Warhammer 40,000/Headscratchers: Difference between revisions
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** Tau don't have power weapons because they haven't researched it; power field technology is difficult to manufacture and even most of the tech-priests have no idea how it works. Keep in mind that the Tau have only had a fraction of the time as humanity to develop their technology and though they have made great strides in a short amount of time, not all of their technology is as advanced as the Imperium's.
** The Tau have poorer reflexes than other races, in close combat, lightning reflexes are a survival requirement, especially in melee combat. Hence why they stick to shooting the shit out of everyone at range, and let their mercenary Kroot (who can be assumed to have far better reflexes than the Tau) do the close combat and melee.
** I've wondered about that myself, and [https://web.archive.org/web/20150509034403/http://tau.istheshit.net/ this image] is the best explanation I've found.
** Supposedly, its because Tau society considers all physical contact to be extremely distasteful. Hand-to-hand training for them would be like making military recruits make-out with each other as part of their training.
*** Actually in the Codex Xenos article GW put out when the Tau were first introduced there was a cut out box on this subject, basically the way Tau eyes work, they really fucking suck at following rapid movements up close and personal in hand to hand.
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*** VERY not valid for tourney play list. It asked the question about "How's come Marines aren't as good as they are in the books" So they made the marine profile, and pointed them out. You HQ was the Vet Sgt. at 250 points. Elietes were the "Grisled old vets." that allways pop up in those stories at about 200 points a piece. Troops were rank and file Space Marines, at about 150-200 points a piece. Fast Attack...well you get like one guy with a jump pack or something. And the Heavy Support was the guy carrying the LasCannon which wound up being heavy 4 or something like that...mabe rapid fire, i can't remember. But as I said...you wound up with about 6-10 modles giving you a 1500-2000 point army. It was a very funny read.
**** The lascannon was better than that. 1 shot with the best statline available for an anti-tank weapon, but to fire it you just laid out a line and hit the first thing it touched, then lost a point of strength and hit the next thing and so on till it didn't wound something. Then there's the flamer that hits everything within 12" and the assault 6 bolters and the small blast krak missiles that are frag grenades and so on.
*** Here is an example: [https://web.archive.org/web/20130430100438/http://dawnofwar.filefront.com/file/Movie_Marines;72407] Basically doing that would make them obscenely unbalanced- and they also have to convert the forces of Chaos... as it is, they strive more for balance than accuracy. And don't even think of bringing in the laws of physics!
*** However, being as tough as a Hive Tyrant/tank isn't so impressive when there's only 1,000 of you, while your opponents have many, many thousands of soldiers with tanks and anti-tank weapons of their own.
** I've always been under the assumption that each model on the board represents a differing number of actual units that combine to form the model's given stats. A model representing, say, an Imperial Guardsman, would, in one's imagination, represent maybe 500 soldiers (or whatever number is appropriate for the scale of battle you're waging). Elite units, like Space Marines, would represent maybe 20 or 30 men on the field, while still having stats comparable to the Guardmen. I've always thought of a tabletop game of 40K like a scene from any number of World War II or Vietnam films, with a group of generals standing around a large battle board, moving unit markers around with shuffleboard sticks.
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*** A Chaos victory result is an enslaved galaxy populated by Humans who are still very numerous, constantly being abused and tortured, but also maintained, by their gods, and trapped in a vicious circle of breeding and petty wars amongst themselves, while on the macro level, the Great Game is played out. Slaanesh ensures that sufficient breeding takes place, Khorne ensures that the wars control the population, Nurgle ensures that humanity remains strong enough to survive under the abuse of himself and the other gods, as well as being primarily responsible for stamping out any attempts by humanity to throw off the yoke and Tzeentch ensures that nothing happens to throw the vicious circle out of its unstable balance. The Chaos Space Marines, Daemons and Chaos Undivided factions keep the galaxy against external treats, such as additional Tyranids, and if it becomes possible, will spearhead invasions into other galaxies.
** I'm no expert in W40K, but I can perfectly see a way for the good guys to win (or at least for the galaxy not to be destroyed/consumed/ corrupted). What if the Emperor is successfully reborn/revived (see Star Child and sensei)? I know we're not gonna see it happen because the war must continue forever for the game to exist, but it's still a possibility (in-universe). With the Emperor around and no treacherous Primarchs to oppose him, Chaos would pretty much be put back in control over time. With the galaxy unified under the Emperor's rule, winning over the Necrons is only a matter of pinpointing their bases and destroying them so they can't repair themselves, and with all other threats eliminated I'm pretty sure the Imperium could stand it's ground against the Nids when they come (since the Emperor is supposed to be nigh unstoppable and they would start researching technology again since superstition would be banned).
*** "Emprah is active again, retrieved the missing Primarchs, allied with the Eldar and managed to royally screw over half of the enemies" is what happens in ''The Tales of the Emperasque''. Which notes this best-case scenario only gave a respite to somewhat fix Imperium. Also, rebirth itself would be troublesome in any less crazy scenario, since Emprah is needed on the throne to keep Astronomicon focused and the Gate of Terra closed.
* Space Marine command structure. You have a Chapter Master in charge of ten companies? Fine. Under him are his ten Captains, each in charge of ten squads. Wait a minute... ''What happens if a conflict doesn't need a whole company?'' I know the Librarians, Master of the Forge and Chaplains can lead an in-game army, but they're outside the command structure- they wouldn't usually be in charge of a campaign, not being trained tactically. So who takes over if a company needs to split in two?
** It would vary from chapter to chapter but I'd think the most experienced or trusted squad leader would lead his and a couple other squads while the Captain splits off with the rest.
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** There was a fiction piece in WD about it, which I think started the whole thing- basically, they went all multicoloured and mutated and turned on the Tau.
*** Not surprising that they would {{spoiler|become Chaos tainted, mutate, go insane and then renegade}}. It is surprising that they would eat flesh from Chaos creatures if they were smart enough not to eat the flesh of Genestealer cultists. Though to be fair, the ones that hadn't eaten the genestealer brood had a shaper with them that could tell that they were infected.
*** It's down to how competent and cautious the Shaper managing their diet is. Even a Shaper won't sense Chaos taint as such, only see its manifestations and "taste" the sometimes-resulting mutations, so either they know and avoid what is likely to be tainted just in case, or will eat what looks like no big deal. Or maybe isn't even mutated at all yet, just a bunch of human bandits whose only warning signs are unusual tattoos, an odd sacrificial dagger, etc. Since in dubious cases the Shaper needs to taste things first to tell whether it's good to it, insufficiently paranoid Shapers in prolonged contact with Chaos-tainted prey are likely to be repeatedly exposed to the taint, and gradually affected until subverted or possessed (if they don't die first). Then all those Kroot relying on the Shaper who succumbed will be easier to taint and "lead astray".
* Where'd this idea that lasguns could blow off limbs come from? In all the years I've been involved with 40K, I never came across anything that said that.
** It's been stated repeatedly within the setting. Lasguns have variable power settings, and at full power they can tear limbs off and shoot through two meters of concrete. I don't remember the exact soucebook (I think 2nd Ed. Imperial Guard Codex?) explicitly mentioned that power level, and both the ''[[Gaunt's Ghosts]]'' and ''[[Ciaphas Cain]]'' books are consistent with this interpretation.
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** I've seen some articles on the old Games-Workshop page about daemon possessed Tau Battlesuits. Also, it's been stated that the Tau have a minimal Warp presence. Minimal, sure, but they still have one.
*** Their warp presence is small enough to keep them sentient beings, pretty much - they're vulnerable to Daemons and psykers, but they're not able to be psykers themselves (the Ethereal Mind Mojo is pheromonal, if it even exists) and Chaos isn't really interested in them because humans and Eldar are just so much brighter in the Warp. It was part of a trend in 3rd edition to de-emphasize psykers - none of the races introduced in 3rd Ed had psychic powers (Dark Eldar, Necrons, and Tau), and two of them hated them.
** Tau have "shallow" souls and [[Your Brain Won't Be Much of a Meal|daemons don't consider them nutritional enough]] to be worth an effort to hunt, let alone try and "ascend" as vassals. So the Tau are not enticed actively, and even can sort of travel Warp and live. But when readily available, they don't escape unscathed, daemons only treat them as low-priority food: leave alone as long as they can get a tastier Gue'Vesa instead, but then it's the Tau turn. Which happened when they gone without adequate protection and navigation as deep into Warp as Imperial drives push (Fourth Expansion) and thus served themselves all the way to the table.
* The Necrons hate all life. Hate is an emotion. All emotions are stored in the Warp. Necrons are anti-Warp. How is that possible?
** They have no souls. No souls means no warp presence.
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* Are the [[StarCraft|Zerg]] really [[Expy|expies]] of the Tyranids? I've heard somewhere that the 'nids only became a fully fledged [[Horde of Alien Locusts]] after ''[[StarCraft]]'' was released. I've also seen some photos of second edition models, and they looked nothing like the modern Tyranids or the Zerg.
** Genestealers first appeared as enemies in 1989's ''Space Hulk''. Here, they were plagiarized xenomorphs from ''Alien''. Though they appeared all the way back in 1987's ''Rogue Trader'', "Tyranids" as we know them today first appeared in ''Advanced Space Crusade'' in 1990, with biotech and the insectoid-dinosaur appearance instead of their original technological armaments. 1993 brought Warhammer 40K's Second Edition, featuring the first Tyranid codex and complete model range, with the Hive Tyrant, Carnifex, Zoanthropes, Lictors, Biovores, Genestealers, Gargoyles, Warriors, Termagants, and Hormagaunts. They were now an all devouring swarm. 1998 brought 3rd edition, in which Tyranids looked like [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/f/f0/Codex_Tyranids.jpg/220px-Codex_Tyranids.jpg this]. Starcraft was also released in 1998.
** Both came from earlier sources, like ''[[Starship Troopers]]''.
* If the chaos gods are as powerful as generally assumed, why don't they destroy loyalist ships once they enter the warp? Or are we to expect that they cannot overcome some artificial "bubble of real space" in their very own dimension? "Ruinous powers" indeed...
** Mostly because the Chaos Gods don't ''care'' enough to bother with Imperium ships. For the most part, they ignore them because they don't much care whether Chaos wins against the Imperium. They just care that their particular agendas are being pursued. The guys who are generally hostile toward the Imperium and perate under the "Chaos" namesake are mostly mortals who've earned favor of a warp entity of one sort or another.
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* Did the Eldar Empire have any contact with humanity before their fall? Seeing how as they were at their height during humanity's Dark Age of Technology, it seems pretty feasible.
** Yes.
** Probably limited. The common Eldar were more like Dark Eldar, but without soul-sucking problem, thus mostly concerned with hedonism and status among their own before eventually all got sucked into Eye of Terror. The conflicts couldn't be widespread in that both sides were more than powerful enough to make it too damn expensive for the other guy, and neither had a compelling reasons to try — once the border was established and human expansion turned elsewhere, the rest was just a matter of occasional individual interest.
* How do you pronounce the names of the four Chaos gods? I've never played the game but I know about it through cultural osmosis (and tvtropes!).
** Nurgle- Seems straightforward. Rhymes with "burgle?"
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**** You seem to be drastically understating the consequences of allowing the Emperor to die. Say that the theory turns out to be false and the Emperor just stays dead. Now the Imperium has just lost its one and only method of FTL travel, effectively cutting all their sectors in space off from one another and leaving them in the dark to be picked off one by one by the Imperium's numerous enemies. Yes, they could try, but they simply have far too much to lose should the plan fail.
*** The bit about shutting down the FTL is especially important. FTL is the only thing keeping the Imperium together. Cut that, and there's no Imperium, just individual worlds that will die off one by one without Guard/Space marine support and interstellar trade. Hive worlds starve, agriworlds have no support to defend themselves, and the enemies of mankind have a field day. They won't risk it for possible zero return.
** It got breached when Magnus tried to warn Emprah about Horus, then he was busy sorting out the immediate consequences, and then he had a war on his hands. So it remains closed only via emergency means of Throne control simply because he didn't have time to repair, block or remove it properly.
* In related news, why is the Astronomican made as retarded as possible? 1. It's a beacon, but still needs the Emperor's will to direct its power. Is that so. He's obviously not contributing any power, because he's trapped between life and death and can't do shit. 2. If the Empire's FTL travel uses beacon-based navigation, they are also using coordinates. Now everything in the Milky Way shifts around constantly, but on a cosmic time scale where even 40,000 years is about as significant as a second's fart. And updating the Galactic map would provide a nice bread-winning avenue for that many extra Imperial citizens. 3. It is a [[Card-Carrying Villain|pointlessly evil]] solution. Why have just the one huge beacon that stretched even the height of the Empire's technological progress, and kills every one of its crew within months, instead of building smaller beacons on each world, creating a much more useful signal map in the Warp? 4. Why doesn't it use a lot more psykers, so they don't wear themselves out? If the Astronomican crew would live their full lives, that's two orders of magnitude AT LEAST shaved off the needed number in the long term. Moreover if these people live long enough they can reproduce. Way more Psykers = way more Tyranids etc. rendered extra crispy. The same % would fall to Chaos, so that's not an issue. I know common sense takes a back seat to horror in WH40K, but the Astronomican [[Full Metal Jacket|took a giant shit on]] my willing suspension of dispelief when I read about it.
** Yes the Emperor does do stuff, he essentially acts as the power source and light of the Astronomican he is such a strong psychic presence that people can use it to track where they are in relation to Tera at all times meaning they don't get lost. Warp travel is impossible to reliably track a course for that will work twice on too because it is constantly shifting thus necessitating a relatively constant beacon for people to be able to track their movements. On the "why have one huge beacon" question, they would if they could but they cant the Astronomican is a technology that they have no chance of ever recreating, it was built and designed by the Emperor himself who has no way of telling them how to make one and they arent gonna try and reverse engineer it for fear of breaking the one thing that keeps the Imperium alive. They also are using as many Psykers as is physically possibly, they need the navigators to actually pilot the ships in warp so there is no way they could do that, the Inquisition uses a few Psykers and would cause hell if someone started using Grey Knights as fuel for the Astronomicon, and the Space Marines need their Librarians for combat support and much needed psychic protection. Psykers are rare and they already use a lot, it doesnt help that the Imperium
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* If the Alpha Legion really are undercover Loyalists, how are they keeping their true intentions from the Chaos Gods, who are you know, '''GODS'''?
** They aren't omnipotent or all knowing. Being a god does not necessarily mean you know everything.
** Nor even particularly interested, until someone consistently attracts their attention with acts that "call to them". Or someone relatively important to the fates of Galaxy does something out of it, like… a Primarch with retinue disembarks on a Daemon world and tries to blast his way through everything.
* Maybe I'm being overly sentimental, especially since it's the game that coined the word "grimdark", but I can't help but feel a little sad about the Eldar's master plan. What's the point of destroying Slaanesh if there are no longer going to be any Eldar around to enjoy the new freedom? On the other hand, it would at least mean no more [[Complete Monster|Dark Eldar]].
** They won't be alive, but at least their souls would be free.
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* If the 41st millennium is the ultimate [[Crapsack World]], then why did the writers create the [[Hope Spot|Starchild theory]]?
** Either they were trying to decrapsackify it, or they were intentionally setting up hope so they could dash it against the rocks.
** To show why those who ''know'' how bad it is don't just give up?
* Who is the most badass human in the Warhammer universe?
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