Guide Dang It/Video Games/Other Games/Strategy: Difference between revisions

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* While ''[[Disgaea]]'' lets you know that there are [[Multiple Endings]], nowhere in the included material will they tell you what factors affect these endings. This could lead to a great deal of frustration when you finally check [[Game FAQs]] and realize that the one accidental ally kill you made (easier to do than it sounds, with no non-ending-related repercussions whatsoever) disqualifies you from getting the canon ending. Or for that matter, that having an obscenely high number of ally kills at certain points in the game can earn you an early bad ending. In the DS version, there is at least an indication that the game keeps track of ally kills, but no indication of ''why''.
* While ''[[Disgaea]]'' lets you know that there are [[Multiple Endings]], nowhere in the included material will they tell you what factors affect these endings. This could lead to a great deal of frustration when you finally check [[Game FAQs]] and realize that the one accidental ally kill you made (easier to do than it sounds, with no non-ending-related repercussions whatsoever) disqualifies you from getting the canon ending. Or for that matter, that having an obscenely high number of ally kills at certain points in the game can earn you an early bad ending. In the DS version, there is at least an indication that the game keeps track of ally kills, but no indication of ''why''.
** ''[[Makai Kingdom]]'' is a little more merciful. If you get a different ending, it does have the decency to tell you what you did to get it, so at least you can avoid ''that'' one.
** ''[[Makai Kingdom]]'' is a little more merciful. If you get a different ending, it does have the decency to tell you what you did to get it, so at least you can avoid ''that'' one.
** Speaking of ''Disgaea'', to find Etna's Journal in the [[PS 2]] version, you had to flip two switches there were no indication existed, then examine a random corner with no indication that there was anything special about it -- although all you miss out on by not finding it is a different perspective on the story and a rare item towards the end of the game. The remakes each make it a bit easier to discover, along with making it unlock an alternate storyline once you complete the game -- in the PSP version, a Prinny is added near the corner you have to examine, commenting that there's a draft. The DS version also has the Prinny, and further adds notification balloons when you're near something you can interact with, making it easier to stumble across the switches by chance.
** Speaking of ''Disgaea'', to find Etna's Journal in the [[Play Station 2]] version, you had to flip two switches there were no indication existed, then examine a random corner with no indication that there was anything special about it -- although all you miss out on by not finding it is a different perspective on the story and a rare item towards the end of the game. The remakes each make it a bit easier to discover, along with making it unlock an alternate storyline once you complete the game -- in the PSP version, a Prinny is added near the corner you have to examine, commenting that there's a draft. The DS version also has the Prinny, and further adds notification balloons when you're near something you can interact with, making it easier to stumble across the switches by chance.
** The requirements for unlocking the Dark World maps in ''[[Disgaea 2]]'' range from the simple things like not taking damage, to bizarre ones like spending 30 turns on a particular map, or defeating all of the enemies with tower attacks. You're not given even the slightest hint about what the requirement for each level is.
** The requirements for unlocking the Dark World maps in ''[[Disgaea 2 Cursed Memories]]'' range from the simple things like not taking damage, to bizarre ones like spending 30 turns on a particular map, or defeating all of the enemies with tower attacks. You're not given even the slightest hint about what the requirement for each level is.
** Good luck getting to the Land of Carnage in Disgaea 4 on your own. The Promotionhell Tickets and the X-Dimension were one thing, but you need to get a '''very specific''' set of ship parts in order to get there. Parts that can only be found by torturing specific monsters for specific locations.
** Good luck getting to the Land of Carnage in Disgaea 4 on your own. The Promotionhell Tickets and the X-Dimension were one thing, but you need to get a '''very specific''' set of ship parts in order to get there. Parts that can only be found by torturing specific monsters for specific locations.
* The Variable Sword in ''[[Megaman Battle Network]]'' looks like a regular Sword with 160 power. However, by inputting button combinations that the game gives only a few of the less useful ones over the ingame BBS, Variable Sword can change its shape. It still has only 160 power, but can hit 4 times against anything (and only in the 3rd game). Even Neo Variable Sword (added in 4), with 220 power (with one combination hitting twice), isn't great either, and even worse, Neo Variable Sword's button combinations (which again, are never told by the game to the player) are ''different from the regular Variable Sword.''
* The Variable Sword in ''[[Mega Man Battle Network]]'' looks like a regular Sword with 160 power. However, by inputting button combinations that the game gives only a few of the less useful ones over the ingame BBS, Variable Sword can change its shape. It still has only 160 power, but can hit 4 times against anything (and only in the 3rd game). Even Neo Variable Sword (added in 4), with 220 power (with one combination hitting twice), isn't great either, and even worse, Neo Variable Sword's button combinations (which again, are never told by the game to the player) are ''different from the regular Variable Sword.''
** The gutspunch family of chips can apparently be fired as a rocket rather than a punch with their own button combination--and by their own I mean "each one has its own". Considering that without this they were effectively a sword that knocked people backwards, only some of the combonations are given on the ingame BBS. More importantly, in all of the games finding boss rematches (and thus the mega-class chips) for non-allied bosses, because after beating them a "ghost" appears in a specific unmarked unhinted-at dead end in if you're lucky the general region you explored just before beating him, which does not appear on the map and is virtually always in a dead end meaning the only way to find them without a map is to systematically walk into every single dead end of every internet area blindly. And after that further rematches against further-powered-up bosses for for further-powered-up chips become random encounters (ugh) on a different map. Forget the "secret areas", mystery data and hidden jack-in points; it'd take a masochist just to find all the rematches without a guide. Some jobs also require you to go to rather nonsensical areas to complete them, like the memorable occasion of finding an escaped penguin hiding in your bathroom in the sixth game.
** The gutspunch family of chips can apparently be fired as a rocket rather than a punch with their own button combination--and by their own I mean "each one has its own". Considering that without this they were effectively a sword that knocked people backwards, only some of the combonations are given on the ingame BBS. More importantly, in all of the games finding boss rematches (and thus the mega-class chips) for non-allied bosses, because after beating them a "ghost" appears in a specific unmarked unhinted-at dead end in if you're lucky the general region you explored just before beating him, which does not appear on the map and is virtually always in a dead end meaning the only way to find them without a map is to systematically walk into every single dead end of every internet area blindly. And after that further rematches against further-powered-up bosses for for further-powered-up chips become random encounters (ugh) on a different map. Forget the "secret areas", mystery data and hidden jack-in points; it'd take a masochist just to find all the rematches without a guide. Some jobs also require you to go to rather nonsensical areas to complete them, like the memorable occasion of finding an escaped penguin hiding in your bathroom in the sixth game.
** ''[[Mega Man Star Force]]'' has invisible ghost bosses as well, but in the second game they're visible until you beat them and they become random enemy encounters. But enough about that - the biggest Guide Dang It EVER occurs to a translation error: At one point a character says, "You can have a Recover150", but you don't get a Recover150. He actually WANTS a Recover150. Thanks, Crapcom.
** ''[[Mega Man Star Force]]'' has invisible ghost bosses as well, but in the second game they're visible until you beat them and they become random enemy encounters. But enough about that - the biggest Guide Dang It EVER occurs to a translation error: At one point a character says, "You can have a Recover150", but you don't get a Recover150. He actually WANTS a Recover150. Thanks, Crapcom.
** Secret Chips. Most of the ''[[Megaman Battle Network]]'' games had them (the first one didn't). In the sixth game, it's possible to get "Secret Complete" by having a friend get all of their [[One Game for The Price of Two|exclusive chips,]] then trade Libraries. That's the ''easiest'' game to get secret chips in. The fifth game has this as well, but also has two chips that can only be obtained by linking up with a completely unrelated game (Boktai 2), trading the points obtained by doing so at the Boktai Trader (you get points in Boktai as well that can be traded for armor), and hoping you get the chips you want (which you need to trade 50 points at once to even have a CHANCE of getting). The [[Crossover]] itself is mentioned in the instructions for both games, though, so it's still fairly easy to figure out. Game 4 requires you to defeat a bunch of opponents in the Free Space, which can only be filled with the necessary type of opponents by [[One Game for The Price of Two|linking up with another game.]] Even then, you only get the chip of the LAST opponent you face, which is determined pretty much at random, and each Navi has three levels of chip they can drop, depending on how strong or weak the game considers them to be (not that the criteria for "strength" or "weakness" is well-known). Even this can be discovered without too much difficulty, though. In addition, there's the Z-Saver [sic]. Unless you or a friend are fans of ''[[Mega Man Zero]]'', you wouldn't know that Zero 3 has the chip. Worse, if you happened to buy it used, it's entirely possible to [[Lost Forever|not have it in the cart anymore]].
** Secret Chips. Most of the ''[[Mega Man Battle Network]]'' games had them (the first one didn't). In the sixth game, it's possible to get "Secret Complete" by having a friend get all of their [[One Game for the Price of Two|exclusive chips,]] then trade Libraries. That's the ''easiest'' game to get secret chips in. The fifth game has this as well, but also has two chips that can only be obtained by linking up with a completely unrelated game (Boktai 2), trading the points obtained by doing so at the Boktai Trader (you get points in Boktai as well that can be traded for armor), and hoping you get the chips you want (which you need to trade 50 points at once to even have a CHANCE of getting). The [[Crossover]] itself is mentioned in the instructions for both games, though, so it's still fairly easy to figure out. Game 4 requires you to defeat a bunch of opponents in the Free Space, which can only be filled with the necessary type of opponents by [[One Game for the Price of Two|linking up with another game.]] Even then, you only get the chip of the LAST opponent you face, which is determined pretty much at random, and each Navi has three levels of chip they can drop, depending on how strong or weak the game considers them to be (not that the criteria for "strength" or "weakness" is well-known). Even this can be discovered without too much difficulty, though. In addition, there's the Z-Saver [sic]. Unless you or a friend are fans of ''[[Mega Man Zero]]'', you wouldn't know that Zero 3 has the chip. Worse, if you happened to buy it used, it's entirely possible to [[Lost Forever|not have it in the cart anymore]].
*** What you'll have the most difficulty finding are the Secret Chips in games 3 and 2 (though they weren't yet referred to as such). This required getting a certain number of completion stars, then battling with a friend on multiplayer, with a random chance of the victor drawing a Secret Chip from nowhere instead of getting a chip from their opponent. You could actually tilt the odds in your favor if you knew how to, and if you're looking up how to get the Secret Chips in the first place, you might as well look this up too.
*** What you'll have the most difficulty finding are the Secret Chips in games 3 and 2 (though they weren't yet referred to as such). This required getting a certain number of completion stars, then battling with a friend on multiplayer, with a random chance of the victor drawing a Secret Chip from nowhere instead of getting a chip from their opponent. You could actually tilt the odds in your favor if you knew how to, and if you're looking up how to get the Secret Chips in the first place, you might as well look this up too.
*** There's one more "Super Secret Chip" in ''[[Megaman Battle Network]] 2''. To obtain it, you must first get 100% completion, including obtaining all 10 Secret Chips, then save and return to the title screen. With your 5 shiny, multi-colored completion stars, you then have to hover the cursor over New Game and ''input a button combination that turns the letters orange.'' If you start an orange New Game, you'll be playing in Hard Mode, where the enemies deal 1.5x the damage to you, and have 1.5x the health. To make sure you don't just [[Disc One Nuke|trade for chips from the later part of the game,]] the multiplayer modes are disabled (which also prevents you from getting the Secret Chips if you somehow clear enough of the game). If you manage to get through this ridiculously hard game (less ridiculously so the farther through the game you get), you're awarded with a "Congratulations" screen and the Super Secret Chip known as Sanctuary...which appears in your NORMAL file...which you've already 100% completed...
*** There's one more "Super Secret Chip" in ''[[Mega Man Battle Network]] 2''. To obtain it, you must first get 100% completion, including obtaining all 10 Secret Chips, then save and return to the title screen. With your 5 shiny, multi-colored completion stars, you then have to hover the cursor over New Game and ''input a button combination that turns the letters orange.'' If you start an orange New Game, you'll be playing in Hard Mode, where the enemies deal 1.5x the damage to you, and have 1.5x the health. To make sure you don't just [[Disc One Nuke|trade for chips from the later part of the game,]] the multiplayer modes are disabled (which also prevents you from getting the Secret Chips if you somehow clear enough of the game). If you manage to get through this ridiculously hard game (less ridiculously so the farther through the game you get), you're awarded with a "Congratulations" screen and the Super Secret Chip known as Sanctuary...which appears in your NORMAL file...which you've already 100% completed...
*** Then there's the chips that CANNOT be obtained legitimately without going to a special event held way back when, God knows where. These included the four elemental Gospel chips, which could be used to form the [[Game Breaker]] Program Advance known as Dark Messiah (P.A. number 31/30 in the P.A. Library). This only-usable-by-cheating P.A. is then referenced in game 6 with its perfectly legal Dark Messiah NEO...
*** Then there's the chips that CANNOT be obtained legitimately without going to a special event held way back when, God knows where. These included the four elemental Gospel chips, which could be used to form the [[Game Breaker]] Program Advance known as Dark Messiah (P.A. number 31/30 in the P.A. Library). This only-usable-by-cheating P.A. is then referenced in game 6 with its perfectly legal Dark Messiah NEO...
** ''[[Megaman Battle Network]] 3'' is rather unkind to those without a guide. If you manage to clear the game, then obtain all the Standard-class chips (including the ridiculously hard-to-find Viruschips) and Mega-class chips (including those [[One Game for The Price of Two|only obtainable by trading with the other version]]), you can then unlock battles with the Omega Navis (which drop V5 chips, which are Giga-class)...by ''inputting a certain button sequence on the title screen.'' You then have to actually ''find'' the Omega Navis, and actually ''fighting'' them requires beating up a few waves of Omega-level viruses first, all in a row, which will likely leave you weakened for the upcoming boss battle. Did I mention that one of the Program Advances (needed for the P.A. Complete star) requires using one of three of these V5 chips, alongside two other chips that are quite pathetic on their own?
** ''[[Mega Man Battle Network]] 3'' is rather unkind to those without a guide. If you manage to clear the game, then obtain all the Standard-class chips (including the ridiculously hard-to-find Viruschips) and Mega-class chips (including those [[One Game for the Price of Two|only obtainable by trading with the other version]]), you can then unlock battles with the Omega Navis (which drop V5 chips, which are Giga-class)...by ''inputting a certain button sequence on the title screen.'' You then have to actually ''find'' the Omega Navis, and actually ''fighting'' them requires beating up a few waves of Omega-level viruses first, all in a row, which will likely leave you weakened for the upcoming boss battle. Did I mention that one of the Program Advances (needed for the P.A. Complete star) requires using one of three of these V5 chips, alongside two other chips that are quite pathetic on their own?
*** Not to mention how several of the chips in that game could only be obtained by 1. defeating a virus, 2. with a Busting Rank of S, 3. in under 5 seconds, 4. while in a Custom Style (no using, say, HeatGuts Style), 5. without using the Mega Buster or any chips that freeze time. This is referred to as a "Special Custom Drop," and while most viruses just drop their usual chips in rare, hard-to-find codes, some viruses dropped completely different chips (BodyBurn becomes Burner, LavaCannon becomes Volcano). Worse yet, replace "under 5 seconds" with "under 20 seconds," and you've got the requirements to obtain any Navi's V4 chip. Couple this with how difficult Navi ghosts can be to find, ''especially'' in that game (which has special conditions for several of the ghosts, like having a specific program equipped, or being low on health), and you'll definitely be shouting "GUIDE DANG IT!" before long. Oh, and if your friend with the other version can't do well enough against [[One Game for The Price of Two|the Navi exclusive to that version,]] you can kiss your 100% completion goodbye.
*** Not to mention how several of the chips in that game could only be obtained by 1. defeating a virus, 2. with a Busting Rank of S, 3. in under 5 seconds, 4. while in a Custom Style (no using, say, HeatGuts Style), 5. without using the Mega Buster or any chips that freeze time. This is referred to as a "Special Custom Drop," and while most viruses just drop their usual chips in rare, hard-to-find codes, some viruses dropped completely different chips (BodyBurn becomes Burner, LavaCannon becomes Volcano). Worse yet, replace "under 5 seconds" with "under 20 seconds," and you've got the requirements to obtain any Navi's V4 chip. Couple this with how difficult Navi ghosts can be to find, ''especially'' in that game (which has special conditions for several of the ghosts, like having a specific program equipped, or being low on health), and you'll definitely be shouting "GUIDE DANG IT!" before long. Oh, and if your friend with the other version can't do well enough against [[One Game for the Price of Two|the Navi exclusive to that version,]] you can kiss your 100% completion goodbye.
*** In the plotline for ''[[Megaman Battle Network]] 3'', one of the clues to find a magical [[McGuffin]] to complete the game is "one of many birds". Easy, in a game with a zoo area, and many birdlike enemies to battle. Unfortunately, the many birds refer to {{spoiler|the paper cranes around a sick patient's hospital room}}. All references to which have been stripped out of the English version.
*** In the plotline for ''[[Mega Man Battle Network]] 3'', one of the clues to find a magical [[McGuffin]] to complete the game is "one of many birds". Easy, in a game with a zoo area, and many birdlike enemies to battle. Unfortunately, the many birds refer to {{spoiler|the paper cranes around a sick patient's hospital room}}. All references to which have been stripped out of the English version.
*** Worse still, there's a later sidequest where the translators flat out ''left one of the clues in Japanese.'' See the full quest [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIMaizxqCJY&feature=g-all-u&context=G242feb8FAAAAAAAAAAA here.]
*** Worse still, there's a later sidequest where the translators flat out ''left one of the clues in Japanese.'' See the full quest [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIMaizxqCJY&feature=g-all-u&context=G242feb8FAAAAAAAAAAA here.]
** ''[[Megaman Battle Network]] 6'' has "rare" viruses that show up randomly in specific areas. For instance, RareBombCorn shows up in JudgeTree3. If a rare virus is defeated, you can then use that virus in a fun little virus battle mini-game. Just try and collect ''all'' the viruses without a guide.
** ''[[Mega Man Battle Network]] 6'' has "rare" viruses that show up randomly in specific areas. For instance, RareBombCorn shows up in JudgeTree3. If a rare virus is defeated, you can then use that virus in a fun little virus battle mini-game. Just try and collect ''all'' the viruses without a guide.
*** Oh, and the rare viruses also drop rare ''chips'' (or rare chip codes) at their highest busting rank (ReflecMet * chips, for example). Since it's pretty difficult to beat most of them in the absurdly short time required (without specifically preparing for it) and there's no explicit information saying the drops are any different...
*** Oh, and the rare viruses also drop rare ''chips'' (or rare chip codes) at their highest busting rank (ReflecMet * chips, for example). Since it's pretty difficult to beat most of them in the absurdly short time required (without specifically preparing for it) and there's no explicit information saying the drops are any different...
* ''[[Shining Force]]'' has one of the most [[Egregious]] examples of this: A unique item required to promote one of the character types is simply on the ground in a random spot in a castle. The only way one would legitimately find the thing would be to manually search (through a menu!) ''every tile in the game''.
* ''[[Shining Force]]'' has one of the most [[Egregious]] examples of this: A unique item required to promote one of the character types is simply on the ground in a random spot in a castle. The only way one would legitimately find the thing would be to manually search (through a menu!) ''every tile in the game''.
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* The third-to-last mission of ''[[Rock Raiders|Lego Rock Raiders]]'', Back to Basics, has Slimy Slugs respawn endless until you either complete or fail the level, which of course makes your mission of collecting forty-five energy crystal nigh-impossible. What the game ''doesn't'' tell you is that the slugs don't start spawning until you've collected about eleven crystals, which means all you have to do is disable the "collect crystals" priority before you get too many, wait until you find a large collection of crystals in one area, build a Tool Store next to them and turning the crystal collectiong back on.
* The third-to-last mission of ''[[Rock Raiders|Lego Rock Raiders]]'', Back to Basics, has Slimy Slugs respawn endless until you either complete or fail the level, which of course makes your mission of collecting forty-five energy crystal nigh-impossible. What the game ''doesn't'' tell you is that the slugs don't start spawning until you've collected about eleven crystals, which means all you have to do is disable the "collect crystals" priority before you get too many, wait until you find a large collection of crystals in one area, build a Tool Store next to them and turning the crystal collectiong back on.
** In the whole game, Chief only tells you ''three times'' about the monsters in that mission, the other times leaving them to be a nasty surprise. Oh, and one of those three times is a [[Blatant Lies|blatant lie]].
** In the whole game, Chief only tells you ''three times'' about the monsters in that mission, the other times leaving them to be a nasty surprise. Oh, and one of those three times is a [[Blatant Lies|blatant lie]].
* There actually is a Real Life example of [[Guide Dang It]] in [[Chess (Tabletop Game)|The Game of Kings]]; many non-professional players are unaware of a maneuver called En Passent ([[Gratuitous French]] for "In Passing"), where if a player's pawn is in position to take an opponents pawn if it moves forward, and their opponent makes use of the pawn's ability to move two spaces on its first move, the pawn positioned to capture may move as if the defensive pawn had only gone forward one space, taking the opposing pawn and more than likely giving it a straight shot to the last row. It's in almost every manual and guide out there, but no casual players ever really bother to read those, or if they do they soon forget about it.
* There actually is a Real Life example of [[Guide Dang It]] in [[Chess|The Game of Kings]]; many non-professional players are unaware of a maneuver called En Passent ([[Gratuitous French]] for "In Passing"), where if a player's pawn is in position to take an opponents pawn if it moves forward, and their opponent makes use of the pawn's ability to move two spaces on its first move, the pawn positioned to capture may move as if the defensive pawn had only gone forward one space, taking the opposing pawn and more than likely giving it a straight shot to the last row. It's in almost every manual and guide out there, but no casual players ever really bother to read those, or if they do they soon forget about it.
* New players to ''[[Sword of the Stars]]'' may be confused by the [[Random Number God|Randomised]] [[Tech Tree]]. It's almost impossible to have all the random techs available for research in any one game, meaning that one may not figure out all the routes to a certain tech or all the techs that branch off from one until many games' worth of experience (or consulting the wiki) later. The aversion of [[Interface Spoiler]] only makes it worse by preventing you from seeing the links.
* New players to ''[[Sword of the Stars]]'' may be confused by the [[Random Number God|Randomised]] [[Tech Tree]]. It's almost impossible to have all the random techs available for research in any one game, meaning that one may not figure out all the routes to a certain tech or all the techs that branch off from one until many games' worth of experience (or consulting the wiki) later. The aversion of [[Interface Spoiler]] only makes it worse by preventing you from seeing the links.
* In the DOS turn-based strategy game ''[[Master of Orion (Video Game)|Master of Orion]]'', occasionally you'll come across a random quiz where you have to identify various ship designs by name. if you get the questions right, good things will happen, like one of your planets suddenly becoming a Rich planet. But if you get the questions wrong three times in succession, you are '''TOAST'''. What makes this a Guide Dang It? Well, the answers to the quizzes can only be found in the original instruction booklet or in an online search for the Ship Guide. Otherwise, good luck trying to guess your way out of it.
* In the DOS turn-based strategy game ''[[Master of Orion]]'', occasionally you'll come across a random quiz where you have to identify various ship designs by name. if you get the questions right, good things will happen, like one of your planets suddenly becoming a Rich planet. But if you get the questions wrong three times in succession, you are '''TOAST'''. What makes this a Guide Dang It? Well, the answers to the quizzes can only be found in the original instruction booklet or in an online search for the Ship Guide. Otherwise, good luck trying to guess your way out of it.
** There is actually a pattern to it but figuring it out still requires a lot of trial and error. Each faction color has it own unique ship designs. For purposes of the quiz each color is associated with a race and each race has appropriate names for their ships. For instance the bird aliens have ships named "Falcon" or "Warbird". Since the quiz is multiple choice a person who knows the pattern stands a chance of answering correctly within three tries. Keeping track of the correct and incorrect answers is almost required though.
** There is actually a pattern to it but figuring it out still requires a lot of trial and error. Each faction color has it own unique ship designs. For purposes of the quiz each color is associated with a race and each race has appropriate names for their ships. For instance the bird aliens have ships named "Falcon" or "Warbird". Since the quiz is multiple choice a person who knows the pattern stands a chance of answering correctly within three tries. Keeping track of the correct and incorrect answers is almost required though.
* ''[[Agarest Senki]]'' as a whole is just ''insane'' to complete without a guide. Good luck finding the right answers to properly raise the affections of the three heroines of the generation you are on without looking at the wiki. Or better yet, try unlocking the True Ending without a guide. It will absolutely tear your hair off.
* ''[[Agarest Senki]]'' as a whole is just ''insane'' to complete without a guide. Good luck finding the right answers to properly raise the affections of the three heroines of the generation you are on without looking at the wiki. Or better yet, try unlocking the True Ending without a guide. It will absolutely tear your hair off.
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