The Dark Knight Saga/WMG: Difference between revisions

The man has built a career around escaping death, and [[Never Found the Body|all we saw of his "demise" was the train crashing]]. Who's to say he couldn't have gotten to safety? After all, most of Begins was a lead-up to [[The Reveal]] that (the real) Ra's wasn't dead.

* His appearance in Part 3 would be a great way to bookend the series, and would probably occur just prior to the endgame, likely with something like, "How many times do I have to tell you that Ra's al-Ghul is immortal?" and [[The Reveal]] that he's been manipulating things from behind the scenes throughout "The Dark Knight" and afterward, including the entire plot of the third movie which would come with its own false [[The Reveal|reveal]].

 

* Yeah, but, he likes [[Maggie Gyllenhaal]], so he ''can't'' be a troll.

** He held a knife against her cheek and blew her up. He was like "Hello, beautiful (lol jk chipmunkface)"

 

== Batman will die or, at the very least, be horribly crippled in the third movie. ==

* After he is crippled, the Batman mantle will be taken up by [[Knightfall|Jean-Paul]] [[Azrael|Valley]].

** And the movie will be titled ''Knightfall''.

* Just get [[Cere Proc]] to replicate the voice like they did for [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJI87Ivk0PM Roger Ebert.] Pouring a few million into perfecting a voice that doesn't have actually to be generated on the fly should do nicely. After that, it's all mo-cap.

* Two words: Harley Quinn.

 

== The Joker is actually Ronald McDonald ==

* You have never read of comic book in your entire life, have you? The Joker ALWAYS pleads Insanity, and he ALWAYS gets it. Also, he did in-fact plead Not Guilty once, because he honestly didn't kill the person they said he did. This is how Batman knew he was telling the truth, and he begrudgingly set out to find who was trying to frame the Joker.

** I have read more comic books than it took to push the Flaming Carrot over the edge and this is not about comics, this is about the realism the movies are trying to establish and there is simply no way the Joker is making it to a third movie alive, he will either be exceuted or killed in prison. He's pissed off ''way'' too many people in that city to realistically be allowed to live.

**** The thing is though is that the Joker wouldn't do that because he honestly doesn't think he's insane, he'd either plead guilty (because he's ''proud'' he did it) or not guilty (just for the fun of screwing with people during the proceedings).

*** The Joker could be declared mentally incompetent and be slung in Arkham until he is found competent again. That's unlikely, though.

 

== The Joker lied about his Prisoner's Dilemma ==

* Alternatively, there were no explosives on any of the boats. He expected both sets of passengers to use the detonators, and letting everyone live with that guilt probably seemed funnier to him than killing them.

* Alternatively, each detonator would blow up both boats. This would fit the Joker's personality even more.

* [[Fan Service|We]] [[Fetish Fuel|can]] [[Hot Amazon|only]] [[Ms. Fanservice|hope]]!

* It also makes sense because, in the story that part of the movie is based on, ''Harvey's wife survives'', and she goes on a [[Roaring Rampage of Revenge]] because of what happened to him.

 

== If this is JUST gonna be a trilogy, then I'm Elvis, my dad is Bigfoot and my mom is [[Wonder Woman]] ==

 

== Most of The Dark Knight never happens- it is simply Bruce's fantasy. ==

* A new, [[Complete Monster|unrepentantly evil]] and extremely dangerous criminal appears, who only Batman can deal with. He tortures and kills the people who impersonate Batman, the people of Gotham (who no longer need Batman) and the legal system that is replacing Batman.

* Lucius, Bruce's only close companion and parent substitute, is close to perfect- competent at everything, very wise and incorruptible.

* Tellingly, by the end of the film, nearly every single protagonist in the film who's not entirely a [[Red Shirt]] has been forced to choose between their loved ones and doing the right thing, just as Bruce is being forced to choose between honouring his parents' memory by continuing to be Batman and doing the right thing and gracefully retiring as the now unnecessary Batman.

 

* Maybe the thief in Alfred's story was the same demon?

* Joker is [[H.P. Lovecraft|one of the Masks of Nyarlathotep]]. He even calls himself an avatar of chaos - not far from that to the Crawling Chaos.

** "[[Magnificent Bastard|I just did what I do best. I took your little plan and I turned it on itself. And look what I did to this city with a few drums of gas and a couple of bullets.]]"

* [[Demonic Possession]] has become nearly a [[Dead Horse Trope]]. Its modern equivalent is [[Alien Abduction]]. [[The Joker]] is...''really'' an '''alien'''!

Loki could pull off some pretty freaky stuff, and if the rest of the Asgard got fed up and kicked him out, he'd have to find someone else to torment. Even without his supernatural power, he's still got the knowledge and motivation to cause chaos in the human world. If Joker is freakier than Loki, it could be because a) Loki went crazier and that's why he was kicked out, or b) he went completely unhinged as a result of being exiled.

* "Wanna know how I got these scars? Well, there was this time I wagered my head to a bunch of dwarves..."

 

== The Joker was a former Yakuza member ==

 

== The Joker is J.D. from [[Heathers]] ==

* "Greetings and Salutations Commissioner..."

 

== The Joker Was a Doctor, ME, Coroner, Undertaker or something that required medical training ==

This seems to come out of nowhere, but how else did he keep the poor mook with the bomb in his stomach alive for a relatively long period of time after its implantation? An ME or coroner (or even a doctor depending on where they practiced) would have to deal with some really sick crap for their job, the different scar stories could have been inspired by things he actually saw before he went over the edge.

 

== Nolanverse Joker abuses painkillers ==

This touches on some of the reasoning behind the Congenital Analgia WMG and an ambiguous scene from the non-canon Joker TPB using a very Nolanverse-esque Joker. If you watch, the Joker walks with a fairly pronounced limp throughout the movie. During my first viewing I assumed it was from the truck crash, but watching again, he has the same shuffle in the bank, implying he has some sort of damage to either his leg(s) or back. Despite this, he doesn't seem to feel much pain, even jumping into the bus and hopping across the seats, but as this troper's experience managing long-term pain with opiates (Vicodin and Percocet, NOT at the same time) can attest, it's entirely possible to do things that would normally cause you to collapse in agony... so long as it doesn't take long. This would also account for the Joker's... somewhat, ahh... unique way of phrasing. He's literally choosing every word, making sure he's saying exactly what he means. Add onto that the fact that Ledger died from an accidental prescription drug overdose that included Vicodin and Percocet...

* If you combine this WMG with the WMG that the Joker is a doctor of some sort, it can only mean one thing. The Joker is really [[House (TV series)|House]]!

 

== Lau has a daughter ==

 

== Dr. Crane is secretly a country boy. ==

* Hmmm, it does sometimes sound like he's hiding [[Fake American|SOME]] kind of accent.

** Like maybe an [[The Legend of Sleepy Hollow|antiquated Connecticut or colonial Westchester accent]]?

* Anyone who likes this idea may enjoy the Year One: Scarecrow comic.

** Maybe the toxin really only works on human brain chemistry, and the whole "effects all living things" was just a lie or mistake?

 

== Ramirez will search for redemption and will follow the steps of Renee Montoya. ==

After the events in Dark Knight, Ramirez will be devastated and will vow to become a better cop and person to atone for what she did. While some people are born heroes some are made, and since she is still breathing it isn't too late yet.

* Or in a little different possibility she resigns/is expelled from the police force after the events and still will try to atone for what she did. Becoming eventually the Question. (Being the successor of this universe version Vic is a possibility...)

* Interesting as this idea would be, it's possible that Ramirez died off-screen. At the end of ''The Dark Knight'', Gordon mentions that Two-Face killed five people, two of whom were cops. The only cops Two-Face was shown interacting with were Gordon, who he obviously didn't kill; Wuerzt, who he killed; and Ramirez, who he decided to spare, but knocked out with a [[Tap on the Head]] before he left. Apparently, in spite of what Harvey intended, the blow was fatal.

** Gordon doesn't say Two-Face killed five people; he said "5 dead, 2 of 'em cops, you can't sweep this up." Wuertz, Moroni, Moroni's driver, the cop that was killed in the hospital (Gordon wouldn't be able to pin it on the Joker because as far as the GPD is concerned, the [[Hannibal Lecture]] never happened) and Harvey himself (though as some would say, not necessarily Two-Face).

*** Yeah! A mute, hunchbacked, homeless friend of Lucius Fox. Named Ed.

*** ...[[Flat What|What.]]

 

== The mobs of Gotham will lose their control of the city. ==

 

== God has a sense of irony ==

 

== Barbara wants her father's approval. ==

Granted, its never been stated that Gordon's daughter is named "Barbara," but...well, come on, we all know it. Furthermore, she was present when Two-Face confirmed that daddy loved James Jr. more than her. Sounds like someone might decide to put on a batsuit and try to win daddy's approval.

 

== The Joker has ascended to the status of a ''really'' viral meme ==

** Joker is Gotham's Anonymous.

** So the Joker is yet another [[Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex|Stand Alone Complex]].

 

== The Joker is the Joker Spirit from ''[[Persona 2]]'' ==

 

== The Joker isn't wearing makeup ==

* But how does that explain the visible white makeup residue on his hands during the hospital scene?

* [[The Simpsons (animation)|I got news for you. This ain't make-up!]]

== The Joker is...Charlie Brown. ==

The scars come from a freak accident from a failed attempt to kick a football.

* And his first victim was the Kite-Eating-Tree.

* Either that, or a bad line drive.

 

== The Joker was part of a whole family of [[Complete Monster]]s, stretching back as far as the beginning of the 20th century. ==

* And what if Hannibal Lecter had an [[No Country for Old Men|older brother?]]

* [[The Devil's Rejects|The Fireflys?]]

== The Joker knows that he's the villain in a Batman movie ==

The Joker does everything that he does because he knows that no one is real, not even him, that they all exist solely to entertain their audience. He knows that he can't beat Batman, because Batman is the hero, and he isn't insane enough to fancy that escaping into the real world is an actual possibility, so he does the only thing he can do, he targets the audience with the moral dilemmas he creates. He doesn't care about how Batman reacts to him, or how the people of Gotham City do. He knows that they'll make the "right" choices in the end and he'll loose. What he does care about is the audience in the real world. He wants to make them think for a moment about what they would do in similar situations. Would they sacrifice themselves for stangers? Would they murder strangers to save themselves? He knows that if they're forced to think about these things most of them won't have easy answers, because they don't live in a movie.

 

== [[The Joker]]'s scars were inflicted by Carmine Falcone. ==

== Rachel Dawes is really [[That's So Raven|Raven]]. ==

''How else could she know that Batman would save Harvey?''

 

== Harvey and Rachel's deaths will ultimately benefit Gotham. ==

 

== The fear toxin ''is'' harmful when digested ==

The toxin stays in the human body and slowly builds up waiting for the right trigger: fear.

Gotham being an high density urban environment means that that only regular physical danger that the average person is likely to face is criminal in nature, (i.e. good old cops and robbers).

Because of this people who commit (or are exposed to) violent crimes start to take more risk and slowly lose connection with social norms.

 

 

Think of it a as sort of non super power [[Meta Origin]] to batman's growing [[Rogues Gallery]]. when someone stress in Gotham there's a very real chance they flip out put on a absurd outfit and blow up a bank because ''their brain are chemically wired that way''. A [[Science-Related Memetic Disorder|Crime Related Mental Disorder]] if you will.

 

a war with the police. However In the mind of the average Gotham street gangster this doesn't seem like a bad idea because basically they're ''high'' with him around him.

hell the Joker suggest this with his last lines.

 

== Rachel Dawes is a (the?) villain for the final film ==

** And she takes up the mantle of {{spoiler|The Phantasm.}}

 

Superman did it, Batman did it, Spiderman is doing it and Dark Knight will do it. Sorry, but [[You Can't Fight Fate]].

* What about... [[Blade|wait...]] well maybe... ''[[X-Men]]''...? Dang, you might be on to something here.

*** If anyone can break the curse, it's Nolan. But really, it's not like it's an absolute. For instance, who thinks ''Batman Returns'' was better than ''Batman''?

* I don't, but a lot of people I know think it was.

** To be fair to Sam Raimi, the studio pretty much forced him to include Venom, a character he said he hated, and that required a massive rewrite, possibly at the last minute. It's true that he was still responsible for the movie that came out, but it was probably more to flip off the execs that screwed with his plans than anything.

* You know technically Spiderman is being rebooted with a different...well everything but it didn't wait 20 years. So this might bode well somehow for the possibility of the third film being on the same level as the first at least.

* This troper, personally, likes all the aforementioned films described as sucking, except for a couple (namely, the Superman sequels and Batman and Robin.) So, YMMV ''heavily'' on the existence of this curse in the first place.

 

 

== Alfred is a [[Retired Badass|retired]] [[James Bond]] ==

 

<small>Do you need something Master Wayne</small>

 

<small>And you [[Phrase Catcher|Mr...]]</small>

 

 

<small>James Bond, [[Sarcasm Mode|good to see that the boys]] [[Servile Snarker|are getting original,]] [[The Danza|Mr Craig.]]</small>

 

== Batman Really Becomes Batman in the Third Film ==

 

== The Joker is Cobb from Nolan's first film, ''[[Following]]''. ==

* I agree. The problem with the Joker's last experiment is that being in a crowd defused everyone's sense of responsibility. ("Somebody else can detonate the other boat.") If they had to take action to stop the other boat from blowing up, but passivity would have saved them, the Joker's plan might have worked!

 

 

== The Joker eventually becomes Jigsaw. ==

 

== [[The Dark Knight Rises]] will be an adaptation of [[Frank Miller]]'s [[The Killing Joke]] ==

they will always remember [[The Dark Knight]].

** [[Alan Moore]] wrote the [[Killing Joke]], and breaking legs won't really cripple you for life, unless you really destroy them. It's spinal cord injuries that cause that kind of damage - that's what Barbara Gordon and Batman both suffered.

 

== Bane won't use Venom ==

 

== Ra's al-Ghul is a [[Legacy Character]] ==

There are a couple hints over the series that he was close to Ducard while at the league of shadows, what with Ducard having been his mentor. When the house burned down, the only life Bruce tried to save, aside from his own, was Ducard's. Also note that, while Bruce disagrees with several of Ducard's philosophies, (i.e. when a city becomes corrupt, it must be destroyed,) he took others to heart, such as the idea that a symbol is much more powerful than a person could ever be. There's also another philosophy from Batman Begins that gets brought back in The Dark Knight: early in Begins, while training Bruce, Ducard mentions that criminals aren't complicated, which is brought back by Bruce in the sequel, when trying to figure out what the Joker wanted. All this seems to indicate that the two were relatively close in the league of shadows. Thus, when Bruce realizes that Ducard had been Ra's Al Ghul the whole time, and Ducard proceeded to burn down his house and make multiple attempts on his life, if affected Bruce more than we see. One possible example is when a beam of wood falls down on Bruce and pins him to the ground. Even though he's prepared himself for eventualities like this, he's unwilling to lift the wood, until Alfred comes along and helps him to his feet. No comment on any implications if this theory is true...

 

Why not? They're both [[Nightmare Fuel]] personified, they both create memes every time they speak, they both all-too-often wear [[Draco in Leather Pants|leather pants]], they both corrupt multiple people when they appear, both are working from obscure, twisted motives- [[For the Evulz|if they're working from any motives at all]]... Need I go on?

 

** 4. The heist at the plant goes awry - in an act of revenge, one of the criminals take out a knife and sticks the blade in his mouth, creating the [[Glasgow Smile|smile]] the Joker is famous for.

** 5. The police arrives - The Joker, the last man of the team, is scared out of his mind and makes a run for it. He escapes by jumping in a polluted river, which turns his hair a sickly shade of brown/green.

** The owners of the bar find him there, and, unable to get any info out of him, decide to have him placed in Arkham. He does not stay there for long, though, and is out in the open in the finale of Batman Begins.

 

 

== Jim Gordon is [[Harry Potter (film)|Sirius Black]] with [[Easy Amnesia|Amnesia]]. ==

 

== Bane will figure out Batman's identity. ==

* It is Marion Cotillard. Looks just like her, because it is her.

** It looks ''vaguely'' like Marion.

 

== There will be a nod to the Joker ==

 

== Catwoman will be a Marxist. ==

* [[Jossed]] by her whispering in Bruce's ear that, "You don't owe these people anything." If she were a Marxist she wouldn't tell the richest man in the country, if not the world, that he didn't owe anything to anyone.

** We don't know the context of the line, and Batman is a such an unusual man and so incredibly self-sacrificing that she may simply be making an exception. For all we know, she could be talking about figures of power and authority who want Batman back once Bane goes on a rampage.

The real reason he set up a task force for Batman was that the latter was hitting the mob. In ''Dark Knight'', the reason he wasn't taking the Joker's threat seriously is because he thought the mob had his back.

 

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[[Category:Wild Mass Guessing/Film]]

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