Automoderated users, Autopatrolled users, Bureaucrats, Comment administrators, Confirmed users, Moderators, Rollbackers, Administrators
215,876
edits
prefix>Import Bot (Import from TV Tropes TVT:Main.ContestedSequel 2012-07-01, editor history TVTH:Main.ContestedSequel, CC-BY-SA 3.0 Unported license) |
No edit summary |
||
(26 intermediate revisions by 7 users not shown) | |||
Line 1:
{{trope}}
{{quote|''"This isn't the best one to start with. It's not '[[Show Within a Show|Sumo Slammers]]' classic. It's '[[Development Gag|Sumo Slammers: Hero Generation]]'. [[Conversational Troping|It's a sequel to the original show, but they kinda' messed it up.]] [[Time Skip|It's like five years later]] [[Easily Forgiven|and the bad guy Kanko has teamed up with the hero Ishiyama.]] [[Self
|'''[[Ben 10|Ben Tennyson]]''', [[Fandom Nod|mirroring much of the fandom's feelings about]] ''[[Ben 10: Alien Force|Ben 10 Alien Force]]''}}
Sometimes there's a [[Sequel]] that attempts to address complaints people had with the original, or build upon the original's perceived strengths. Sometimes, in its attempt to do so, though, it may lose track of what made the original so great for many. If that happens, there may be a huge split in the fanbase, with some fans saying that the sequel is an excellent improvement, with others saying that the sequel's improvements aren't worth the other changes made. This can result in large flame wars when someone who prefers the original argues with those who consider the sequel to be superior.
Line 6 ⟶ 7:
Sometimes, the company will try to fix things with the next in the series, only to make more friends and more enemies. Possible result of an [[Unpleasable Fanbase]].
Note, this is '''not for sequels where people overwhelmingly agree''' that [[Sequelitis|the sequel is bad]]. Also, it's '''not''' for [[Fanon Discontinuity|sequels which people disregard as part of the series]]. It's for sequels where [[Broken Base|many fans think it's bad and others think it's good]], usually for different reasons.
See also [[First Installment Wins]], [[Critical Backlash]].
{{examples|Examples}}▼
== Anime
* A lot of [[Sunrise (company)|Sunrise]] series sequels tend to get these:
** ''[[
** ''[[Code Geass]]'' R2 was seen by some people as a massive turn for the worse. Lelouch's plans began to become ridiculous, the Knightmares were written into a hyperspeed [[Lensman Arms Race]], and the story was basically rushed to the end by way of putting key characters through the [[Trauma Conga Line]]. In addition, Britannia's pilots became more incompetent making their [[Elite Mook]] look more powerful than their aces. [[Flame War|The less said about the ending, the better.]]
** ''[[Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ
** The second season of ''[[Mobile Suit Gundam 00
* Similarly, ''[[Macross 7]]'' took the idea of a song being the key to saving the world and ran as far and as fast with it as possible. The result is going from a sad, desperate struggle for humanity's survival to a rock star fighting space vampires with [[The Power of Rock]]. To be fair, the original Macross had a lot of silly moments as well, just not to the extent of Macross 7.
* The second season of ''[[Minami-ke]]'' is loathed by a significant percentage of the show's fanbase, caused mostly by the combination of low-budget animation and an increase in [[Fan Service]] to silly levels. Luckily, the third season met with a lot better reception.
* ''[[Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha]]
**
** It appears that the people behind Nanoha noticed how splintered the fandom became as they're making money out of both factions. On one hand, they've released a lot of ''StrikerS'' side materials and created [[The Movie]] to make the first season more StrikerS-like. On the other hand, they started a whole new video game series which is an [[Alternate Continuity]] centered around ''A's'' where the heroines had yet to grow up and the phased out characters are still prominent (and playable).
** ''Force'' is a good example as well. A lot of fans dislike the new characters, the slow pace, the overall [[Darker and Edgier]] feeling, the somewhat questionable writing, and {{spoiler|Signum suffering the [[Worf Effect]].}}
* ''[[Naruto|Naruto Shippuden]]'' has become a Contested Sequel over time due to the [[
* If it's a series of ''[[
** The most contested is easily ''[[
** Adding another layer to the ''02'' [[Broken Base]] comes the fact that most of the cast from ''Adventure'' (that is, anyone who's not T.K. or Kari, or their respective 'mons) got [[Demoted to Extra]]. Although ''02'' had only become officially cracked at the epilogue. Oh, and the whole [[Strangled
* ''Bubblegum Crash'' is this for fans of the original ''[[Bubblegum Crisis]]'' series.
* ''[[Dragon Ball GT]]''.
== Classical Music ==
* Hector Berlioz's ''Lélio, ou Le retour à la vie'' is a
== Comic Books ==
* The
* ''[[The Dark Knight Strikes Again]]'', Frank Miller's sequel to the seminal ''[[The Dark Knight Returns]]''. Many dislike it for being an ugly self-parody of the original work. Some like it for exactly that reason.
== Film ==
* ''[[
* ''[[
**
**
** There is a belief than the studio made the ''wrong'' film due to [[Executive Meddling]]. There are a number of alternate scripts and rewrites in existence (including one by [[
**
** Once the movie got the prequel ''[[Prometheus]]'', it was either a very effective horror movie or one that fell flat due to a vague plot and stupid character. The loose connections to ''Alien'' are also contentious point.
* It's often debated whether the second and third ''[[Cube]]'' movies were worthy additions, or if it would have been best to let the first movie stand on its own. Even people who believe the first film to be far superior can't agree on whether ''Hypercube'' or ''Cube Zero'' was the better sequel. Hybercube might have retained the mystery of the Cube, was more serious but far less gory, and had a unique look, but still had some silly characters and Narm scenes. Cube Zero visually retained the industrial look of the first film and was far less serious with more humorous scenes than either previous film, and left little to no mystery at all, but heightened the gore in places and at least attempted continuity with the first film. So go see Cube Zero if you want more of the same with some humor. See Hypercube if you want atmosphere and something different.▼
** ''[[Alien: Covenant]]'' was a bad regurgitation of old franchise moments or another frightening ride full of atmospheric meditation on creation and the dangers of ambition. ''Prometheus'' fans are particularly angry at how easily ''Covenant'' discarded what was raised in the previous movie.
▲* It's often debated whether the second and third ''[[Cube]]'' movies were worthy additions, or if it would have been best to let the first movie stand on its own. Even people who believe the first film to be far superior can't agree on whether ''Hypercube'' or ''Cube Zero'' was the better sequel. Hybercube might have retained the mystery of the Cube, was more serious but far less gory, and had a unique look, but still had some silly characters and Narm scenes. Cube Zero visually retained the industrial look of the first film and was far less serious with more humorous scenes than either previous film, and left little to no mystery at all, but heightened the gore in places and at least attempted continuity with the first film. So go see ''Cube Zero'' if you want more of the same with some humor. See ''Hypercube'' if you want atmosphere and something different.
* Just about every ''[[Terminator]]'' movie after the second.
** ''[[Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines]]'' is a very divisive affair. The main points of contention are ''T3'' contradicting the underlying message of the previous movie - "[[Screw Destiny|There is no fate but what we make for ourselves]]" - but it also had many plot developments that changed the nature of the series (such as Sarah having died of cancer, Brewster being behind Skynet all along, and the titular rise of the machines). In fact, these developments were responsible for ''Terminator 3'' being completely ignored by the TV series ''Terminator: [[The Sarah Connor Chronicles]]'' - however, new Terminator films ''do'' follow ''T3'', such as ''Terminator Salvation'', set [[After the End]] / [[During the War|During the]] [[Robot War]]. The contested nature of the film is compounded by the fact that ''The Terminator'' was very clearly set in a [[Stable Time Loop]]. This means that [[You Can't Fight Fate]] is true, even if the characters ''believe'' it isn't. They say things like "There is no fate but what we make for ourselves," but it's obvious that the time travel event itself is what precipitates everything, paradoxical as it may seem. Indeed, there was a deleted scene from ''T1'' where the remains of the Terminator were unearthed and taken for study, thus ensuring the construction of SkyNet. ''Terminator 2'' violated this by allowing SkyNet to be destroyed and the future irrevocably change. ''Terminator 3'' could be said to be restoring the original message of ''T1'': you can't [[Screw Destiny]], so you may as well make the best of
** ''[[Terminator Salvation]]'' is either a good blockbuster with slick visuals that finally explored the [[Robot War]], or a boring departure from the formula of the first three movies. There is a particular rift over whether it or ''T3'' is better, and with ''Terminator: [[The Sarah Connor Chronicles]]'' regarding the very different styles and competing claims to be the "legitimate" representative of the franchise at the same time.
** While ''[[Terminator Genisys]]'' is mostly derided for using [[Timey-Wimey Ball|confusing time travel mechanics]] to both continue and reboot in a way that [[They Changed It, Now It Sucks|changed too much]] (throws the mythology out the window and has old characters portrayed in a way different manner) and\or [[It's the Same, Now It Sucks|yet was too familiar]] (has many a [[Continuity Nod]] and enough familiar elements to feel like a retread), there are defenders who liked seeing something different and overall fun.
** ''[[Terminator: Dark Fate]]'' was supposed to be the movie that proves [[Only the Creator Does It Right]] with James Cameron writing and producing, but while many found it the best of the post ''T2'' sequels, it proved incredibly controversial with the fanbase thanks to again retreading the first two movies, pulling a [[Happy Ending Override]] by {{spoiler|suddenly killing off a main character (and like ''Genisys'', it's ''John Connor'', right in the opening scene!)}}, and going for an [[You Can't Fight Fate]] message.
* The sequels in the ''[[Scary Movie]]'' series of comedies are very contested. You can hear nearly every type of opinion on the sequels, as well as on the original movie. Some say that the first two installments in the series directed by the Wayans brothers are leagues better than the latter 2 sequels while others like the Zucker-style sequels better.
* ''[[The Blair Witch Project]]'' was already a love it-or-hate it movie, and the two sides mostly switched for the sequel, ''Book of Shadows: Blair Witch 2''.
* For a case of Contested '''Prequel''', we have ''[[Star Wars]]''. For those with even a passing knowledge of the six movies or the... "[[Flame War|arguments]]" that spring up because of them, this doesn't even need to be explained. In short, despite the bile, all three prequels were commercial successes.
** The same can be said for ''[[Return of the Jedi]]'', albeit to a much lesser degree in that it's usually liked just fine, but still considered very noticeably weaker compared to the two films that preceded it.
** And then came the actual sequel trilogy. ''[[The Force Awakens]]'' earned some criticism for being [[It's the Same, Now It Sucks|too familiar]]. But ''[[The Last Jedi]]'' was worse, being equally called the best and the worst ''Star Wars'' movie, given its bleak tone and subversion of expectations was either a refreshing take or a slap in the face of loyal fans. ''[[The Rise of Skywalker]]'' tried to make up for it, particularly with [[Retcon]]s to some of the most controversial elements of ''The Last Jedi'', and the result was either a [[Pandering to the Base|fan-pleasing]] closure, or an uncreative and at times [[Ass Pull|nonsensical]] mess.
* ''[[
* ''[[Indiana Jones and
** Is the fact that Indy is now old {{spoiler|1=and Shia LaBeouf's daddy}} tainting your beloved childhood memories? Does the revelation that the antagonists are actually {{spoiler|aliens... sort of}} go against the spirit of the series? Or do you disagree with all that and think it's fun?
** It's worth noting that {{spoiler|while the original Indiana Jones were based on adventure serials from the 20s and 30s which were liable to feature temples and ancient gods, the 4th movie was intentionally based on 50s serials, which were liable to feature communists and aliens. Given that it was released decades after the first movies, this idea may more sense than you might initially think.}}
** A main complaint was that {{spoiler|as close as the original trilogy came, it never quite broke [[Willing Suspension of Disbelief]] because the crazy stuff happened after you'd slowly been worked to accept it. The 4th film broke people's [[Willing Suspension of Disbelief]] with a nuclear-powered sledgehammer far too early in the film, instead of easing people into the Nazi-face-melting like the earlier films did}}.
** The abundance of CGI shots (the very first shot is a CGI ''molehill'') didn't go over well either. Things like armies of killer ants and gigantic temples were forgivable, but many other cases just felt out-of-place in an Indy movie.
** Long before that, ''[[Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
** And then came ''[[Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny]]''. A good recreation of the original trilogy or a very underwhelming retread that managed to break the [[Willing Suspension of Disbelief]] even further? Not helping was the [[Happy Ending Override]] to ''Crystal Skull'', or seeing Indy go through the "protagonist is depressed, frustrated and old" plot that both Han Solo and Luke Skywalker had in the ''Star Wars'' sequel trilogy.
* While ''[[
** ''[[Batman Forever]]'' is either a fun if inferior (mainly for being [[Lighter and Softer]]) follow-up to ''Returns'' or as bad as the [[Franchise Killer|franchise-killing]] [[Batman and Robin (
** ''[[Batman the Movie|"Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb!"]]''▼
** ''[[The Dark Knight Rises]]'': as awesome as [[The Dark Knight|its predecessor]], or not living up to it due to among other issues a bloated running time and barely featuring Batman himself?
* ''[[X Men the Last Stand (Film)|X Men the Last Stand]]'' is either a '''''horrid''''' representation of the [[With Great Power Comes Great Insanity|Phoenix Saga]] and a total [[Dropped a Bridge On Him|cop-out as far as the role of Cyclops goes]], not to mention being "The Wolverine and Jean Show" and devoid of all other character development... or it is an adequate adaptation of the Phoenix Saga that does away with plot elements that would have been out of place in the established movie canon, not to mention a ''sweet'' action movie in which basically all hell breaks loose and [[Badass|Wolverine]] owns the show. Take your pick.▼
** ''[[X Men Origins Wolverine]]'' is equally contested. For many it is a Narm-fest which flies in the face of the other movies' continuity (particularly rewriting a lot of back story from ''[[X 2]]'', the franchise's peak), ruins both Gambit and Deadpool, allows a lot of characters to make stupid decisions in the name of advancing the plot, and all for the sake of making another movie centered on Wolverine when the first 3 were essentially his show anyway. For others, the continuity wasn't all that important, Sabretooth was finally given his due with some decent character development, the incorporation of some new mutants was interesting, and the whole thing is a [[So Okay Its Average|decent but forgettable]] action film.▼
▲* ''[[X
* ''[[Spider-Man (Film)|Spider-Man]] 3'' was a highly-anticipated sequel riding off the wave of critical and commercial acclaim its previous films had garnered, and was the highest-grossing of the three films when it was released. However, critical response was evenly split between general audiences who enjoyed the story and the new characters, and comic book fans (and even some long-time fans of the films) who felt that the third film was a betrayal of all the plot threads that had been set up in the prior two films. It didn't help that ''3'' was subject to some extensive [[Executive Meddling]] on the part of Sony Pictures and Marvel head honcho Avi Arad, who canned a prior story treatment focusing on The Vulture and Sandman and forced several disparate plot elements into the film - including fan favorite Venom, who wound up getting the short shift in terms of screen time. There is very little middle ground when it comes to opinion on the film.▼
▲** ''[[X Men Origins: Wolverine]]'' is equally contested. For many it is a Narm-fest which flies in the face of the other movies' continuity (particularly rewriting a lot of back story from ''[[X2: X-Men
** ''[[X-Men: Apocalypse]]'' is very debated regarding how much of a worthy successor it is, with the whole gamut from good, passable, or bad, with even claims that it managed to be worse than ''The Last Stand''.
▲* ''[[Spider-Man (
** Later, ''[[The Amazing Spider-Man 2]]'', which is either a bloated mess showing that Sony is only caring to keep its cash cow afloat, or the most reverent silver screen representation of Spider-Man to date thanks to showing him in his joke-spewing glory and having strong chemistry with Gwen Stacy.
* The various sequels to the [[Godzilla]] franchise fall under this trope. Fans who complained that the American Godzilla movie was too different are also now complaining that the later Japanese films are too predictable due to Toho "not willing to take any risks."
** And then came ''Godzilla Final Wars,'' which was neither predictable nor unrisky . . . but is absolutely unlike any other Godzilla film, and thus is a love-it-or-hate it
* ''[[Home Alone]] 3''. Some hate it due to the different characters and further straining suspension of disbelief (a young boy defeats four spies with Rube Goldberg-style traps?!), while others (like [[Roger Ebert]]) actually like it better than the previous two for reasons like better traps and a more plausible reason for being home alone (being sick from school rather than being mistakenly left behind while his family is on vacation at some point).
* ''[[
* Fans are pretty divided on whether ''[[Blade]] 2'''s over-the-top visual style, action sequences, and monsters were an improvement over the more realistic first film. Nearly everyone agrees that the third film sucked.
** Especially one of the endings. You know, the one with a badly-made werewolf.
* Due to the fickle nature of its respective fanbase, the ''[[
** ''[[
** ''[[
** ''[[Star Trek
** JJ Abrams' ''[[Star Trek (
** ''[[Star Trek Into Darkness]]'' made even more money than the previous one, while dividing opinions on whether it was a strong follow-up or an utter disgrace for daring to be a disguised remake of ''The Wrath of Khan''.
* The [[Daniel Craig]] [[James Bond]] movies. Either one loves the return to the series' roots, or wants every old cliché back, though there are those who like the older films too.▼
** ''[[Star Trek Beyond]]'' was the best of the new trilogy that actually captured back the spirit of the series, or uninspired and (for hardcore Trekkers) too action-packed to count as ''Star Trek'' in the first place.
* ''[[Transformers (Film)|Transformers]]: [[Revenge of the Fallen]]'': it's generally agreed that [[Sequel Escalation]] made the film largely a series of loosely connected scenes featuring robo-smashing, toilet humor, or robots smashing each other while employing toilet humor. The ''contested'' comes from people who thought it was bad and those who thought that's what the ''first'' should have been.▼
▲* The [[Daniel Craig]] [[James Bond]] movies. Either one loves the return to the series' roots, or wants every old cliché back, though there are those who like the older films too. ''[[No Time to Die]]'' was particularly bad in that regard, with those who found it a good conclusion for Craig's tenure being matched by those who deemed that {{spoiler|showing James Bond dying on-screen reflected their opinion of the movie}}.
▲* ''[[Transformers (
** ''[[Dark of the Moon]]'' too, particularly on if it's either better or worse than ''ROTF''.
** ''[[Transformers: Age of Extinction]]'', which was a much-needed retool with a darker tone and a better protagonist, or sank the series even further with an excessive runtime while not improving on aspects like shaky-cam and uninteresting human characters.
* ''[[Harry Potter]]'':
** There's considerable disagreement among fans about whether [[Harry Potter (
** There really is very little common ground at all when it comes to fans' opinions of the Harry Potter films. Ask a group of fans to rate the films in order and it's almost certain every film will end up on the top and bottom of someone's list. Even fans that broadly agree tend to still disagree. Fans that prefer the post-Columbus films will argue about which one is best, and even [[David Yates]] fans can't agree on if ''Order of the Phoenix'' or ''Half Blood Prince'' is best, and some will rank one top and one bottom.
** ''[[Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them]]'' was overall well-received, which can't be said of ''The Crimes of Grindelwald'' (as fun as the original, or a step down due to its overstuffed script with [[Continuity Snarl|contradictory]] twists?) and ''The Secrets of Dumbledore'' (an improvement for recovering from some of the previous movie's mistakes, or a badly written slog that only sank further?).
* ''[[Ice Age]]: Dawn of the Dinosaurs'' is quite contested, some consider it an absolute disaster, others call it the best of the trilogy.
* ''[[Saw]] III''.
** It amps up the gore and the [[Squick]] considerably from the first two, to levels that are not seen elsewhere in the series. There is much debate over whether or not this is a good thing. ''Much'' debate.
** It didn't stop there. Even after ''Saw III'', ''four'' more sequels were made, all of which contain even more [[Nightmare Fuel]] that either drove fans away or gained more [[Nightmare Fetishist
* The ''[[Scream (
* ''Firestarter 2: Rekindled'' is a sequel to the 1984 movie ''[[Firestarter]]''. The first movie was a decent portrayal of the [[Stephen King]] book it was based on. The sequel was made by people who didn't even pretend to have read the book (or seen the original movie, for that matter). This included having the [[Big Bad]] be the same in both movies even though {{spoiler|he was killed in the first one.}} On the other hand, ''Firestarter 2'' has special effects that a movie made in the 80s could not.
* Some viewers believe that ''[[Grease 2]]'' is superior to the original, despite clearly being an attempt to mimic every little detail about the original with a new cast. (Likewise, there is a small group of fans who love ''[[Shock Treatment]]'', but dislike ''[[Rocky Horror]]''.)
* ''[[Pirates of the Caribbean]]''.
** The first two sequels, which had great effects and acting, but were not universally accepted for focusing too much on the fantasy rather than the swashbuckling adventure, and in the case of ''At World's End'', a convoluted plot.
**
** The fifth film, ''Dead Men Tell No Tales'', either showed a franchise running out of ideas or gave something new, while also providing closure to the Will-Elizabeth story.
* ''Life During Wartime'' is either seen as a worthy sequel to ''Happiness'' or a complete disaster of a follow-up with none of the original's actors returning, with no middle ground.
* ''[[Babe]]'' is a very well received film from both critics and the general audience and was well liked due to its lighthearted plot and charming farm setting. The sequel, on the other hand, is much darker, including images of a dog being drowned in a lake, and a clown having a heart attack and dying. To some, it's a terrible film that simply doesn't do the original justice because of how dark it is and because it takes Babe off the familiar farm setting. To others, it's a brilliant follow up to an already great film, and some people (including both Siskel & Ebert) thought it was even better than the original.
* The fourth ''[[
* ''[[
* The [[Marvel Cinematic Universe]] has offered many. ''[[Iron Man 3]]'' is either a [[Surprisingly Improved Sequel]] or an inconsequential follow-up with a controversial approach to portray Iron Man's [[Arch Enemy]] on screen. ''[[Avengers: Age of Ultron]]'' was a worthy successor or [[It's the Same, Now It Sucks|a retread]] that lost its way with excessive characters and subplots. ''[[Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness]]'' is a fun flick with the strong [[Creator Thumbprint]] of [[Sam Raimi]]], or a weak follow-up that barely does anything with the concepts it raises. Is ''[[Thor: Love and Thunder]]'' good on its own right even if inferior to ''[[Thor: Ragnarok]]'', or it just re-does the predecessor wrong?
* ''[[Halloween (film)|Halloween]]'' had a few. ''Halloween III'' was either a deservingly failed experiment or an interesting movie only hated for not continuing the story of Michael Myers. ''Halloween H2O'' successfully renewed the series by ignoring most previous sequels and bringing back Jamie Lee Curtis, or is a glossy sellout with few effective scares. And the two sequels to the 2018 streamlining, ''Halloween Kills'' (a fun and gory follow-up, or a [[Strictly Formula]] one that brings back some reviled aspects of the old sequels) and ''Halloween Ends'' (the biggest concern is whether the viewer accepts pushing in a [[Jack the Ripoff|a Michael Myers copycat]] as its main villain even if Myers himself is still in the movie).
== Literature ==
* ''[[
** Larry Niven had originally intended it to be a one-off novel, but many fans wrote in to point out scientific or practical errors such as the fact that the Ringworld is unstable and the question of why its builders didn't build lots of small rings (a la [[Iain M Banks|Iain M. Banks']] ''[[The Culture|Culture]]'' novels) instead, which would be much easier to defend. Niven decided to write ''The Ringworld Engineers'' to address these questions. Whether this addition improved the Ringworld or merely diluted its premise is a matter of debate among fans.
** Other fans are okay with ''The Ringworld Engineers'', but feel that the ''last'' two books in the series were where [[Sequelitis]] started setting in.
* Detractors of [[Roger Zelazny|Roger Zelazny's]] second series of [[Book of Amber|Amber]] novels point out that it swaps out the hero of the first series, a [[Magnificent Bastard]] defined by his determination and ability to pull of [[Xanatos Gambit
* A few reviewers felt this way about ''[[
== Live Action TV ==
* ''[[Star Trek
== Popular Music ==
* [[Elton John|Elton John's]] 2006 sequel to his 1975 autobiographical, classic [[Concept Album]] ''Captain Fantastic And The Brown Dirt Cowboy'', titled ''The Captain And The Kid'', did not do as well critically or commercially as the first one, though it did get some favorable reviews.
* Everything [[
== Tabletop Games ==
* The
** This actually goes back to previous editions of the as well. There are still 2nd Edition fans out which feel that 3rd Edition was a travesty and an insult to the game. Some holdout 1st Edition and OD&D fans that feel that 2nd Edition was unnecessary, with a surprising number of them keep playing retroclones based on their preferred edition. It's safe to say that this is a D&D tradition and will likely continue forward with the recently announced D&D 5th Edition/D&D Next.
== Video Games ==
* The first three ''[[Silent Hill]]'' games tend to be liked universally among series fans. Every game since has been controversial to some extent, but ''[[Silent Hill: Shattered Memories]]'' has definitely proven to be the most [[Base Breaker|polarizing entry]]. Half the fanbase dares to consider it to be one of the best ''Silent Hill'' games, and loved how the highly-nuanced story comes together, the other half despises it for abandoning many classic gameplay functions and re-using old characters for no reason. Many saw Shattered Memories (at least in terms of storyline) a return to form for the series' psychological roots. ''Homecoming'' received arguably heavier negativity for starting the [[Replacement Scrappy]] line of developers. ''Downpour'' meanwhile, is getting hammered before it even releases due to the replacement of series composer Akira Yamaoka (who had actually previously offered to score any future SH titles) and gameplay mechanics (side quests, subways, weapon degradation) that many argue have no place in Silent Hill.
▲* ''[[Sonic Adventure 2 (Video Game)|Sonic Adventure 2]]'':
** It is another one. Some liked the level-by-level play as well as the longer levels, and the gameplay variety. Others preferred the over world hub linking to each level and even the shorter levels of the first game, and the other playable characters being optional.
** This seems to be the general rule for ''any'' Sonic game that is newer than ''[[Sonic 3 and Knuckles
* Every handheld spin-off game in the ''[[Kingdom Hearts]]'' franchise qualifies, as they always make drastic gameplay changes to the main formula used in the numbered, console titles, to say nothing of how much they increase the series' notorious [[Kudzu Plot]].
* Many ''[[Resident Evil]]'' fans cannot stand the [[Resident Evil 4|fourth]] and [[Resident Evil 5|fifth game]] because they're not like the original four (and contain ''horrific'' [[Eldritch Abominations]]). However, some of those who have never played a ''Resident Evil'' game before enjoy both of them due to tight controls and an emphasis on action and shooting.
* ''[[Dino Crisis]] 2'' split the fans, with some praising the [[Actionised Sequel]] aspects while others criticised the lack of [[Survival Horror]] elements from the first game.
* Depending on who you ask, ''[[Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty]]'' is either a crowning achievement in gaming or an unspeakable abomination. There is no in-between on this.
** It seems to be a [[Parodied Trope|parody]] and/or [[Deconstructed Trope|deconstruction]] of this trope.
** Arguably, ''[[Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots]]'' is a masterpiece of storytelling, a fitting conclusion to a great series and an irrefutable argument for video games as an art form. Except it's also three hours of shooting and hours upon hours of unnecessarily long cut scenes that really needed to be edited down.
** Most ''[[Metal Gear]]'' games get this to some extent - the two PSP titles (especially ''[[Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops]]'') are sometimes ignored, and even the acclaimed ''[[Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater]]'' has its detractors, for mixing up the game play and introducing features such as the Camo Index and maintaining your stamina.
* ''[[Fallout 2]]'' promised an immensely enlarged game world with tons of deep [[Sidequest|Side Quests]] and NPCs, and most fans agree that it delivered. ''Fallout 2'' is also loaded with excessively [[Genre Savvy]] characters, [[No Fourth Wall]] humor and [[Schizo
* ''[[Fallout 3]]'':
** It is either game of the year by a mile or ''Oblivion'' with guns, in the Sequelitis sense.
** ''Fallout 3'' is a different type of RPG than the previous [[Fallout]] games, further making it a contested sequel.
* For some fans of ''Fallout 3'', ''[[Fallout: New Vegas]]''.
** While arguably closer to the original games in atmosphere and story, some fans who preferred Bethesda's interpretation of the canon found ''New Vegas'' to be lacking. Among the fans of the Black Isle games, reception was more positive.
** Basically, New Vegas had its difficulty brought up to old Fallout standards and explores more the previously established factions. Gone were the altruistic Brotherhood of Steel and new Super Mutants. In were the jerky Brotherhood, Master's Mutants and NCR. However, it didn't have the same pervading atmosphere of doom and decay and pseudo-50's society that Fallout 3 did so well.
* ''[[Star Fox (
** It returned the core game play to pure flying action as opposed to ''Assault'' which had way too much on-foot action, but most people didn't like it for a variety of reasons. While the lack of classic rail-stages is a valid complaint, fans also objected to pretty much everything else, including the innovative touch-screen controls (or the lack of a classic alternative).
** Also: that the game '''is''' ''incredibly'' repetitive. The multiplayer, as well, especially online multiplayer. While it's great on its own, it had one crippling feature: in a three- or four-player battle, if only one player disconnects, ''the entire match ends'', instead of cutting off the quitter and keeping the match going with the remaining players.
* ''[[Super Smash Bros.]] Brawl'':
** It greatly suffers from this in the communities of the previous games. The [[
** The Adventure mode is contested enough to be considered almost separately. It's either the kind of thing players really, really wanted when they first played the adventure from
* [[
** Which is probably part of the reason the last two ''Civilization'' installments are designed from the start to be easily moddable. That allows fans to do whatever they want, even turn it into a remake of the non-Sid-Meier ''Civilization: Call to Power''.
* The entire ''[[Final Fantasy]]'' series. Really, pick a sequel, any sequel.
** Some, like ''[[Final Fantasy VIII]]'', ''[[Final Fantasy X
** Some of the hate directed at VIII was from people who were introduced to the series with ''[[Final Fantasy VII]]'' and (unfamiliar with how the ''[[Final Fantasy]]'' series works) expected a direct sequel, but this was far from the only source of [[Love It or Hate It|controversy]] with the game.
* ''[[
* The ''[[
** ''[[
* In the world of ''[[Command
* ''[[Ecco the Dolphin]]: Defender of the Future'', mainly due to completely abandoning the older games' storyline for a story written by someone who'd never played them. [[Internet Backdraft|Fierce wars have been fought]], but at this point the fandom seems to have more or less agreed to disagree.
* Depending on what mood Wikipedia is in on a given week, ''[[Vandal Hearts]] II'' is either "vastly superior" or "vastly inferior" to ''[[Vandal Hearts]] I.'' If you bought the second game after playing through the first expecting more of the same (at least semi-)realistic looking characters, nasty-looking animated monsters, and floating backgrounds, as well as gore, character classes, intriguing narration and CGI cut scenes, you're definitely going to be disappointed to find that all the characters in the second game are now animeish, with tiny bodies, over-sized heads and no mouths, the first monsters you encounter are now just cartoonish snakes, no cut scenes, and character classes are now based on equipment along with enemies that can dodge attacks.
* ''[[Mega Man (
* Hello, ''[[Call of Duty]]: World at War'' and ''[[Modern Warfare]] 2''. It's argued whether the former deserves the merit of being called a sequel despite the change in setting, and it doesn't help that many disliked on the principle it was made by [[Only the Creator Does It Right|Treyarch instead of Infinity Ward]] or was a [[World War II]] game. The latter's major complaint is that it went too far into the [[Rule of Cool]], hurting the more realistic impression [[Modern Warfare]] gave. For PC gamers, the major complaint with Modern Warfare 2 was the lack of Dedicated Servers and mod tools.
* ''[[Deus Ex: Invisible War
** Most people ''don't'' contest that it was an extremely unworthy attempt at a sequel; the main question is whether it's an irredeemably terrible game in its own right because it was a bad sequel.
** Averted with precision with ''[[Deus Ex: Human Revolution
** And then there's a group who would argue it was a fairly solid attempt to hone down an RPG to it's basic elements in the way ''[[Mass Effect 2]]'' did and gets unfairly maligned.
* Regarding ''[[Knights of the Old Republic]] II'', most fans agree that the [[Left Hanging|lack of an ending]] (due to [[Executive Meddling|LucasArts wanting the game out for Christmas]]) sucks. Beyond that? Good luck.
** Truthfully, putting a [[Karma Meter]] in any game will almost assuredly give you a [[Broken Base]]. [[Knight in Shining Armor]], or [[Complete Monster]]? And ''Deity of choice goes here'' help you if in a world with [[Grey and Grey Morality]]...
* ''[[Tales of Symphonia
** While not the first direct sequel to a [[Tales
** DOTNW also gets a lot of hate for the fact that the old characters stop gaining levels at certain point, much earlier then Emil and Marta, pretty much forcing you to always rely on Emil and Marta and the monsters you recruit.
* ''[[Banjo-Kazooie]]:''
** ''Nuts and Bolts''. Some believe that it's a fun resurrection of the franchise, some think it's a good game but not a Banjo-Kazooie game, and some say that it destroyed any chance of a more traditional ''[[Banjo-Kazooie]]'' game being released.
** ''Banjo-Tooie'' as well. While the game play was virtually unchanged from the original (aside from some new moves for Banjo and Kazooie), the worlds were about triple the size, and each was connected to other worlds in some way, thus necessitating some backtracking in order to get some of the Jiggies. While many fans loved and embraced these changes, other fans of the original preferred the smaller worlds and being able to get all of the Jiggies in one sitting (conveniently forgetting about the second bobsled race in Freezeezy Peak).
* ''[[Tetris the Grand Master]] 3''. Some ''TGM'' fans view it as an improvement on ''TGM2'', raising the challenge through faster speeds and at the same time making the game more intuitive to play through a 3-piece preview, hold piece, and a fix for the problem involving trying to rotate an I piece into a hole one cell wide. Others see these features as [[It's Easy, So It Sucks|dumbing down TGM]] and the increase in speed as [[Fake Difficulty]].
* Although definitions of sequel may differ here, ''[[
* ''[[Grand Theft Auto IV]]''. Some love it for its realism, rich characters, production values and gritty nature, while others chastise it for those very things, preferring the zany, cartoony, over the top style of San Andreas and Vice City. Thankfully, the ''[[Saints Row]]'' series offers that experience, leaving everyone happy in the end.
* ''[[The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion]]'':
** It may have been adored by critics and the general public, but is a contested sequel for fans of ''Morrowind''. Not only do many claim that it was [[It's Easy, So It Sucks|dumbed down]] for console users and casual players, but it took on a far more generic art style than the previous game. The expansion pack ''Shivering Isles'' fixes the latter, at least.
** This used to be a problem early on for ''Morrowind'' with ''Daggerfall'' fans, but it's died down a little since ''Morrowind's'' release. In this vein, a lot of old-school [[The Elder Scrolls|Elder Scrolls]] fans in general have complained about one or the other facet of Oblivion's gameplay. ''Oblivion'' did shake things up.
** It was probably the replacement of the political intrigue, multiple factions with conflicting quests, and depth of lore with a rather generic "Swords and Sorcery, save the world" storyline that cause the [[Fandom Heresy]].
Line 186 ⟶ 197:
* ''[[Mass Effect]]'''s most frequent complaints centered around the vehicle driving system and the cluttered inventory management system. ''[[Mass Effect 2]]'' dropped the systems entirely, replacing inventory with a system of upgrades and vehicle driving with promised DLC. Dropping the inventory management and weapon skill stats, placing more emphasis on player skill then player level, and reducing the need of the pausing to deliver commands system tilted the game much more towards third-person action-adventure shooter from the RPG.
** ''[[Mass Effect 3]]'' is considered by majority to be a return to form... [[Broken Base|except for the ending.]]
* Maker's breath, ''[[
** Take away the tactical RPG elements that made ''[[Dragon Age Origins]]'' a callback to the oldies like ''[[
** ''Origins'' actually got some flack as a Contested [[Spiritual Successor]] to ''BG'' for similar reasons. It was initially criticized for being a poor tactical RPG due to class imbalances. Mages were almost invincible, had group crowd control, and the highest group damage. The only downside to them was that you couldn't recruit a full party of them. Rogues had the highest single target damage (though Mages had a much easier time raising their single target damage) and could constantly backstab from any direction, negating the need to deploy them tactically. Warriors had absolutely no redeemable qualities. The tanking skills were extremely ineffective, they did poor damage, and they ended up being the most squishy class later on (Mages were nearly invincible because of skills, Rogues had almost as good armor and avoided far more attacks). It didn't help that about half the characters were Warriors, while Mage and Rogue recruits were limited, missable, and more prone to leaving. Basically, the optimal strategy was taking the maximum number of mages and nuking. If everything didn't immediately die at that point, the Rogue would stun lock an enemy and constantly "backstab" him.
* ''[[Freedom Force]] vs. The Third Reich'' split the fanbase. The additional powers were nice. The new characters were well developed. The plotline was good (although the {{spoiler|disappearing teammates}} angered people who liked those character and/or had invested a lot of experience in them). But they dumbed down the power consumption mechanic from a wide spectrum to three possible values of one-third, two-thirds, or all of your power bar, which nerfed many of the concepts, and minor changes in the engine meant most of the third-party models no longer worked in-game.
* Go to a [[Sierra]] fan board and ask if ''[[King's Quest: Mask of Eternity
* ''[[Supreme Commander 2]]'' removed the epic scale maps and unit options in return for intimate battles and more detail, making it easy for casual gamers to fight short battles.
* The first three ''[[Crash Bandicoot]]'' games and ''[[Crash Team Racing]]'' were made by Naughty Dog. Everything after that is [[Broken Base|hotly contested]]. Some say ''Crash Bash'' was still good, some say more or all of the games were good, and a very small portion only like the new games.
* ''[[Doom]] 3'' is either a scary survival horror interpretation of the classic franchise, or it's a game that tosses out everything fun about the first two games, while keeping all the things players grew to loathe about them.
* ''[[Tomb Raider]] Legend'' was a reboot of the series by a different developer, with as much changes as that implies. Let's just leave it to the [[Broken Base]] whether this is the point where it [[Growing the Beard|grew the beard]] or [[Jumping the Shark|jumped the shark]].
* For the ''Zelda'' series, ''any'' console game that [[Tough Act to Follow|follows]] ''[[The Legend of Zelda
** ''[[The Legend of Zelda:
** ''Wind Waker'' itself has spanned contested sequels as well, ''[[The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
** ''[[The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
** ''[[The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom|Tears of the Kingdom]]'': a worthy and possibly even better follow-up to the beloved ''[[The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild|Breath of the Wild]]'', or an overly glorified expansion pack weighed down by the sheer volume of stuff there is to do.
* ''[[
* ''[[
* ''[[Ace Attorney
** And then came ''[[Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney
* EVERY installment of the ''[[Monkey Island]]'' series has been contested by some fan or other. Some people don't like the second game's darker tone, the third game's cartoony style (and lack of Gilbert, Schafer, and Grossman), the fourth game's poor graphics/controls/grasp on the series continuity,
* ''[[Castlevania II]]'' attempted to take the platforming gameplay of its predecessor and build an [[Action RPG]] around it. Its reception was mixed enough that ''[[Castlevania III]]'' kept well away from its [[RPG Mechanics]] and continuity.
* ''[[Condemned]] 2: Bloodshot'' added a great deal of depth to the melee combat system, sharpened the graphics, and put in much more interesting forensic investigation. You either like it for those, or you dislike it for abandoning the creepy slums and giving the plot a ''ludicrous'' twist.
* There are exactly three camps the fandom has taken to in regards to ''[[Metroid: Other M]]''. It is either:
** The first true ''[[Metroid]]'' game in 3D rather than some wonky FPS like the ''[[Metroid Prime]]'' series, and a fun throwback to the old classics like ''Metroid II'' and ''Super Metroid''.
** An average game with fun but flawed gameplay and a lackluster story, which had a lot of potential but didn't live up to the higher points of the series like ''Super Metroid'' or ''[[Metroid Prime]]''.
** Easily the worst game in the series, being overly linear with nonsensical additions added to the classic formula, horrible voice acting, and an insulting and [[Real Women Never Wear Dresses|sexist]] plot completely at odds with the rest of [[The Verse]].
* ''[[Metroid Prime]] 2: Echoes'' was either a great if [[Sequel Difficulty Spike|hard]] sequel providing more of the beautiful scenery and fun gameplay, or a glorified [[Mission Pack Sequel]] filled with [[Fake Difficulty]].
* ''[[
** Some fans consider it one of the best games in the series thanks to the [[Scenery Porn]] and better graphics; others felt it was too much of a [[
** This was not helped by how some innovations the last set of games brought were stripped out, such as trading pokemon between games, morning/day/night, and being able to visit the previous games region. There were obvious technical reasons for this, but it does make the game feel like a smaller and shorter experience compared to Gold & Silver.
** At least HeartGold and SoulSilver can give those players the chance to relive all those memories again, but this time, in a much more polished fashion. Except of course, they still want to whine about the physical/special attack split.
** Black and White received some flak because the developers of the game wanted to make the games more or less a "fresh start" for the series. This means that there is no access to the previous generation Pokemon (except by trading) until you've beaten the game. Needless to say with parts of the Pokemon fandom an [[Unpleasable Fanbase]], some complained the game is very shoddy and that the newest generation wasted plenty of spots on unneeded [[Expies]]. Of course, others feel this is one of the best games in the series because of the freshness it presents.
* In ''[[The Sims 2]]'' fan circles, ''[[The Sims 3]]'' is jokingly referred to as "[[The Dark Side]]." While the game has its fair share of fans, many Sims 2 players [[Complaining About Games You Don't Play|write it off completely.]] Reasons vary from being too attached to their Sims 2 projects to not liking the way Sims 3 sims look.
* While ''[[
* ''[[
* ''[[
* [[Dynasty Warriors]] 6. While most fans will say it sucks, there are a significant number who actually enjoyed the game. Almost everyone agrees that the others are better, though.
* Pretty much all games in the Wario platforming series after ''[[Wario Land]] 4'', due to the fact each has entirely different gameplay mechanics and game design. Do you prefer ''[[Wario World]]'' the 3D beat em up/platformer, ''[[Wario Master of Disguise]]'' or ''[[Wario Land]] Shake It''? Because the fanbase is pretty divided on which was the best direction for the series, and there are even a few who hate all three games as well.
* The ''[[Super Mario Bros.|Mario]]'' series doesn't have this problem as bad as most long running series, but ''[[Super Mario Sunshine]]'', with its very different direction from ''[[Super Mario 64]]'', is certainly one of the most divisive titles in the series.
** ''[[Super Mario Galaxy 2]]''. Was it better than the first, or didn't live up to the excellence of the first?
** ''[[Paper Mario:
* ''[[Duke Nukem Forever]]'' is considered this for several factors, such as not living up to the previous game, playing like the old game it was based on, [[Follow the Leader]], and several controversial issues [[Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment|that we don't need to go into here.]]
* ''[[Rayman]]
* While many fans of the ''[[Heroes of Might and Magic]]'' series despise the fourth installment due to turning the heroes into regular units (and allowing you to have your entire army composed of 7 uber-powerful heroes) and other gameplay changes, as well as (literally) destroying the old world developed in the first three games as well as ''Heroes Chronicles''. Others actually enjoy finally taking their heroes into the thick of battle and like exploring the new world. Then comes the fifth game, developed by a completely different company (in Russia), creates ''yet another'' world, this time completely unrelated to the rest of the franchise, changes the game mechanics (the heroes are once again merely generals, but still get their turn, during which they can attack or cast), and adds 3D graphics. But wait, there's more. The sixth game is made by a ''third'' developer. The fans are probably confused by this point.
* By the same token, ''[[Disciples]] III'' features a significant departure from the previous two games in terms of graphics, storyline, battle mechanics (units can now move ''Heroes''-style), changes in types of leaders, resource management, etc. Once again, the fan base is split.
* ''[[Imperium Galactica]] II'' upgrades the series to 3D graphics. However, battle mechanics have changed as well and, in most fans' opinion, were dumbed down. [[Space Fighters]] can no longer be directly controlled. Instead, the player can adjust the Attack-Defend behavior scale. However, fighters are also almost useless in this installment. The first game focused the fleet on the flagships, a special class of powerful ships that were the only ones who could carry invasion forces. The sequel removes the flagships and instead allows each capital ship to carry a certain number of tanks.
* Oh dear lord, ''[[Diablo III]]''...[[Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment|No more needs to be mentioned beyond the title.]]
* ''[[Homeworld]]:'' Both the sequels released to date have been quite polarising within the fandom. ''[[Mission Pack Sequel|Cataclysm]]'' (later re-released as ''Emergence'') replaced the original game's [[Arbitrary Headcount Limit]] with a "[[Construct Additional Pylons|Support Unit]]" mechanic and significantly nerfed the player's ability to capture enemy ships, and took the storyline in [[Cosmic Horror|a very different direction]]. ''Homeworld 2'' almost completely ignored ''Cata''{{'}}s plot and stuck to the original's [[Space Opera]] roots, but went through a long and troubled development process that led to a lot of content being cut or scaled back and some noticeable issues with game balance, and had a storyline that introduced some controversial retcons and was widely seen as being a lot weaker than the original.
* ''[[Batman: Arkham Origins]]'' is a contested prequel, either hated for being [[Obvious Beta|buggy]] and [[It's the Same, Now It Sucks|very similar]] to ''[[Batman: Arkham City|Arkham City]]'' or liked for not ditching the great gameplay while telling a good story. The actual sequel ''[[Batman: Arkham Knight]]'' was also hit by it, given those impressed by the [[Sequel Escalation]] are equally countered by those who complained about the level design and having to spend too much time dealing with the clunky Batmobile controls.
== Western Animation ==
* ''[[Ben 10
** ''[[Ben 10
* ''[[Batman:
* ''[[
* ''[[Batman
** People started saying the same things about [[
** The series finale of ''Brave and the Bold'' [[Take That, Audience!|took a swipe at the fandom]] over this trend. [[This Loser Is You|Batmite]] goes through lengthy attempts to get Brave and the Bold cancelled because he wants a more serious series like B:TAS. When he succeeded, the show ends up getting replaced with a CGI ''Batgirl'' series. [[Hypocritical Humor|Batmite immediately starts complaining about preferring Brave and the Bold,]] especially when he realizes he's not going to be able to [[Shoo Out the Clowns|show up in a]] [[Darker and Edgier]] series.
* Some will argue that ''[[An American Tail]]: Fievel Goes West'' is better than the first movie because it's [[Lighter and Softer|not as depressing]] and it spends more time developing secondary characters, plus, you know, it has [[
* ''[[All Dogs Go to Heaven|All Dogs Go to Heaven 2]]''. While most fans of the first movie consider the second to be totally inferior because they say that it mostly lacks everything from the original, some say that it's a superior followup to the original because it's [[Lighter and Softer|not depressing]] and it has a good story with catchy songs.
* Season 2 of [[My Little Pony
** Though a lot of the complaints seem to have subsided now that most of the season is out.
* ''[[
* ''The Rescuers Down Under'', a sequel to ''[[The Rescuers (Disney film)|The Rescuers]]'', has often been claimed by others to be better than the first film for [[Animation Bump|more fluid animation]], [[Scenery Porn|beautiful shots of the Australian Outback]], and Cody, a child less annoying than [[Cousin Oliver|Penny]].
* Season three of the ''[[Total Drama Island
* Pretty much any Transformers series is compared negatively to [[Transformers Generation
** ''[[Beast Wars]]'' is nigh-universally considered one of the best, if not ''the'' best, Transformers series ever made. It's sequel, ''[[Beast Machines]]''... Not so much. Even then, BM has some fans who claim that, while it's not as good as BW, it's still a good series.
** ''[[Transformers Prime]]'' was initially loathed by fans of ''[[Transformers Animated]]'' for being a [[Replacement Scrappy]]. While a lot of fans of TFA enjoy Prime to some extent, there's still a divide in fans who consider Prime an unworthy successor or a [[Surprisingly Improved Sequel]] to TFA. It mostly comes down to whether you like the [[Darker and Edgier]] tone of Prime (which has often been described as being the live-action films if they got rid of the [[Toilet Humor]] and put more focus on the robots) or the [[Rule of Fun]] and [[Rule of Cool]] that Animated contains.
{{reflist}}
[[Category:Internet Backdraft]]
[[Category:Audience Reactions]]
[[Category:Sequel]]
▲[[Category:Trope]]
|