Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Headscratchers/Season 7: Difference between revisions

 

== Willow's Gun ==

** Willow's magic was affecting his mind. It's been shown that Willow's will can affect the world - she wanted the situation to play out exactly the same, and for that she needed the man to sell her the gun. It was probably entirely subconscious.

* Having never bought a firearm myself, I'm not too sure about the rules, but it's clear that this dealer was specifically the same one who had sold Warren a gun (that he used to kill Tara). Would it help if Warren had had something on file with the gun dealer showing he passed a background check within the last 6 months (or so)? While Willow's spell changed not only her appearance but her clothes too, it seems likely that her wallet became a guy's wallet with her ID changing to have Warren's face and name as well. Perhaps it could have been shown on-screen, but the whole "proper registration of a firearm" thing would sort of break the flow of the drama in the story.

** Here's the problem with Anya: if you hold her responsible in a way that demands legal culpability for what she did as a vengeance demon, then this also demands that she has legal rights. As such, Buffy's attempt to kill her would be attempted murder. And every slain vampire, every felled demon, every monster on her hit list would be a crime. You can't say that Buffy's absolved of her guilt because demons are universally evil, because they aren't. As for Willow, she was clearly not in control of her actions. If she had killed Warren immediately after Tara's death with conventional means, even as he was running away, it's unlikely she would have been found guilty, given what her state of mind would have been at the time: dark magic just extended that state of mind more or less indefinitely. With Faith? She does face justice. She turns herself in and apparently intends to serve her sentence. Mitigating circumstances like history's most sadistic vampire being set loose and/or the imminent end of the world get in the way. You could make the argument that part of the point of the justice system is that the guilty not be able to do what they want, but courts do typically make exceptions in extreme circumstances: allowing an inmate to donate an organ to a dying loved one, for instance. It's just that Faith's extreme circumstance is more complicated than most.

** Warren DID have it coming. This troper cheered when Willow flayed him. And no, I don't pretend it had anything to do with 'justice.'

**** Did ''you'' watch that episode? Willow was only claiming to feel guilty about killing Warren to avoid confronting the actual guilt she felt over being attracted to Kennedy and thus symbolically killing Tara, which is why she changed into Warren (because she'd "killed" Tara all over again). And so long as we're rationalizing crimes, both of Warren's murders were accidents: Tara was hit by a stray bullet and Katrina got hit too hard on the head during the struggle. No matter how much of a misogynistic jerk Warren is, voluntary manslaughter doesn't rise to the same moral level as prolonged torture and premeditated murder. He did try premeditated murder on Buffy, but the show treats that as a bizarrely mild transgression too (even if we're writing off vampires since they don't have souls, Faith's a human being who tried to kill Buffy ''numerous'' times). And I've ''already said'' that Anya at least felt remorse and reversed her actions at what she expected to be the cost of her own life, and Faith at least voluntarily went to jail for several years, that Willow's the only who never really showed regret or faced any fallout for what she did. Am I going to have keep repeating myself every single time a new Willow fan comes along, ignores everything I've already written and restates the same arguments all over again? I've ''already said'' that Willow is my favorite character and it's the lack of follow-through on her S6 storyline that I'm protesting, so ''stop accusing me of ignorance about the show or bias against the character.'' Why is it that in every JBM page I visit, fans just attack each other instead of sharing any sense of comradary or at least civility over the fact that they're fellow fans? Why is saying that Willow's S6 actions were too consequence-free, and that that seems to be a pattern with the Scoobies, such a personal affront, especially when Joss ''himself'' is perfectly willing to poke fun at this very thing with lines like "when our friends go all crazy and start killing people, we help them!"

***** "And so long as we're rationalizing crimes, both of Warren's murders were accidents." Incorrect. Both Katrina and Tara's death are murder under the law and not accidents or manslaughter because the legal requirement of "malice aforethought", or pre-existing criminal intent, was already present in both situations. Katrina was the victim of an attempted rape by Warren; Tara was a bystander struck and killed during Warren's attempted murder of Buffy. That's the criminal intent, and the wrongful deaths are a direct consequence of attempting to act on that intent, therefore murder.

* In "Conversations With Dead People", The First Evil uses the image of one-shot character Cassie to talk to Willow, claiming to have messages from Tara. Why Willow can't talk to Tara directly is Hand Waved early on, but we know that The First is lying at that point. So why can't it impersonate Tara? The First was only trying to [[Hannibal Lecture|mess with Willow's head]] after all, surely it would have been more successful if it did.

** The easiest explanation and one which explains pretty much all of The First's actions in season seven is that The First is simply a moron who wouldn't know what a good plan was even if it came and hit it on the head.

 

== The First Evil - Using Buffy's Image ==

== Empty Places ==

* "Empty Places" in series 7 anyone? Buffy gets the Judas treatment from the entire group (bar Spike). What exactly had she done to deserve that? She has forgiven Willow and Faith for murder and trying to end the world. Forgiven Xander for all the snide comments about Spike and Angel not to mention his blatant lies to her about what Willow said about Angel back in Season 2. She put up with Giles going behind her back in an attempt to kill Spike and on top of that dumping the potentials on her most of whom turned out to be ungrateful whiners. Plus the final insult when Dawn throws her out of her own house, this being her own SISTER who had committed suicide to save her in the finale of season 5. What makes it worse is she was being blamed for things that were totally out of her control. She assaulted the vinyard with the potentials under advice from Robin Wood. She took exception to Faith taking the potentials out to the Bronze, an action which horribly exposed them to attack from the bringers and which Giles seems to have no problem with despite reprimanding Buffy about something virtually identical earlier in the season. Then when Buffy outlines a perfectly reasonable, if admittedly dangerous, plan to the team she is thrown out. If I had been Buffy I would have walked away from this bunch after the finale and never wanted to speak to any of them again. The entire supporting cast turned into total [[Jerkass|Jerkasses]] and if Joss meant us to feel any sympathy for them then I'm afraid he really got it wrong.

** Personally I thought that Buffy was being a domineering bitch that was jumping into stupid plans out of fear of Caleb. Her last "plan" had gotten Molly killed, and many other girls injured. The next plan she suggested was exactly the same, yet she wasn't willing to listen to anyone else's suggestions. She needed a great big slice of humble pie.

** Not just Molly. Buffy's rushed plan got two girls killed and many injured. And Xander lost an eye... not that this stopped him from following her for the rest of his life (despite not wanting her to take the lead in that particular not-too-clear-minded moment).

** I didn't think the plan was too rushed. I thought it was quite clever. She left some of the weaker potentials at home under the protection of Willow. She split the team into two fairly even groups, both with their own Slayer's, and gave the advice to come in if it looks like an ambush. This was the most sensible thing she could have done given the resources.

* One point at a time. First, Giles tried to kill Spike because SPIKE WAS A DANGER TO THEM ALL. He had a trigger in his head that overrode his soul, and his chip, and made him kill people. Willow and Giles tried to remove the trigger, but Spike didn't cooperate and Buffy WOULD NOT LET THEM. She WILLINGLY left a dangerous, unpredictable vampire, who had previously tried to RAPE HER, off his leash. That was STUPID. Spike, at that moment, had to be neutralized, and if the trigger could not be removed, then they had to take Spike out. Buffy later claims that SHE could not trust THEM! The woman who allowed an unpredictable vampire to have free reign and possibly MURDER THEM ALL couldn't trust them. Yeah. Buffy was an idiot. Second, they didn't throw her out. She LEFT HERSELF. She led them into a trap, several people got killed, Xander lost an eye. And what is her brilliant strategy? She wanted to go right back into that situation. The Scoobies, quite justifiably, said no. They told her they wanted her to back off. Try to come up with a better strategy. Maybe let someone else handle the whole strategy thing for a while. Buffy said no. Her entire attitude was 'We do this MY way. I'm the Slayer. I'm better than you. You do what I tell you to." She quite clearly said, in no uncertain terms, that she wasn't going to stay there if she couldn't be the one in charge. They weren't going to play the game Buffy wanted to play, so she was going to take her ball and go away. Dawn CALLED HER BLUFF. She put them in the position of either allowing her to boss them around, or she wasn't going to be there. So, she left. It was clearly stated by three different people, including Buffy herself, that she had a superiority complex. She felt herself above all of them, better that them. Because she was the Slayer. And she was acting like she had been handed the authority to lead from God Himself. The people who had her back, who kept her alive for SEVEN YEARS, did not matter to her. Willow. Giles. Anya. Xander. Her own sister. They were all beneath her in her mind, unworthy of her respect. Their opinions didn't matter. The only one she treated as an equal, with any respect at all, was the previously mentioned unstable vampire who not a year earlier had tried to rape her. When Buffy came back, she came back humbled. For the first time since her return to life, she listened to them. She took their opinions into account, and she actually treated them with respect, as her equals, as her FRIENDS again. The events of 'Empty Places' served to deflate her ego, and bring back to pre-season 6 Buffy Summers that was so effective.

** Seconded. This was my favourite episode of the season. I lost patience with Buffy's self-righteous attitude fast, and found her crash to earth very satisfying. She didn't get kicked out of the house because her plans were no good; she got kicked out of the house because she openly stated that if she wasn't allowed to be in charge, then she wasn't going to play. That was horribly irresponsible and childish of her, especially since she had been a terrible leader thus far that season. It's not just that a few of the girls died on her watch; it was a war, I could accept that casualties are not completely avoidable. What annoys me is that that she decided halfway through the season that they were all doomed and as a result gave up on training them (and no, Buffy wandering around feeling hard-done-by while one of the potentials plays drill-sergeant does not count.) I'm annoyed that she made no attempt to become familiar with the girls or their individual strengths and weaknesses, so as to make good use of their abilities - Faith's comment about learning their names comes to mind. I'm annoyed that she carelessly tore down their morale because she was stressed out. Those are all understandable behaviours, given the pressure she was under - but they make her a crappy leader. Faith, by contrast, won the girls' loyalty in what, a month? She had some idea of who they are and familiarity with their individual talents, despite having arrived only relatively recently, and she showed confidence in their abilities, while still being there to back them up. To all appearances she's a brilliant natural leader, at least once she does her stint of pennance, so Buffy's insistence that no one else could possibly lead them is totally unwarranted, in fact laughable. Buffy's refusal to do the job she was good at (fighting) because she wasn't being allowed to do a job she was terrible at does not get her any sympathy from me.

*** Yes. Look at the previous seasons, especially 3-5, and how does Buffy handle the Big Bad? She talked to the Scoobies, listens to their input and advice, and with their help, develops a plan that utilizes each members individuals talents and strengths. Glory in season 5 is a perfect example. Each member contributed to the the final battle. Willow's magical talent and her her technological skills, Anya's suggestion of the Dagon's Sphere and Olaf's hammer, Xander with a wrecking ball and his idea of using the Buffybot. It resulted in a very efficient and impressive battle that took out Glory rather quickly. Seasons 3 & 4 showed Buffy displaying a similar level of strategic thinking and skill. That all disappeared in season 7, during which Buffy acted as a dictator, expecting everyone to immediately fall in line and do what she said without complaint, and she refused to listen or take input. Hence leading to one disaster after another. The final idea, to utilize Willow's magic to activate all the Slayers, came only after her exile and return. She had been humbled, her ego deflated, and again started listening to her friends and as before. As before, victory only came because she worked with other people and formulated an idea that, again, best utilized their individual talents. That was the whole point. She had to get rid of her ego, her feelings of superiority, in order to defeat the First.

**** Yes indeed, look at the previous seasons. There's a reason that this season is listed under [[Seasonal Rot]] on the main page, and [[Character Derailment]] is a big part of it.

 

== Where Did the Magic Box Go? ==

** They couldn't justify still having it. In season six Anya became the sole owner, and after becoming a vengeance demon again she didn't need it anymore. Because of this, after Willow destroyed it it wouldn't have made sense for her to keep it.

** Besides, it SHOULD feel static and claustrophobic in S7. That's part of the idea, with all the Potentials and the Scoobies crammed inside the one little house, it SHOULD feel cramped and unwieldy.

 

 

**** Isn't the weapon in question older then recorded history? Maybe it preceeded the wordage, like the theory that the assistants for [[Artemis Fowl|the Fowl family]] generated the meaning for 'butler'.

***** Not quite - it was forged in ancient Egypt. As it is effectively unique, they really ought to just come up with a name of their own for it. Maybe "sineya" after the First Slayer?

 

 

** Spike may have been genuinely good, but he also had a trigger in his head that overrode his soul, and forced him to kill people. As such, as long as that trigger remained, he was still a danger to the Scoobies and the Potentials, and hence a potential threat that needed to be neutralized, one way or another. Robin and Giles were right in that instance. Furthermore, 'Kill Spike' was plan 'B'. Plan 'A' was the removal of the trigger, which failed because Spike not only did not cooperate, but actively RESISTED it, causing him pain. At that point, Buffy made them stop and release Spike. Yes. Buffy endangered the life of her friends and all the people under her command, just to save her boyfriend from a little discomfort. From that moment forwards, any lives Spike took would be Buffy's fault, their blood would be on her hands. And then, the woman who allowed said unpredictable vampire to be off his leash had the audacity to claim she couldn't trust Giles, the one who was actually trying to remove a potential threat to the world. Yeah. I have a hard time sympathizing with Buffy here. She was, quite simply, an idiot who was endangering the world because she wanted to act like an infatuated 13 year old. Spike may have been strong, and a good fighter, but that didn't outweigh the potential threat he posed due to his trigger, nor justify Buffy's refusal to acknowledge that very threat.

*** A few problems with this. First Spike is still a very valuble and proven resource trigger or no. Nobody else there can take a bullet, nobody else (Faith hasn't shown up yet) is remotely on par with Buffy. (We can debate I have the power but won't use it Willow later if you like.) He's important. His value far outweighs him maybe going nuts especially considering the potentials were literally useless until the last bit of the last episode. They were the equivalent of twenty lottery tickets to Spike's actual fifty dollar bill. The second problem with is that Buffy had assumed control. Military structures need a leader, if you want to say (as they did eventually) that Buffy was simply unfit to rule (a debatable point but one that honestly I would tend to support. Giles has far more wisdom and tactical inteligence being the best fighter doesn't make you the best general) that's one thing. However once the general lays down orders you shut up and follow. Even under the "it's better to beg forgiveness than ask permission" rule I think it's safe to say that killing Spike should have been on the assume Buffy doesn't want unlike say bringing Faith where I assume there was some behind closed doors talk between Buffy and Willow that went a bit like this. Buffy: You brought that crazy bitch here? Willow: Uh. . .two slayers are better than one. If you wanna send her away. Buffy: Ugg. . .fine. Next time ask first.

**** Spike did not have a "get out of jail free card" no matter what the series might claim to the contrary. At least not in a world where Angel went bad and was instantly forgiven (despite being insane and feral) Anya entered the group pretty much right after summoning vampire Willow and is only ostracized from the group when she returns to vengence (it takes a pretty big blind spot to think that in the time between being left at the alter and getting her powers back that Buffy's response to you're a demon again is pretty much "shrug", it's not until she kills an entire fraternity that she makes it a point to go after her. She gets forgiven immediately for that too) Faith tried to kill her, tried to kill her boyfriend, tried to steal her body, Willow tried to destroy the entire world. I'd say everybody on the show pretty much has a get out of jail free card that's pretty constantly in effect. Also it's not a superiority complex if you actually are superior and the very fate of this dimension has hung on your shoulders for eight years and while there've been some close calls it's worked out. Robin was being vengeful, plain and simple. Giles was being pragmatic. It's not necessarily bad but lets stop pretending he Buffy was being entirely irrational and he was this shining beacon of all that is good. If you remember the conversation Buffy and Giles were having he was pretty much advocating cutting the knot. He more or less blatantly says that when Glory was around they should have taken the only sure route to stop her from opening the gates and simply killed Dawn and been done with it.

**** No, it IS a superiority complex when you BELIEVE yourself superior while you are not. Faith was equally as strong as Buffy, Giles was smarter, with more resources and more experience, Willow was the most powerful individual among them (something Buffy herself acknowledged in season 5), all all three showed themselves to be better leaders than Buffy. Anya had a thousand years worth of experience as a demon, and was probably more knowledgeable about demons than even Giles. There is a difference between recognizing that you have certain skills and advantages over other people, and believing those advantages translate into having been given authority to lead from God Himself. Buffy fell into the latter camp, showing clearly that she was unwilling to listen to or take advice from anyone else, treating everyone else like inferiors and expecting to just fall in line and do whatever she said without question. It was that very attitude that made her unwilling to listen to reason when it came to Spike, made her refuse to acknowledge the threat his trigger posed, and caused her to allow Spike to run around unrestricted. And yes, he DID have a 'Get out of Jail Free' card with Spike. When Anya killed the frat boys, Buffy couldn't WAIT to go after her. She tried to straight up murder Faith for poisoning Angel, and later chased Faith down to L.A. on a vengeance kick just for humiliating her. Contrast that to Spike who, even KNOWING he had a trigger, still had him staying in her house, had the Initiative REMOVE his chip, and even forced XANDER, who she KNEW had doubts about Spike, to keep him at his apartment. Would she have done that for Faith? Or Anya? Certainly not. The only way to spin it as Buffy NOT having a blind spot concerning the danger Spike, however unwillingly, posed is massive amounts of self delusion.

**** You're order is a bit off. Lies my Parents told me is episode 17, and Dirty Girl is 18. Which means Faith was currently unavailable and thus not Buffy's equal because she's not around. That's also the episode where Buffy gets a lot of potentials killed, before that most of if not all the potentials deaths were if not entirely unavoidable certainly not Buffy's fault. Willow raw power aside was unwilling to so much as try to get them out of a house as Anya pointed out earlier. If you refuse to use your power it's hard to call you powerful even if you are the biggest bad ass in the room. Anya's 1000 years of experience makes for a compelling case that perhaps she should have a rank we never see her earn or frankly display right to. Giles being in charge is a no brainer. It's already been mentioned that Giles has every qualification and Buffy frankly lacks a lot of them no matter how one tries to spin it. If the case is that Buffy shouldn't be in charge because she's emotional and immature as a whole that's fine. Giles wasn't wrong to suggest that showing up to Glory's ceremony with a sniper rifle and killing Dawn was the best solution. Worlds better than a Rube-Goldberg fight sequence that ultimately failed. But Buffy has been the agreed upon leader for a while and not only because nobody could make Buffy do something against her will. Again with the order of things that happened Giles and later Xander were forced to keep Spike in Season 4, well before Buffy had anything resembling affection or even appreciation for him. As for the specific charachters considering everything Faith did they were very nearly chummy when she showed up in Season 7. It wasn't UNTIL the Fratboy incident that Buffy went after Anya, contrast that to vamps that she literally waits for them to rise and slays prior to their first kill, and she's immediately forgiven after that. Willow nearly got Dawn killed functionally because she was drunk or high, take your pick. Unless your argument is that Spike's trigger is worse than being intoxicated because intoxication is a choice and a trigger is done to you Willow's sin was far worse. Oh and then Willow tried to end the world and Buffy shipped her off to England and then met her (or tried to, accidental spells aside the motive was there) to meet her at the airport. Even if you factor in Xander and Dawn's mishaps as humorous it's obvious that the "get out of jail free card" is universal. If you say your sorry and you really mean it (or in Spike's case in Seasons 4 and 5 simply some combination of useful, horny and harmless) Buffy doesn't kill you.

***** You're getting off point. The issue isn't who's done what badly, and it is obvious that Buffy's love interests were held to different standards than anyone else (and not just Spike. Look how long it took her to go after Angel, when he went bad), it's that Buffy possessed a blind spot concerning Spike. Again, he was a threat, whether that was willingly so or not is irrelevant. He was a threat, who was under the control of the force that was trying to extinguish the Slayer line. Again, Buffy refused to acknowledge said danger, and refused to listen to those around her when they tried to point out that fact. Again, that blindness led to her allowing said threat to run around unchained, with free access to the very people the First Evil was trying to kill. Again, Giles attempted to remove the trigger, and Buffy refused to allow him to do so, simply because it would cause Spike a little discomfort (And said discomfort only existed because he resisted in the first place), again Giles saw this blindness Buffy possessed, the unwillingness to realize the threat her precious Spike posed, and her refusal to cooperate when they tried to remove the trigger, and he acted the only way he could: To remove the threat, without Buffy's permission, as it was clear she would not see it. The advantages Spike brought to the table were nebulous at best at that point, as it was clear that Spike was to be a big player in the First's plans. Something they could not allow to happen. Giles took the right course of action, the necessary and pragmatic decision: The neutralization of a potential threat, when Buffy and the others were unwilling to. That Giles clearly recognized the severity of the threat Spike posed with his trigger intact speaks volumes about just how serious that danger was, as he had previously, as early as season 5, recognized the asset Spike could be when the chips were down. Now, here he was attempting to kill that same asset, because he recognized that things had changed, and said asset now posed an immense danger, even if Buffy was not willing to.

 

== Potentials are useless ==

 

Everyone sucks but Buffy. She made her feelings about that very clear. If they are all going to die anyway how come Buffy doesn't just leave them to fight herself?

 

== The Guardians ==

 

== Watcher's Council wiped out? ==

Is it just that after HQ blew up that the survivors all just said screw it I’m done with this Watcher business? We know Wesley’s father survived, he didn’t think the end of the world was a sufficient reason to get off his ass and go meet that troublesome girl everyone’s been on about for most of the decade?

* The real problem is that the Watchers Council organization has been blown up. Before that, they could probably communicate with each other, meet up with each other, or have a base to rally at. After this, they lost most of their members. And keep in mind, this wasn't a single bomb, before the Watchers Council in London is destroyed, there are reports of attacks on Watchers [[H Qs]] in other areas of the globe. Also, if Wesley's father is to be believed(even if it was a cyborg posing as him), the Watchers still exist, and are rebuilding. Their resources, presumably, are being used for that, while Giles and Buffy hijacked as many Slayers and other Watchers resources for dealing with the First. We know from Fray that the Watchers exist until the last one immolates himself in her presence, so they do survive, presumably Caleb's bombing of them was a crippling blow that they never recovered from.

 

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[[Category:Headscratchers]]

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[[Category:Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Headscratchers]]