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[[File:Donald-Duck-roast-bird 4284.jpg|link=Donald Duck|frame|Shut up or you're next!]]
{{quote|''"[[Let Me Get This Straight...]]. You know her; she knows you. But she wants to eat him. And...everybody's okay with this? '''Did I miss something?'''"''|'''Timon'''
There's an [[Elephant in the Living Room|unspoken awkward issue]] in fiction involving [[Talking Animal]]s. If everyone can talk, and everyone at least implicitly has the same thoughts and feeling as everyone else regardless of species, does this mean predatory creatures are forced to engage in a form of murder to eat? Or is it more like ''cannibalism?'' And then [[What Measure Is a Non-Human?|what happens when]] [[Lions and Tigers and Humans, Oh My!|human characters are added into the mix]]?
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See also [[Super-Persistent Predator]], [[Let's Meet the Meat]], [[Ascended to Carnivorism]], and [[I Taste Delicious]]. Compare [[Furry Confusion]], [[Cats Are Mean]], [[Reptiles Are Abhorrent]] (notice that small lizards and turtles, two groups that include herbivores, get to be non-abhorrent far more frequently than snakes, which are all carnivores), and [[What Measure Is a Non-Cute?]]. As with What Measure is a Non Cute, do not expect to see realistic animal behavior taken into account. When it's between a [[Friendly Neighborhood Vampire]] and a human, it's [[Warm Bloodbags Are Everywhere]]. Things get ''really'' ugly when [[I'm a Humanitarian]] gets thrown into the mix.
{{examples}}▼
▲{{examples}}
== Anime and Manga ==
* ''[[Kimba the White Lion]]'' has played a bit with this problem (despite being guilty of this trope itself in early episodes): after all animals make peace under the new "lion king", they are suddenly facing a situation where no-one is allowed to eat anyone else, thus reducing their entire carnivore population to live solely on insect (and even THAT gives them moral qualms; lucky that a man who's been trying to invent "artificial meat" eventually comes along...)
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*** [[Did Not Do the Research]], Bears are Omnivores.
* [[Did Not Do the Research|Incredibly epic fail]] in ''Pride'' which shows a vegan lioness doing pretty well until both plant and animal are depleted in the 'badlands' area where she lives after running away from her parents for them trying to force her to obey her carnivorous nature. Its essentially vegan propaganda aping the appeal of the flood of lion movies after. Also Sean Bean as a big macho lion badass probably didn't hurt funding either. In the end the entire [[What Happened to the Mouse?|vegan subplot]] vanishes to make way for a more traditional good lion/evil lion showdown as the lions from the badlands attempt to take over the heroine's pride.
* The ''[[Over the Hedge (animation)|Over the Hedge]]'' cast don't seem to take into account the source of all the food items they take. [[Everything Is Worse With Bears|Vincent]] threatens to kill RJ and [[
* An in-movie bit in ''[[Babe]]'', when Farmer Hogget somehow assumes Babe killed the sheep.
* ''[[How to Train Your Dragon (animation)|How to Train Your Dragon]]'' had the giant Green Death dragon swallow an unfortunate Gronckle who failed to give it enough food. This is hardly surprising since alot of animals have no qualms eating other animals related to them such as cobras eating other snakes, lions eating cheetahs, etc.
* From ''[[Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse]]'': Spider-Ham - a [[Funny Animal]] pig - seems to have no problem eating hot dogs, which is typically made of pork. Some viewers have pointed out that actual pigs will eat practically anything given to them, but one would think a humanoid, intelligent, sapient pig would know better.
== Literature ==
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** Bagheera doesn't shy from eating river-turtles though, who would only occur ''within'' the river. Also, said turtles are repltiles, but then so are snakes, so where is the line drawn?
* On the ''[[Discworld]]'' some animals have human-like intelligence, due to magical effects, but it's very rare. In ''Moving Pictures'', the cat half of the Tom and Jerry parody has sworn off mice since "Jerry" started talking, and in ''The Amazing Maurice And His Educated Rodents'', the titular cat always offers his prey a chance to speak before eating it. {{spoiler|Although when he was a normal cat, he ate a talking rat because he didn't know better. That's how he gained the ability in the first place.}}
** The animals in ''[[
** What's very rare for animals to be able to ''speak''. Werewolves and talking dogs can both talk to normal dogs, who have been shown to be intelligent. I don't know about other animals, but I do remember once when someone mentioned to Death something about humans being more important than chickens, he responded that that's a distinction commonly made by humans. Also, dogs aren't treated particularly well. For example, in ''[[Making Money]]'', a dog became the chairman of the bank, but the employees just did what his owner said, rather than using an actual translator.
*** Because [[Selective Obliviousness|everyone knows dogs can't talk]]. And also, as established in ''[[The Truth]]'', they are basically still dogs (with exceptions for special cases) and can't really think outside the kennel.
*** How "intelligent" ordinary dogs are is very up for debate: "Good boy Laddie!"
*** It's also sort of implied that everyone resorts to the "legal fiction" that the owner in question is acting according to the wishes of the dog - in other words, the owner effectively IS the translator. Of course, everyone knows this is a lie, but everyone also ACTS like it's the truth, because admitting the truth would be in bad taste.
*** Mr Slant says to [[Those Two Bad Guys]] in ''The Truth'' that via the Watch werewolf, a canine witness would be acceptable in a court of law.
**** Though it's clear that legal precedent isn't the same thing as "sane" in this setting.
** Note that the street dogs in ''[[
* In the kids' book ''Tiddler'', all the characters are sea creatures. Tiddler, a fish, asks a shrimp for directions at one point. Meanwhile back at Tiddler's school, the other fish kids are eating seaweed and '''shrimps''' for lunch.
* ''[[Redwall]]'' gets very confusing on this issue. The heroes are mostly mice and for the most part, all the villains (though we never actually ''see'' them eat anyone) are mouse predators (see also [[Cats Are Mean]]). The confusion sets in when it turns out that animals who eat mice (a lot in some cases) are also found among the heroes. There's one especially strange book where the mice fight [[Ravens and Crows|an army of ravens]] by teaming up with an ''owl'' and a ''hawk''. Now if you're a mouse, is it really corvids who keep you constantly anxious rather than raptors?'
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** In an episode of ''[[The Muppet Show]]'' the Chef tried to make a Thanksgiving dinner. Trying to make turkey doesn't work since the turkeys can talk; trying to make pig stew is as bad, with pigs in the cast. He goes for "veggy weggy stew" but the vegetables can talk and fight him. In the concluding scene the Thanksgiving dinner consists entirely of ''vitamin pills''.
** In another episode he tried to boil a Lobster until the Lobster's brothers rode in Mexican-Bandito style, shooting up the kitchen with their revolvers and rescuing the main course.
** He had a similar problem making Christmas dinner for ''[[A Muppet Family Christmas]]''. The Chef ''invited'' the Turkey (from [[Hollywood New England|Dorchester, MA]]) for dinner. The Turkey convinces the Chef to roast up Big Bird instead. Big Bird unwittingly saves his own life by befriending the Chef, and in the words of [https://web.archive.org/web/20141012072259/http://www.toughpigs.com/myweekxmasmore03.htm this reviewer], "The Chef ends up preparing shredded wheat and cranberry sauce, which is terrific. Until the cranberries start singing 'Silent Night'..."
** In ''[[The Muppet Christmas Carol]]'', Rizzo the Rat is about to eat some vegetables prepared by the Swedish Chef...but they join in song, and he shakes his head and relates his mother's advice: "Never eat singing food."
** Then there was the frog's legs skit, the duck soup episode...once his spaghetti tried to crawl away from the plate while he was checking on the tomato sauce, and ended up attacking him when he slapped it back. Another time, bread dough started inflating and finally took him over. And each and every time it was absolutely hilarious.
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* There was a ''[[Tales from the Darkside]]'' episode called "Your Weight Is Over" that took this concept to the very extreme. A malevolent "diet company" gave a woman the power to hear food talking. Any food, vegetable, or animal. So whenever she bit in, it screamed. She starved to death in the end.
** Puzzling, in as much as fruits (and many so-called vegetables, such as tomatoes and eggplant) are not whole organisms; they are in effect fertilized ovaries, deliberately cast off by a plant in order to facilitate its reproduction. Even if you pluck an apple from a tree instead of waiting for it to fall, you're not killing (or indeed hurting) anything. The seeds are ''designed'' to pass through an animal digestive tract unharmed and viable.
*** If you think about ''that'' too hard, especially in the context of sentient apple trees, you get a whole different kind of [[Squick]] (see ''[[
*** Processed meat certainly wouldn't be able to speak, either, so both must just be a trick.
*** Fresh vegetables can feel "pain" much better than processed meat. Animals feel pain via nerve cells, which are dead at that point. The vegetable's equivalent damage-recognition system (which is based on hormone changes and cell membrane voltage) is fully functioning while it's fresh. Of course, vegetables do not have central nervous systems to process the sensation, so the point is moot unless you have an aversion to damaging food in general.
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*** [[Genius Bonus]]: Male lions don't hunt. Lionesses do all the work, and then the males bull in and take their fill (giving us a literal grounding in the phrase "lion's share"); the females and cubs can take from what's left when the males are done.
** Pig apparently really likes bacon. He was kicked out of the Pig Fraternity for enjoying BLTs, which gave the first ''Pearls'' collection its title.
* In ''[[Garfield]]'', Garfield has eaten (or tried to) [https://web.archive.org/web/20111011145653/http://garfield.nfshost.com/2004/07/08/ birds], [https://web.archive.org/web/20111011145454/http://garfield.nfshost.com/1997/05/23/ fish], and [https://web.archive.org/web/20111011145810/http://garfield.nfshost.com/1988/01/31/ flowers] that are often shown to be as intelligent as he is even after holding conversations with them, and also has no compunctions whatsoever about squashing talking spiders (and their [https://web.archive.org/web/20111011145835/http://garfield.nfshost.com/1986/08/24/ grieving families].) For the most part, Garfield will eat anything but mice, established within the first week of the strip's creation. ("Show me a good mouser, and I'll show you a cat with bad breath.") He also abhors spinach (especially cooked spinach) and raisins (even in cookies). A [https://web.archive.org/web/20111011145430/http://garfield.nfshost.com/1994/10/30/ certain strip] has Garfield facing the ghosts of all the animals he's eaten, including what looks like a ''cow'' or a ''horse''. (It's probably meant to be a cow [beef lasagna], given its split hooves, although if he's ever actually eaten cat food, a horse might be possible as well.) Meanwhile, the protagonists of ''U.S. Acres'' are herbivores, with predatory animals appearing only as villains, unless you count Booker's fruitless pursuit of a worm which sometimes appears more intelligent than he is—although, in "The Worm Turns", Sheldon the ambulatory egg mentions that he's planning to have ''quiche'' for dinner...
** The front cover of Vol. 4 has Garfield about to have two eggs sunny-side up (truly a meal of epic proportions), when he sees that Booker, wings crossed and glaring at him, is standing there with Sheldon. The ''back'' cover has him running with his plate as Sheldon chases him, Booker riding on top and brandishing a fork...
* Wagner from the Finnish newspaper comic ''Viivi & Wagner'' is an anthropomorphic pig - whose favorite foods include bacon and ham.
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** While Franklin is never actually eaten (it's ''Animal Crossing'', after all,) the implications of the whole thing make this grade-A, prime-cut [[Nightmare Fuel]].
** The rest of the year, there are several different foods available for the villagers to discuss in their mix-'n'-match randomized dialogue, and the game goes to ''very'' careful extents to make sure to specify that every food that could possibly contain meat is either a "vegetarian" version or made with [[No Cartoon Fish|fish]]. Examples include salmon ravioli and vegetarian meatloaf. At least, in ''Wild World'' and ''City Folk''. The first game wasn't so careful. Giant cow talking about hamburgers, anyone?
*** The eating-fish-is-okay thing is referenced in [https://web.archive.org/web/20101229160302/http://www.brawlinthefamily.com/?p=1738 This] [[Brawl in the Family]] strip.
** In ''City Folk'', at least, the villagers seem to genuinely want to welcome him; they'll say something that ''sounds'' bad, such as 'I can't wait for dinner with our guest', then follow it up with 'I even researched his culture's food and made some so he'll feel more at home'. Mayor Tortimer is really the only one being truly creepy about it.
*** [[Accidnetal Nightmare Fuel|Where they can come get him?]]
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==
* One ''[[Ozy and Millie]]'' strip features a character lampooning vegetarianism, but characters range from foxes to sheep to cows.
* In ''[[Dan and Mab's Furry Adventures]]'', all critters fall into three groups, non-sapient animals, Beings and Creatures, with the ones higher on the hierarchy eating the ones lower. Causes clashes every now and then, especially due to some Creatures taste for sapient Beings. And did we mention the cow character whose favorite food is...[[I'm a Humanitarian|hamburgers]]?
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** "Synth-meat" is mentioned briefly as being the only legal alternative.
* The above-mentioned ''[[Kevin and Kell]]'', for those who aren't familiar with it, is about a "mixed marriage" between a rabbit and a wolf. As such it addresses this issue with surprising frequency and from several different angles. Kell, the wolf, runs "Dewclaws Fine Meats" and previously worked for HerdThinners Inc., two predatory ''corporations'' that hunt other animals and sell the meat. Young carnivores are specifically taught ''not'' to talk to their prey, as it may result in befriending them. However, you need to eat the animal that you kill, otherwise it's murder.
** There's also a rule that states that predators are unable to track down and eat ''specific'' prey, meaning they can't kill an eat anyone they know, or have business dealings with.
** In a post about a [[Gender Swap]] comic for April Fool's day of 2007, Holbrook mentions that there would be [[Unfortunate Implications|a considerable]] [[Unequal Pairing|power imbalance]] if "Kelly" was the predator and "Kevina" was the prey. He admits that George and Danielle are a couple with a female prey species and a male predator, but notes that they're secondary characters. (It probably helps that Danielle {{spoiler|was originally a human, meaning that she's not instinctively scared of George and she eats meat}}).
* In ''[[Freefall]]'', the only furry is a she-wolf, and she [http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff100/fv00023.htm has] [http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff200/fv00183.htm been] [http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff300/fv00228.htm shown] to eat other animals. She [http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff200/fv00193.htm justifies] this by explaining nature's natural food cycle, but
** It's probably easier to go to restaurants than deal with Helix's apparently Disney-fied view of how nature works. [[Fridge Logic|Also, the planet they live on is still being terraformed, and Florence is an engineer by training; she probably doesn't want to eat an animal that's important to the terraforming process.]]
* In ''[https://web.archive.org/web/20140103201336/http://fesandernst.com/ P.S.I.]'', the only non-sapient land animals are insects. This has [https://web.archive.org/web/20080907181935/http://fesandernst.com/Guest_DebtOn01.htm obvious] implications on the food supply in the comic's universe.
* ''[http://suburbanjungle.com The Suburban Jungle]'' follows the 'fact of life' approach. Except in specific situations, such as the workplace, or a specifically 'No Predation Allowed' bar, it's basically A-OK to eat each other. Although you might expect a girl to get cross if it turns out you accidentally [http://suburbanjungleclassic.com/?p=49 ate her date].
* The ''Shivae'' has this as an important, if not main issue: most characters are non-anthropomorphic animals, the protagonists are predators, and all carnivores seen so far are sapient (and mostly sympathetic). Herbivores seem to be split between sapient and non-sapient within each species, and sapient herbivores show little respect or concern for non-sapients, even those part of their own herd, and allow predators to hunt the latter. It is considered taboo to kill another sapient animal, but since they can all communicate with each other, it's easily avoided. Then the [[Petting Zoo People|very anthropomorphic]] colonists show up, and for some reason can't communicate with the non-anthropomorphic cast members, who they consider to be all dumb beasts...oh, and did I mention their society [[Bambi|is advanced enough to have guns]]?
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* ''[[21st Century Fox (webcomic)]]'' originally had the carnivores eat meat (a fox, for instance, once took down a '''lion''' and made him into "lion jerky"), but when a law was passed that made it illegal for people to eat other people, they had to rely on S.P.A.M. (Scientifically Produced Animal Matter). When said law was repealed, people were quite pleased with the good-tasting S.P.A.M.
* [http://www.pbfcomics.com/112/ Mr. Rex] from ''[[The Perry Bible Fellowship]]''.
** Also [
* ''[[Thingpart]]'' [http://www.jsayers.com/thingpart/thingpart67.html 67].
* ''[[Doc Rat]]'' [http://www.docrat.com.au/comic/regarding-the-meat-truck/ Regarding the Meat Truck].
* ''[[The Kenny Chronicles]]'' seems to avert this, herbivorous [[Funny Animal|Tarneki]] seem to have no problem with their non-anthro cousins being on the menu.
* In ''[[Horndog]]'', Tommy, a rat, and Leonard, a cat, engage in a conversation about Tommy's fear of being eaten. Also, a recent storyline involves Charlene becoming romantically involved with a Jewish lesbian mouse, which gives new meaning to the phrase "[[
* Played [http://www.housepetscomic.com/2008/10/03/stop-the-revolution-i-want-to-get-off/ very straight] in ''[[Housepets]]''.
* In ''[[Sluggy Freelance]]'' Trog tries very hard to stop Aylee (an alien like from, you know, ''[[Alien]]'') from eating humans. The cast at one point have an intervention for her in which she eats John a man who went through cannibals anonymous. A strip later Torg enrolls her in the program. She eventually stops eating humans just in time for Riff and Torg to get trapped in the 1999 annual cannibal convention. Torg realizes trying to change Aylee's nature is pointless and unleashes Aylee on the cannibals this fails but they all survive due to a damn heroes moment. ironically a few arcs later Aylee transforms into a dragon that eats potatoes nullifying the whole process. As far as we know she hasn't eaten humans since.
* [https://web.archive.org/web/20101229160302/http://www.brawlinthefamily.com/?p=1738 This] ''[[Brawl in the Family]]'' strip puts an anthropomorphic fish into [[Animal Crossing]]. He is not impressed.
* ''[[Panthera]]'' gives us [http://www.pantheracomic.com/?p=1620 this gem] about a freshly killed deer.
* ''[[Daddy Long Legs (webcomic)|Daddy Long Legs]]'' takes the last approach, with predation being unpleasant but still a part of life. Things can still get really awkward from time to time, though- mostly in that Harvestman's favorite food are aphids, same insect as Crane's nanny.
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** Coming at it from another direction, there are characters who pointedly avoid transforming into livestock...
* The ''[[Futurama]]'' episode, "The Problem With Popplers" has addresses this several times. First, there's a bunch of hippies trying to enforce vegetarianism. Leela points out eating meat is a part of nature, and the hippies point to a lion they taught to eat tofu. It's sickly and looks like it'll fall over dead at any second. Also the main characters casually bring up a few animals they eat in the future that are not usually thought of as food here in the present, such as parrots.
** The real [[
*** "When my species grows up, we eat our moms!"
* Interpersonal relationships in some children's series sometimes get a little...odd...if adults think about them too long. For instance ''[[Franklin]]'', where the cute turtle and goose and rabbit are bestest buddies with the equally cute bear and fox, or ''Little Bear'', in which the titular hero hangs out with a duck and a chicken...and a cat, and an owl. (Also a human girl, but that's a [[Furry Confusion|whole 'nother story]]...)
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* Chicken farmers have to check the hen houses every day because if a egg sits too long and doesn't hatch, the hen will eat it, and like the taste so much she will eat every egg she lays from then on in.
* The "carnivores are mean" subtrope is so damn pervasive, wildlife centers and nature magazines are often deluged with calls and letters from hysterical bird lovers (really?) asking what can be done about [http://www.cvm.umn.edu/raptor/education/faqs/hawkspreying/home.html the mean hawk eating all the poor little house sparrows]. Seriously. For the record, backyard hawks and cats (don't forget that [[Cats Are Mean]] too) mostly go after Eurasian House Sparrows anyway. House Sparrows, for those not in the know, are an invasive species in the Americas who have wreaked havoc on native species. Fortunately they're so used to living around human houses for safety that they're almost too easy for predators to hunt.
** Speaking of backyard birds, [https://web.archive.org/web/20110910113040/http://www.audubonmagazine.org/journal/journal0809.html this article], recently published in ''Audubon'' magazine, theorizes that ''one painting'' brought the Blue Jay of all animals under the Carnivores Are Mean banner. This isn't anything new for [[Crows and Ravens|Corvids]] (poor crows; they're like the hyenas of the avian world), but it's weird that the one member of the family generally agreed to be [[Beauty Equals Goodness|the prettiest]] is under this big tent too.
* Paleoartist Mark Witton has brought this subject up for discussion in his online portfolio/blog. The discussion, which has been rather lively so far, accompanies his admittedly surprising illustration that depicts [http://www.flickr.com/photos/markwitton/522293984 carnivorous scavenging behavior in ceratopsians]. Even though he [[Shown Their Work|explains the thinking behind the piece]], several posters can't quite wrap their heads around the idea of a meat-eating Styracosaur—which just underlines his point.
* [http://failblog.org/2009/03/26/meat-fail/ This editorial], found (naturally) on the Failblog.
* Have you ever heard of David Pearce? The Abolitionist Project? This [https://web.archive.org/web/20120507181710/http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2009/08/predatory_animals_are_bad.php Tetrapod Zoology] post will explain all. Or try to.
* [[wikipedia:Bovine spongiform encephalopathy|"Mad Cow disease"]] became the issue it was, in the UK, thanks to the ground up remains of other animals being included in the feed for other cows, without the treatment that European feed got that destroyed the responsible prions.
** For that matter, some types of animal feeds have warnings about not feeding to other animals because of certain by-products.
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* While adult humans are (almost) immune to Carnivore Confusion, most children are horrified when they first learn (or figure out) where meat comes from. Even adults are not completely free from it - people tend to be squicked out by eating animal species that are, in the given culture, usual pet species or otherwise held in high regard. That's the reason people in the West often think that eating cats, dogs, parrots, small mammal pets, or horses is terrible (though horse is eaten in France), while it's perfectly fine to eat pigs, which are at least as intelligent as any of the above, and certainly more similar to humans socially.
** Pets are seen as part of the family. Pet species have been bred to become part of the family. The concept of someone eating dog or cat meat is akin to someone eating your adopted brother, sister, or kids. Universal prey species are generally immune from being thought of in such a manner because they're rarely kept as pets. Livestock such as cattle and pigs have been bred to be less intelligent and more tastey then their wild counterparts.
*** Well, FYI guinea pigs were kept and bred for eating originally in South America (
**** In my societies where cats and dogs are eaten, they aren't raised just for the purpose, but are taken (stolen) from someone (who raise them as pets and most often quite treasure them), since raising a cat or dog well is much harder than the profit it provides. Many people come to hate the food after their pets are stolen.
** There are semi-vegetarians who classify meat sources by how intelligent they are believed to be (although how accurate these beliefs are vary, especially as science marches on). There are many people who will eat fish but are squicked out by the thought of eating squid/octopus.
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