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Old School Dogfighting: Difference between revisions
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{{quote|'''Biggs:''' Luke, at that speed will you be able to pull out in time?
'''Luke:''' It'll be just like Beggar's Canyon back home. Pop the ailerons, bank into the turns ...
'''Biggs:''' Luke, you dweeb! You can't manoeuvre like that! There's no ''air'' out here!
|''[[Irregular Webcomic]]'', strip [http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/573.html 573].}}
When a lot of science fiction authors attempt to portray fighters in space, they tend to rely too much on the nature of terrestrial aircraft as a
Since space is a near-perfect vacuum, there's hardly any pressure; starfighters can't rely on rudders, elevators, or ailerons to maneuver, though they don't have to worry about lift or (significant) friction either. Spaceships maneuver in space purely through use of thrust (or some equivalent) to accelerate in a given direction; with no air resistance, they can cut their thrusters and coast until a change in speed and direction is needed.
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There's also the issue of gravity. Fighter aircraft in the Earth's atmosphere utilize gravity-assisted turning maneuvers like the High-Speed Yoyo, Low-Speed Yoyo, Barrel Roll Turn, Split S, and the Immelmann turn. There's also a whole school of thought in fighter combat called the "energy fight," where fighter pilots utilize the Earth's gravity to assist in outmaneuvering their opponents. In space, where gravitational pull is much more subtle, these tactics are of decidedly less utility.
But the simple fact is that most audiences are more familiar with flight in atmosphere than they are in a vacuum. Hence,
When an author pulls this on the audience, there's a few reasons why it happened:
* It's deliberate [[Artistic License]], as was the case for [[George Lucas]] concerning ''[[Star Wars]]'', or...
* It's a case of [[Follow the Leader]] and/or [[Did Not Do the Research]], with people blindly following the example of ''[[Star Wars]]''.
* It's a shout out to another work (such as [[Star Wars]].)
This trope tends to happen more often in visual media; science fiction literature (when it's not an adaption of a TV/Movie/Video game) tends to portray starfighter combat more realistically (if they show it at all).
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Old School Dogfights are a subtrope of the [[Space Battle]].
{{examples}}
== [[Anime]] and [[Manga]] ==
* [[Justified Trope]] in some ''[[Gundam]]'' continuities as [[Minovsky Physics|Minovsky Particle]] interference that scrambles most unshielded electronics (and most missiles are too small to fit sufficient shielding into), rendering most guided missiles more or less useless. In this case, it's more like old school infantry fighting, only bigger. Actual fighter planes, at least in space are uncommon & those that do appear are usually picked off easily by mobile suits due to the latter being more maneuverable & being able to field a larger & more powerful variety of weapons (in other words, really, [[Rule of Cool]]). The fighter jets do get a chance to shine in some of the original series' Earth-arc episodes, though.
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== [[Film]] ==
* The ''[[Lost in Space (film)|Lost in Space]]'' movie opened with the classic space dogfight.
* Though ''[[Star Wars]]'' uses this trope primarily for looks, in the background of the [[Expanded Universe]] it's [[Fan Wank|semi-justified for the most part]], as guided weaponry tend to be incredibly powerful, but rather expensive, and the load-out can be limited in comparison to the cheap and nigh-unlimited supply of <s>laser</s> <s>[[Call a Rabbit a Smeerp|blaster]]</s> [[Frickin' Laser Beams|turbolaser]] shots, meaning the only concern is lining up the target.
** As for the close range battles that tend to happen in the movies, explanations range from:
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*** Intense jamming (Battle of Yavin)
** As noted in the [[Irregular Webcomic]] link at the top of the page, the fighters tend to maneuver like they would in atmosphere using aerodynamic methods.
** [[Justified Trope|Justified]] in the [[Star Wars Expanded Universe|Expanded Universe]] material. Starfighters have built in repulsorlift fields which create a gravitational pull on the ship equivalent to atmospheric flight. This field allows the starfighter to move through
* Averted in ''[[The Last Starfighter]]''; the Gunstar was capable of 3-D maneuvering and orientation and global weapons rotation. It still relied on human reflexes, vision, and manual aiming methods, but this didn't translate into
* Averted in the ''[[Alien]]'' franchise. Any ship that is built like an Earth vessel is meant as a short range drop ship sort of thing, so it needs to run in the atmosphere. Anything else never enters atmosphere because they wouldn't survive the experience.
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** Despite the close-range Old School Dogfighting, the novelizations ''do'' try to fill in extreme range battles we don't see in the movies (like the Liberty's long-range battle before it was destroyed by the Death Star II). Still, Han Solo's inability to engage a single TIE-Fighter over the ruins of Alderaan because it was "out of range" during ''A New Hope'' clashes with all the justifying.
*** This is expanded upon in "Tyrant's Test," which explains that the Millennium Falcon's guns are generally only fitted to capital ships, which have no standard adaptation mounts for light freighters. Chewie even had to devise the control rig himself since the standard one wasn't intended to work with cockpit seat controls.
** Also of note: [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_starfighter Droid starfighters] exist. They're usually noted for having quicker response times than a human, and capable of maneuvers that would kill organic
** In the ''[[X Wing Series]]'', Rogue Squadron attempts to avert this trope whenever possible by using standoff tactics, thinning out approaching waves of enemy fighters using the superior range and tracking capabilities of their proton torpedoes. This is the primary reason why they are able to take out enemy formations ''three times'' their size.
** In one area this trope gets partially inverted: due to their design, TIE fighters are unable to fully apply
*** This is in fact Lampshaded in one book where Wedge is chasing a TIE fighter in space. Because it's only trying to evade him using vertical climbs and dives, Wedge can tell the pilot is a rookie who's only been trained in atmosphere, since the TIE fighter's inefficient aerodynamic design makes it incapable of complex maneuvers in atmosphere.
* Averted in the ''[[Bio of a Space Tyrant]]'' series by Piers Anthony. Many of the complications of battle in space are addressed, and the battles involve a lot of tactics that could only be employed in space.
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* Completely averted in ''[[Triplanetary]]'', in which formation fighting with battleships is the norm.
* Also averted in ''[[The Forever War]]'', in which hyperrelativistic combat is the primary mode of space combat we actually see at use in the story. While there are fighters, the act as highly mobile missile boats.
* In the ''[[Posleen War Series]]'', the sole [[Space Fighter]] scene averts this trope. The fighters in question using guided missiles to engage the enemy, and there's even an evasive maneuver that takes advantage of being able to change the direction one's pointing without changing vector until thrust is applied.
* In the ''[[Gaunt's Ghosts]]'' spinoff ''Double Eagle'', hyper advanced space fighters with vectored thrust engines and laser cannons are still mixing it up WWII style.
== [[Live
* ''[[Star Trek]]'' (especially [[Star Trek: The Original Series|
** To wit, ''The Original Series'' seems to have a more realistic approach in terms of distance. Likewise, you would hardly ever see both the ''Enterprise'' and the enemy vessel on screen at once, although this obviously has [[Stock Footage|completely different reasons]].
*** It should also be noted that ''[[Star Trek]]'' relies on [[Space Is an Ocean]] rather than Space Is ''[[Top Gun]]'', so the combat has a very different style than ''[[Star Wars]]''-esque dogfighting.
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*** What, as compared to Puddle-Jumpers and Darts, neither of which are all that aerodynamic, but both of which can not only fight in atmosphere, but '''travel through Stargates'''? The Goa'uld also invented a Stargate traveling Death Glider at one point, but due to the difficulty of "threading the needle" only master pilots were able to use them for that purpose.
* Averted in ''[[Andromeda]]''. Ship-to-ship combat takes place between two ships using fist-size, kinetic missiles that travel a significant percentage of the speed of light, with Anti-Proton cannons only used as close range and generally instant-kill weapons. However, in the Slipfighter scenes, most fighting is done with energy weapons, and it takes a long time for missiles to lock on to a target (presumably since they have sophisticated counter-measures), but when they do, they're generally one-hit kills.
* [[Justified Trope]] and mildly [[Averted Trope]] in the new ''[[Battlestar Galactica
** It seemed that the Raptors' missiles were unguided. This would require them to be fired at relatively close range, as seen in the show. It'd make
** One wonders if the Colonial restrictions on computer research have anything to do with the lack of "fire and forget" weapons in their arsenal, but the ''Galactica'' was one of the oldest battlestars in the fleet and was on the verge of being decommissioned at the start of the series.
** Another Battlestar is shown launching a ship-to-ship
** Also worth noting that the original ''Battlestar Galactica'' played this trope straight on nearly every episode.
*** Of course they did; they were using the same stock footage almost every time.
* Pretty much used in every episode of ''[[Buck Rogers in
*** There's also the fact that the Vipers are shown to be able to fly sideways or backwards, making another aversion.
* ''[[Space: Above and Beyond]]''. The Human SA-43 "Hammerhead" fighters had guns infront and behind so they could shoot at targets that wasn't in fount of them.
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== [[Tabletop Games]] ==
* Played straight, then averted in ''[[BattleTech]]''. Under the standard rules, aerospace fighters function much the same in either space or
* This trope is the entire purpose of the Warhammer40000-derived game Aeronautica Imperialis. The only guided missiles in the game are ground-attack-only weapons.
** The Imperium has access to Skystrike missiles for air-to-air combat, and Tau seeker missiles give them a distinct edge over other races, but for the most part the game plays this trope straight.
* Also inverted in the Warhammer40000-derived game ''[[Warhammer
== [[Video Games]] ==
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* ''[[Mass Effect]]'' neatly averts this; the only weapon that fighter-bombers carry are slow-moving disruptor torpedoes which can bypass kinetic barriers by moving at slow speeds to knock out enemy vessels; the only reason fighters are used is because the disruptors move slow enough to be picked off by point defense weapons. Interceptor fighters, equipped with smaller, lighter missiles intended to target enemy fighter-bombers, are too weak to actually hurt shielded warships.
** The game's encyclopedia and several novels specifically mention that only humans had the big idea of building dedicated carrier ships. Prior to this, most of the Citadel species used organic fighter support, with every cruiser or dreadnought carrying its own fighter and bomber complement.
** Another entry in the encyclopedia describes "modern" ship-to-ship space combat. It starts with dreadnoughts exchanging artillery fire at extreme ranges. The fleets then close in to medium range with destroyers, frigates, and cruisers pitching in their firepower. Close range is rare, as only battle-hardened commanders would be willing to close in for the kill, especially without the support of dreadnoughts, whose weapons are useless at close range (which explains why the ''Destiny Ascension'', the most powerful ship of the Citadel fleet, was crippled by the Geth fleet and ''Sovereign''
** While Joker ''does'' bank the ''Normandy'' like a fighter jet from time to time, he also [[Lampshade Hanging|points out]] that banking in a vacuum is hard. Presumably it's more complex than he makes it look; Joker is a ''damn good'' pilot.
* The ''[[Wing Commander (video game)|Wing Commander]]'' games employ most of this trope. The in-game flight mechanics of the series are not reminiscent of airplanes (they yaw instead of bank when they turn, for one), but they do enforce [[Space Friction]] and [[Chasing Your Tail]]. What's more, the flight mechanics do ''not'' change when fighting in a planet's atmosphere, making it seem more like ''Wing Commander'' has its own bizarre rules of reality for both air ''and'' space.
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* The original ''[[Descent]]'' series ''[[Inverted Trope|inverts]]'' this, as player ships and most enemies completely ignore gravity even though it takes place mostly in environments that would have at least ''some'' gravity (there is [[Space Friction]] where there shouldn't be, however). Ships have no need to maintain forward velocity and can hover or accelerate freely in any direction, making them more akin to gunships than fighters, and as such, "dogfighting" in open areas includes completely different maneuvers.
* In ''[[Project Sylpheed]]'' you can try to shoot down enemy fighters with your machine guns, but you start with a guided missile system mounted, and can research and mount several more. All of them are more effective at killing enemy fighters than guns, and most carry enough ammo that you won't need to resupply often. Your guns and other unguided weapons are most useful at shooting turrets, engines, and shield generators off capital ships. You can also cut your engines to glide on inertia, but most other aspects of the trope are played absolutely straight.
* [[Averted Trope]] in ''[[EVE Online]]''. Guided missiles are perfectly valid ship weaponry, and are preferred in some situations. Regular guns are mounted on turrets that track targets, so piloting your ship is important only in the strategic sense of where you want to be in a battle. Most major fleet engagements occur at ranges of up to
* In ''[[Homeworld]]'', strike craft based on the fighter chassis make strafing runs against their targets, whereas other craft will simply fly into weapons range and unload. Unlike this trope, however, they tend to maneuver by doing 180 degree turns and returning on the same path to their target.
* Sometimes averted in ''[[Ace Combat]] 3: Electrosphere''. Missiles are much more practical than guns (especially since [[Bottomless Magazines|you have an almost infinite supply]]) ... unless you're flying a ship that fires lasers instead of machine guns.
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* Averted in the adventure game ''Mission Critical'', where ships do use fighters alongside missiles, but human input has no place in combat when combat computers act orders of magnitude faster. One plot point involves a serum meant to put human input back in, strong AI having proved unattainable. You do ''not'' want to imagine what it has to do to people.
* ''[[Vega Strike]]'' currently features an interesting attempt at close combat in Newtonian physics ([[Faster-Than-Light Travel|FTL]] disables shields and doesn't work well [["No Warping" Zone|close to other ships]]), though not without dubious parameters for weapons and defences while [[Space Is Cold|ignoring the heat sinking problem]]. Dogfighting is possible, but not optimal: light craft tactics tends toward either high-velocity "jousting" passes or close-quarters strafing dance; even cheapest missiles has much greater effective range than guns or beams, though far launches are more likely to be jammed or shot.
* Averted in the ''[[Escape Velocity]]'' series, as in-game mechanics include inertia (unless you're piloting certain ships) with no [[Space Friction]]
* In ''[[Ace Online]]'', while ridiculously high-altitude and long-range missile combat is possible, war situations tend to move towards close-range combat for numerous reasons, including:
** [[Tank Goodness|A-gears]] in Siege Mode are capable of killing at extreme distances due to the [[More Dakka|volume of firepower]] they're capable of, especially if they have a unique build of Legendary Weapon called the [[Game Breaker|Hax-Smash]]. However, the minimum range on their weapons (which is affected by their armor) means that the best way to kill them aside from B-gear bombardment would be to approach low with an A-gear of your own while they are busy killing something else, and take them down from where their guns cannot lock on to you.
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** X3 proudly advertised its "newtonian" physics model, and certainly you do have a bit of drift when rapidly changing directions. However, it still works with the constant thrust = constant speed model, and you can't even disengage your thrusters to coast or rotate your ship while carried by your forward momentum.
** One minor part of the trope is averted, however: Ships maneuver using thrusters rather than some sort of space rudder. On small ships (particularly Split fighters) you can sometimes even see the thruster fire.
* ''[[
* ''[[Star Fox (series)|Star Fox]]'' is built on this trope, which shouldn't be surprising since the ships used are basically just the X-wings from [[Star Wars]]. Levels take place in open space, near the ground, or even near the surface of a sun, but the handling is always exactly the same.
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* On the other hand, the presence of guided missiles capable of being launched and directed from outside "eyeball range" makes Old School Dogfighting increasingly more rare in modern aerial combat. Still, old-fashioned pilot-to-pilot duels using close-range weaponry do happen from time to time.
** With each generation of new aircraft, someone has declared that dog fighting is a thing of the past, and they've always been wrong. It was so bad in the early 1960s that the US military had banned its pilots from practicing Air Combat Maneuvering, and designed the F-4 Phantom ''without a gun''. Then Vietnam happened.
* [[Zig-Zagging Trope|Zig-Zagged]] between the two World Wars. Air combat became far more elaborate in [[World War 2]] because of the introduction of new technologies, like radar which allowed earlier detection, radio which allowed closer coordination and more and more specialized aircraft designs. As well as such things as carriers. And on a more sinister level heavy bombers (town-burning in [[World War I]] was "innocent" by comparison). On the other hand the old school stuff like coming out of the sun, getting on the tail, etc remained. With the addendum that there were now so many plane types that finding advantages was something of a rock, paper, scissors game. For instance some fighters were "vertical" with good climb rates, dive rates, and ceiling, some were "horizontal" and could turn tighter, and some were just plain faster (Russians liked to give those to poorer pilots so that they could fight another day). Such differences of course were known in the First war but the number of models created more differences. One factor that was common in the Second war that wasn't known in the First, at least on the Western Front (where they spent their time fighting miserably over a little more mud) was that distances often made fuel a factor. Fighters at the end of their tanks simply couldn't maneuver.
{{reflist}}
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[[Category:The Fifties]]
[[Category:Space Does Not Work That Way]]
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