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== [[
And don't forget to put ''Dark Dawn'' Headscratchers on the [[Golden Sun: Dark Dawn
* Why don't they give some Mercury Lighthouse water to Dora, Isaac's mother, when she gets sick? Okay, sure, she's pretending that Isaac can't visit her...but can't he give the pitcher to a neighbor or something and ask them to give it to her without mentioning him?
** Because the Wise One will no doubt find a way to stop them [[Omniscient Morality License|for some reason]].
** Her illness is largely psychsomatic (which, come to think of it, [[Your Mind Makes It Real|might have more serious implications for psychic people]]), being caused by the fact that her only son (who is all she has left, after the tragic death of her husband) is being forced to leave home at a young age to embark on a dangerous quest to save the world. Mercury psynergy can't heal that.
** Because they didn't have the premonition to know Dora would get sick.
* Even if the group restores Alchemy to the world, won't Gaia Falls erode Weyard anyway? It's not like it's gonna stop waterfalling, right? And why is there still an ocean if Gaia Falls are continuously spilling the ocean into oblivion?
** It ''is'' a fantasy world; my guess is, with Alchemy restored, the elements worked harmoniously enough that the water stopped eroding, though it still waterfalled. Not much science in it, but then again...
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** Maybe Saturos and Menardi planned on having Agatio and Karst help them get through Mars or something?
** First of all, it was Venus Lighthouse they were lighting, not Jupiter. As explained in the game, Venus and Mars are very closely related and the power of one can be used in place of the other. However, since you still need to go light Mars at the end of the 2nd game, it is still a valid question.
*** It's simple. She and Saturos were just plain stupid. Alex makes this clear when he says that they were exceptional warriors, but quite simply knew ''nothing'' about how the lighthouses worked, how they operated, how the puzzles and riddles within could be solved. They provably just assumed that three beacons would be enough to save the world, or at least prolong its decay (which turned out to be wrong since Mercury and Jupiter being lit just made it colder). Somewhat justified in that the Fire Clan seems to raise its people to be warriors, as opposed to the Mercury Clan who seem to know a bit more about how their machines work.
* In-game lore states that you need an Adept of the correct element to get into a lighthouse, but you need Reveal to get into Venus Lighthouse. And that's not even getting to the puzzles within each lighthouse that require Psynergy of the wrong element....
** That's a damn good point! In order to get into Venus Lighthouse you need to use Reveal (at least three times) and none of Alex's group would know it! Near the end of the first game we're lead to believe that Sheba gets them in, but Sheba doesn't even know Reveal yet! She doesn't learn it until Air's Rock!
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*** [[Deus Ex Machina|Alex can Warp. He warps everyone everywhere.]] That's about as plausible of a explanation as I can think of.
** Don't you need "Carry" to get through the Lighthouse? This Troper forgets whether or not anyone can use the Carry Stone, but it ''is'' Earth Psynergy.
*** ''[[A Wizard Did It|Alex warping!]]
* Why does Dora, all through the first game, claim that Isaac had promised to not come back until the quest was done?
** Because he did?
** Not according to my copy. The relevant conversation is as follows:
{{quote|
'''Dora''': Then what can we do?
'''Great Healer''' (indicating Isaac and Garet): Acquiring the Elemental Stars is their fate alone.
'''Dora''': Are you suggesting we place the fate of the world... in the hands of Isaac and Garet?
'''Great Healer''' nods
'''Mayor''': Garet is only a child. You can't expect him to bear such a burden...
'''Great Healer''': The Wise One has spoken. Each of you shares responsibility for this. Now, each of you must make your own decision!
'''Garet''': I don't know what to do. Isaac, you decide.
'''Great Healer''': Isaac, will you accept responsibility for the fate of the land?
(yes/no choice) }}
** Garet bemoans Isaac's acceptance of the quest, the Mayor berates Garet, the Wise One offers cryptic instructions and advice (including to look for Djinn), partly through the Great Healer, the Great Healer and the other Healers wander off, and Dora and the Mayor decide to send the boys off "Tomorrow." Nothing in that about not coming back.
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* What's with Sheba's change in personality between games? In Golden Sun she cries her eyes out over the fact that she'll never see Lalivero again, but in the Lost Age she'd rather travel the Eastern Sea with Felix, and refuses to return to Lalivero because they "might not let her leave". Make up your mind girl!
** Consider that during the first game she was being held by the far from nice duo of Saturos and Menardi, while in the second game she adventured with the much nicer group of Felix and the others. She'd probably have come to enjoy traveling with people who treated her as an equal.
** Or maybe she just doesn't like the idea of being forced to stay ''anywhere'' against her will.
** Survivor's guilt, she could have been dead after the end of the first game. Time may also have put the whole "dying planet issue" in perspective.
* In the Lost Age, the price at the Inn changes with you're number of characters, for example, at Dalia, the price when you have Felix, Jenna, and Sheba is 6 coins, and goes up to 8 when you add Piers. When Isaac and the group from [[GS 1]] joins it goes up to 16 coins. Yeah I get it, two coins per character, but here's the thing, what about Kraden? Why don't they charge for him?
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** As a non-warrior, perhaps Kraden does not need to rest, given no one else in the game seems to sleep too much. I'm actually half-serious...
** He's still walking great distances, climbing ladders, and jumping ledges. Maybe he's not that far into his age yet.
*** Because [[Memetic Badass|Kraden]] is [[Badass Grandpa|Badfreakingass]].
* Why is Babi portrayed as anything other than a [[Complete Monster]]? Let's look at everything he's done:
** 1. Steals a ship, a priceless artifact, and an immortality potion from a Utopian society.
** 2. Abandons his only friend there, so that he can never see his wife and young son again.
** 3. Rules Tolbi with an iron fist for well over a century
** 4. When he learns he may soon die of old age (at 150 years old!) he invades another city, kidnaps its Messiah (a 14-year-old girl), and uses her to blackmail the population into working as slave labor to build him a tower atop that city's sacred ruins on the off chance that looking from high up the tower will allow him to see where Lemuria is so he'll have a slightly increased chance of returning, so he can steal more immortality potion.
*** I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say he's the single most evil person in all of Weyard.
*** [[Affably Evil]]? Most of this comes to light well after you first meet and befriend him, so it's not as though, upon saving his life, he'll go ahead and let you know he's a [[Complete Monster]].
*** That's not my point, my point is, even knowing this Isaac's party is still willing to go on the mission he gave them, as if the fact that the person who gave them it was a twisted old tyrant didn't come into the equation at all.
*** Well, if he really was such a [[Complete Monster]], maybe they realized it and were [[Genre Savvy]] enough to realize that declining would probably get them the same treatment as Sheba, if not worse. And he did give them a boat when they agreed. Also, Isaac's party never actually seemed to make it to Lemuria, and given that you don't see them until Jupiter Lighthouse in The Lost Age, it's entirely possible somewhere along the way they decided that it wasn't worth the trouble for an evil tyrant, especially once he was dead. Either that or they lost the boat and don't want to tell him. Mind you, this is all venturing into [[Epileptic Trees]] territory, [[Flat Character|but it's the best I've got when the characters, much as I love them, are pretty flat.]]
*** As for your last sentence, I'm pretty sure that Isaac and co. felt the same way that Felix and co. did: once Babi was dead, there was no more need to do his dirty work. That said, it raises any number of obvious questions about what Isaac was actually ''doing'' between the end of [[GS 1]] and Jupiter Lighthouse. Anyone else have a vision of the four of them just taking a nice, luxury cruise (at Babi's expense!) around the Great Eastern Sea until Felix finally opens up the passage to the west, then sneaking into Jupiter Lighthouse while Felix wastes time with Trial Road?
*** Completely unrelated, but I remember having a fun time writing fanfic in which Garet was highly suspicious of Babi and kept calling him an evil twit.
*** Another theory, [[Values Dissonance]]. It could be they believe that one is bound by their word, or that since Babi is of a higher social standing than themselves, they have to obey him, or maybe they don't see him as evil. Weyard's culture is never discussed in detail.
*** Babi didn't actually do anything evil to either group in the games. All we really know about him is that he didn't want to die painfully and kept a large city running fairly. He may well have been a very benevolent (or at least not malign) ruler who simply wanted to know that his kingdom could run smoothly. Ignoring all that, he was the only hope any of the group had for navigating the Venus Lighthouse thanks to its ruined state.
*** Actually, after Piers joins your party and you return to Madra before meeting Karst and getting Cyclone, the townspeople state that they meet Isaac and company. We also find out they did find Lemuria, but couldn't defeat Poseidon. They went east to find Felix's group and Piers but you came back before you could meet up.
*** Babi always struck me as ruthlessly efficient and amoral rather than, you know, Caligula. His people and his servants all seem to like him just fine, especially when compared to Dodonpa up in Lunpa- his people are sick of him, and will say so. Tolbi's pretty much a kinder, gentler Rome- there's a distinct lack of bloodshed at Colosso, and cities are conquered, not exterminated, since while the workers at Babi's lighthouse may hate the guy, they're still getting paid.
*** When the party first meets Babi, they don't actually know he's something of an evil ruler. He puts on a pretty [[Affably Evil|affable]] act. It's not until things develop further that he starts to get suspicious. By the time they realise that he took Sheba as a hostage, they probably catch on to the fact that he's not the nicest guy in the world but choose to keep schtum because his [[Yes
* Why are there no water Adepts in the Apojis? There are Wind Adepts in Garoh, Fire Adepts in Kimbombo, and Earth Adepts in Izumo. The Apojis are just as close to Aqua rock as those other towns are to their elemental rocks, so why no Adepts?
** There wasn't any plot relevance to talking with adepts at Apoji, although presumably if they know how the tearstones work, they have adepts.
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** Along with the below comment, the [[Fusion Dance]] thing is likely extremely draining, dangerous and unstable.
** At a guess, because they didn't know ''how''. Saturos and Menardi are a lot more experienced, they probably have a better idea about how to use [[Geo Effects|power in their surroundings]]. However, that raises another question...
* ... Namely, why don't the Lighthouses [[Elemental Rock
** This one puzzled me for a long time until I started playing through most recently. Saturos and Menardi are from the Fire Clan. Perhaps members of actual clans are more sensitive to the Lighthouse effects than regular Adepts. Proxians are of the Fire Clan, but your party members... well, I don't really remember. Are the Lemurians the Water Clan, or is that Mia and Alex? Is Ivan of the Wind Clan? Sheba probably would be, though the Mars Lighthouse and (obviously) the Jupiter Lighthouse would have no adverse effect on her. Garet and Jenna are not of the Fire Clan, and I don't think an Earth Clan was ever alluded to within the games.
** Mercury was the only lighthouse to be entered by the party after being activated. Now as for why Garet wasn't affected...
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*** Above is a good enough explanation, but it's really [[Gameplay and Story Segregation]]. Your party has access to Dijinn, so there is no guarantee that Garet hasn't slapped on a bunch of water elementals and Ivan is the party's go to fire starter. Programming all the possibilities probably became a headache.
*** Point of minor nitpicking; no matter what powers you give the Adepts, they remain the same "kind" of Adept.
** Maybe the Djinn counteract it? Or maybe because the dev team didn't want to reduce Garet's effectiveness against Saturos any further by weakening him, and it'd be annoying to have a severely weakened party member running around the Mercury Lighthouse, and fighting the [[Final Boss]]. I'm also surprised they don't try to pull this in Lost Age, because the Jupiter Lighthouse is lit behind Agatio and Karst, and I imagine that Jupiter and Mercury have a symbolic relationship like Venus and Mars do.
*** Actually, I think it just has something to do with the Proxian ''race'' as a whole. Extreme cold is shown as being extremely debilitating to them in their town. Given that the Mercury Lighthouse is in a frozen region, and Saturos was ''literally'' standing next to the beacon during the fight, he was probably suffering some kind of extreme frostbite. Garet doesn't have that problem because, being from Vale, he's more "human" than the draconic Proxians.
**** Probably wrong: Garet is sensitive to the lighting of Venus Lighthouse - he doesn't get PP at each turn while in the Lighthouse like Isaac does, but his PP is refilled for the Fusion Dragon battle just like Isaac's.
* Something that really had me wondering every time I played through Sol Sanctum; why didn't Alex just teleport over to the Mars Star, at any point? Especially after the place started falling apart; all he did was pout and tell everyone to leave. If he could teleport/float over to Garet to get the first three, why not go for broke and nab the fourth?
** Because that would be too easy and then you wouldn't be playing ''Golden Sun'' now would you?
** Sol Sanctum, being part of Mount Aleph, is [[
*** Confirmed! Try using retreat in the sol/luna rooms before and after you grab the stars.
** I just started a new game, and I noticed that too. But then I realized that Isaac had the Mythril pouch, so I guess he needed to take it. I suppose Alex could have just taken the pouch from him, but that's the best I got.
** Also, Alex has proven he likes to make people work in his stead. And Saturos and Menardi probably know that even if they told him to move it, somehow I doubt he would have obeyed them.
* Vale is clearly known to the general population (there are roads leading there, and someone who made his living as a trader should know something of geography), so why does Hammet decide to go to a [[Wretched Hive]] over the seemingly normal little town?
** Because he doesn't want to go near a town that just experienced a ''volcanic eruption''.
** Plus at the start of the game it is sealed off from the world, no one is allowed to leave, which implies no one is allowed to enter (if that isn't explicitly said).
*** There have to be some visitors, at least under special circumstances, as Masked!Felix was apparently an out-of-towner, but the point still stands; Vale isn't exactly a popular vacation resort.
*** Visitors are mentioned, and it's mentioned that the Vale residents have to keep Psynergy a secret from them. Psynergy is such a huge part of their lifestyle that one would think it hard to hide from visitors, especially with that huge honking crystal in the middle of town, so maybe everyone's creeped out by the apparent [[Town
* When Saturos and Isaac were bartering for Sheba, why didn't Saturos demand the Mars Star in addition to (or perhaps instead of) the Shaman's Rod?
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** That's just the elements themselves, as far as anyone's resistance, that varies from individual to individual. Dullahan and Deadbeard both resist Mercury both one is weak to Jupiter and the other to Venus, for example.
* How exactly did Saturos and Menardi get their hands on a Lemurian ship?
* So let me see if I understand Saturos and Menardi's plan? First, they without ever bothering with an olive branch of peace to calmly discuss their plight with the authorities of Vale, break into someone else's property to try to steal the Elemental Stars, set off a trap which dang near kills Vale, assault locals, return years later and threaten a local famous scholar, then kidnap said scholar along with another local, then travel the globe with them (plus an unwilling pawn whose family they have hostage and an untrustworthy stranger), then cause as much damage as they can to everyone they meet along the way creating a trail of carnage a blind dying rat that's lost its sense of smell could follow as they go making enemies of literally everyone they meet, kidnap a Messiah figure, constantly backstab and threaten to get their way even with their own "allies", and just act with superiority complexes and violence all around. Then they act shocked that this very [[Chaotic Evil]] approach ultimately doesn't end well for them. [[Too Stupid to Live
** In order:
*** They did try to reason with Vale, as noted by several Proxians in ''The Lost Age''. The Valeans didn't believe that Weyard was decaying and refused to allow Prox to break the seal, so the Proxian party turned to raiding Sol Sanctum.
*** They attacked Isaac and Garet because the Valeans might have overheard them talking about the raid. Also, they were pissed that the raid failed.
*** On that note, Saturos and Menardi were the sole survivors of the incident.
*** They never explicitly threatened Kraden. They pressured him, and he was intimidated, but he wasn't under threat.
*** Their kidnap of Kraden and Jenna was a spur-of-the-moment thing, given that Aleph was erupting. It's explicitly said that they needed to take hostages so that, if Isaac and Garet survive the eruption, they would pursue the squad with the Mars Star. Jenna probably went along more willingly after learning about her parents, and Kraden was driven by his theory (note that they had no animosity towards Alex or the Proxians' quest - only towards Saturos and Menardi).
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***** As mentioned, they were the only survivors of the original team that attempted to breach Sol Sanctum. It's possible that one or more of the team were better negotiators and diplomats than S & M; at least before they bought the farm because they weren't great fighters. Perhaps they weren't even the leaders of that group to begin with.
***** About the hostages thing... if you're talking about Felix and family, they likely ''saved them from the river and took them back to Prox where they were healed''; and if you're talking about Jenna and Kraden, well... they did ask Felix if he'd rather they ''left them in the crater of an erupting volcano''. They also state that they'll take Kraden along because he has valuable knowledge, and they probably thought they could use Jenna to later trade for the Mars Star + keep Felix in check.
*** [[Chaotic Neutral]] at worst. Once again in order: whether or not you see them actually trying to civilly negotiate is irrelevant, because it was said that they did. Every time they were present ''on screen,'' when they were speaking to their antagonists that were actively trying to stop them, they were being threatening and violent, which makes sense. We don't know what how they interacted with each other and other people when they were traveling on their own -- and it is true, the worst they did to other people was the girl in the river and Hsu, neither of which are really [[Moral Event Horizon|Moral Event Horizons]]. And everything they did, they did for the sake of Prox -- which doesn't justify a lot of their violent actions such as beating up two teenagers, the girl and Hsu, and kidnapping Sheba, but it ''does'' provide them with a sympathetic motive. No one's trying to say they're not villains, but while they are clearly antagonists, they're not really ''evil'' either. Try [[Well
*** [[Values Dissonance]] also plays a role. If Agatio is anything to by, Proxian warriors are ''very'' imperialistic. The guy wanted to [[Take Over the World]]. It can be assumed that Saturos and Menardi have similar mindsets.
*** It's also possible, since the attempted negotiations with Vale happened before the events of the prologue, that Saturos and Menardi were not specifically the ones doing the negotiations-- their diplomat was one of those killed in the failed attack on Sol Sanctum in the prologue, after negotiations failed.
== [[
* Why can't you solve Yallam's problem about the swamp drying up? During the first game, the characters walk around saving people from turning into trees, clearing mountain passes and what not, why is it that here, no explanation is given as to why the swamp dried up?
** It's sometimes suspected that the swamp is a leftover of some cut content, since it's so long considering the end reward.
* Where the hell is Golden Sun DS going to take place? You've already been everywhere in all Weyard!
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** Weyard is a Ring world. You'll notice that parts of northern Angra and parts of Tundaria are both obscured in clouds, but do not end in Gaia falls.
*** Instead, they end in the world eroding into a void. You see this at the Mars Lighthouse (and it's actually a plot point that you have to relight the beacon quickly or else the lighthouse will fall over the edge)
** Weyard is like a coin, with a different world on each side.
** Apparently, the next game will feature the Golden Sun characters' descendants, and given [[
*** The continents might even start growing back to the way they were on that map in Lemuria.
*** Teasers for ''Dark Dawn'' pretty much confirm this, saying that new lands and countries have arisen since the original games.
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** Because Matthew is the best name ever and this troper named Matthew is ''most definitely'' not biased in saying so! In all seriousness, remember Kraden's talk with Isaac and Felix at the end of TLA? He surmised that more than anything else, the Wise One wanted to test Isaac and co. It's possible he may have forgiven the Wise One for that and seen the, pardon the pun, wisdom in his choices. Either that, or "Matthew" just means something different in Weyard.
** I'm holding out for it being a [[Meaningful Name]]: remember, Isaac was given a portion of the Mars star power from the Wise One himself. I'm betting that this new kid will probably have inherited some of his (great grand?)father's gift.
*** The Wise One never actually tried to ''kill'' Isaac. It was a [[Secret Test of Character]]. {{spoiler|Also, the Wise One [[Doing
** Or because it's ''not'' intended as a [[Meaningful Name]]. After all, "Isaac" means "he who laughs", and [[Heroic Mime|we don't really]] [[Silent Protagonist|see Isaac laugh a lot]].
** Maybe ''Jenna'' named Matthew.
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** Well, the parents all lived. That would certainly help in dealing with the trauma. Combination of that and the passage of time contribute to them being able to laugh at it.
*** I think the parents that ended up being hacked, burned, water, frozen, tornadoed, and earth-quaked by the kids would find it more traumatic. Isaac: (laughing) "Hey, dad, remember that time we beat the living hell out of you and Jenna and Felix's parents?" Isaac's Dad: (twitching) Yes.
** Who's to say the original cast created the Psynergy Training Ground? I saw that thing as a less-than-accurate retelling made by fans who didn't quite understand the original story, with less emphasis on "the dragon was their parents" and more emphasis on "and then they [[Rule of Cool|FOUGHT A FRICKIN THREE-HEADED DRAGON]]". They also have the Fire Clan as bad guys, which [[Anti
*** The fact that it's never said that the original cast made it pretty much confirms that, especially since the area near where the ground is located has a lot of Isaac & co. [[Hero Worshipper|fans]]. Also, bear in mind that the training ground was made for young Adepts. Telling the whole truth at such an early stage in their development would probably ''not'' have encouraged them to use their powers: they'd probably be spooked into never using them out of fear that something similar could happen to them.
** It is, literally, [[The Theme Park Version]]. And one of defining charateristics of that trope is...?
* Where the hell was Ayuthay when Felix & Co. were exploring the world during ''The Lost Age''? Their main city claims to be old enough to trace their stonecrafting tradition to the [[Precursors]], is located on a flat area along the coast a stone's throw from {{spoiler|Champa}}... Where the hell was it during the first two games? Shouldn't we have visited it at some point? This wouldn't bug me nearly so much except that it's a ''plot-important location,'' and ''nobody even tries to explain its presence''!
** [[Word of God]] is that is was on the outskirts of the Lamakan Desert (and when you first visit Ayuthay the surrounding land is indeed arid). Given how the desert had unbearable heat and was considered evil, it was probably little more than a small settlement at the time that was cut off from the rest of the world.
*** [[Fridge Brilliance]]: So ''that'''s why they have the Sand Prince stone!
* The surprise that Tret is a tree. I recall it being part of the adept training grounds, one of the few things it gets right.
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* Did anyone else think that [[They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character]] with Himi?
** Yep! One of the bigger complaints amongst the fans, as far as I know. To be fair, though, she was [[Eleventh
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