39,327
edits
Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Headscratchers/Season 7: Difference between revisions
Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Headscratchers/Season 7 (view source)
Revision as of 17:17, 11 April 2017
, 7 years agoupdate links
m (removed Category:Buffy Season 7 using HotCat) |
(update links) |
||
Line 5:
== Willow's Gun ==
* In "The Killer in Me", what appears to be a dead man walks into a gun shop with no ID or Handgun Safety Certificate, picks out a gun and buys it without a method of payment, and immediately walks off with it without filling out a single form or waiting ten days. Now, the entire episode is a [[
** Willow's magic was affecting his mind. It's been shown that Willow's will can affect the world - she wanted the situation to play out exactly the same, and for that she needed the man to sell her the gun. It was probably entirely subconscious.
* Having never bought a firearm myself, I'm not too sure about the rules, but it's clear that this dealer was specifically the same one who had sold Warren a gun (that he used to kill Tara). Would it help if Warren had had something on file with the gun dealer showing he passed a background check within the last 6 months (or so)? While Willow's spell changed not only her appearance but her clothes too, it seems likely that her wallet became a guy's wallet with her ID changing to have Warren's face and name as well. Perhaps it could have been shown on-screen, but the whole "proper registration of a firearm" thing would sort of break the flow of the drama in the story.
Line 51:
** Here's the problem with Anya: if you hold her responsible in a way that demands legal culpability for what she did as a vengeance demon, then this also demands that she has legal rights. As such, Buffy's attempt to kill her would be attempted murder. And every slain vampire, every felled demon, every monster on her hit list would be a crime. You can't say that Buffy's absolved of her guilt because demons are universally evil, because they aren't. As for Willow, she was clearly not in control of her actions. If she had killed Warren immediately after Tara's death with conventional means, even as he was running away, it's unlikely she would have been found guilty, given what her state of mind would have been at the time: dark magic just extended that state of mind more or less indefinitely. With Faith? She does face justice. She turns herself in and apparently intends to serve her sentence. Mitigating circumstances like history's most sadistic vampire being set loose and/or the imminent end of the world get in the way. You could make the argument that part of the point of the justice system is that the guilty not be able to do what they want, but courts do typically make exceptions in extreme circumstances: allowing an inmate to donate an organ to a dying loved one, for instance. It's just that Faith's extreme circumstance is more complicated than most.
** Warren DID have it coming. This troper cheered when Willow flayed him. And no, I don't pretend it had anything to do with 'justice.'
*** I agree, I also cheered when Warren suddenly lost his skin. Anyway, OP, did you even see the episode "The Killer In Me"? Willow felt horrible guilt for killing Warren, which she said plenty of times. Xander and the others did kind of try to justify it with "he deserved it", and well, he DID kind of deserve it. What Willow did wasn't justice, and it was evil, but it can't even be lumped in the same category as what Warren did out of malice and spite, killing both Tara and Katrina, and almost killing Buffy. It's pretty clear that Willow never forgot what she had done, and she felt guilt about it for the rest of series. Anya is another strange case because she was a vengeance demon. It was her JOB to murder or brutally maim men. The only murders she does on the show after she becomes a main character are the frat boys. She feels horrible and ends up resurrecting them all, meaning to sacrifice herself (it's not her fault that Halfrek was sacrificed instead, she didn't think D'Hoffryn would do that, and she lost her powers again). And Buffy was entirely prepared to kill her, as shown in the fight between them, it's not like Anya would have gotten away with it while her friends acted like nothing happened.
**** Did ''you'' watch that episode? Willow was only claiming to feel guilty about killing Warren to avoid confronting the actual guilt she felt over being attracted to Kennedy and thus symbolically killing Tara, which is why she changed into Warren (because she'd "killed" Tara all over again). And so long as we're rationalizing crimes, both of Warren's murders were accidents: Tara was hit by a stray bullet and Katrina got hit too hard on the head during the struggle. No matter how much of a misogynistic jerk Warren is, voluntary manslaughter doesn't rise to the same moral level as prolonged torture and premeditated murder. He did try premeditated murder on Buffy, but the show treats that as a bizarrely mild transgression too (even if we're writing off vampires since they don't have souls, Faith's a human being who tried to kill Buffy ''numerous'' times). And I've ''already said'' that Anya at least felt remorse and reversed her actions at what she expected to be the cost of her own life, and Faith at least voluntarily went to jail for several years, that Willow's the only who never really showed regret or faced any fallout for what she did. Am I going to have keep repeating myself every single time a new Willow fan comes along, ignores everything I've already written and restates the same arguments all over again? I've ''already said'' that Willow is my favorite character and it's the lack of follow-through on her S6 storyline that I'm protesting, so ''stop accusing me of ignorance about the show or bias against the character.'' Why is it that in every JBM page I visit, fans just attack each other instead of sharing any sense of comradary or at least civility over the fact that they're fellow fans? Why is saying that Willow's S6 actions were too consequence-free, and that that seems to be a pattern with the Scoobies, such a personal affront, especially when Joss ''himself'' is perfectly willing to poke fun at this very thing with lines like "when our friends go all crazy and start killing people, we help them!"
***** "And so long as we're rationalizing crimes, both of Warren's murders were accidents." Incorrect. Both Katrina and Tara's death are murder under the law and not accidents or manslaughter because the legal requirement of "malice aforethought", or pre-existing criminal intent, was already present in both situations. Katrina was the victim of an attempted rape by Warren; Tara was a bystander struck and killed during Warren's attempted murder of Buffy. That's the criminal intent, and the wrongful deaths are a direct consequence of attempting to act on that intent, therefore murder.
Line 84:
== Empty Places ==
* "Empty Places" in series 7 anyone? Buffy gets the Judas treatment from the entire group (bar Spike). What exactly had she done to deserve that? She has forgiven Willow and Faith for murder and trying to end the world. Forgiven Xander for all the snide comments about Spike and Angel not to mention his blatant lies to her about what Willow said about Angel back in Season 2. She put up with Giles going behind her back in an attempt to kill Spike and on top of that dumping the potentials on her most of whom turned out to be ungrateful whiners. Plus the final insult when Dawn throws her out of her own house, this being her own SISTER who had committed suicide to save her in the finale of season 5. What makes it worse is she was being blamed for things that were totally out of her control. She assaulted the vinyard with the potentials under advice from Robin Wood. She took exception to Faith taking the potentials out to the Bronze, an action which horribly exposed them to attack from the bringers and which Giles seems to have no problem with despite reprimanding Buffy about something virtually identical earlier in the season. Then when Buffy outlines a perfectly reasonable, if admittedly dangerous, plan to the team she is thrown out. If I had been Buffy I would have walked away from this bunch after the finale and never wanted to speak to any of them again. The entire supporting cast turned into total [[Jerkass|Jerkasses]] and if Joss meant us to feel any sympathy for them then I'm afraid he really got it wrong.
** Oh, I completely agree. I can't even watch that episode without getting pissed off.
** Personally I thought that Buffy was being a domineering bitch that was jumping into stupid plans out of fear of Caleb. Her last "plan" had gotten Molly killed, and many other girls injured. The next plan she suggested was exactly the same, yet she wasn't willing to listen to anyone else's suggestions. She needed a great big slice of humble pie.
** Not just Molly. Buffy's rushed plan got two girls killed and many injured. And Xander lost an eye... not that this stopped him from following her for the rest of his life (despite not wanting her to take the lead in that particular not-too-clear-minded moment).
Line 101:
** They couldn't justify still having it. In season six Anya became the sole owner, and after becoming a vengeance demon again she didn't need it anymore. Because of this, after Willow destroyed it it wouldn't have made sense for her to keep it.
** Besides, it SHOULD feel static and claustrophobic in S7. That's part of the idea, with all the Potentials and the Scoobies crammed inside the one little house, it SHOULD feel cramped and unwieldy.
** Also, they probably couldn't write in a justification for rebuilding it. Rebuilding it would require money. Anya doesn't seem the type to shell out a lot of money to rebuild the store. And Giles had his own life to live in England.
Line 121:
**** Isn't the weapon in question older then recorded history? Maybe it preceeded the wordage, like the theory that the assistants for [[Artemis Fowl|the Fowl family]] generated the meaning for 'butler'.
***** Not quite - it was forged in ancient Egypt. As it is effectively unique, they really ought to just come up with a name of their own for it. Maybe "sineya" after the First Slayer?
****** Actually, The Scythe most closely resembles a [http://www.kinlochanderson.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/250x333/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_13_4.jpg lochaber axe], a weapon used in the Scottish Highlands around the 12th century, related closely to the Bardiche and more distantly to... [[Name Drop|the scythe]]. Historians believe the lochaber axe may have been used both in war and in farming, being used to reap crops much like a scythe. So besides being a symbolic name (death carries a scythe), to a manner of thinking the Slayers' weapon is being correctly identified by its function.
Line 182:
** Spike may have been genuinely good, but he also had a trigger in his head that overrode his soul, and forced him to kill people. As such, as long as that trigger remained, he was still a danger to the Scoobies and the Potentials, and hence a potential threat that needed to be neutralized, one way or another. Robin and Giles were right in that instance. Furthermore, 'Kill Spike' was plan 'B'. Plan 'A' was the removal of the trigger, which failed because Spike not only did not cooperate, but actively RESISTED it, causing him pain. At that point, Buffy made them stop and release Spike. Yes. Buffy endangered the life of her friends and all the people under her command, just to save her boyfriend from a little discomfort. From that moment forwards, any lives Spike took would be Buffy's fault, their blood would be on her hands. And then, the woman who allowed said unpredictable vampire to be off his leash had the audacity to claim she couldn't trust Giles, the one who was actually trying to remove a potential threat to the world. Yeah. I have a hard time sympathizing with Buffy here. She was, quite simply, an idiot who was endangering the world because she wanted to act like an infatuated 13 year old. Spike may have been strong, and a good fighter, but that didn't outweigh the potential threat he posed due to his trigger, nor justify Buffy's refusal to acknowledge that very threat.
*** A few problems with this. First Spike is still a very valuble and proven resource trigger or no. Nobody else there can take a bullet, nobody else (Faith hasn't shown up yet) is remotely on par with Buffy. (We can debate I have the power but won't use it Willow later if you like.) He's important. His value far outweighs him maybe going nuts especially considering the potentials were literally useless until the last bit of the last episode. They were the equivalent of twenty lottery tickets to Spike's actual fifty dollar bill. The second problem with is that Buffy had assumed control. Military structures need a leader, if you want to say (as they did eventually) that Buffy was simply unfit to rule (a debatable point but one that honestly I would tend to support. Giles has far more wisdom and tactical inteligence being the best fighter doesn't make you the best general) that's one thing. However once the general lays down orders you shut up and follow. Even under the "it's better to beg forgiveness than ask permission" rule I think it's safe to say that killing Spike should have been on the assume Buffy doesn't want unlike say bringing Faith where I assume there was some behind closed doors talk between Buffy and Willow that went a bit like this. Buffy: You brought that crazy bitch here? Willow: Uh. . .two slayers are better than one. If you wanna send her away. Buffy: Ugg. . .fine. Next time ask first.
**** Again, Spike's skills do not outweigh the very real threat he posed due to his trigger. And that threat was not simply to the Potentials, but to the world at large. And the fact that he posed a very real danger to the Potentials is enough of a reason to neutralize him as a threat. The First Evil wasn't doing what it did for shits and giggles. It had a very real plan: The exterminate the Slayer line, and make sure their could be no more Slayers. As far as the Scoobies knew at that moment, the Potentials under their care were the last ones remaining, the very last of the Slayer line. And Buffy was willing to let the First have an agent with which to get to those very people she was supposed to be protecting. Between that and her numerous botched battles, Buffy was doing a damn good job of wiping out the Slayer line all by herself. The First didn't need to really do anything else. Furthermore, if a general is reckless, and endangers their own people through their blindness to threats, the way Buffy did with Spike, then the men under their command will usually remove said reckless leader FROM command, for the good of the unit. Usually by making sure they meet with an 'accident'. Fragging is very common in the military in situations just like that. As Anya said, Spike had a 'Get Out of Jail Free' card with Buffy that no one else had. She had clearly demonstrated that she was BLIND to the danger Spike posed, and she was too self-absorbed and arrogant to listen when they tried to make her realize that (it was canon that she had a superiority complex), and refused to listen to anyone's opinion but Spike's. Those simple facts meant that Giles and Robin had simply NO OTHER CHOICE but to take Spike out. They, unlike her, were not blind to the danger, were not acting, as the troper who started this question said, like a 13 year old girl with a crush. They saw a very real and very serious threat to their cause, and a 'leader' who was not only unwilling to do anything about that threat, but was, probably willingly, blind to it. As such, they tried to do what they HAD to do under the circumstances. To do anything else would be to leave said threat free to do whatever it wanted. Which was not acceptable.
**** Spike did not have a "get out of jail free card" no matter what the series might claim to the contrary. At least not in a world where Angel went bad and was instantly forgiven (despite being insane and feral) Anya entered the group pretty much right after summoning vampire Willow and is only ostracized from the group when she returns to vengence (it takes a pretty big blind spot to think that in the time between being left at the alter and getting her powers back that Buffy's response to you're a demon again is pretty much "shrug", it's not until she kills an entire fraternity that she makes it a point to go after her. She gets forgiven immediately for that too) Faith tried to kill her, tried to kill her boyfriend, tried to steal her body, Willow tried to destroy the entire world. I'd say everybody on the show pretty much has a get out of jail free card that's pretty constantly in effect. Also it's not a superiority complex if you actually are superior and the very fate of this dimension has hung on your shoulders for eight years and while there've been some close calls it's worked out. Robin was being vengeful, plain and simple. Giles was being pragmatic. It's not necessarily bad but lets stop pretending he Buffy was being entirely irrational and he was this shining beacon of all that is good. If you remember the conversation Buffy and Giles were having he was pretty much advocating cutting the knot. He more or less blatantly says that when Glory was around they should have taken the only sure route to stop her from opening the gates and simply killed Dawn and been done with it.
**** No, it IS a superiority complex when you BELIEVE yourself superior while you are not. Faith was equally as strong as Buffy, Giles was smarter, with more resources and more experience, Willow was the most powerful individual among them (something Buffy herself acknowledged in season 5), all all three showed themselves to be better leaders than Buffy. Anya had a thousand years worth of experience as a demon, and was probably more knowledgeable about demons than even Giles. There is a difference between recognizing that you have certain skills and advantages over other people, and believing those advantages translate into having been given authority to lead from God Himself. Buffy fell into the latter camp, showing clearly that she was unwilling to listen to or take advice from anyone else, treating everyone else like inferiors and expecting to just fall in line and do whatever she said without question. It was that very attitude that made her unwilling to listen to reason when it came to Spike, made her refuse to acknowledge the threat his trigger posed, and caused her to allow Spike to run around unrestricted. And yes, he DID have a 'Get out of Jail Free' card with Spike. When Anya killed the frat boys, Buffy couldn't WAIT to go after her. She tried to straight up murder Faith for poisoning Angel, and later chased Faith down to L.A. on a vengeance kick just for humiliating her. Contrast that to Spike who, even KNOWING he had a trigger, still had him staying in her house, had the Initiative REMOVE his chip, and even forced XANDER, who she KNEW had doubts about Spike, to keep him at his apartment. Would she have done that for Faith? Or Anya? Certainly not. The only way to spin it as Buffy NOT having a blind spot concerning the danger Spike, however unwillingly, posed is massive amounts of self delusion.
Line 212:
== Watcher's Council wiped out? ==
I know this is just how fiction works sometimes and I need to stop being annoyed by it but how did, as far as we can tell, the Watcher’s Council get wiped out? It’s the same problem I have with the Beast’s assault on Wolfram & Hart where everybody dies. It’s virtually impossible to take out everybody in any organization, doubly so with a single attack. I know there was a bomb but just like nuking Congress and White House wouldn’t get rid of the US government simply because a lot of fairly important people, to say nothing of the day to day people would simply be else where. If Giles and the Council Members who captured Faith are anything to go by there should be plenty of Watcher’s fully capable of fighting of a Bringer that didn’t catch them completely by surprise. Especially if any of them were on par with late Wesley’s pragmatism and thought that owning a shotgun is a perfectly acceptable method of dealing with the supernatural.
Is it just that after HQ blew up that the survivors all just said screw it I’m done with this Watcher business? We know Wesley’s father survived, he didn’t think the end of the world was a sufficient reason to get off his ass and go meet that troublesome girl everyone’s been on about for most of the decade?
* The real problem is that the Watchers Council organization has been blown up. Before that, they could probably communicate with each other, meet up with each other, or have a base to rally at. After this, they lost most of their members. And keep in mind, this wasn't a single bomb, before the Watchers Council in London is destroyed, there are reports of attacks on Watchers [[H Qs]] in other areas of the globe. Also, if Wesley's father is to be believed(even if it was a cyborg posing as him), the Watchers still exist, and are rebuilding. Their resources, presumably, are being used for that, while Giles and Buffy hijacked as many Slayers and other Watchers resources for dealing with the First. We know from Fray that the Watchers exist until the last one immolates himself in her presence, so they do survive, presumably Caleb's bombing of them was a crippling blow that they never recovered from.
Line 219:
[[Category:Headscratchers]]
__NOTOC__
[[Category:Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Headscratchers]]
[[Category:{{TOPLEVELPAGE}}]]
| |||