Challenging the Chief: Difference between revisions

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* Played with in the Marvel ''[[Transformers]]'' comic. Shockwave retains leadership of the Decepticons by kicking Megatron's ass; however, Shockwave clearly didn't want to fight, because he's all about logic (which to him is "whatever will achieve the best outcome") and the Decepticons were at the time under danger from the outnumbered and wounded Autobots.
* Played with in the Marvel ''[[Transformers]]'' comic. Shockwave retains leadership of the Decepticons by kicking Megatron's ass; however, Shockwave clearly didn't want to fight, because he's all about logic (which to him is "whatever will achieve the best outcome") and the Decepticons were at the time under danger from the outnumbered and wounded Autobots.
* In ''[[Fables (Comic Book)|Fables]]'', [[The Jungle Book (Literature)|Mowgli]] finds a wolf pack who might know where to find the missing [[Big Badass Wolf|Bigby]]. The wolves won't talk, so he challenges the alpha male for leadership. It works.
* In ''[[Fables (Comic Book)|Fables]]'', [[The Jungle Book (novel)|Mowgli]] finds a wolf pack who might know where to find the missing [[Big Badass Wolf|Bigby]]. The wolves won't talk, so he challenges the alpha male for leadership. It works.
* The Wolfriders in ''[[Elf Quest]]'' are another example. Though their leadership is usually inherited, tribe members can also challenge the chief and take over. The Go-Backs, at least later on in the series, appear to have the same thing.
* The Wolfriders in ''[[Elf Quest]]'' are another example. Though their leadership is usually inherited, tribe members can also challenge the chief and take over. The Go-Backs, at least later on in the series, appear to have the same thing.
** Still, the trope is used ''very'' sparingly, because (1) elves do not kill elves and all life is sacred, and (2) the chief is always respected and loved, and the challenge happens only when there is enough evidence that the chief is unable to do their job properly. A good example is Scouter's challenge of Ember's position very late on in the series: Scouter won, and Ember was left behind to do a [[Vision Quest]] until she was fit to catch up with the tribe again and reclaim her role as chief.
** Still, the trope is used ''very'' sparingly, because (1) elves do not kill elves and all life is sacred, and (2) the chief is always respected and loved, and the challenge happens only when there is enough evidence that the chief is unable to do their job properly. A good example is Scouter's challenge of Ember's position very late on in the series: Scouter won, and Ember was left behind to do a [[Vision Quest]] until she was fit to catch up with the tribe again and reclaim her role as chief.
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== Film ==
== Film ==


* ''[[Hellboy (Film)|Hellboy]] II'' had the "challenge the leader to stop the army" version down to a pat.
* ''[[Hellboy (film)|Hellboy]] II'' had the "challenge the leader to stop the army" version down to a pat.
* ''[[The Chronicles of Riddick]]'' has the "[[You Kill It, You Bought It|You keep what you kill]]" principle embedded in Necromonger religion which leads to this trope occurring for Riddick.
* ''[[The Chronicles of Riddick]]'' has the "[[You Kill It, You Bought It|You keep what you kill]]" principle embedded in Necromonger religion which leads to this trope occurring for Riddick.
* In ''[[Heavy Metal (Animation)|Heavy Metal]] 2000'', the [[Big Bad]] Tyler kills the king of a tribe of lizard people and takes his place as their leader.
* In ''[[Heavy Metal (animation)|Heavy Metal]] 2000'', the [[Big Bad]] Tyler kills the king of a tribe of lizard people and takes his place as their leader.
* ''[[Kung Fu Hustle]]''. Sorta. When The Beast {{spoiler|breaks Brother Sum's neck}}, he apparently becomes the leader of the Axe Gang but it's more the fact that the gang is not averse to following the lead of someone who can kill them all with his slippers. However the old boss apparently defeated an entire gang just by killing the leader so maybe it is part of an established trend.
* ''[[Kung Fu Hustle]]''. Sorta. When The Beast {{spoiler|breaks Brother Sum's neck}}, he apparently becomes the leader of the Axe Gang but it's more the fact that the gang is not averse to following the lead of someone who can kill them all with his slippers. However the old boss apparently defeated an entire gang just by killing the leader so maybe it is part of an established trend.
* In the [[In Name Only]] [[Film of the Book]] of [[The Postman]], in the Holnist Clan/Army, "Law 7: any clansman may challenge for leadership of the clan." The "laws of eight" are given to us in the first third of the movie. They very much become a [[Chekhov's Gun]].
* In the [[In Name Only]] [[Film of the Book]] of [[The Postman]], in the Holnist Clan/Army, "Law 7: any clansman may challenge for leadership of the clan." The "laws of eight" are given to us in the first third of the movie. They very much become a [[Chekhov's Gun]].
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* King Bucko Bigbones has a standing offer for anyone to take his office in ''[[Redwall|Lord Brocktree]]''... if they beat him in a fight. Dotti does so in order to blackmail him into assistance, but {{spoiler|she probably didn't need to - he has a longstanding grudge against Ungatt Trunn, so he likely would have helped anyway}}.
* King Bucko Bigbones has a standing offer for anyone to take his office in ''[[Redwall|Lord Brocktree]]''... if they beat him in a fight. Dotti does so in order to blackmail him into assistance, but {{spoiler|she probably didn't need to - he has a longstanding grudge against Ungatt Trunn, so he likely would have helped anyway}}.
* How the Minotaur Emperor in ''[[Dragonlance]]'' gets and keeps his job- Minotaurs settle almost all disputes through ritual combat, so the logical extension of this is that any warrior who has earned high enough distinction can challenge the Emperor for the throne. As a side-effect, this ensures that, [[Proud Warrior Race|as the Minotaurs feel it should]], [[Asskicking Equals Authority]].
* How the Minotaur Emperor in ''[[Dragonlance]]'' gets and keeps his job- Minotaurs settle almost all disputes through ritual combat, so the logical extension of this is that any warrior who has earned high enough distinction can challenge the Emperor for the throne. As a side-effect, this ensures that, [[Proud Warrior Race|as the Minotaurs feel it should]], [[Asskicking Equals Authority]].
* The easiest way to get a [[Cool Sword|Shardblade]] in ''[[The Stormlight Archive (Literature)|The Stormlight Archive]]'' is to [[Duel to The Death]] for it. And since Shardblades are so valuable, most Shardbearers are the people in charge.
* The easiest way to get a [[Cool Sword|Shardblade]] in ''[[The Stormlight Archive]]'' is to [[Duel to the Death]] for it. And since Shardblades are so valuable, most Shardbearers are the people in charge.


== Live Action TV ==
== Live Action TV ==


* ''[[Star Trek Deep Space Nine]]'', episode ''Tacking Into The Wind'', where the new Chancellor from TNG ''Reunion'', Gowron, is screwing things up during the Dominion War, mismanaging the Klingon battle efforts to humiliate and disgrace the popular General Martok (who he fears will challenge him for leadership). In truth, Martok is too honorable and loyal to the Empire to even consider trying to take control for himself. After some harsh truths from Dax about Klingon politics, Worf realizes that SOMEONE has to challenge Gowron on honorable grounds (such as calling him on intentionally mismanaging the war out of fear for losing his position). {{spoiler|Worf does challenge him, wins, becomes the next Chancellor, but almost immediately passes the torch to the most honorable and capable Klingon he knows (as well as his friend and mentor), General Martok}}.
* ''[[Star Trek: Deep Space Nine]]'', episode ''Tacking Into The Wind'', where the new Chancellor from TNG ''Reunion'', Gowron, is screwing things up during the Dominion War, mismanaging the Klingon battle efforts to humiliate and disgrace the popular General Martok (who he fears will challenge him for leadership). In truth, Martok is too honorable and loyal to the Empire to even consider trying to take control for himself. After some harsh truths from Dax about Klingon politics, Worf realizes that SOMEONE has to challenge Gowron on honorable grounds (such as calling him on intentionally mismanaging the war out of fear for losing his position). {{spoiler|Worf does challenge him, wins, becomes the next Chancellor, but almost immediately passes the torch to the most honorable and capable Klingon he knows (as well as his friend and mentor), General Martok}}.
** Strangely, this is not the first time that Worf determined who would be Chancellor of the High Council of the Klingon Empire. The reason Gowron became Chancellor in the first place was because Worf killed Gowron's rival Duras in a duel over a totally unrelated matter, making Gowron the winner by default. He also resolves the issue of how the government is to be run when the clone of Emperor Kahless comes forward. Strangely, nobody seems to realize that the most important thing one must have in order to get ahead in Klingon politics is the approval of Worf.
** Strangely, this is not the first time that Worf determined who would be Chancellor of the High Council of the Klingon Empire. The reason Gowron became Chancellor in the first place was because Worf killed Gowron's rival Duras in a duel over a totally unrelated matter, making Gowron the winner by default. He also resolves the issue of how the government is to be run when the clone of Emperor Kahless comes forward. Strangely, nobody seems to realize that the most important thing one must have in order to get ahead in Klingon politics is the approval of Worf.
* In an early episode of ''[[Stargate SG-1]]'', Carter has to challenge the chief of an alien society in order to win her freedom. It's supposed to be a fight to the death, but she beats him without killing him.
* In an early episode of ''[[Stargate SG-1]]'', Carter has to challenge the chief of an alien society in order to win her freedom. It's supposed to be a fight to the death, but she beats him without killing him.
** It's also unusual in that this is a heavily male-dominated society (women are considered property and must never show their faces). For a woman to challenge a man ''and'' beat him. It's unheard of.
** It's also unusual in that this is a heavily male-dominated society (women are considered property and must never show their faces). For a woman to challenge a man ''and'' beat him. It's unheard of.
* In the ''[[Doctor Who]]'' story ''Ghost Light'', the villainous Josiah plans to murder Queen Victoria under the delusion that the British monarchy works like this.
* In the ''[[Doctor Who]]'' story ''Ghost Light'', the villainous Josiah plans to murder Queen Victoria under the delusion that the British monarchy works like this.
* In [[Babylon Five|Babylon 5]], the Narn appear to use this, with G'Kar periodically having to fend off threats to his authority over the Narns on the station. The Minbari have their own version, with a twist: {{spoiler|the challenge is to stand in an increasingly lethal energy beam; the winner is the one who doesn't chicken out and leave the energy beam first.}}
* In [[Babylon 5]], the Narn appear to use this, with G'Kar periodically having to fend off threats to his authority over the Narns on the station. The Minbari have their own version, with a twist: {{spoiler|the challenge is to stand in an increasingly lethal energy beam; the winner is the one who doesn't chicken out and leave the energy beam first.}}


== Tabletop Games ==
== Tabletop Games ==
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* Fenrisian Wolves from [[Warhammer 40000]] According to the background, the only way for a [[Space Wolf]] Marine to get a pack to follow him is to become the pack leader- by killing the previous one (as part of that ritual of manliness, usually. Doing it with a gun doesn't work.).
* Fenrisian Wolves from [[Warhammer 40000]] According to the background, the only way for a [[Space Wolf]] Marine to get a pack to follow him is to become the pack leader- by killing the previous one (as part of that ritual of manliness, usually. Doing it with a gun doesn't work.).
* Also in [[Warhammer 40000]] orks decide their leaders based on single combat ranging from low cunning to high explosives, but usually pit fighting. They do this because orks consider skill in combat more important than any real leadership capability, intelligence or strategic merit.
* Also in [[Warhammer 40000]] orks decide their leaders based on single combat ranging from low cunning to high explosives, but usually pit fighting. They do this because orks consider skill in combat more important than any real leadership capability, intelligence or strategic merit.
* The Sabbat of ''[[Vampire: The Masquerade (Tabletop Game)|Vampire: The Masquerade]]'' had this in place for certain positions in their power structure. The Storyteller was encouraged add whatever arcane stipulations or requirements he saw fit, in order to emphasize how unorganized the Sabbat was (the sample: "You can't challenge the Archbishop now - it's not the third night after the new moon!").
* The Sabbat of ''[[Vampire: The Masquerade]]'' had this in place for certain positions in their power structure. The Storyteller was encouraged add whatever arcane stipulations or requirements he saw fit, in order to emphasize how unorganized the Sabbat was (the sample: "You can't challenge the Archbishop now - it's not the third night after the new moon!").
* Garou society in ''[[Werewolf: The Apocalypse (Tabletop Game)|Werewolf: The Apocalypse]]'' works like this. Their code of laws states that "any leader may be challenged in a state of peace" but that "no leader may be challenged in a time of war." Naturally, many leaders try to declare a perpetual state of war after defeating their predecessor.
* Garou society in ''[[Werewolf: The Apocalypse]]'' works like this. Their code of laws states that "any leader may be challenged in a state of peace" but that "no leader may be challenged in a time of war." Naturally, many leaders try to declare a perpetual state of war after defeating their predecessor.
** ''[[Werewolf: The Forsaken]]'' has in its backstory that the children of Father Wolf eventually challenged and slew him for his role as protector of the world. This had ''serious'' repercussions.
** ''[[Werewolf: The Forsaken]]'' has in its backstory that the children of Father Wolf eventually challenged and slew him for his role as protector of the world. This had ''serious'' repercussions.
*** The main reason the Pure and the Forsaken are fighting boils down to if the death of Father Wolf was a good idea. The Forsaken actually killed him, and claim that if they didn't, he'd of just gotten weaker and weaker to the point where the worlds wouldn't have ANYBODY strong enough watching over them. And the Pure claim that the Forsaken did it out of manipulation by Luna, and Father Wolf would of been just fine running the show
*** The main reason the Pure and the Forsaken are fighting boils down to if the death of Father Wolf was a good idea. The Forsaken actually killed him, and claim that if they didn't, he'd of just gotten weaker and weaker to the point where the worlds wouldn't have ANYBODY strong enough watching over them. And the Pure claim that the Forsaken did it out of manipulation by Luna, and Father Wolf would of been just fine running the show
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{{quote| '''Clank:''' Just keep the mask on. He thinks you are his new leader.}}
{{quote| '''Clank:''' Just keep the mask on. He thinks you are his new leader.}}
* ''[[Neverwinter Nights 2]]: Mask of The Betrayer'' has frost giant jarls decided this way. The ex-jarl you meet notes that he was beat by a weak but clever giant who challenged him after he was fatigued from the last fight. One option for the quest to get rid of them is to become the Jarl (and get a +1 charisma bonus for free) of the (self) exiled giants by beating ALL of them in a king of the hill fight.
* ''[[Neverwinter Nights 2]]: Mask of The Betrayer'' has frost giant jarls decided this way. The ex-jarl you meet notes that he was beat by a weak but clever giant who challenged him after he was fatigued from the last fight. One option for the quest to get rid of them is to become the Jarl (and get a +1 charisma bonus for free) of the (self) exiled giants by beating ALL of them in a king of the hill fight.
* In the expansion for ''[[War Craft]] 3'' Rexxar has to take control of the ogre tribe this way, after going through the trials to become a member - which, [[Gameplay and Story Segregation|par for the course]], would have killed any ogre in the tribe who.
* In the expansion for ''[[Warcraft]] 3'' Rexxar has to take control of the ogre tribe this way, after going through the trials to become a member - which, [[Gameplay and Story Segregation|par for the course]], would have killed any ogre in the tribe who.
* In ''[[Morrowind]]'', this is the only way to become head of several factions (though ''not'' the [[Murder, Inc.|Morag Tong]], strangely enough).
* In ''[[Morrowind]]'', this is the only way to become head of several factions (though ''not'' the [[Murder, Inc.|Morag Tong]], strangely enough).
** In most of the cases where it is necessary, the rules of the faction does not actually require it, providing for alternate ways... that the actions or attitude of the chief in question makes unfeasible. The Morag Tong inverts that: this trope is how it is ''supposed'' to be, but the leader is quite happy with just stepping down.
** In most of the cases where it is necessary, the rules of the faction does not actually require it, providing for alternate ways... that the actions or attitude of the chief in question makes unfeasible. The Morag Tong inverts that: this trope is how it is ''supposed'' to be, but the leader is quite happy with just stepping down.
* The Gorons in the ''Zelda'' series have a culture revolving nearly entirely around physical strength. The strongest and toughest Goron is the tribal chieftain, no exceptions. This comes into play in ''[[The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (Video Game)|The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess]]'', wherein the Gorons will not allow you to enter their mines until you beat one of their elders in a sumo contest (which is actually impossible to win unless you cheat with the iron boots).
* The Gorons in the ''Zelda'' series have a culture revolving nearly entirely around physical strength. The strongest and toughest Goron is the tribal chieftain, no exceptions. This comes into play in ''[[The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess|The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess]]'', wherein the Gorons will not allow you to enter their mines until you beat one of their elders in a sumo contest (which is actually impossible to win unless you cheat with the iron boots).
* In the [[Mass Effect]] verse, this is typically how regime changes happen on Tuchanka. Should he survive Mass Effect 1 and claim chieftan ship over effectively all of Tuchanka, Wrex fully expects this to happen to him some time eventually. {{spoiler|And hopes it's Grunt who does it.}}
* In the [[Mass Effect]] verse, this is typically how regime changes happen on Tuchanka. Should he survive Mass Effect 1 and claim chieftan ship over effectively all of Tuchanka, Wrex fully expects this to happen to him some time eventually. {{spoiler|And hopes it's Grunt who does it.}}


== Web Comics ==
== Web Comics ==


* Used in ''[[Order of the Stick (Webcomic)|Order of the Stick]]''. When they encounter a band of thieves in the forest, Haley challenges their leader - an eighteen-year-old sorceress - for control of the gang. {{spoiler|She fails miserably. In fact, she [[Epic Fail|fails epicly]]. }}
* Used in ''[[The Order of the Stick|Order of the Stick]]''. When they encounter a band of thieves in the forest, Haley challenges their leader - an eighteen-year-old sorceress - for control of the gang. {{spoiler|She fails miserably. In fact, she [[Epic Fail|fails epicly]]. }}
** Subverted in [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html this strip] of ''[[Order of the Stick (Webcomic)|Order of the Stick]]''.
** Subverted in [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html this strip] of ''[[The Order of the Stick|Order of the Stick]]''.
** Also invoked by the end of the Azure City Siegue, when Redcloak accepts the challenge of the Azurites' head priest for one-on-one combat.
** Also invoked by the end of the Azure City Siegue, when Redcloak accepts the challenge of the Azurites' head priest for one-on-one combat.
* ''[[The Adventures of Dr. McNinja (Webcomic)|The Adventures of Dr. McNinja]]'' villain Frans Rayner at one point intends to "kill the President, thereby ''becoming'' the President." He doesn't seem to care that it doesn't actually work that way, stating that he'll convince people that it does.
* ''[[The Adventures of Dr. McNinja]]'' villain Frans Rayner at one point intends to "kill the President, thereby ''becoming'' the President." He doesn't seem to care that it doesn't actually work that way, stating that he'll convince people that it does.
** The Doctor himself [http://drmcninja.com/page.php?pageNum=52&issue=5 points out exactly why this wouldn't work]: {{spoiler|As a foreigner, Frans is ineligible to serve as President! Ha!}}
** The Doctor himself [http://drmcninja.com/page.php?pageNum=52&issue=5 points out exactly why this wouldn't work]: {{spoiler|As a foreigner, Frans is ineligible to serve as President! Ha!}}
* In ''[[Sam and Fuzzy]]'', this is how the Ninja Mafia works - at least, this is how it works if you kill the ''entire'' Ruling Council (so none of the official successors are left alive). Sam, as the only survivor of the murder of the previous Ruling Council ({{spoiler|although it was actually his ex-girlfriend who did this, killing herself in the process}}), is therefore considered the rightful Ninja Emperor - and becomes the focus of all the plotting that comes with it.
* In ''[[Sam and Fuzzy]]'', this is how the Ninja Mafia works - at least, this is how it works if you kill the ''entire'' Ruling Council (so none of the official successors are left alive). Sam, as the only survivor of the murder of the previous Ruling Council ({{spoiler|although it was actually his ex-girlfriend who did this, killing herself in the process}}), is therefore considered the rightful Ninja Emperor - and becomes the focus of all the plotting that comes with it.
* Played for laughs in [http://nonadventures.com/2007/01/06/various-aged-regular-ninja-persons/ this] ''[[The Non Adventures of Wonderella]]'' strip.
* Played for laughs in [http://nonadventures.com/2007/01/06/various-aged-regular-ninja-persons/ this] ''[[The Non-Adventures of Wonderella]]'' strip.
** And again [http://nonadventures.com/2008/06/21/satan-on-the-dock-of-the-bay/ here.]
** And again [http://nonadventures.com/2008/06/21/satan-on-the-dock-of-the-bay/ here.]
* Played with in ''[[Curvy]]'', after the girls are rescued/trapped by a pirate ship, and one of them tries to challenge the leader under "the universal pirate code". ''"There is no universal pirate code. Try getting caught by a different romanized version of a criminal organization next."''
* Played with in ''[[Curvy]]'', after the girls are rescued/trapped by a pirate ship, and one of them tries to challenge the leader under "the universal pirate code". ''"There is no universal pirate code. Try getting caught by a different romanized version of a criminal organization next."''
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