Gods Need Prayer Badly: Difference between revisions

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Named for ''[[Gauntlet]]'''s "''[[An Adventurer Is You|<character>]] [[Wizard Needs Food Badly|needs food, badly!]]''" catchphrase.

== Anime & Manga ==

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== Literature ==

* The [[Dresden Files]] use this with a few unique ripples. Spiritual entities need some level of recognition to operate on Earth. Thus the various old gods (with a little 'g') have very little ability to act on their power. This is laid out in info concerning {{spoiler|the Venatori, who fight the Oblivion War, trying to get all memory of magical entities removed from the human psyche, and therefore cut their connection to the material world. Need-to-know basis doesn't even begin to describe it. But now ''you'' know, so now they have to kill you. [[Nice Job Breaking It Hero|Smooth.]]}}

* The [[Dresden Files]] use this with a few unique ripples. Spiritual entities need some level of recognition to operate on Earth. Thus the various old gods (with a little 'g') have very little ability to act on their power. This is laid out in info concerning {{spoiler|the Venatori, who fight the Oblivion War, trying to get all memory of magical entities removed from the human psyche, and therefore cut their connection to the material world. Need-to-know basis doesn't even begin to describe it. But now ''you'' know, so now they have to kill you. [[Nice Job Breaking It, Hero|Smooth.]]}}

** Also evidence suggests that this doesn't apply God (with a big 'G') and His assorted Archangels.

* In ''The Devil's Apocrypha'', in which [[Satan Is Good]] and [[God Is Evil]], God manipulated evolution on Earth to produce sentient humans in his image. He then advises us to commit brutal, violent acts in his name - the faith gives him nourishment. Satan and his followers, meanwhile, stand for free will and moral justice, and advise us not to mindlessly obey God and be reduced to his sheep.

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* ''[[American Gods (Literature)|American Gods]]'' uses this as a central plot point. There's some major [[Fridge Logic]] (or perhaps [[Fridge Brilliance]]) at one point given the slighting way one of them refers to Jesus. Given that deities are powered by belief, he (probably along with Vishnu) would likely be the most powerful god around at present.

** There's also the implication that each nation has localised versions of gods: the American Kali mentions that there is a much more powerful Indian Kali, the protagonist briefly meets an Icelandic Odin and a powerless Jesus in Afghanistan is mentioned.

** At first glance, [[Magic a Is Magic A|the rules of the system]] could arguably have made Jesus ''so'' powerful in modern America that the conflict throughout the story would be beneath him. It's not his problem and neither side in the conflict would want him involved. On the other hand, note that gods in this setting don't actually need prayer itself, just belief. In that case, Jesus might not be all that powerful in modern America; see the premise of ''[[Discworld (Literature)/Small Gods|Small Gods]]'' below.

** At first glance, [[Magic A Is Magic A|the rules of the system]] could arguably have made Jesus ''so'' powerful in modern America that the conflict throughout the story would be beneath him. It's not his problem and neither side in the conflict would want him involved. On the other hand, note that gods in this setting don't actually need prayer itself, just belief. In that case, Jesus might not be all that powerful in modern America; see the premise of ''[[Discworld (Literature)/Small Gods|Small Gods]]'' below.

* [[David Eddings]] uses it in the ''Elenium'' and ''Tamuli'' trilogies (the source of the page header quote). At one point, the goddess Aphrael becomes ill because her worshippers are being killed.

* [[Douglas Adams]]' ''[[The Long Dark Tea Time of the Soul]]'': Old gods who have fallen out of belief become powerless destitutes, while a new god is actually spawned as a critical mass of Guilt builds up through the book.

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* The short story anthology ''Gods of War'' (by Christopher Stasheff, et al) features this, but also indicates in addition to the Greek, Norse, and Japanese gods (among others) who fall into this trope, there is the 'one god' who is above the others and has no such concerns or limitations.

* This is how it works in Dave Duncan's ''Great Game'' trilogy. The balance of power in that world is being upset by one demigod who has discovered a much more efficient means of getting divine power from worship - human sacrifice - and threatens to overthrow the major gods.

* Played very straight in ''[[The Acts of Caine (Literature)|The Acts of Caine]]'', but with a [[Backstory|history]]. A long time ago, gods had whatever power they could draw from T'nalldion a.k.a. Home, the fundamental pattern/source of all magic on Overworld. Then this [[Badass Normal|lowly human]] named Jereth got involved in a religious war, kicked some ass, earned the title of [[Did You Just Punch Out Cthulhu|Godslaughterer]], and [[Heroic Sacrifice|died]] to establish the Covenant of Pirichanthe, which limits the power of all deities to what their believers provide. The exceptions are the [[Cosmic Horror|Outer Powers]] which feed on the suffering and fear of sentients, and the [[Humans Are Bastards|Blind God]], who is happily nigh-omnipotent on Earth despite the fact that his worshipers neither believe he exists nor care.

* Played very straight in ''[[The Acts of Caine (Literature)|The Acts of Caine]]'', but with a [[Backstory|history]]. A long time ago, gods had whatever power they could draw from T'nalldion a.k.a. Home, the fundamental pattern/source of all magic on Overworld. Then this [[Badass Normal|lowly human]] named Jereth got involved in a religious war, kicked some ass, earned the title of [[Did You Just Punch Out Cthulhu?|Godslaughterer]], and [[Heroic Sacrifice|died]] to establish the Covenant of Pirichanthe, which limits the power of all deities to what their believers provide. The exceptions are the [[Cosmic Horror|Outer Powers]] which feed on the suffering and fear of sentients, and the [[Humans Are Bastards|Blind God]], who is happily nigh-omnipotent on Earth despite the fact that his worshipers neither believe he exists nor care.

* Partly how gods are created in ''[[The God Eaters]]'', where a human born with magic is worshiped until (at least in the case of {{spoiler|Medur}}) they gain enough power to return after death. Eventually, however, they amass enough power that they don't need belief to keep going. Still doesn't mean they're indestructible, though.

* Several short stories by [[Lord Dunsany]] explore this trope, most literally ''Poseidon'', in which the eponymous deity complains that he can no longer cause earthquakes without the blood of bulls. Perhaps humans just got smarter over the years.

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* ''[[Alundra (Video Game)|Alundra]]'': The villagers of Inoa pray to Melzas, who is (unknown to said villagers) actually evil. Also Nirude, a giant god, lives off the prayer of midgets.

* ''[[The Elder Scrolls]]'': The more people worship a given deity, demigod, or what-have-you, the more powerful they become. Greater gods like the Nine Divines and Daedra Princes can survive without it, but will be seriously weakened until they get more followers. Lesser gods can be outright killed by lack of worship. The reason it's easier for greater gods is because they personify widely-known abstracts, so even if all their followers in one culture are purged, they have another culture to pick up the slack.

** Some EU and even in game dialogue hints/explicitly states that after the events of ''[[Morrowind]]'' the leader of the indigenous Tribunal religion, Vivec, disappears without a trace. And the large floating rock used as a religious prison and held aloft by "the love of the people for [Vivec]" smashes into Vvardenfel, causing massive destruction across the entire island. [[Nice Job Breaking It Hero|Did you forget that you're the one who revealed his religion as a sham?]]

** Some EU and even in game dialogue hints/explicitly states that after the events of ''[[Morrowind]]'' the leader of the indigenous Tribunal religion, Vivec, disappears without a trace. And the large floating rock used as a religious prison and held aloft by "the love of the people for [Vivec]" smashes into Vvardenfel, causing massive destruction across the entire island. [[Nice Job Breaking It, Hero|Did you forget that you're the one who revealed his religion as a sham?]]

** Becomes a plot point in ''[[Skyrim]]'', where the Thalmor, a faction of elven supremacists, have forced the empire to ban the worship of Talos, leading to the Stormcloak rebellion. The stated reason for this is that the Thalmor refuse to accept that a human could achieve godhood, although it is suggested that {{spoiler|destroying Talos by depriving him of worship is one stage in the Thalmor's grand pland to destroy Mundus and [[Ascend to A Higher Plane of Existence]].}}

* Prayer is the source of [[Mana]] in ''[[Black and White]]'', and determines the size of your territory.

* Power-ups in ''[[Okami (Video Game)|Okami]]'' come from the praise you get for performing miracles. {{spoiler|And at the end, Ammy becomes gets an [[Eleventh Hour Superpower]] through people praying directly to her. [[~~Powerup~~ Letdown|Purely cosmetic, though.]]}} Overall, this trope seems to be one of the game's underlying themes, as it's mentioned quite early on how people's faith in the divine has dwindled.

* Power-ups in ''[[Okami (Video Game)|Okami]]'' come from the praise you get for performing miracles. {{spoiler|And at the end, Ammy becomes gets an [[Eleventh Hour Superpower]] through people praying directly to her. [[Power-Up Letdown|Purely cosmetic, though.]]}} Overall, this trope seems to be one of the game's underlying themes, as it's mentioned quite early on how people's faith in the divine has dwindled.

** This mechanic returns in the sequel, ''[[Okamiden (Video Game)|Okamiden]]''.

* In ''[[Age of Mythology (Video Game)|Age of Mythology]]'', the player literally generates favour for their gods to produce miracles. Greeks pray at temples, Egyptians build monuments, Norse go to war, and Altanteans control town centers to generate favour.

* ''[[Seven Kingdoms]]'' had temples where you'd sent people to pray to your nations "Greater Being" (based on a god of the respective mythology). In this case, you'd could either summon the god himself (some are fighters, some have special abilities) or trigger a random miracle.

* Used for evil by {{spoiler|the Church of St. Eva in}} ''[[Breath of Fire]] II'', {{spoiler|where half the priests are demons in disguise trying to power-up the [[Big Bad]], who is in fact ''[[Beam Me Up Scotty|not]]'' a god but an evil dragon with an [[Omnicidal Maniac]] agenda.}}

* Used for evil by {{spoiler|the Church of St. Eva in}} ''[[Breath of Fire]] II'', {{spoiler|where half the priests are demons in disguise trying to power-up the [[Big Bad]], who is in fact ''[[Beam Me Up, Scotty|not]]'' a god but an evil dragon with an [[Omnicidal Maniac]] agenda.}}

** Subverted by Ladon the dragon god, who's a bit grumpy that nobody believes in him anymore but nonetheless continues to exist.

* The more worshippers you have in ''[[Populous]]'', the more powerful miracles you can perform.

** In the first two games, only settled worshippers benefit you in that way, by the strength of the settlement. Giving you the choice between producing a lot of worshippers or personal power and tougher worshippers.

* This concept formed the premise of the 10th ''[[Touhou]]'' game, ''Mountain of Faith'' - goddess Kanako Yasaka, faced with fading away due to modern Japan's waning faith in the divine, decides to relocate the Moriya Shrine to [[Fantasy Kitchen Sink|Gensokyo]], where she ought to have an easier time finding worshipers. Unfortunately this muscles in on the local religious "authority," protagonist [[Miko|Reimu Hakurei]], and [[Danmaku]] ensues.

** [[Defeat Means Friendship|Once the]] [[Did We Just Have Tea With Cthulhu|tea parties are over]], the Moriya Shrine becomes an established fixture in Gensokyo, surviving quite comfortably on the faith of the local kappa and tengu. That said, Kanako hasn't stopped in her efforts to increase faith, and has repeatedly attempted to introduce modern technology into [[Medieval Stasis|Gensokyo]] as a sort of "fire from the gods" ploy. This has met with mixed success - her plan to build a fusion plant sparked the events of ''Subterranean Animism'', in which a ditzy hell-raven went [[With Great Power Comes Great Insanity|mad with the power of a sun god]] and tried to turn the surface world into a new Hell.

** [[Defeat Means Friendship|Once the]] [[Did We Just Have Tea With Cthulhu?|tea parties are over]], the Moriya Shrine becomes an established fixture in Gensokyo, surviving quite comfortably on the faith of the local kappa and tengu. That said, Kanako hasn't stopped in her efforts to increase faith, and has repeatedly attempted to introduce modern technology into [[Medieval Stasis|Gensokyo]] as a sort of "fire from the gods" ploy. This has met with mixed success - her plan to build a fusion plant sparked the events of ''Subterranean Animism'', in which a ditzy hell-raven went [[With Great Power Comes Great Insanity|mad with the power of a sun god]] and tried to turn the surface world into a new Hell.

** Fan works involving the Moriya Shrine's miko, Sanae Kochiya, often have her working to gather followers or otherwise ensure that her goddesses don't fade away.

* [[Lampshade Hanging|Lampshaded]] in ''Blood Omen: [[Legacy of Kain]]'' when Kain remarks, "The act had taken on the feel of ritual. Isn't it strange how we must bribe our gods to stay?"

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* In ''[[Shin Megami Tensei (Franchise)|Shin Megami Tensei]]'', the gods, demons, and spirits feed on a substance called Magnetite or Magatsuhi - which is human belief and emotion and works as the setting's mana source. In ''[[Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne|Nocturne]]'', when humanity was wiped out, demons had to abuse [[Artificial Humans]] to produce Magatsuhi to stay alive.

** For as long as a single person believes in YHVH as his or her god, He will return, again and again. Unfortunately, it seems the [[Mega Ten]] universe works on the same principle as the ''Malazan'' example above-Humanity's own inner darkness and desire for a God [[Humans Are Bastards|that accurately represents them]] has horrifically twisted Him into a bitter, unsympathetic tyrant with nothing but contempt for humans.

** Even worse, this trope may have been the origin point for [[Cosmic Horror|Nyarlathotep]], a monster [[Made of Evil|born of the hatred, fear, greed and despair of all of mankind]]. As the Shadow of Humanity's collective unconscious, it is ''[[Complete Monster|really]]'' [[Hannibal Lecture|easy]] [[Shut Up Kirk|to see]] [[The Heartless|where the]] [[And Then John Was a Zombie|title of]] "[[Names to Run Away From Really Fast|Crawling Chaos]]" comes from.

** Even worse, this trope may have been the origin point for [[Cosmic Horror|Nyarlathotep]], a monster [[Made of Evil|born of the hatred, fear, greed and despair of all of mankind]]. As the Shadow of Humanity's collective unconscious, it is ''[[Complete Monster|really]]'' [[Hannibal Lecture|easy]] [[Shut Up, Kirk|to see]] [[The Heartless|where the]] [[And Then John Was a Zombie|title of]] "[[Names to Run Away From Really Fast|Crawling Chaos]]" comes from.

* Referred to in ''[[Sam and Max Freelance Police (Video Game)|Sam and Max Freelance Police]]'', where Hell is conquered because too many goofy portrayals in media mean that nobody believes Beelzebub to be a threat any more and thus he is weakened, whereas the Soda Poppers are widely hated enough to have the power to challenge him.

* The ''[[Neverwinter Nights 2]]'' [[Expansion Pack]] ''Mask of the Betrayer'' is set in the [[Forgotten Realms]]. It shows just how far gods dependent on worship will go. They built the Wall of the Faithless, which punishes not sinners but non-believers. Being a atheist or a paying lip service to religion is the biggest of all sins against all the gods, and thus the good, evil, lawful, and chaotic gods all agreed that atheists shall be punished by ultimate torture and eventually the very destruction of their souls by having your soul slowly digested over thousands of years.

** It should be noted that if you read the supplements, you'll find out that the current administrator only makes use of the Wall because the other gods forced him to. Also, this is a setting where the gods are very real and walked the earth in mortal form ''en masse'' less than twenty years ago (a period known as the Time of Troubles). On Toril, literally ''every'' atheist is a [[Flat Earth Atheist]]: ending up in the Wall for atheism is akin to starving to death because you don't believe food exists.

** WARNING! PLOT POINT AHEAD! {{spoiler|1=The creator of the Spirit-Eater curse that drives the plot of ''MotB'' is the now-dead god Myrkul, who created it to ensure his [[Immortality]] by abusing this principle: as long as there was a Spirit-Eater, there would be at least one person who feared and/or worshiped him, so he could never truly die. Then the game gives you the opportunity to [[Did You Just Punch Out Cthulhu|finish him off]] [[Death By Irony|with the Spirit-Eater]].}}

** WARNING! PLOT POINT AHEAD! {{spoiler|1=The creator of the Spirit-Eater curse that drives the plot of ''MotB'' is the now-dead god Myrkul, who created it to ensure his [[Immortality]] by abusing this principle: as long as there was a Spirit-Eater, there would be at least one person who feared and/or worshiped him, so he could never truly die. Then the game gives you the opportunity to [[Did You Just Punch Out Cthulhu?|finish him off]] [[Death By Irony|with the Spirit-Eater]].}}

* This is a plot point in ''[[Disgaea 4 a Promise Unforgotten (Video Game)|Disgaea 4 a Promise Unforgotten]]''. The Netherworld and Celestia need fear and love from humans to maintain their power, but it's become difficult for demons to plant fear in humans since humans have become so [[Humans Are Bastards|corrupt]] that they now fear themselves more than demons. As a result, this means they no longer have to pray to angels for protection and guidance.

* ''[[Blaz Blue]]'' has an interesting variation on this trope: [[Big Bad|Hazama]]/[[Ax Crazy|Yuuki]] [[Card Carrying Villain|Terumi]]'s existence is sustained by other people hating him. Which really does explain his ''[[Moral Event Horizon|thorough]]'' traumatization of [[Anti Hero|Ragna]] at the start of the story, as well as his [[Troll|behavior]] [[Complete Monster|in general]]... Of course, [[Crazy Prepared|he also has his network]] of [[All Powerful Bystander|Observers]] and [[Synchronization|Life-Links]] to fall back on if that lifeline ever failed him.

* ''[[Blaz Blue]]'' has an interesting variation on this trope: [[Big Bad|Hazama]]/[[Ax Crazy|Yuuki]] [[Card-Carrying Villain|Terumi]]'s existence is sustained by other people hating him. Which really does explain his ''[[Moral Event Horizon|thorough]]'' traumatization of [[Anti-Hero|Ragna]] at the start of the story, as well as his [[Troll|behavior]] [[Complete Monster|in general]]... Of course, [[Crazy Prepared|he also has his network]] of [[All Powerful Bystander|Observers]] and [[Synchronization|Life-Links]] to fall back on if that lifeline ever failed him.

** It should be noted that though hatred sustains Hazama/Terumi's existence, thus making it necessary for him to be the worst kind of [[Jerkass]] possible in order to stay alive, he is still as far from sympathetic as one can get. He has ''no'' shades of [[I Did What I Had to Do]], and has even openly admitted that he ''loves'' ruining other people's lives [[For the Evulz|for the sheer hell of it]].