Dragon Age II/WMG: Difference between revisions

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******* It's worth noting that at one point in the game, the PC can question Anders about a similar situation. He says that he ''would'' kill a lot of innocent people to see justice served, but admits that those people would then deserve justice themselves.

******** Yeah, eventually. Not before the mages' situation is settled.

**** There's also the possibility that Anders and Hawke ran off together at the end of [[Dragon Age II]]. If Sebastian wants vengeance, there's a damn good chance he's going to have to go through [[One Man Army|Hawke]] first. Good luck with that...

**** There's also the possibility that Anders and Hawke ran off together at the end of [[Dragon Age II]]. If Sebastian wants vengeance, there's a damn good chance he's going to have to go through [[One-Man Army|Hawke]] first. Good luck with that...

** Sebastian's kinda pathetic. He never gets anything important done without Hawke's help. Not to mention that even if he could track down Anders I rather suspect that Anders would hand him his arse on a plate. On a side note, it seems unlikely that Sebastian will actually be able to raise the promised army. He hasn't actually created any power base in Starkhaven at all.

*** Nah. Sebastian's badass enough that a fight between him and Anders wouldn't be that one-sided. But more importantly, it's made clear that the reason he hasn't gotten a power base in Starkhaven is because a) he was conflicted between Starkhaven and the Chantry, and b) if you convince him to reclaim his throne, he decides to put it on hold until the mage/templar conflict in Kirkwall is dealt with, since he (correctly) figures that's going to be a bigger problem. And given the events of the ending, I wouldn't be too surprised if he is running Starkhaven by the next time we see him, since he now has nothing to distract him.

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* I'd buy it.

* I'd buy it ''twice'', that's how awesome that sounds. (Except for <s>dragons</s> Archdemons riding griffins, which sounds [[Accidental Innuendo|awkward]].)

* Just to further bump up the [[Holy Shit Quotient|awesomeness of this WMG]], Varric is telling the story to an increasingly awestruck, [[Eyes of Gold|yellow eyed]], [[Eerie Pale Skinned Brunette|raven haired]] 10 year old boy, whereupon Varric being finished the boy has to run off to his mother, {{spoiler|[[The Reveal|Morrigan]]}}, who scolds him for listening to such foolish stories, {{spoiler|considering they've probably been brought up with the reality of the situation, making this a chance for the child [[Crowning Moment of Heartwarming|to connect with normal youth]], such as outlandish [[Folk Hero]] stories, [[Tear Jerker|albeit momentarily]] as they have to come to terms with...whatever it is that they have to do, as well as to keep the [[Sequel Hook]] of the OGS and Morrigan alive and connected with the two games}}.

* Just to further bump up the [[Holy Shit Quotient|awesomeness of this WMG]], Varric is telling the story to an increasingly awestruck, [[Eyes of Gold|yellow eyed]], [[Eerie Pale-Skinned Brunette|raven haired]] 10 year old boy, whereupon Varric being finished the boy has to run off to his mother, {{spoiler|[[The Reveal|Morrigan]]}}, who scolds him for listening to such foolish stories, {{spoiler|considering they've probably been brought up with the reality of the situation, making this a chance for the child [[Crowning Moment of Heartwarming|to connect with normal youth]], such as outlandish [[Folk Hero]] stories, [[Tear Jerker|albeit momentarily]] as they have to come to terms with...whatever it is that they have to do, as well as to keep the [[Sequel Hook]] of the OGS and Morrigan alive and connected with the two games}}.

* Does it have to be a DLC? I'd rather it be a full 40-hour game. Also, throw in some Qunari somewhere. Maybe that female Qunari love interest people were clamoring for during development.

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Yes, just like [[Final Fantasy]] VII. It's the physical manifestation of the soul of the planet that Thedas is on and is the "Maker" that Andrastre charmed with her singing: the lyrium veins in II look very much like actual blood veins for a visual connection. The Fade is the mind/spirit of the planet with the Golden City housing its brain equivalent. The tainting of the City caused the Planet to go into shock and before it slipped into a coma it used its prophet to start a religion to unite its Children against the Darkspawn, which are symbolic of the damage inflicted by the Magisters and a "symptom" of the true disease. The final game in the series will be an incursion into the Black City to cure the Maker/Planet and eradicate the Darkspawn Taint forever.

* Note that at least one codex entry mentions that the dwarves believe lyrium is alive. Which would mean using lyrium is just a slightly different kind of blood magic...

** Those codex entries inspired the idea and IIRC the dwarves claimed the Stone told them how to collapse tunnels to stop a Darkspawn incursion. The Maker and the Stone may just be different names for the same thing. The Elves' Gods may be manifestations of the Planet like the Weapons. And, strange to even think it, Flemeth could be an expy of Sephiroth (long white hair, [[One Winged Angel|changes forms...]]) depending on what her final goal is if it involves destroying Thedas.

** Those codex entries inspired the idea and IIRC the dwarves claimed the Stone told them how to collapse tunnels to stop a Darkspawn incursion. The Maker and the Stone may just be different names for the same thing. The Elves' Gods may be manifestations of the Planet like the Weapons. And, strange to even think it, Flemeth could be an expy of Sephiroth (long white hair, [[One-Winged Angel|changes forms...]]) depending on what her final goal is if it involves destroying Thedas.

* Heck, the Darkspawn Taint itself could be an alien Virus that infects entire worlds, not unlike Jenova. The Tevinter mages weren't responsible for the Taint, they just the bad luck of being in the Golden City at the same time it was infected by the Taint, and they brought it back with them as the first Darkspawn.

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== Miscellaneous guesses on what party members will be doing in later installments. ==

* If spared, {{spoiler|Anders}} will appear in DA 3 again. Either he crosses the [[Moral Event Horizon]] by doing something very cruel, ( {{spoiler|perhaps killing orphans of the Chantry who could become future templars}}) or he has a [[My God What Have I Done]] moment after seeing all the chaos he caused.

* If spared, {{spoiler|Anders}} will appear in DA 3 again. Either he crosses the [[Moral Event Horizon]] by doing something very cruel, ( {{spoiler|perhaps killing orphans of the Chantry who could become future templars}}) or he has a [[My God, What Have I Done?]] moment after seeing all the chaos he caused.

** I posit that this may change based on his interaction with Hawke. If a Rival, or not sufficiently friendly, he's going to be more antagonistic, but if a Friend, especially if a LI, he'll be seeking to do good to pay back for the wrong things he did.

** He was showing signs of [[The Atoner]] even before he did that.

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** Bethany/Carver could have two stories: a story set in the Gallows with either Carver as a Templar or Bethany as a Circle Mage trying to figure out why mages keep disappearing and a Grey Warden story that works for both of them. Alistair (if a Grey Warden) could make a special appearance and maybe some of the Wardens from Awakening for the fans.

*** Maybe Loghain too, seeing as he's apparently still knocking about by Act 3.

** Aveline dealing with a mysterious crime wave affecting Kirkwall, helped by her husband Donnic and Guardsman Brennan. Complete with a [[~~Firstperson~~ Smartass]] monologue by Aveline in the style of a noir film.

** Aveline dealing with a mysterious crime wave affecting Kirkwall, helped by her husband Donnic and Guardsman Brennan. Complete with a [[First-Person Smartass]] monologue by Aveline in the style of a noir film.

** Varric telling the true story of his meeting Bianca and showing his reliance on a crappy crossbow before meeting the love of his life. In ''Legacy'' {{spoiler|we meet Bianca's inventor Gerav so he could be a party member}} and Dougal Gavorn from the "Friends In Low Places" quest also worked with Varric in the past.

** Anders on the run from the Grey Wardens and his struggles with Vengeance in his mind. Alternately, his last mission with the Grey Wardens and what convinces to begin his crusade for mage liberation. Nathaniel already has a character model in the game and it's another chance to use the other ''Awakening'' Wardens. A major [[Tear Jerker]] could be giving away Ser Pounce-A-Lot at one point of the story.

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* Carver: A ring with "I'm #2" [[Incredibly Lame Pun|carved]] into it.

* Aveline: A large sign that says "Don't" on it that becomes a sword for her. As per Varric's suggestion.

* Varric: A red doll that glows in the dark and has a sarcastic pull-string with creepy sayings and sings. Really, to see ''Varric'' give a [[Dude Not Funny]] would be hilarious.

* Varric: A red doll that glows in the dark and has a sarcastic pull-string with creepy sayings and sings. Really, to see ''Varric'' give a [[Dude, Not Funny]] would be hilarious.

* Merril: A Tevinter staff called [[Incredibly Lame Pun|Elfroute]].

* Fenris: A tiny violin.

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In Ander's [http://na.llnet.bioware.cdn.ea.com/u/f/eagames/bioware/dragonage2/assets/content/world/short_stories/anders.pdf short story], there is a Grey Warden named Rolan who was a former templar (a fully fledged templar, unlike Alistair). He's shown to give Anders a hard time, so it wouldn't surprise me if he was the one who pushed to have Anders get rid of his precious kitty.

* Way to go, Rolan.

* I'd say [[Nice Job Breaking It Hero]], but 'hero' doesn't really suit Rolan. Nice job breaking it [[Jerkass]]?

* I'd say [[Nice Job Breaking It, Hero]], but 'hero' doesn't really suit Rolan. Nice job breaking it [[Jerkass]]?

== The [[Jade Empire]] exists on a continent to the east of Thedas beyond the 'Glass Sea' ==

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== Meredith isn't dead. ==

Instead, her attempt to go [[One Winged Angel]] (at least, I think that's what she was trying to do) put her in an [[And I Must Scream]] situation. Of course, this means that a particularly skilled Mage (or just someone who knew what they were doing) could likely restore her mind, turning her into a stone-skinned, magic-resistant killing machine. Prime boss fight material.

Instead, her attempt to go [[One-Winged Angel]] (at least, I think that's what she was trying to do) put her in an [[And I Must Scream]] situation. Of course, this means that a particularly skilled Mage (or just someone who knew what they were doing) could likely restore her mind, turning her into a stone-skinned, magic-resistant killing machine. Prime boss fight material.

** Or she could be left out as a poorly kept statue in the Gallows for years with sadistic mages throwing out birdseed around her. When she is eventually freed her hatred of mages will only be intensified and coupled with a newfound hatred of pigeons.

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** I'd see nationalistic sentiments forcing the Wardens to retreat from a lot of areas they were once allowed in. For example, I could see Ferelden backpedaling on their Warden love, as the war leads to an uptick of Fereldan nationalism. That means anything, ''anything'' that does not answer directly to Denerim is the enemy. The Grey Wardens, the Chantry, the Templars, they are all enemies because they are either from the Anderfels or Orlais. The mages see this as an opportunity to establish themselves in Ferelden, so I could see a number of different mage factions each vying for royal influence: a light-grey Collective, the dark grey Libertarians, the black Resolutionists, and the blacker-than-black Tevinters. As for the Chantry, I could see them suffering a second schism in Ferelden. And the pirates and mercenaries will find a reason to fight. Basically, no side, not even Tevinter or the Qunari will be united. It will be [[Civil Warcraft]] to the nth power.

** Also, Ferelden will prove to Orlais that they most certainly have taken a few levels in badass since the Fifth Blight, contrary to how Alistair describes the Orlesian view of Ferelden military readiness. In fact, [[DA 3]] might be about the steady destruction of the Orlesian Empire. Think about it. Codex entries say that Nevarra wants Orlesian lands, the Chantry is falling to pieces and based out of Orlais, Ferelden and Orlais are rivals, Tevinter and Orlais are enemies. The last known settlement of the Dalish (Halamshiral) is on Orlesian territory. Everyone has a vested interest in taking Orlais down.

** Riordan mentions that many in the Anderfels see the Wardens as stronger and more fit to rule than the local king and some Wardens agree with them. If the Templars did make a move for power while trying to bring the Wardens to heel, it might result in the Wardens themselves making a bid for power, which would cause all sorts of problems. There might even be a bit of [[Nice Job Breaking It Hero]] as the power-hungry Wardens use the Hero of Ferelden's intervention in political matters as a precedent for justifying abandoning the non-interference policy the Wardens have used for centuries. And speaking of Ferelden, if Alistair is king then there is no way he will allow the Wardens to be seen as the enemy. He has first-hand experience with the results of that kind of thinking. In fact, depending on the outcome of Awakening, the Wardens might view Ferelden as a viable place to relocate their HQ in the event Weisshaupt does get overrun by Templars, since the people of Amaranthine look to the Wardens for leadership and protection.

** Riordan mentions that many in the Anderfels see the Wardens as stronger and more fit to rule than the local king and some Wardens agree with them. If the Templars did make a move for power while trying to bring the Wardens to heel, it might result in the Wardens themselves making a bid for power, which would cause all sorts of problems. There might even be a bit of [[Nice Job Breaking It, Hero]] as the power-hungry Wardens use the Hero of Ferelden's intervention in political matters as a precedent for justifying abandoning the non-interference policy the Wardens have used for centuries. And speaking of Ferelden, if Alistair is king then there is no way he will allow the Wardens to be seen as the enemy. He has first-hand experience with the results of that kind of thinking. In fact, depending on the outcome of Awakening, the Wardens might view Ferelden as a viable place to relocate their HQ in the event Weisshaupt does get overrun by Templars, since the people of Amaranthine look to the Wardens for leadership and protection.

*** The King does not have a monopoly on public opinion and how things are viewed. If that were the case, he would have much less difficulty trying to improve the lot of the elves.

*** Most of the endings of Awakening have at least some nobles skittish of foreign influences such as the Wardens. Also, Alistair, as king, is either an uninvolved figurehead who spends most of his time with his people, or a hardened talented ruler. In the former case, ministers and advisers would do the real ruling in his stead. In both scenarios, Alistair - whose throne is guaranteed only by placating the Bannorn - will have to sacrifice the Wardens' agenda for political stability if the two interests come in conflict. Those lords won't like Wardens - ''especially'' Orlesians - encroaching on their territory. I can see Wardens trying to exploit the Right of Conscription to destabilize areas where they lack support, for instance. I can also see Alistair's shortened life and potential infertility becoming an issue, as nobles jockey for power or find a figurehead to rally around in anticipation of his death.

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== Vigilance contains the soul of an unborn dragon. ==

One of the ingridients in the construction of the sword is the egg of a dragon and part of what makes Vigilance the [[Infinity ~~Plus One~~ Sword]] is the power of the dragon's soul within it. The epilogue card for the sword states it seemingly has a will of its own. When it does show up again, it will be an [[Empathic Weapon]] that changes its stats depending on the wielder's stats and what character is wielding it. It may not be too happy [[Powered By a Forsaken Child|to have given its life to make the sword]], however, and at one point the player will have to decide to free its soul by destroying the sword or keeping it. If s/he keeps Vigilance the sword will slowly drain his/her health while she uses it and may change into an [[Unholy Holy Sword]] in later games; if the sword is destroyed the dragon's soul gratefully grants a permanent passive ability called, "Dragon's Blessing" that has multiple benefits such as protection from fire damage. The releasing of the soul will also be a [[Crowning Moment of Heartwarming]].

One of the ingridients in the construction of the sword is the egg of a dragon and part of what makes Vigilance the [[Infinity+1 Sword]] is the power of the dragon's soul within it. The epilogue card for the sword states it seemingly has a will of its own. When it does show up again, it will be an [[Empathic Weapon]] that changes its stats depending on the wielder's stats and what character is wielding it. It may not be too happy [[Powered By a Forsaken Child|to have given its life to make the sword]], however, and at one point the player will have to decide to free its soul by destroying the sword or keeping it. If s/he keeps Vigilance the sword will slowly drain his/her health while she uses it and may change into an [[Unholy Holy Sword]] in later games; if the sword is destroyed the dragon's soul gratefully grants a permanent passive ability called, "Dragon's Blessing" that has multiple benefits such as protection from fire damage. The releasing of the soul will also be a [[Crowning Moment of Heartwarming]].

== A cure for the Blight will eventually be found ==

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* The other thedosian nations, weakened by civil war will keep on fighting a [[Hopeless War|loosing war]] against the technologically superior Qunari.

* Ferelden may not be superpower material, but will be the last mage-friendly nation after the fall of Tevinter, and also have the only non-Qunari black powder.

* In desperation, the chantry will call Ferelden for help: their few advantages (mages, powder, proximity of Orzammar, [[Badass Adorable|lots of Mabari descended from Origin's dog]], [[One Man Army|The Warden]] -who will conveniently reappear at the nick of time-) will give Southern Thedas dwindling forces the second wind needed to turn the tides of war.

* In desperation, the chantry will call Ferelden for help: their few advantages (mages, powder, proximity of Orzammar, [[Badass Adorable|lots of Mabari descended from Origin's dog]], [[One-Man Army|The Warden]] -who will conveniently reappear at the nick of time-) will give Southern Thedas dwindling forces the second wind needed to turn the tides of war.

* Lots of events meant to make the players [[Moment of Awesome|pump their fists]], [[Heartwarming Moments|cheer]], [[Tear Jerker|cry]], [[Player Punch|curse the name "david Gaider"]] will happen

* By the end of those events, the power structure in Theda will be mirroring Europe at the end of the Renaissance:

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**** It was never a question of the First Warden not wanting to risk it; it's whether it's in the best interest of the non-Wardens to do this. A Blight only comes along so often (and when it does and we don't have someone like Loghain refusing to believe it because of his personal issues with Flemeth and the Orlesians then the Wardens would quickly be given power again like they always do) and the rest of the time the Wardens' history of horrible decisions and abuse of power make giving them more power a horrible idea.

*** The only notable abuse of power not directly related to stopping or preventing a Blight was Sophia Dryden's rebellion, which was pretty well justified considering how terrible a king was ruling at the time. I admit that the Wardens' policy of "anything to stop the Blight" is more than a bit worrying, but the sheer scale of the darkspawn threat does justify it. Outside of a Blight, everybody above ground seems to completely forget about the Darkspawn horde beneath their feet. All it takes is one bit of intelligence to turn the 'spawn into the most deadly force in the world. The previous Blights took decades to resolve, leaving innumerable casualties and wide swaths of land completely uninhabitable. All five of them were beaten by the narrowest of margins. There's still two (well, two-and-a-half) Old Gods waiting to be turned. Even if they were both killed, the darkspawn wouldn't just disappear. Maker knows what'll happen when they don't have the calling to distract them. If it Wardens had some actual political power, they might be able to get the resources to at least understand what the 'spawn are and how to beat them. If they had more proper channels to work through, maybe the Wardens wouldn't need to resort to dangerous, morally questionable measures so often. I have no doubt that abuses would occur (not every Warden Commander will be as nice or effective as you could make yours), but at least it'd get the people of Thedas out of their false sense of security and realize how much danger they face. The biggest risk would probably be potential backlash against the Wardens from either the Chantry or commoners.

*** Governing takes a lot more than sitting in a fortress training soldiers or running through the Deep Roads killing Darkspawn. Roads have to be maintained, farms have to produce grain, coffers have to be filled with gold, people have to be bread & circused and nobles have to have their egos stroked. Wardens are good at one thing and one thing only: killing darkspawn. Some of them are former prisoners, some of them are thieves, or mages, or common grunts, but none of them are consummate politicians by trade. Also, Ferelden is a rather insular country that looks suspiciously at foreigners as potential interlopers. Loghain is merely this attitude turned [[Up to Eleven]]. Having Wardens, who may be Free Marchers, Anders, or even Orlesians, come in to run an arling will simply not sit well with the nobility in the short term. Also, the First Warden likes to send in personnel from his personal circle, distrusting local men (Mistress Woolsey is one). All it takes is for that to turn into cronyism, and the entire arling becomes packed with toadies who answer to the first warden ahead of the King or the Landsmeet. Add in the possibility that the new WC could end up being a [[General Ripper]], and its a recipe for disaster. With the Mage-Templar war under way, times are going to be tough. It might be the case that the WC will have to choose between devoting resources to the arling or to the deep roads. Also, the Right of Conscription is ripe for abuse. A noble bothering you? Conscript him and send him to the Deep Roads. A guard captain too [[By ~~the~~ Book Cop|by the book]] for you? Conscript him and send him to the Deep Roads. A running theme in DA is that unchecked power can and will be abused.

*** Governing takes a lot more than sitting in a fortress training soldiers or running through the Deep Roads killing Darkspawn. Roads have to be maintained, farms have to produce grain, coffers have to be filled with gold, people have to be bread & circused and nobles have to have their egos stroked. Wardens are good at one thing and one thing only: killing darkspawn. Some of them are former prisoners, some of them are thieves, or mages, or common grunts, but none of them are consummate politicians by trade. Also, Ferelden is a rather insular country that looks suspiciously at foreigners as potential interlopers. Loghain is merely this attitude turned [[Up to Eleven]]. Having Wardens, who may be Free Marchers, Anders, or even Orlesians, come in to run an arling will simply not sit well with the nobility in the short term. Also, the First Warden likes to send in personnel from his personal circle, distrusting local men (Mistress Woolsey is one). All it takes is for that to turn into cronyism, and the entire arling becomes packed with toadies who answer to the first warden ahead of the King or the Landsmeet. Add in the possibility that the new WC could end up being a [[General Ripper]], and its a recipe for disaster. With the Mage-Templar war under way, times are going to be tough. It might be the case that the WC will have to choose between devoting resources to the arling or to the deep roads. Also, the Right of Conscription is ripe for abuse. A noble bothering you? Conscript him and send him to the Deep Roads. A guard captain too [[By-The-Book Cop|by the book]] for you? Conscript him and send him to the Deep Roads. A running theme in DA is that unchecked power can and will be abused.

== Larius was a thrall of Corypheus all along. ==

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Think about it: at the end of ''The Calling'' Fiona has been cured of the taint, proven herself a capable warden alongside Duncan, and been recalled to Weisshaupt Fortress, forcing her to leave her son (presumably Alistair) behind. With her taint cured, it is very likely she's still alive, and it's quite possible she's risen in the Grey Warden ranks since the events of ''The Calling''. I would not be surprised at all if she appeared later as the leader of the order, or at least a very high-ranking Warden. That would be the perfect time for the truth about Alistair's parentage to come out. True, the First Warden is referred to as 'he' in DA 2, but remember that the Grey Wardens are a very secretive order. The specific identity of their leader might be kept secret except among their commanders. I imagine that the First Warden turning out to be an elven mage might not go over well with some groups, especially the Chantry.

* More on the gender issue: she might just replace the current male First Warden at some point, since First Wardens are generally pretty close to their Calling, so they don't stay First for long.

* Jossed: She's {{spoiler|not a Grey Warden anymore and the Grand Enchanter of the Circle: basically the leader of Thedas mages}}, oh, and she [[Well Intentioned Extremist|harbor some sympathies for Anders' ways]]... yeah, Thedas [[Oh Crap|is toast]]

* Jossed: She's {{spoiler|not a Grey Warden anymore and the Grand Enchanter of the Circle: basically the leader of Thedas mages}}, oh, and she [[Well-Intentioned Extremist|harbor some sympathies for Anders' ways]]... yeah, Thedas [[Oh Crap|is toast]]

== "I'm not calling you a liar" is based on the entire party cast and Hawke family ==

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Finally, considering the fact that [[Unreliable Narrator|Varric]] [[Fridge Brilliance|did not like]] Sebastian, it's very possible that Sebastian {{spoiler|decided to come back to Hawke ([[Love Redeems|even more so if Hawke romanced him]] and sided with the Order) and decided to let Anders take his penance since it's what [[Crystal Dragon Jesus|Andr]][[The Messiah|aste]] would have done.}}

* Given how devoted he is to the Chantry and how {{spoiler|Anders's bomb}} was religious terrorism of the worse kind, it doesn't seem likely that he'd let Anders walk free no matter what his friendship is. On top of that, Elthina was a mother to him. Not only is his promise {{spoiler|to kill Anders}} backed by religious fury, [[~~Its~~ Personal|it's personal]]

* Given how devoted he is to the Chantry and how {{spoiler|Anders's bomb}} was religious terrorism of the worse kind, it doesn't seem likely that he'd let Anders walk free no matter what his friendship is. On top of that, Elthina was a mother to him. Not only is his promise {{spoiler|to kill Anders}} backed by religious fury, [[It's Personal|it's personal]]

** It's not unreasonable to assume that Sebastian might back off if you {{spoiler|get Anders to side with the Templars at the end}} where it is implied {{spoiler|he'll be made [[Fate Worse Than Death|tranquil]] afterwards.}}