Star Trek (film)/Headscratchers: Difference between revisions

** Does anyone else wonder why the ''Narada'', a mining ship, was carrying sufficient ordnance to destroy 47 well armed Klingon warships, AND several Federation ships as well?

*** That could have been some of the mining equipment put to more industrious uses. True the ''Narada'' was a mining ship, but it was some 400 years ahead of its time. A modern bulldozer may not be a military vehicle, but take it back in time to the 1600's, use a little bit of imagination, and I bet you could do some serious damage.

**** Exactly. It was 2387 when the movie started, but the Narada travelled from the future...400 years later. So it's 400 years ahead of the rest of the galaxy.

**** The Narada was a (possibly Borg enhanced) Romulan mining ship from the year 2387 that was sent back to 2233. It attacked the Klingons in 2258, and at that time was 129 years more advanced. Just to clear things up.

*** Hell, a modern bulldozer ''now'' can be a military vehicle with only slight modifications. The Narada was the Killdozer ''[[In Space]]''!

*** The prequel comics mention that the ''Narada'' was fitted with prototype Romulan-Borg hybrid technology after the destruction of Romulus by the Vault's commander D'Spal.

*** It's a Romulan ship, they carry enough weapons to wipe out 47 Klingon fighters when they go out to the grocery store to pick up eggs.

** The ''Narada'' could've been designed to stay out for years at a time. Hence, they'd need a lot of water. It saves energy to not just replicate water whenever you need a drink.

** Spock demonstrates how a few well-placed energy blasts are enough to tear the whole drilling apparatus to bits. How can it be, then, than in the whole of Vulcan nobody thought "hmm, there's this huge needle-shaped thing drilling a hole in our planet, why don't we send a few fighters against it?"

*** Who said they had any fighters? And who said they didn't try and get blown up by Nero's ship?

 

** For that matter, why drill at all? If the red matter can create black holes all by itself, surely a missile containing a drop of it slamming on the surface of the planet (or hell, just blowing up a good distance away) would destroy it?

* If the new film is a [[Continuity Reboot]] (as it's looking to be) does this mean it's not "canon"? After all, if it's creating a new canon then it can't be part of the old canon. Did, in essence, the "official" ''Star Trek'' canon end on May 13, 2005?

** <s>As far as Paramount is concerned the movie is not a continuity reboot. But given we're not Paramount I might as well answer this. If it's going to be in its own continuity then it is still canon (but not with the earlier Trek series).</s>

*** So that means that every time we saw the timeline reset in a Trek episode that we thought had never happened, we were just switching over to a universe that was more to our liking? So somewhere in the space-time continuum ''Voyager'' really did crash into a Class-L planetoud because Harry screwed up the calculations, and he wasn't able to save them? There really is a timeline where Sisko was killed in that accident in "The Visitor," and one where Picard didn't survive his time with the Borg, and so on and so forth? And we're just choosing the one we like better? Well that's pretty cheap.

**** You basically summed up a rather good episode of TNG, where Worf kept skipping from one alternate universe to the next for some reason. Started with small changes early on, and by the end of the episode, we got to see an ''Enterprise'' which was severely damaged after the Borg conquered the Federation in ''Best Of Both Worlds'', complete with a desperate Captain Riker with a [[Beard of Sorrow]].

* What precisely is the timeline change moment in the new film? Its implied heavily that it was George Kirk being killed (hence why James Tiberius grows up to be Jimmy Dean instead of a [[William Shatner|large ham]]). But even before this, the command structure and technology of the USS Kelvin when it first encounters Nero's ship is way ahead of anything that would have been in the original series timeline at around the same time. So do we know exactly when the timeline diverged? Did it become an altered timeline the moment Nero's ship passed through the black hole (ala TNG episode "''Yesterday's Enterprise''")? I guess I would have just found all this timeline change stuff easier to swallow if the pre-timeline change ships looked (even vaguely) like they did in the 1960s series, so we've got some kind of "before" and "after". It really bugs me.

** Not really cannon, but I just decided that in addition to traveling backwards in time they also shifted over to a parallel dimension that, aside from slightly different technology, would have been almost identical had Nero not done his thing.

*** But this doesn't explain why Nero and Spock went back in time to the new Enterprise/First Contact timeline, rather than creating some weird, third timeline. And it also doesn't explain why the Enterprise E, when they went "back to the future" at the end of First Contact ended up in their original timeline to carry on their adventures in Insurrection and Nemesis. Nor does it explain the Enterprise finale, in which the events of Enterprise appear to have taken place in the same continuity as the Next Generation. All these timeline and alternate reality shenanigans make me think the Temporal Cold War from Enterprise makes a lot more sense now than it did at the time.

** I figure the seemingly more advanced technology of the Kelvin is like the technology of the Star Wars Prequel Trilogy. It certainly looks way ahead of the stuff that's supposed to come after it, but it isn't really.

 

* 2009 movie: Aside from the aesthetic differences, Earth in the 23rd century doesn't seem very different from Earth in the 20th century. Bars look and function in the same way, San Francisco Bay hasn't changed at all (take THAT, global warming!), the flag of the state of California is still in use, and people apparently still listen to the Beastie Boys.

** My theory is that it was a subversion of [[I Want My Jetpack]]. It was perhaps meant to be a more realistic vision of what the future would be like. Honestly, I could see that atmosphere happening in the 23rd century.

** Someone must've gone back in time and altered it. It must be -wait for it-''[[Incredibly Lame Pun|Sabotage]]''! Seriously, I could walk into a bar in 1809 and it'd still function pretty much the same way, except I'd be thrown out for being a Negro who came in through the front entrance. [[You All Meet in An Inn|Or maybe meet a Barbarian and a Bard.]]

*** There was at the very least that woman who yelled at McCoy in that shuttle, she was wearing pants.

** Yeah, that annoyed me too. It's not that bad when people are standing, but when female characters are trying to sit down, it just looks kind of... stupid. Uhura's got really long legs, too. Perhaps it's a normal length skirt made for short people. Skirts, I can understand. Miniskirts gotta be fanservice. (But the male uniforms aren't too bad either. Still, Uhura's legs.)

*** You're being sarcastic I hope?

**** [[Does Not Understand Sarcasm|Go buy a meter.]]

**** Wait, so pants couldn't hypothetically show off female leg to the same effect? You could keep the whole long tunic deal, just slap something under it. Bike shorts, even. (Also, nerdy question-- I can actually see why some female crew might ''prefer'' miniskirts, but if you wanted to, or your planet had a stronger nudity taboo, could you wear the male uniform?)

****** Except the first season of TNG, where they have miniskirts ''for the men''.

******* [http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo265/Blossom_Morphine/manskirt.gif Here for your viewing pleasure].

**** That particular transport had certain parameters that could easily be simplified if we're talking planet to another planet. Safely dropping into the middle of a ship obviously being one, could readily make a cleared out space with an order of magnitude more wiggle room. Especially since they had to drop into somewhere lightly populated to prevent immediate detection, and thus had to target a specific region of the ship. The fact Enterprise was going at warp and course corrections (due to various gravitational bodies along the way) happen all the time is another. How were they even tracking Enterprise for that matter? And if they were, what is the accuracy and tolerances of those devices? All would be expected to be improved from even nuTrek 2250's (especially a backwater listening post deep in Fed space)to the TNG era at least.

** Consider how much of the future we have to play with. Spock Prime comes from about twenty years after the end of Voyager. Scotty stumbled into the mid-24th century in his late 70s, in a time when humans living to 175 was common. Scotty had the time and the technology to solve the problem he may have tinkered with his whole life. As for why this may well [[Forgotten Phlebotinum|never show up again]], have you ever read something that made perfect sense, then come back to it later with little understanding of why it made sense? He'll definitely remember the targeting breakthrough, but a few of the simpler details he hadn't worked out yet [[No Plans, No Prototype, No Backup|may be lost for years]]. Also, it's hardly the safest way to travel, due to not being able to pinpoint where you end up at your target. Scotty just half-drowned and nearly got turned into Aberdeen Soup. He could just as easily have been materialized half-in a wall.

* More new film stuff: {{spoiler|exactly how does the destruction of Vulcan reduce the Vulcan population of the galaxy to -- what was it? 11,000? "Endangered species" my *** . Does this technologically advanced space-faring civilization not have, like, colonies? And what about Romulus in the 24th Century? No colonies there, either? Does this "alternate continuity" really expect me to believe that vast political entities called the Romulan Star Empire and the United Federation of Planets never got around colonizing any of the systems under their control?}}

** Considering how very Roman-esque the Romulans were, I'm assuming, even in the 24th century, with their home planet and capital destroyed, the heart had been cut out of the empire. Sure, they had colonies, but they'd be reduced pretty quickly into feuding houses I'll wager. As for Vulcan...your point stands. No idea. I'd expect a few hundred thousand populating other planets at the ''least''. Then again, they ''did'' seem very insular. I dunno. I got nothing.

*** Vulcans were always a very isolationist, traditionalist species. They probably don't have that many colonies set up, since everything they consider important is back home.

*** Also, don't forget that Vulcans are like salmon; they've got to go home to mate. That sort of thing would put a crimp in any long-term colonization projects.

*** Didn't Starfleet only learn that Vulcans and Romulans were so closely related in a TOS episode? I seem to recall Kirk's gang being surprised when they saw how similar Spock looked to some Romulans. So perhaps Vulcans before that time assumed that the exiles who fled to Romulus had simply died out, rather than built an empire, and young Spock had no idea such an offshoot of his own people existed.

**** Though of course this Spock noted the common ancestry between Romulans and Vulcans. [[Alternate Timeline]], I s'pose?

*** Which actually makes a lot of sense, at least for humans. The exact reason why is debated, but it is a cold hard fact that first-world economies, without exception, have little to no population growth (not including immigration), and some even have population decline. It's entirely possible that colonies take ''centuries'' to grow from the original few dozen colonists to a few hundred. It wouldn't surprise me if the human population in Star Trek was something like Earth: 5 billion, Colonies: 10,000. So of course most humans are going to be from Earth, then.

**** Specious reasoning - this is assuming dropping a bunch of people on a colony means they're not going to change breeding habits etc. One assumes that those going to set up colonies would be intent on the business of procreation.

* In the 2009 film, Young Kirk is displayed stealing a car and driving it off a cliff as a means of establishing what a reckless character this boy is. Firstly, this is several hundred years in the future, this is like stealing a horse and cart, it wouldn't be percieved as cool, it would be percieved as bizarre. Secondly, what is that car running on? It has been stated that in Star Trek, fossil based fuels are no longer used or produced, and gas goes bad if left in the tank for too long.

** Because, of couse, in [[Real Life]] the actions of kids who are angry at the authority figures in their lives are always perfectly explicable and never at the least bit bizarre.

** The backstory states that Kirk's grandfather was a collector of antique cars.

** But why the hell did Kirk have to drive the car off the cliff? OK, he was a rebellious youth but this was the equivilent of a teenager today stealing his grandfather's (probably one of a kind and therefore priceless) Ming Vase and destroying it for no other stated reason than he was full of piss and vinager?

*** They can make it better, stronger, faster... Wait, my bad. Wrong series.

** Compared to how long it was fired on Vulcan, the drill into San Francisco bay was only firing for a few minutes, probably not even long enough to really break the crust; there's probably a new oceanic trench underneath the Golden Gate Bridge, but nothing critical. They seem to have been firing into Vulcan for a while by the time Starfleet gets there.

** For that matter, why doesn't the falling HUGE drill (we're talking almost space elevator size, even if the head was halfway up) wipe out LA/the entire West Coast?

** The drill wasn't that big, about the size of a yacht at the head, and Spock cut the cable near the head. What was left of it might have started a decent wave, but nothing terribly dangerous.

** I always assumed that it wasn't armored and all they needed to do was enough damage to trip whatever safeguards it had to shut itself down. After all it took very little time to repair too.

 

** Kirk had to be the one to point out that the situation at Vulcan was vaguely similar to one that got the Kelvin destroyed 25 years ago. But you mean to tell me ''nobody'' else in Starfleet made the connection??? What the hell kind of analysts to they have on payroll???

*** Analysts who do not instantly remember obscure details from a single event 25 years ago that have only a vague similarity to current events. Kirk would of course remember the details of his father's death much more easily, and more often, than a Starfleet intel desk jockey who was probably in grade school when the ''Kelvin'' was lost.

** [[Tropers/Slvstr Chung|I've]] been calling it a "preboot", since that seems to cover the salient topics.

 

** Late in the TNG era Federation ships develop the ability to beam through their own shields. But it doesn't make sense in TOS era. However JJ Abrams isn't a former trek fan and might have only had experience with late TNG era shows where you can.

*** But that's the thing: even in TNG, you can't. It was O'Brien taking advantage of [[Applied Phlebotinum]] ("'seams' in their shields") and, if you want to be technical, beaming ''around'' the shields, not through. Plus, he [[No Plans, No Prototype, No Backup|never did it again]], so it's not like this became a widespread technique. Oh well, I don't know why I'm bothering. This is ''Star Trek'': when have they ever let canon be important to storytelling?

*** He ''did'' arrive in the Prime timeline, but diverged it merely with his presence. [[You Already Changed the Past|Since Nero didn't exist during the TOS era in the Prime timeline,]] his presence in the TOS era is by definition an alternate timeline.

 

** Short Answer: No. Longer Answer: The destruction of Romulus and the subsequent Romulan Civil War feature prominently in the game's backstory -- in addition, it's been mentioned in-universe that the Hobus Supernova makes no damned sense at all (scroll up for details), presumably [[Author's Saving Throw|setting it up to be the work of the game's Big Bad.]]

 

** Two things: one, it is never stated in canon just how Kirk (Kirk-Prime, let's call him) reprogrammed the Kobayashi Maru test to be winnable, only that he did -- the explanation you're given is Fanon at best. Second, and more important, this ''is'' a different Kirk. Indeed, the fact that he's kind of a brat who needs to mature to become the natural leader inside of him is kind of his plot arc, no?

*** It's not Fanon, it's part of the Expanded Universe canon. In the game Star Trek: Starfleet Academy the player is given the option to alter the Kobayashi Maru scenario by choosing to weaken the Klingon shields, dumb down the AI or make the Klingon captain fear and respect the player personally. Since the last option is the only one that works it is fair to assume this was what Kirk did too.

* The Narada's incursion into the timestream obviously affected everything that happened after that event. So, what would happen if the Chris Pine Kirk and Co. went back in time to 1980s San Francisco and snooped around a bit? Would they run into Bill Shatner Kirk? And if not, then just who in the hell invented transparent aluminum in this timeline?

** According to the official explaination, yes. When the Narada went back in time, its appearance caused the timeline to split in two at that point, meaning Shatner Kirk and co would still be in San Francisco if Pine Kirk went back.

** For your first point: IIRC, Spock Prime urges Kirk to challenge Spock's authority not just because it's Kirk's place to become Captain, but because Young Spock, for all he tries to hide it, is emotionally compromised in the mission. People who are emotionally compromised tend to let their feelings get in the way of their better judgement, which can lead to them making mistakes.

** For the second: maybe so, but who are we to begrudge him that? Spock Prime is an old man trapped possibly about as far from home as you can get; several hundred years in the past, in an [[Alternate Universe]] to boot. He's been separated from everything he knows and shunted into a timeline that, for all it shares similarities, is nonetheless significantly different. Plus, his home planet in the past has been wiped out and there are hardly any Vulcans left. All he really has left are the memories of the past; his life-defining friendship with Jim Kirk and his experiences on the ''Enterprise'' among them. And lo! He has the opportunity to influence a younger version of himself to follow this path which ended up arguably making him a better person and defining his life. Why would he ''want'' to deprive the younger version of that? Yes, it's a (slightly) different universe and Spock probably understands this full well, but from his point of view it probably can't hurt.

 

* Inconsistency between verses that might not be accountable by the Alternate Universe: