Automoderated users, Autopatrolled users, Bureaucrats, Comment administrators, Confirmed users, Forum administrators, Interface administrators, Moderators, Rollbackers, Administrators
116,199
edits
Straw Vulcan: Difference between revisions
boldface on title drop
m (update links) |
Looney Toons (talk | contribs) (boldface on title drop) |
||
| (23 intermediate revisions by 13 users not shown) | |||
Line 1:
{{trope}}
{{quote|''A mind all logic is like a knife all blade; it makes the hand bleed that wields it.''
|'''Rabindranath Tagore'''}}
A [[The War On Straw|straw man]] used to show that emotion is better than logic.
Line 8 ⟶ 9:
This is, of course, a [[Broken Aesop]]. Fiction often [[You Fail Logic Forever|gets the concept of logic wrong]] in a number of ways.
The most common mistake is to assume that logic and emotion are [[False Dichotomy|somehow naturally opposed and that employing one means you can't have the other]]. Excluding emotion doesn't make your reasoning logical, however, and it certainly doesn't cause your answer to be automatically true. Likewise, an emotional response doesn't preclude logical thinking -- [[Insane Troll Logic|although it may prevent you from thinking in the first place]]
Because the author is more concerned with setting up their straw man than in handling logic correctly, they will often misuse and distort the concept to create contrived examples where what they're calling "logic" doesn't work. Common situations include:
* The '''Straw Vulcan''' will only accept a guaranteed success. A plan that only has a chance of success is not "logical", even if the chance is the highest possible. This is actually a well-known ''error'' in logic, called the [[Perfect Solution Fallacy]].
* The story assumes a "logical" plan is one where every step makes the goal visibly closer, and accepting a short-term disadvantage for a long-term advantage is not "logical". There's nothing inherently illogical in accepting a short-term set-back if it makes the long-term success more likely.
* The Straw Vulcan will be completely unable or unwilling to plan for unexpected and even illogical [[Viewer Myopia|behavior
* The Straw Vulcan either assumes that self-sacrifice isn't "logical", even though there can easily be situations where self-sacrifice is "logical", or treat it as a matter of numerical "trade off" with insect-like disregard of self preservation.
* The story assumes that anything which doesn't fit a particular mathematical model of logic isn't "logical".
** For instance, assuming that "logic" means "using syllogisms". Even speculation and testing hypotheses can then be called "illogical", despite being the foundation of modern science. Heck, even logicians don't use syllogisms all the time.
** Or assuming that all logical choices must make one side better off on an individual basis, without considering cooperation; this is known as a [[wikipedia:Nash equilibrium|Nash equilibrium]], although you'll never find the actual term mentioned, mostly because the word "equilibrium" is far too logical-sounding for authors claiming its inferiority.
* The Straw Vulcan, and by extension all logical thinkers, will be uncreative, or at least less so than [[Hot-Blooded|emotional people]]. He will be unable to come up with an imaginative answer to an unusual problem, while the [[The Kirk|emotional protagonist]], often despite having no real experience with this kind of situation, will be able to save the day. This is supposed to show that "logic" is inferior to "emotion" in that emotion can provide [[Take a Third Option|a third and more favorable option]] to the logician's bad and worse options.
* A Straw Vulcan will have to consider everything about the problem in full detail even in time-critical situations, while the emotional person will make the snap decisions necessary in this sort of situation. This will demonstrate how the "logical" Straw Vulcan is useless under pressure and therefore inferior to the emotional protagonist. Which would make a point, if the author didn't forget to mention that ''consistently'' good decision making needs training just like problem solving does, and at very least enough of background to understand the situation in question correctly in the first place.
* There's also the case where the emotional person suggests a course that shouldn't work, period, but the Straw Vulcan's ideas all involve some aspect that the "non-logical" character find objectionable. So Straw Vulcan is outvoted, they go with the dumb emotional plan, and lo, it works... due to sheer dumb luck. This is then lauded as a victory for emotion, when in fact it's a victory for the [[Million-to-One Chance]] principle.
* The
A Straw Vulcan (much like [[Star Trek]] Vulcan) often quickly slips from stating adherence to "logic" as opinion or personal principle to an obvious obsession or phobia. In which case the whole picture makes more sense (noticeably disturbed people are not considered best decision-makers or planners for a reason that generally they, indeed, aren't), but invalidates the mental experiment for purpose of making any other point.
Like most extremes, this one is vulnerable to [[Poe's Law]]; the pseudo-skeptics<ref>activists who passionately denounce as "unscientific" everything that disagrees with whichever Great Teaching they follow, while exercising no skepticism whatsoever toward the latter, even when its preachers fall into self-contradictions</ref> tend to act closest to the caricature image above, and Marxists traditionally are the most prone to be indistinguishable from a parody, but due to the way extreme movements develop, any group relying on claims of intellectual superiority to push its interests risks having its fringe caught in this.
See [[Dumb Is Good]], [[You Fail Logic Forever]], [[Giving Up on Logic]] and [[Unweaving the Rainbow]]. Compare [[Straw Hypocrite]]. The existence of this character means that the writer falls on the Romanticist side of [[Romanticism Versus Enlightenment]]. Contrast to [[Emotions vs. Stoicism]]. [[Opposite Tropes]] to [[Strawman Emotional]].▼
{{Noreallife|real people are not crafted for a specific purpose.}}
▲See [[Dumb Is Good]], [[You Fail Logic Forever]], [[Giving Up on Logic]] and [[Unweaving the Rainbow]]. Compare [[Straw Hypocrite]]. The existence of this character means that the writer falls on the Romanticist side of [[Romanticism Versus Enlightenment]].Contrast to [[Emotions vs. Stoicism]]. [[Opposite Tropes]] to [[Strawman Emotional]].
{{examples}}▼
▲{{examples}}
== Anime
* Rossiu in ''[[Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann]]'' touches on this after the time-skip; when the citizens are rioting over the destruction caused by {{spoiler|the Anti-Spirals}}, he tries to placate [[Dying Like Animals|the populace]] by having Simon arrested and scheduled for execution, since Simon is technically responsible for the actions that led to the villain's attacking them (even though everyone else did just as much) and caused a lot of property damage by destroying an enemy in a populated area. He also wants to have the Ganmen and Lagann destroyed because it's outdated technology, and tries to save humanity by having them hide underground or evacuate on a spaceship. When this turns out to be futile... Simon saves the day by kicking reason to the curb and breaking through the impossible. Because that's what the show's about, baby!
** It's played with, too, Rossiu is not criticized on-screen for his actions after the fact by anyone other than himself, everyone else in fact pats him on the back for doing what he thought was best and making a painfully hard decision.
Line 44 ⟶ 47:
== Comic Books ==
* In ''[[Logicomix]]'', Ferge is totally honest and devoted to truth & logic. Sadly, this devotion combined with [[Ignorant of Their Own Ignorance]] leads to [[Black and White Insanity]] in the form of a
* One of Brainiac 5's roles in the ''[[Legion of Super-Heroes]]'' is to be a Straw Vulcan for the more emotional superheroes, like Dream Girl and Bouncing Boy.
* Oddly enough, [[Averted Trope]] in the ''[[Transformers]]'' comics with regard to Shockwave. Shockwave is a cold, calculating Decepticon warrior who embraces pure logic... but his definition of logic ''is'', in fact correct - "the course of action with the highest possibility of victory." In the old Marvel Transformers comics, he once ceded leadership of the Decepticons to Megatron, convinced that Megatron's logic was superior.
** In IDW's recent comics, the trope is played with when he's confronted with the raw, animal fury of the Dynobots (known in most other continuities as the ''Dino''bots); his usual cold, calculating strategy was unable to stand up against their savage assault, and he decides to think like the enemy... and goes ''berserk'' simply to match their brutality pound-for-pound, allowing an emotion to become a factor in his logic. That emotion was ''rage'', and it served Shockwave well, winning him the fight. An unforeseen weapon on the Dynobots' ship incapacitated him by causing a volcanic eruption once he'd switched off his anger program, but note that he gave in to emotion ''simply because it was logical to leave cold reasoning behind and embrace fury''.
Line 59 ⟶ 62:
* Used in the 2009 ''[[Star Trek (film)|Star Trek]]'' film (probably as an intentional [[Shout-Out]]) when Spock seeks to regroup with the rest of the surviving fleet, yet the seemingly invincible ''Narada'' is headed to destroy Earth; Kirk takes the opposing ''emotional'' side, notes the Earth will be doomed while the fleet rallies and opts to face the ''Narada'' in a head on, likely suicidal confrontation. This time, however, Spock is captain, and outranks Kirk. Later Kirk shows that Spock is emotionally ''compromised'' and takes command. In both instances we are talking about the young Spock from the alternate timeline created by the ''Narada'' at the beginning of the film.
** Both subverted and played out straight in ''[[Star Trek VI]]''. At one point Spock answers an appeal to logic from his protege Valeris by saying, "Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end." During the remainder of the film, Spock is often telling outright lies or asking crewmembers to do so (acts that certainly go against what Vulcans traditionally consider logical) and describing the lies as "a miscommunication" and other euphemisms...anything but "a lie." But in the end, we find that {{spoiler|for reasons she considers "logical," Valeris has conspired to assassinate Klingon Chancellor Gorkon and frame Kirk for his murder. When she says she doesn't recall the names of her fellow conspirators, Spock asks, "A lie?" She replies, "A choice."}}
* I don't know that they use the word "logical," but the computer in ''[[
** Hmm. The message isn't so much that you can't win a nuclear war but that the ''correct'' move is not to "play the game" at all. At least that seems to be the Aesop. In any case, WOPPER's "logic" is sound and subverts the notion that one can rationally plan a nuclear war, so this may count as a subversion of the trope.
* Dr. Ellie Arroway in ''[[Contact (film)|Contact]]'' is a SETI researcher who argues that Occam's Razor makes it more likely that humans invented the idea of God rather than God creating the world without a shred of proof pointing to his existence. During the hearing in which Ellie claimed she had a trip through the Stargate and encountered an alien (when all the witnesses and recorded data indicates the Stargate was a complete failure and nothing happened), Occam's Razor is flung back in her face: is it more likely that she hallucinated the journey or that the aliens sent her through the Stargate without leaving a shred of proof? Ellie concedes this but refuses to withdraw her position because her experience was too monumental for humanity's future to dismiss on logic alone. '''The kicker:''' the Christian philosopher whose personal religious awakening she (politely) dismissed as a psychological phenomenon is the first person to believe her: not because [[If Jesus, Then Aliens]] but because [[Not So Different|they're both committed to the truth]]. She ultimately continues her SETI research in hopes of finding more signs of extra-terrestrial life, proving that (at least where aliens are concerned) faith and logic can coexist.
Line 71 ⟶ 74:
* Frank Herbert's ''[[Dune]]'' [[Playing with a Trope|plays with this]] a lot, especially considering that almost all the characters are highly intelligent and rational. Then there are the Mentats, whose '''job''' is to think logically.
** The Mentat Piter makes several correct predictions of Duke Leto Atreides' actions, but wrongly predicts that his Bene Gesserit concubine Jessica will have a daughter rather than a son; his logic was actually correct (this was the Bene Gesserit plan), but he (and they) failed to take into consideration the possibility that Jessica would defy her orders out of love for her husband.
** Paul's final plan against the Emperor and Space Guild is a hefty subversion of the first example in that it is risky and could have possibly resulted in the stagnation of their civilization; Paul himself calls out the Space Guild in that they chose the safe course and never took a chance at taking control of the spice like he did.
*** This is actually a very logical course of action if you are willing to accept the consequences, one of Paul's [[Arc Words|maxims]] is that "He who can destroy a thing, controls that thing." He is willing to destroy civilization as he knows it, and knows the Guild is not.
**** Herbert explains much of why Paul does what he does in a set of correspondence with the legendary [[John W. Campbell]], where the two of them mutually note that Paul is a ''teenaged boy'' with vast knowledge, esoteric powers, and now enormous political and economic power, but he's not really wise. He can't be wise, not yet. He doesn't have enough life experience to be wise. His later actions prove this to be painfully true. His intentions are (mostly) good, but he makes a mess on a truly epic scale and it falls to his son Leto II to really clean things up.
* ''[[Discworld]]''
** [[Terry Pratchett]]'s ''[[
** Actually, logic works perfectly in Discworld once you account for the trope-based physics there. Purposefully lowering your chances until you have only one in a million chance has actually been used as a successful battle plan in the books.
*** Or rather, it's been attempted by the [[Genre Savvy]], who inevitably fail because they aren't statisticians, and therefore fail to make their chances ''exactly'' a million to one because they're working with rough estimates. They will then be saved by some other thing which ''is'' exactly a million to one.
** Parodied in ''[[
*** That, and he's in the Fairyland that tends to drive people insane if they spend too much time there.
** Ponder Stibbons in [[Terry Pratchett]]'s books that involve wizards is often assigned this role, and gets to express frustration because he lives in a world where thunderbolts really are signs of gods' annoyance instead of massive bursts of static electricity.
*** The books often lampshade this outlook as neither rational nor healthy by describing it as a "curse".
* The ''[[Warhammer
** Space Marines ''don't'' work on logic. They run entirely on [[Honor Before Reason]] - let's not forget that these are people who were designed largely to fight and die in battle. These particular Space Marines descend from Rogal Dorn, who was noted for being headstrong. And they are ''pissed'' at the Adeptus Mechanicus for stealing a relic they've spent 1000 years trying to find after it was lost.
** [[Didn't See That Coming|The starfort the Soul Drinkers were occupying proved to have a wing of fighter craft onboard]].
** There's also the possibility that the Soul Drinkers would've sent a message to their "ancestor" chapter, detailing what this faction of the Mechanicus had done directly after attacking the ship, rather than picking up the [[Conflict Ball]] and [[Idiot Ball|sulking in a corner, letting the Mechanicus cast all the blame on them without even trying to defend their own actions or condemn theirs.]]
* Possible example in [[E. E. Cummings]]'s poem ''[https://web.archive.org/web/20120819132502/http://www.des.emory.edu/mfp/feeling.html since feeling is first]'', although it doesn't say logic is wrong per se, simply that it's less important than love.
* Subverted by Paul Redeker in [[World War Z]]. While his rather [[Emotions vs. Stoicism|amoral]] plans to save {{spoiler|parts of}} the white population of South Africa during a black uprising make him universally despised, these plans end up {{spoiler|saving millions}}.
** To be fair, he does have a breakdown after Mandela embraces him to endorse his plan.
* Dagny Taggart and the other protagonists of ''[[Atlas Shrugged]]'' are repeatedly accused of being this by the ''[[Strawman Emotional]]'' antagonists.
* Used in the second ''[[Little Fuzzy]]'' book in the character of Jan Christiaan Hoenveld. It's pointed out that this is why he doesn't make a very good scientist.
** More specifically, its pointed out why he makes a poor choice as a researcher, which requires a capacity for speculative thinking. As a scientific ''investigator'' he is first-class, and acknowledged as such. The problem is that he was assigned as head of Research & Development, not Quality Control.
* Played with interestingly in E.E. "Doc" Smith's [[Skylark Series]]. The Llurdi, introduced in the fourth book, are an ''absurdly'' logical race. They have virtually no imagination or creative ability, rely on other 'illogical' races to make intuitive theoretical breakthroughs and confine themselves simply to applied engineering using physics principles discovered by others, often reason from extended syllogisms, and their entire body of philosphical thought (let alone their governmental system) is limited to a variant of rule utiliarianism. However, despite this they seem engineered to ''avert'' every single one of the Straw Vulcan characteristics listed at the top of this page, save for the one about creativity:
** The Llurdi avert the [[Perfect Solution Fallacy]] hardcore. Their response to a situation is the one they compute has the best chance of working, regardless of whether that is 100% or not. In fact, in one specific scene the Llurdi's ruler orders a defensive system to be prepared "so that no even theoretically possible attack on this planet will succeed", but the Llurdi engineers still do not get caught up seeking an unattainable perfection but simply stop once their system has contingencies sufficient to handle any contingency they compute has a probability greater than 0.01%.
** The Llurdi are entirely willing to use a plan that makes a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. In one scene, after it is made absolutely plain that a captive population absolutely refuses to breed in captivity and artificial insemination is not viable, the Llurdi simply release them back into the wild -- with the intent of following them later and abducting at least some of the children they will have years later.
** The Llurdi not only expect and prepare for illogical (by Llurdi standards) behavior from every other sentient race in the universe, they are actually nonplused on the few occasions that other sentients match them logic for logic.
** The 'mathematical models' one is the only subtrope that the Llurdi even begin to fall into -- but given that Llurdan logic allows for both inductive and statistical methods along with deductive ones, they're doing no worse than real-world humans are regarding math limits.
** In a complete reversal of the 'logical' race needing excessive time to ponder every response, it is explicitly mentioned and demonstrated in text that Llurdi have a faster reaction time to unexpected emergencies than any other sentient race in the universe. The author directly lampshades that a ''truly'' 'perfectly logical' mind would not have its performance inhibited by ''any'' form of emotion -- and "shock" and "surprise" are both emotions. In one scene a council of senior Llurdan bureaucrats are subject to a terrorist attack in the middle of a government meeting with absolutely no warning -- and immediately react to the attack with a speed and precision more characteristic of veteran special operations troops, because they were able to instantaneously process the new data and formulate a useful response.
== Live-Action TV ==
Line 106 ⟶ 115:
'''McCoy:''' You admit that?
'''Spock:''' To deny the obvious would be illogical. }}
***Spock is the one being(shock!)illogical. Taking account of the illogic of others is logical, in fact it is not doing so that is illogical(if you play roulette you do not assume the rules are the same as chess). Furthermore it is not true even that Spock is dealing with illogic. All the mobsters are following the logic of clan politics which is the same clan politics as has been there for thousands of years, was normal on Earth until recently, is still normal among Klingons, and once was normal among Vulcans. People immersed in such a situation can and do get emotional about it but ultimately they do not survive by being stupid.
** 'Requiem for Methuselah' has [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuQCt5xWeDc Forget]
** Subverted ''and'' inverted in an episode of ''[[Star Trek: Deep Space Nine|Deep Space Nine]]''; Sarkona, a Vulcan, joins the Maquis because she agrees with their position and believes their rather crude and barbaric actions to achieve "peace" to be logical... but she's called out by ''Quark'', locked in the brig with her after her plans are exposed, noting that, as the Federation had caught the Cardassians (the Maquis' enemies) red-handed supplying their people with weapons to fight against the Maquis, sitting down with them and hammering out an arrangement would bring the peace in better and "at a bargain price" compared to continuing the fight.
Line 111 ⟶ 121:
**** "Human? Did I leave my spots at home?" "All that Vulcan intelligence, and he doesn't even know what a hew-mon looks like."
** In one episode of ''[[Star Trek: The Next Generation|The Next Generation]]'', Troi beats Data at chess. She then explains to him that chess isn't just a game of logic, but also intuition. As the Nitpicker's Guide puts it, "Try playing 'intuitive' chess against a computer and you'll lose in no time flat" (and then suggests that perhaps she had his [[Difficulty Level]] set to "below novice"). Shown for laughs in [http://xkcd.com/232/ xkcd 232].
** In early episodes of both ''The Original Series'' and ''The Next Generation'', humans who have uploaded their minds into android bodies discover that they have lost some ineffable, illogical, ''human'' quality in the transfer. Despairing at this loss, they choose to terminate their
*** Ironically, this is referenced and deconstructed by ''Data'', of all people, in an episode of ''The Next Generation''; a scientist wants to disassemble him and dump his memory into a computer so he could study him and learn how to create more like him, and Data refuses, fully believing in that same ineffable quality to memory and believing he, himself would lose it in the transfer, despite ''himself being an android''. In an attempt to explain this, he compares it to how learning how to play poker from a book isn't the same as actually playing the game, in person, implying that the "ineffable quality" being lost is the personal importance and significance of those experiences, the context which makes the event special for that individual,
**** Also, it isn't that Data thinks the ineffable quality cannot be duplicated, but he believes Bruce Maddox doesn't possess sufficient understanding of Data's construction to fully replicate it. Data encourages Maddox at the end of the episode to continue his research.
** The ''[[Star Trek: The Animated Series|Animated Series]]'' episode "The Magicks of Megas-Tu" neatly subverts or perhaps averts this. In a parallel universe where magic works, McCoy scoffs at Spock's attempt to perform a magical ritual. His reply? "It must work, Doctor. It is ''logical'' -- here."
** Tuvok on ''[[Star Trek: Voyager|Voyager]]'' often acted as a
*** Played with in this dialogue (when captured):
{{quote|'''Tuvok:''' Resistance is illogical.
Line 126 ⟶ 136:
{{quote|'''Sulu:''' Mr. Tuvok, if you're going to remain on my ship, you're going to have learn how to appreciate a joke. And don't tell me Vulcans don't have a sense of humor, because I know better.}}
* ''[[Star Trek: Enterprise]]''. Over the course of four years T'Pol undergoes a [[Mind Rape]] that brings up traumatic memories of losing her emotional control in a jazz nightclub, remembers repressed memories of a line-of-duty killing (that also led to a loss of emotional control), suffers from Pa'nar Syndrome that degrades her neural pathways (leading to loss of emotional control), becomes addicted to Trellium-D (which causes loss of emotional control), and is infected by a microbe that makes her undergo a premature ''pon farr'' (leading to loss of emotional control and clothing). It seems that the writers believed that the only way T'Pol's character could develop was to take away the characteristics that made her different from humans.
** While T'Pol is probably the queen of all
** That said, there was also an episode where the crew met an offshoot culture of Vulcans who ate meat and believed that emotion in moderation was not harmful in the slightest; as long as you had control over your emotions, there was no reason you couldn't allow yourself to feel and express that emotion. They were sort of an exploration of what would happen if you had Vulcans who weren't straw.
** One of the plans for the fifth season ([[What Could Have Been|had there been one]]), was to reveal that T'Pol's father was a Romulan spy, which would go a long way towards explaining her
* Although widely used and occasionally subverted or lampshaded in ''Star Trek,'' as noted in the many examples above, the trope is notably averted in the ''Star Trek: The Next Generation'' episode "Redemption II". In an operation involving a large number of ships and not enough captains to go around, a number of senior officers, including Data, are given command of various ships. Data's first officer repeatedly questions Data's orders and the fitness of an android to command a ship, until Data (seemingly) angrily tells him, "Mr. Hobson! You will carry out my orders or I will relieve you of duty!" Data correctly realizes that the emotional response ''is'' the logical one, necessary in order to motivate Hobson.
* ''[[Farscape]]'' takes delight in simultaneously subverting and playing this trope straight whenever a protagonist's crazy plan ''works'' despite the logical objections of others, but also leads to lasting consequences which ''always'' come back to bite them in the arse. Characters will continually point out this trend, but usually concede to the fact that they're screwed either way and really don't have a choice.
Line 144 ⟶ 154:
** The effect of this trope on the viewer was made visible with the "new" Cybermen in "Doomsday": when the Cybermen propose an alliance with the Daleks, they claim to bring "elegance" of design to the table, and manage a subtle dig about the lack of it in the Dalek physical form. As noted above, logic is about how to ''achieve'' goals, not about what those goals are, so there's nothing illogical about the Cybermen prizing "elegance", as they pursue it in a logical fashion. This did not stop a number of fans from shouting "That's not ''logical''!" about the exchange. In fact, "Elegance is good. Cybermen are elegant. Therefore, making more Cybermen makes more elegance, and, by extension, more goodness" is actually a ''far more logical'' motive for their actions than the traditional Cyberman strategy of "Survival is good. Therefore let's send ''our entire race'' off on incredibly risky invasions of Earth following pretty much the same strategy that has failed and led us to near extinction several times already" used repeatedly through the classic series.
*** The 20th century British physicist Paul Dirac would doubtless have had some very stern words to say in response to the suggestion of logic and elegance being mutually exclusive.
*** Just after the Cybermen have boasted of elegance, we see the procedure they go through to fire their built-in weapons. The Dalek's simple point-and-exterminate is far more
**** Although as far as logic goes, both sides would be a lot better off spending less time shouting "Delete"/"Exterminate" and [[Just Shoot Him|just shooting already]].
* In ''[[Super Sentai]]'', [[The Hero]] is almost always a loudmouth with more adrenaline than brains (similar to the ''[[Digimon]]'' franchise's [[Goggles Do Nothing|goggle-wearer]]). In an episode of ''Magiranger'' in which [[The Hero]] and his mentor switch roles, the very [[Family-Unfriendly Aesop]] was to not waste your time thinking, and just [[Screaming Warrior|charge in yelling]] as [[The Hero]] does. [[Right Makes Might]], and thinking only gets in the way.
Line 150 ⟶ 160:
* ''[[Bones]]'' lives on the [[Odd Couple]] relationship between emotional and intuitive Booth and logical and rational Brennan: she's frequently shown as being wrong in the end, or being right for the wrong reasons.
** It get's really jarring when you consider that Bones is very rarely rational or logical at all. In a recent episode Angela pointed out that one of Brennan's skills is, rather than being rational, ''rationalizing'' her actions.
***In some ways she is. When she says she is the best scientist in the country, it is not because she is bragging. It is because ''she is the best scientist in the country'' and it is absurd to waste time pretending otherwise. When she corrects someone else's error she is not trying to annoy them. It is because she really would want to be corrected when she is wrong. It is not her logic that is at fault it is her information deficiency that comes from not sensing other's emotions.
**** The point being made is that its a failure in her logic to not ''realize'' that she has this 'information deficiency' problem and take appropriate coping measures. To be unable to recognize your limitations and act accordingly is not logical. Especially when its a ''known syndrome''.
*** Consider her as borderline [[Hollywood Autism]] who was severely emotionally damaged when her parents abandoned her. All of a sudden her retreat into pseudorationality makes sense. It's still annoying.
** When Brennan [[Easy Amnesia|lost her memory of the last couple days]] and was framed for murder; she argued ''in favor her own guilt'' as the most logical conclusion even though the police had no motive whatsoever and Booth pointed out she was not capable of murder.
** Speaking of ''[[Bones]]'', {{spoiler|Zack's decision to work for a cannibalistic serial killer because "his logic is unassailable".}} Really? Even accepting all his premises, where exactly does eating people and making a skeleton from their remains fit in to this plan?
*** Which is why Bones managed to take Gormogon's logic apart in thirty seconds.
* ''[[Stargate SG-1]]''; the hyper-logical Asgard, on the verge of defeat in their war against the Replicators, come to Earth seeking ideas from a more primitive, more savage race. Immediately averted by Jack saying "You're actually saying you need someone dumber than you are?" Carter, as it turns out, is indeed dumb enough to win that battle. The fact that the Asgard, practically alone among [[Sufficiently Advanced Alien
** Of course, the Asgard's main reason for coming is that they are so advanced they have trouble coming up with low-tech solutions (for example, launching pieces of metal at a high speed using a small explosive to deal with targets that have shielding against energy weapons) or solutions to problem their technology can't solve. Which makes sense, as similar things happen IRL. People living in the 21st century would often not think (or even be aware) of several tricks and trades used centuries prior - and not think of using such tricks when they might again be useful (see the [[Real Life]] section of [[Rock Beats Laser]] for example).
* Averted in an episode of ''[[Stargate Atlantis]]''; there's a Ticking [[Time Bomb]] scenario, and one of a daunting number of identical circuits will save the day. Since there's no penalty for guessing, [[The Smart Guy]] is methodically trying each one, but there won't be time for ''all'' of them, so a more empathic, intuitive type tells him to start trying them at random. Smart Guy, quite sensibly, points out that that would mean a chance of trying some of them twice, thus wasting precious seconds.
** Played straight in the first meeting with the Genii. While infiltrating a Wraith Hiveship, Teyla discovers some human prisoners. She becomes emotionally moved and stays behind (with one of the Genii) to free them... except that the success of the mission crucially depends on the Wraith not realizing that it ever took place. After pointing this out to Teyla and being subsequently ignored, the Genii, as the Straw Vulcan of the day, "logically" shoots down the prisoner with his ''unsilenced'' firearm. This, of course, instantly alerts the Wraith; the Genii is shot and paralyzed just after, and Teyla leaves him to die, despite the fact that he's an old friend of hers and the show typically operates on a [[No One Gets Left Behind]] premise. But hey, that's the price you pay for being logical and trying to avoid the deaths of many of your people.
** It's hard to say whether the Genii are meant to be [[
* Parodied by ''[[The Colbert Report]],'' where [[Stephen Colbert]]'s character often sets up the "liberal elite" as a
* Nick Stokes of ''[[CSI]]'' can make his co-workers look like
* The Professor from ''[[Gilligan's Island]]'' although it's more "imagination is better than logic." Honestly, after all the stuff that goes on on that island you'd think the Professor would EVENTUALLY realize that science isn't going to work there.
** Then again, you would think he would come to the logical solution to keep Gilligan far from any experiment or device he is building. By force, if necessary.
* One episode of ''M*A*S*H'' featured a logistics expert who was treated as little more than a cold and calculating monster because he projected casualties before a battle in order to make preparations for receiving them. By the end of the episode, of course, Hawkeye had taught him the "error" of his ways. Also overlaps, as these things often do, with [[Straw Man Has a Point]].
* In the ''[[Modern Family]]'' episode "Lifetime Supply", Jay and Manny go the horse track with Manny's father, Javier ([[Law and Order|Benjamin Bratt]]). Jay chooses his horses based on the information in the ''Daily Racing Form''. Javier bets on a horse because "I looked him in the eyes, and he told me this would be his day". Guess who wins? To add insult to injury, Jay chooses a horse this way and ''it'' wins ... only to be disqualified.
== Music ==
* In the [[Grateful Dead]] song ''Terrapin Station'', a potential love interest [[Secret Test of Character|tests]] the [[Single Woman Seeks Good Man|worthiness]] of the heros, a [[The Spock|soldier]] and a [[The McCoy|sailor]], by [[Moral Dissonance|throwing her fan into the lion's den]] and promising her love to whoever would retreive it for her. The sailor [[Mad Love|decides to]], while the soldier refuses, and says "Strategy is my strength, not disaster." The sailor [[Million-to-One Chance|succeeds, and gets the girl, rather than getting his ass handed to him by the lions]].
* The whole point of [[Billy Joel]]'s hit, "I Go To Extremes":
{{quote|''Darling I don't know why I got to extremes
''Too high or too low there ain't no in-betweens
''And if I stand or I fall
''It's all or nothing at all
''Darling I don't know why I got to extremes''.}}
== Tabletop Games ==
* Tech-Priests in ''[[Warhammer
** To be fair, most characters in the lore think they are straight up nuts and their methods of fixing stuff are not so much logical as they are religious doctrines. The rite of pressing the "on" rune is a common one. It involves much prayer and chanting. Though it's very [[Depending on the Writer]] - sometimes they need to chant before activating a light panel, [http://www.servantsoftheimperium.com/comic.php?comicid=49 sometimes] just enough ritual to make things more satisfying.
* A variation of this can happen to Alchemicals in ''[[Exalted]]''
** [[Subverted Trope|On the other hand]], most can become aware of this and are usually willing to at least listen to their more emotional advisers.
* In ''[[Genius: The Transgression]]'', we have Atomists, the [[Well-Intentioned Extremist|Lemurian]] technocrats. They believe every problem can be solved with technology... including social ones. When you combine this with their literal insanity it has [[The Computer Is Your Friend|predictable]] [[Dystopia|results]].
* Averted in ''[[In Nomine]]'' with the Elohim, despite many mocking comparisons from both angels and demons. The angels of this ultra-rational Choir must always do the objective "right thing" regardless of their own emotions, but they neither dismiss emotions nor lack them. In fact, because of their own inner balance, they are more capable of *perceiving* the emotions of others and judging what sort of actions those emotions will lead to.
== Video Games ==
Line 183 ⟶ 199:
** There's also the scene where she had {{spoiler|Greyfield/Sigismundo at her mercy, and he tries to save himself by pointing out that [[If You Kill Him You Will Be Just Like Him|she'd be doing the same thing he did]]. She agrees... and shoots him anyway.}}
* The New Enlightenment in the [[Interactive Fiction]] ''Square Circle'' embodies this.
* ''[[Dissidia Final Fantasy]]'': {{spoiler|Onion Knight}} gets this, spelled out in that story's ending narration: {{spoiler|"He thought that avoiding mistakes and making decisions based on logic - instead of emotion - was the only way to reach the truth. But the boy has learned ... that he can tap into immeasurable strength when he searches deep inside his heart."}}
* Before gaining emotions, [[The Spock|Gale]] of ''[[Digital Devil Saga]]'' is one of these. One plan has him suggest destroying an abandoned Ocean Liner to kill a Chronic Backstabber, even though it's implied in the second game that the ship {{spoiler|has some emotional significance to the [[Mysterious Waif]]}}. He also doesn't understand things such as Argilla's anguish after {{spoiler|Jinana dies}} and why [[Honor Before Reason|Lupa vows upon his honor.]]
== Web Comics ==
* [http://www.angryflower.com/whichb.html This] episode of ''[[Bob
* Parodied in ''[[Fans]]!'', where one of the [[Big Bad]]'s plots was to go back in time and insert more instances of this trope into
* ''[[Shortpacked]]'' parodies an instance of this from ''[[G.I. Joe: The
▲* Parodied in ''[[Fans]]!'', where one of the [[Big Bad]]'s plots was to go back in time and insert more instances of this trope into fiction -- thus making all of humanity stupider as a whole.
▲* ''[[Shortpacked]]'' parodies an instance of this from ''[[G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra|G.I. Joe the Rise of Cobra]]'' in [http://shortpacked.com/comic/book-9/09-grand-reopening/ripcord/ this strip].
** Willis labeled the strip "Is this something already covered by [[TV Tropes]]? I haven't checked yet." in his update blog.
* ''[[xkcd]]'' had "[https://xkcd.com/1112/ Think Logically]".
== Western Animation ==
Line 205 ⟶ 220:
== Real Life ==
* every SMWCentral moderator and administrator.
* The [[Josef Stalin|Stalin era]] Soviet Union followed the 'everything but this specific model is not really logic'. For example, probability mathematics was declared a 'bourgeois pseudoscience' and the Law of Large Numbers a 'false theory'. The idea of anything less than [[You Can't Fight Fate|perfect and total determinism]] just somehow ''irked'' them. Things improved a bit after Stalin croaked, and but the damage had already been done.
** Bear in mind, this is a government which banned ''genetics'' because things like Mendel's laws were incompatible with their politics. Hmm... [[Does This Remind You of Anything?|where have we heard]] [[The Fundamentalist|this one before]]?
Line 219 ⟶ 235:
**** Perhaps the simplest example is Tic-Tac-Toe. Unless someone makes a mistake, the game will always end in a draw.
** Also ignoring the fact that there are games for which perfect play guarantees victory for the player that goes second.
* This trope was explored (and TV Tropes namechecked) in a [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLgNZ9aTEwc speech by Julia Galef
** She also discusses it a few times on [http://www.rationallyspeakingpodcast.org/ the Rationally Speaking Podcast], usually when she and her co-host are discussing rationality, logic, intuition, logical fallacies, or common misconceptions about the above.
{{reflist}}
[[Category:Anti-Intellectualism]]
[[Category:Speculative Fiction Tropes]]
Line 228 ⟶ 245:
[[Category:Philosophy Tropes]]
[[Category:Emotion Tropes]]
▲[[Category:Straw Vulcan]]
| |||