Die for Our Ship/Comic Books: Difference between revisions
Correcting a section that had a justifying edit link. Fixing the fan dumb link, dubious as to whether it belongs here in the first place, but I don't have enough certainty to make that call. Other minor fixes as well.
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(Correcting a section that had a justifying edit link. Fixing the fan dumb link, dubious as to whether it belongs here in the first place, but I don't have enough certainty to make that call. Other minor fixes as well.) |
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[[File:MarvelZombies_Spider-Man_wedding_suydam_4836.jpg|link=Marvel Zombies|frame|[[Joe Quesada|Quesada]] [[Running the Asylum|goes]] [[One More Day|"meta."]]]]
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* The [[Love Triangle]] [[Heroes Want Redheads|Jean Grey]]/[[The Stoic|Cyclops]]/[[Anti-Sue|Wolverine]] from ''[[X-Men (Comic Book)|X-Men]]'' has long been a complicated storm of controversy. Many fans have shipped Wolverine/Jean Grey since the day Wolverine joined the X-Men, but Marvel has long refused to give into fan demands. So fans engage in Scott ''and'' Jean bashing. Marvel has also changed Cyclops (first
** In typical [[Mark Millar]] fashion, ''[[Ultimate X-Men]]'' had the "cool guy" Wolverine not only take Jean Grey's virginity, but also [[Murder the Hypotenuse|STAB the nerdy, put-upon "loser" Ultimate Cyclops and leave him to die]] to ensure that Jean would be his and his alone. And the [[Fan Dumb|fandom]] ''rejoiced''!
*** Their rejoicing was hilariously cut short when Cyclops turned out to be [[Not Quite Dead]], staged a return, and angrily optic-blasted Wolverine off the team. And when Jean found out about Wolverine's [[Murder the Hypotenuse]] plan, she threatened Wolverine with all sorts of [[Mind Rape]] if she ever caught him having even ''one'' romantic or sexual thought towards her.
** Then there were the Pete vs. Piotr [[Flame War
*** On the opposing side, there's [[Joss Whedon]], who retconned Kitty back into a virgin just so Piotr could be the one to take it from her. Thanks to this, the Piotr/Kitty shippers who even acknowledge that Pete Wisdom exists at all ''love'' pointing out that "he didn't count".
** And that's not even counting all the ''canon'' [[Die for Our Ship]] examples for ''X-Men'' (and ''many'' other comic book series too) coming from those [[Running the Asylum]]. Just go to [[Derailing Love Interests]] to read them in all their tawdry glory.
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* Any female that "gets in the way of" Batman family [[Ho Yay]] is almost guaranteed a vilifying in fandom. Catwoman is exempted because of the [[Grandfather Clause]] and her already being a villain; no one else is safe. Similarly, Lois is often conveniently ignored as if she didn't exist when there's Batman/Superman [[Ho Yay]] to be had.
** The exception to this rule is Stephanie Brown (aka {{spoiler|Robin IV}}), formerly Tim Drake's (Robin III) canonical love interest. While most of Tim's love interests gets deliberately ignored by [[Ho Yay]] shippers, they generally love Steph and her history with Tim.
*** That's an outgrowth of the writers doing something right with Steph -- giving her extensive character development and a compelling personal storyline ''before'' making her a love interest. As is, she is treated like an interesting and entertaining character who just happens to be dating another character, as opposed to being treated like someone created solely for shipping purposes. (Witness Steph's fanlove only staying steady, or even increasing, even after her and Tim broke up.)
** There have been many fights about who Dick Grayson should be with; Tamarean Princess Koriand'r/Kory/Starfire or 'Batgirl/Oracle' Barbara Gordon. Even the writers got into that one: see the [[Teen Titans (Comic Book)|Teen Titans]] example for details on it.
** It's been said that you just don't get between [[Wonder Woman]] shippers and Catwoman shippers when they're fighting over Batman. Sorry, but you just don't, if you value life and limb.
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** There are fans who want MJ to die so that Peter can get with someone else. Anyone else. It doesn't matter who, just as long as it isn't MJ, whom some fans consider the Achilles heel who is dragging the series down even though she is a popular and well known character who is closely associated with Spider-Man's world and is often seen as "Spidey's girl." One can only wonder how they reacted to the ''[[One More Day]]'' reset...
*** Gwen Stacy fans have been bashing MJ since Gwenny hit the bucket. No surprise, considering that fans only seem to remeber Gwen as a Purity Sue, perfect Virgin [[Girl Next Door]] type. Which becomes jarring, when they say things like 'Gwen would never sleep around and have two children like they retconned to happen (Despite Gwen originally being portrayed as the Village Bicycle), and when they accuse MJ of being a 'personality-less wimp/dumbass who just leaves him at the drop of a hat'. This is despite MJ being originally [[Fun Personified]], a borderline [[Action Girl]], able to outsmart and defeat villains of human level and once defeated a villain Spidey had trouble fighting. And then, there's those who actually blame MJ for ''[[One More Day]]'' and seem to think that she ''divorced Peter because she couldn't handle his life as Spider-Man''. However, this seems to be from film fans who only heard a little about OMD and never bothered to read up on it. Then, there's the Felicia/Spidey fans and their opinions on MJ...
*** And then there are those fans also seem to clamor for Gwen to be brought back, because of how "interesting" it can be. It seems to be no coincidence that these same fans also despise Peter being with MJ, and who would stop following the title if the pair ever get back together (they are currently broken up, but clearly headed towards a reconciliation), and have no real interest in who Gwen was as a character. They just seem to want the only other significant love interest back that could legitimately challenge MJ's standing as "one true love" and Gwen is really the only fit.
*** The MJ Haters are an interesting variant of Fan Dumb, resulting in a mixture of revisionist history and willful ignorance. They insist that Peter and MJ's relationship is over and done with, and that she is now and forever just Peter's "friend," despite being in that same position in the past, reconciling with Peter on three separate occasions, including one instance of coming back from the dead to renew her relationship with the main protagonist. They insist that the new movie featuring Gwen Stacey as a love interest will cause people to see her as Peter's true love, seemingly oblivious to the three major blockbuster films with MJ as the love interest that generated it's own fanbase that more than likely regards MJ as Spidey's main girl. They seemed to pin their hopes on Carlie Cooper with a "You never know what the future might bring" attitude, but since her relationship with Spidey has ended rather messily and he's now getting closer to MJ the attitude now seems to have shifted to wanting to see Gwen Stacey come back from the dead because she's so "interesting." Basically, no one knows what will happen in the future. Except for Peter getting back together with MJ, because that thing is apparently never going to happen.
** Yet, what's worse is that, MJ/Peter fans are often accused/blamed for the death of Gwen. Apparently, because he later ended up with MJ and the above rumour about Conway, means that Mary Jane's existence is why Gwen died, and that anyone who likes MJ is responsible for and supports the death of Gwen.
** And while there's a lot of debate as to who was the actual [[Fan Proffered Couple]] at the time, but there seems to be a lot of mud slinging from the [[Nostalgia Filter|older generation]], who seem to proffer Gwen to MJ. As seen as many of the editors and writers grew up at the time of the days with Gwen and MJ, this has lead to MJ and Peter being broken up a few times in usually unsympathetic light for MJ, leading to lots of [[Dork Age]] type moments. Then, ''other'' MJ haters cite the fact that Peter and MJ are always breaking up as reason to ''why they shouldn't be together''. Two people shouldn't be together because they keep getting broken up by the people who don't think they should be together, I can't describe the logic failure there.
*** The older generation that shipped Gwen and Peter seemed less about how they "deserved" to be together, and more about how they DIDN'T like the idea of Peter getting married, least of all to MJ. Many argued that Gwen was clearly Peter's "One True Love." However, Gwen was dead for at least a decade by this point and Peter had dated several women by that point. It seems the argument against the marriage was that Peter had feelings for someone ELSE before, who was currently dead. As if loving someone else means that one can NEVER fall in love with anyone else ever again. In the end, it just seems like hiding behind the legacy of one character since there is really no good reason to criticize a popular pairing other than "I don't like the idea."
* [[Green Arrow]] is often vilified by Dinah/Babs shippers because of his and Dinah's relationship. They even bashed him when he was dead, but nowhere near as much as they've done since he was resurrected. It's just gotten worse since he and Dinah tied the knot, with Ollie's writers apparently liking to help the shippers with that. This may be why the other male in the picture, Dick Grayson of Robin fame, gets almost no abuse.
** Now that Green Arrow's relationship with Chloe Sullivan has become arguably the most popular ship in [[Smallville]] fandom (or at least, the ship that gets bashed the ''least''), many comic fans who happen to also be Smallville fans are hoping that Ollie and Chloe will get together in the comics now that Chloe's been officially introduced into the DC Canon. The Ollie/Dinah shippers will then shriek that the Ollie/Chloe shippers are "n00bs" and "not true comic fans" because they watched Smallville and that this apparently means that the Ollie/Chloe shippers are somehow not allowed to have any opinions on comic characters.
* Believe it or not, [[The Joker]] gets this a lot from the Ivy/Harley shippers
** Conversely, if you ship Harley with anyone else, be prepared to duck. There are some [[Vocal Minority|fringe extremist]] Harley/Joker fangirls who will attack you and whatever character you ship her with - violently. This would probably embarrass most Harley/Joker shippers.
** Harley gets a lot of this from people who want to see the Joker with [[Foe Yay|Batman]] or (among people who mostly watch the movies) [[Mad Scientist|Scarecrow.]] This is goofy because Harley and Joker have broken up in the comics and are now both free to be shipped with anyone.
** And now the Harley x Scarecrow shippers have started in on the Joker, as evidenced in [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lmxW4Txw90&feature=related multiple] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qguso-AsF04 fan videos] for the pair on
* ''[[Ultimate Spider-Man]]'' has relatively little of this despite the [[Love Triangle|love quadrangle]] around Spider-Man, since the fans are fond of both the love quadrangle and its participants. There is, however, a small vocal band of Mary Jane haters who usually ship Peter/Kitty; they were most active during a short period following the Clone saga. The addition of Jessica Drew, [[Fetish Fuel|Peter's genetically engineered female clone]], has led to a lot of [[Slash Fic|opportunities for alternate pairings]] for girls not currently involved with Peter.
* [[Teen Titans (Comic Book)|The comic version of Teen Titans]] has as much of this trope as the animated version. One case? Beast Boy and Raven. When Geoff Johns made the two an [[Official Couple]], there was mass rage from not only Beast Boy or Raven fans that didn't want them paired up, but also Beast Boy/[[The Mole|Terra]] fans, Beast Boy/Terra II fans, Jericho/Raven fans, [[Ho Yay|Beast Boy/Cyborg]] fans, Nightwing/Raven fans...basically, fans of any pairing other than the two together. Much hate was directed at Beast Boy from the fans who were more sympathetic to Raven and invoking this trope, while fans more sympathetic to Beast Boy began calling Raven an evil slut and scrambled to show proof that she would be an abusive and cruel girlfriend to him, as well as stating that he would surely become weak and turn evil because of her. For some of those on Raven's side, kissing the 'green puke' has ruined her forever.
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** Also applying to this series: Nightwing/Starfire is often bashed by fans who pair him with Oracle and who feel that a Batman character does not belong with an alien or anything more supernatural than what is normally seen in Gotham. Devin Grayson was notably opposed to the pairing and did what she could to [[Ship Sinking|discourage and sink it in her Titans run]], going as far as to [[Derailing Love Interests|portray Starfire as a shrill, embittered harpy who would fling starbolts at Nightwing if he (easily) offended her]]. Let's just say that, if you value your sanity, do NOT instigate a [[Internet Backdraft|discussion of if Oracle or Starfire would be the better girlfriend for him.]]
* [[Derailing Love Interests|This is actually]] ''[[Derailing Love Interests|canon]]'' for Lois Lane in many Elseworlds, where the writers are constantly offing her so that Supes can hook up with [[Wonder Woman]]. This has been so jaw-droppingly overused and cliche, and the Supes/Wondy romances have traditionally been so appallingly badly developed ([[Sturgeon's Law]] dictates that most Elseworlds be pretentious original stories with superheroes' names shoehorned into the plot), that it has given rise to all sorts of massive [[Unfortunate Implications]], from the general feeling that Diana spends her life stalking Supes while waiting for Lois to kick the bucket, to the unsubtle Aesop that superheroes are vastly superior to us [[Puny Humans]], and should not defile themselves by marrying one of our mortal female lumps of flesh.
** And now its ''mainline'' canon, as the nu52 DC reboot has removed the Lois/Clark pairing from ever having existed at all.
*** And the recent 'DC Rebirth' re-reboot just reversed that change to put Lois back in the picture. Apparently the other thing wasn't catching on with the fans.
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