friendly and cute, [[Cain and Abel|would be broken beyond belief]] after [[Used to Be a Sweet Kid|the embittered Zephiel grows into a]] faithless [[Social Darwinist]]}}?

* Curtis Blackburn of ''[[Killer7]]'' is a murderous sociopath, but hey, you're playing as a group of assassins. Then you see [[Adult Fear|what he did to his ex-partner Pedro]] as punishment for getting in his way, and suddenly he becomes the worst person in the entire game.

* The ''[[Mass Effect]]'' series tends strongly towards ambiguity, but there are still some cases where a line to ultimate unredeemable evil is crossed.

* Therese Voerman from ''[[Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines]]'' Crosses this when after you become an inconvenience to her, attempts to {{spoiler|murder you and her sister, Jeanette. Her excuse for Jeanette? She was a slut. You can help her step back from the edge, though, although it takes a ridiculously high persuasion check. Or you could convince Jeanette to kill Therese instead, although she feels geniunly remorseful.}} Although, she might have crossed it way, way, way before then...

** This is a weird one, since Therese and Jeanette {{spoiler|are split personalities that were created when Therese/Jeanette was turned into a Malkavian. They aren't sisters, they are the same person.}}

* In ''[[Red Dead Redemption]]'', Edgar Ross, when he's first seen in the opening cutscene, merely seems to be a bureaucrat making John hunt down his former gang members. When you finally get ahold of Escuella in Mexico, he definitely seems to be an awful individual, especially since he is the one imprisoning John's family. When dealing with him personally in Blackwater, he continues to build his [[Jerkass]] points for every second he's onscreen, constantly insulting and mocking John, and at one point shoving a gun into John's stomach just to remind him that he can do whatever he wants, and John can't do a thing about it. However, once John takes care of all of the former outlaws he ran with, Ross lets him go, and John is finally allowed to return back to his family, who is unharmed. But... {{spoiler|when he really crosses the line is when he orders the army to assault Marston's farm, culminating in John's death}}. Before this point, he was simply a thoroughly unlikable man who hated John. After this, he crossed the line.

* In ''[[Myst]] IV: Revelation'', {{spoiler|Sirrus kidnaps Yeesha for [[Grand Theft Me]] purposes and ''boasts to her of his plan''}}.

** In the novel ''Book of D'ni'', Ymur is another [[Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds]] until {{spoiler|he tries to become the new Master, in the same barbaric vein as the Terahnee enslaved ahrotantee}}.

* Megatron In ''[[Transformers]]'':''[[War for Cybertron]]'' he warns the Autobots to leave Cybertron or be destroyed, and when the Autobots began leaving the Cybertron in spaceships, {{spoiler|he has Trypticon blast them out of the atmosphere for no reason what so ever.}}

* ''[[Killzone]]'' [[Omnicidal Maniac|Stahl]] {{spoiler|1=who uses POWs as test subjects for his Petrusite experiments, or shooting an ISA prisoner just to show what its like in Helghast. Then he destroys the Helghan fleet with his Petrusite weapons to show that he's in charge now, and plans to use it on Earth and possibly every other colonized world.}}

* In ''[[Silent Hill 3]]'', Claudia crosses this when she {{spoiler|has Harry killed}}. She certainly seems to think so, as she straight-up tells Heather that she doesn't expect to have a place in the paradise she's trying to create.

{{quote|"For the pain that I've caused you, I deserve no mercy. Even if it was to save mankind, it was too deep a sin."}}

* In ''[[Skies of Arcadia]]'', Lord Galcian gains the ability destroy any or all of the lands underneath the Six Moons. To display his newfound power, he {{spoiler|summons the Rains of Destruction from the Yellow Moon. What is underneath the Yellow Moon? Valua, the most technologically advanced land in Arcadia, and it just so happens to be Galcian's home land as well! Galcian figured that if the most powerful country in the world could be reduced to ashes in no time, the rest would fall to him.}} What is amazing about this is that the {{spoiler|Valuan army, the army of the country that he just wiped off the map}} continue to stick with him as Galcian is that much of a [[Magnificent Bastard]].

* It's very easy to hate Admiral Greyfield in ''[[Advance Wars]]: Days of Ruin'', although the clincher is when {{spoiler|Forsythe, the [[Anti-Villain|honorable]] general}} of the enemy Lazurian Army, surrenders to him and takes responsibility for all of the bad things his troops have done. Greyfield's reaction? {{spoiler|He kills Forsythe and captures his army, threatening to execute them all. Soon afterward, when he finds out that Brenner is helping the Lazurians escape from captivity, Greyfield carpet bombs his position, killing Brenner and all of the surrounding soldiers in his area (including [[We Have Reserves|many of Greyfield's own New Rubinelle forces]].}}

* [[The Covenant]] from the ''[[Halo]]'' series have murdered BILLIONS. For an In-Game crossing, the entirety of [[Halo: Reach]] is probably it, particularly during the mission Exodus when they shoot down a ship that had 600 innocent people on it. After that, no one wonders why people have fun killing the alien jerks.

** In ''[[Halo: Combat Evolved]]'', [[Big Bad|343 Guilty Spark]] is a [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]] (with emphasis on extreme), however, at the end of ''Halo 3'', Spark goes [[Complete Monster]] and {{spoiler|murders Sgt. Johnson}}.