Haruhi Suzumiya/Headscratchers: Difference between revisions

* What is a "slider"? Many seem to think that or suggest that Kyon is one.

** A slider is someone who can jump from one dimension or world into another. {{spoiler|Kyon has been called this by Haruhi}} in ''Disappearance''.

* When I first started watching this series, I figured Haruhi was just really into science fiction, but then her ballpark revelation seems to suggest that she's only interested in the supernatural because she wants to experience something no one ever has before. Now, I have to wonder - why restrict yourself to aliens, time travelers, espers and sliders? Haruhi doesn't appear the least bit interested in applying the scientific method to her research to begin with, so how come we never hear her rant about, say, ghost sightings or hidden wizarding societies?

** For that speech, perhaps it was for brevity. She could have added "ghosts, witches, wizards, fairies, demigods, demons, robots, werewolves, vampires..." but it would take too long.

** Even if anything for her is fair game, if she is more into Scifi it is understandable seeking for this kind of creature first.

* This probably ranks among the silliest aspects of the series to tear your hair over, but seriously, Haruhi's apparent [[Skepticism Failure]] is making it really hard for me to grasp her character.

** [[FLCL]] is the cure for that. Otherwise, consider this: "If a phenomenon arises due to a time loop, then the phenomenon cannot be observed in isolation of that time loop."

** Only if she 1) believed that she really was God, which everyone seems confident she won't, and 2) she actually believed him, then, if she truly perceives Kyon as more powerful, it may be so. Fortunately or unfortunately for everyone, Haruhi's pretty conceited and it'd probably be a cold day in hell before she thought of someone else more powerful than her, even if she did believe the "God" thing.

** Her power doesn't just work on the principle of [[Clap Your Hands If You Believe]]. It's just as important that she wants it to be true. She certainly doesn't want anyone to be more powerful then her.

** In the movie she is usurped, without even asking her and the events in the novels following the movie she isn't the one being asked to transfer the powers.

* Why are people saying the art style of the second season is different than the first one?! THEY ARE EXACTLY. THE. SAME. I can't see any difference!!!

** It could be that you're just seeing similarities because you've been watching K-On. It looks close enough to me.

** Nah, he's right, at least during the Endless Eight arc. Whenever Haruhi smiled, it was as if Yui was cosplaying as her (as seen [http://karmaburn.com/files/screenshots/melancholy_of_haruhi_suzumiya/2009/haruhi2201.jpg here]). Thankfully, that was gone by the time Sighs rolled around.

** There was one ∞8 episode in particular that was very reminiscent of K-on but the art was not consistent across these episodes, presumably intentionally; other than the first and last no two ∞8 episodes had the same director, storyboard artist and animation supervisor despite the content being almost identical.

* How is it that Haruhi is unaware of her power? How can one ''create the universe'' without noticing?

** Why not? It's an unconscious power. She doesn't have to notice what she's doing, especially if there's no indication visible to her that anything has changed, or if she just doesn't notice it, being focused on whatever her current goals are.

* Does Kyon actually spill the beans to Haruhi at the end of Part 6? The rest of the series would indicate otherwise.

** '''Answer''' He does; the scene is shown in the novels. [[Cassandra Truth|She doesn't believe him.]] "That would be too easy."

**** New question. If the paranormals were able to use their powers, then why were most of the special effects in ''Mikuru Asahina's Adventure'' so terrible? Koizumi apparently used his esper powers at the end (even though they weren't in closed space), yet Yuki didn't use any of her reality-hacking effects.

*** The event is also shown in the anime, as of the second season. The event is a part of ''Sigh'', so it happened in that group of episodes.

**** Well having mole prone skin is a genetic thing and which other character has a mole?

***** Wait, wait, wait... are you implying that Kyon and Mikuru are somehow related? Either there's all sorts of [[Incest Is Relative|messed up stuff]] going on in the novels that I don't know about, or that was one hell of an [[Ass Pull]], my friend.

** There's a WMG that says when the anime adapts Snow Mountain Syndrome (where, while staying in a mysterious mansion, each brigade member meets a phantom fake of another member), it will be a plot point. In the novel, Kyon realizes Mikuru is a fake because ''her'' mole is absent. Guess who Itsuki sees.

 

* What's with the focus on Emiri Kimidori? Sure, she's cute, but an entire image album, and showing up in all sorts of related media and art seems kind of unusual for a character that was onscreen for all of two minutes of one episode.

** If you want to see Haruhi bending the world more freely to her whim, go read the second novel (the making of the movie). The subconscious restraint on her powers is significantly relaxed because she starts viewing the world as a stage for her movie. The cat still doesn't talk in front of her, though.

**** I thought that the cat did speak in front of her though (assuming that she was there on the roof when the filming of that scene happened, it's never explicitly mentioned) and then Yuki handwaves it to be ventriloquism.

**** Jesse has conscious control over his powers.

*** There's also the "Kyon Is God" theory: that Kyon is the one controlling reality and wishes Haruhi into existence to fulfill the childhood fantasies of aliens, time travelers and espers that his cynical side won't let him admit. He passes the role of Mystical God to Haruhi because he sees himself just as every supporting character does: a normal human. In truth, he's [[The Man Behind the Man]], he just doesn't realise it. Thus, the reason that the world is just as uncooperative as ever is Kyon's cynicism and down-to-earth view at work.

***** This is not a guess. The later novels are driving at exactly this point. This may explain why Kyon understands his puppet Haruhi better than he does his servant Yuki.

** Well, at least Haruhi made herself extremely good-looking, which is not that bad.

** It always seemed to me that whatever Haruhi wants, Haruhi gets, but always in a way that doesn't interfere with her [[Willing Suspension of Disbelief]]. At some superconscious level she just wants to be a normal girl, and that level grants the whims of the more limited aspect of her mind in such a way that it still appears as though everything happened normally.

* It's mentioned that before founding the SOS Brigade, Haruhi briefly joined and quit ''every single club'' in the school. Did that include the literary club (of which the only member was Yuki) and the computer club?

*** Wait, when does she or anyone who produced the show say she knew how to play already?

** The question though is "Noticed what?". As far as she's concerned, she's just The Ace. Subconsciously, she's also grounded in normalcy. What would make her jump to the conclusion that she was special especially after her childhood realization that she's just another snowflake. And in the real world, there are in fact people who are just as talented as Haruhi - Jim Thorpe for instance was an Olympic gold medalist in the pentathlon, decathalon, Hall of Famer in both college and professional football, a professional baseball player and basketball player, as well as held the office of NFL commissioner. And this is just his sports career.

 

* According to Yuki there are four factions in the Entity: Moderates, Innovative, Compromise, and Thinking. So which factions do each of the interfaces represent?

** Those events were [[Retcon|Ret Cons]]. There may have been a universe before 07/07/07, but it's been overwritten by Haruhi's and only exists where it serves to fill in details she isn't interested in.

** Besides, if the entire universe was destroyed then remade with changes including everyones memories being retroactive...how would YOU know? Does it really make a difference if it has been or not, then?

** I think most people go with it because they're just not skeptical enough of Koizumi, and it's the only explanation presented in the anime so far. The first season of the anime doesn't really do a lot to cast doubt on the Organization's theory about Haruhi, as told by Koizumi to Kyon. The novels do so, and the anime will likely pick this up in the second season.

** It's also mentioned that the people of the future can't travel back in time before past 07/07/07, because the timeline may ''start'' at that date.

** Maybe she can't fuck with people's free will, or doesn't want to. That's what I've always assumed.

** Maybe she could have Kyon or whoever she wants just fall in love with her the moment they lay eyes on her, but why would she want to do that? If she has to struggle for his attention, against a rival for his love (Mikuru), by the time he finally admits his feelings for her, she'll know that he likes her because of who she is, and she'll feel that she's "earned" him.

* When Yuki rewrote reality why did she remove the classroom that Koizumi had used from existence.

** so that there would be some boys going to the previously all girls school, and to make Koizumi one of them.

** It's a series about a girl with mysterious, god-like powers. What else?

*** What do you see?

**** A girl who wants the world to be special, but for her to only be specialy to her [[Oblivious to Love|one special guy.]] Oh god that was sappy.

* Why doesn't Haruhi recognize Kyon from the time he helped her draw that message on those school grounds? It could not have been ''that'' dark, since there was obviously enough light for them to see what they were doing. Haruhi also got a good glimpse of Mikuru and she is by no means stupid. I consider this quite a plot hole.

** Is it? I thought it was all WMG. Then again, I haven't been able to get hold of the novels, but I doubt it's there, either.

*** Check the novels on baka-tsuki. But seriously, does anyone know? I'm getting suspicious that the line isn't ''anywhere'' in the books and someone just said it was. Then, everyone quoted that person.

*** There is no line saying Haruhi wants Koizumi to be gay, but there is one in book 6 where he says that he puts on a facade as that's how Haruhi imagined him. Seeing as Haruhi doesn't know about Koizumi being too impersonal with Kyon it's unlikely she thinks he's gay. It more likely to be his actual personality coming out whenever it has the chance to.

*** Except, as has been mentioned elsewhere on this page, who they liked had no influence on who appeared. The person who appeared was based on a mathematical formula devised by Yuki to give the key to escape. Secondly, Koizumi was specifically ''disturbed'' by what the version of Kyon in his room did.

*** Wouldn't you be disturbed if someone you knew acted completely out of character after coming into your room at night?

* Anyone else find it odd just how powerful Koizumi's organization is for a group that only formed three years ago? I mean, I know we're not getting the whole story story from Koizumi (like we ever do), but it feels like it is missing something.

** How are they powerful? There's clearly lots of infighting and they don't seem to have many extraordinary resources. Patrons like Tsuruya's family could easily cover the expenses we've seen.

** If it wasn't an ancient conspiracy, it began three years ago, but immediately had all the members it has now. Once enough time passed for them to organize, it wasn't a question of how long they existed; just who was in it.

 

** For easier storytelling purposes I believe. In the novels he uses a password-protected folder, but consider that you had... 3 seconds? so show something and let everybody understand Kyon is hiding the photos.

* Who's the adviser for the Literature Club?

* Why aliens, time travellers, espers and maybe sliders? When Haruhi created the universe what was so special about these four paranormal things that they were the ones that were real? Why not werewolves, angels, vampires and maybe ghosts?

** Haruhi likes sci-fi.

** Because if she wanted vampires, Kyon would turn into an Edward Cullen Expy and there would be a headshaped hole in my wall.

** During Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, 'John Smith' mentions to Haruhi that he knows aliens, espers and time travellers, but hasn't met any sliders. Later on the brigade encounters ghosts - more accurately "incorporeal data entities", but as Kyon notes, it's all the same thing anyway and a ghost is a ghost regardless of what it's made out of. As for werewolves, angels and vampires, Haruhi hasn't expressed any interest in those, and that's as close to deducing the reason as we can get until we know what the hell is really going on.

** It's the sort of thing you'd think of after experiencing the loop for a long time... Which they have, but since they don't remember any previous loops, they don't think of it.

*** Every episode he sits and asks her, why didn't she say something earlier? And she says, her role is to watch. And it zooms in on him. Dramatic tension rises. He might say something else! ...but he never does. It's infuriating. It looks like he very much WANTS to tell her, next time you can tell me earlier... but doesn't.

* More importantly, how on earth are Bandai going to dub this?! Will they be able to improve it somehow through varying the deliveries or the dialogue up? Or... I dunno. I hope they do SOMETHING.

 

* Okay, here's a question that has nothing to do with Season Two, any of the [[Mind Screw|craziness and plotlines of the light novels]], or Haruhi herself. Itsuki (or was it Yuki?) said that the corrupted SOS logo in "Mysterique Sign" was some number of pictobytes or some other large file size. The thing is, if it ''was'' that big, wouldn't it take hours or days to load, even with good internet speed?

** A person who jumps from one alternate universe to another. See also: [[Sliders]], for a specific example of the trope (the show didn't invent the term).

* This is about the gender bender fan series actually. It seems like Kyon and Haruhi's roles are switched at times. Shouldn't they both act like their canon counterparts but..Well, a bit different since they're the opposite gender. Haruki's a bit OOC, same with Kyonko. Also, is Haruki still a god and Kyonko his snarky BFF?

* I don't get why the fandom, not the people in the show itself, ever question anything that Koizumi says, even though he's a self admitted chronic liar. Stuff lie Kyon being ordinary, or that Koizumi would stand by the SOS Brigade if push came to shove. How come no one ever says "But Koizumi has a tendency to lie and withold information, so everything he says should be taken with a grain of salt"?

** ''[[Logic Bomb|So, when he admitted being a chronic liar, why did you believe that to him?'']]<br />But seriously, when did he say anything like that? I can only remember that sometimes he suddenly ended his monologue with "I was just joking", but there was no actual proven example of him directly misleading others (except Haruhi, of course).

* Why does everyone always use the term "Haruhi CREATED the world" instead of something more probable like "she REWROTE the world"? Clearly everyone else is older than three years old, but this isn't my point, since everyone refers to events before 07/07/07, and fake memories for everyone who just got created just seems like a too easy explanation for me. I haven't read the novels so I might be missing out on something, or is this just an error in translation?

 

 

** Those aren't other universes yet, and the belief is those would cause our universe to be overwritten, rather than making a new one.

*** They don't take up space in our universe, and they can't be entered by normal people. In what way are they not universes?

*** [[Fridge Brilliance|That's just brilliant.]]

* Why does everyone allow Haruhi to make a second film after what happened the first time? They obviously have to let her if she insists enough, but I didn't get the impression that they tried very hard to stop her.

** Two reasons. First, "why Yuki didn't act earlier?": it's because that's how the [[Stable Time Loop]] works. Do you want to make something different from what you know it's the future and make a time paradox? remember that Mikuru, who is from the future, exists here and now. Second "why Yuki doesn't synchronize more often?": it's because she doesn't like synchronization. In the seventh novel it's revealed that {{spoiler|Yuki asked by her own will to the IDSE that her ability to sinchronize to be locked. As a result she got "freedom beyond what she had imagined (...) being able to act by her own free will, unbonud by the future".}}

** The stable time loop only exists because Yuki didn't act earlier. You don't see her jumping off a bridge because she remembered jumping off a bridge. She has been seen remembering the future for less useful purposes, such as fortune-telling and blocking airsoft BBs. Admittedly, those examples she'd know when to remember the future, but you'd think she'd figure at least the movie Haruhi made would be dangerous enough to merit it the whole time. Also {{spoiler|if it's just Yuki that doesn't like synchronizing, that doesn't explain why Ryoko didn't know Yuki would beat her, or why Yuki's higher-ups didn't warn her.}}

* I got the impression that the nanomachines Yuki was giving Mikuru were supposed to make the various versions of the Mikuru beam impossible. They were already impossible. Is making it more impossible supposed to stop Haruhi's reality-warping?

** It looks like the nanomachines Yuki injects Mikuru work only for neutralize one kind of Mikuru Beam. So each time Haruhi changes the kind of beam Mikuru has to be bitten again.

* After reading novel 7, I'm confused. Between the night that Nagato altered the universe, was stopped by future Nagato who turned the universe back and Kyon being tossed down a flight of stairs by Nagato, there was an entire schoolday in which Kyon attented school with Haruhi, decorated the clubroom, agreed to be a reindeer at the Christmas party and left the clubroom that Kyon never actually lives through. Was this Kyon a fabrication of Nagato? Alternatively was this Kyon real and when the universe was turned back a Kyon was included that woke up tht morning only to be deleted by Nagato before she tossed the Kyon that went through the events of Disappearance down those stairs?

** Does the universe really exist when Kyon (and only Kyon) isn't watching it? This would explain volumes about why various groups need to move him through time and space to get him to take part in certain activities and how easy it is to overcome any incident which kills him (and so removes his reality lock). Also closed spaces seem to move to those times of night when he is himself asleep.

** Two things: secrecy and lies. Nagato tells Kyon everything about her organisation (at least as much as he can understand) and Mikuru is physically unable to share her "classified information". On the other hand, Koizumi chooses to reveal as little as possible about his superiors. He also shamelessly gives false and misleading information to Kyon just to test his reaction (as far as we know), so Kyon has every reason to be paranoid around him. Personally, this troper expects the last novel to reveal that Kyon was [[Properly Paranoid]] about the Organisation all along, which would also reveal whether or not Koizumi was being honest when he said that he would pick the SOS Brigade over the Organisation.

** Also, the Tsuruya family may be part of the Agency, but Tsuruya herself is not. What she did was not related to the Agency at all.

But Nagato isn't my problem. The [[Data Overmind]] itself>Koizumi in Kyon's group of people he trusts? WHY?

* Why was ''The Adventures of Asahina Mikuru'' so terrible? Haruhi both ''wants'' the film to be really good, and ''believes'' that the film is really good (apparently the conditions necessary for her powers to be invoked), so reality should have warped and made the film really good. Yet, clearly, it's still a terrible film.

** You answered your own question. Haruhi believes it to be a good film, and that's enough. Film quality is subjective, anyhow.

** Furthermore, she was able to archive her main goal. It was displayed in the festival ''and'' it bombed. Half of the school (the male half) watched it.

* Ok, this troper is not very familiar with the show in general, but he saw the scene with Haruhi blackmailing the computer club president through false incrimination, who then... gave in. What the hell? Aside from the moral implications of such appeasement, what is to stop her from distributing the pictures ANYWAY, after having been given the computer? After all, if someone is willing to BLACKMAIL through FALSE INCRIMINATION, it shows how dishonest she is willing to be. A better solution would have been for Kyon to block the door, and if she tries to escape, to knock the camera out of her hand and shatter it against the floor. That blackmail and false incrimination would be played for laughs in the first place also bugs this troper...

** By your logic, he had 2 choices: Ignore her, and she leaks the pictures, or give in, and she MIGHT leak the pictures. When given a choice between definentely and maybe, it's best to go with maybe.

*** But it's NOT a choice between definitely and maybe. They could have found some way to stop her from leaking the pictures, such as, let's say, destroying the camera. Seeing as how I already mentioned that in the bullet point you're referring you, you really seem to be [[Completely Missing the Point]].

*** Kyon ''is'' involved, in the novel, anyway. He is the one taking the photos. Which make less likely for the Computer Club President to take the camera, anyway.

 

 

** Yes, there is a second Kyon in that timeframe. Why that should cause any trouble? After all, when he time travelled his past self never noticed him (and, like present!Haruhi and 3-years-ago!Haruhi, Kyon must look different enough than his non-time-traveling self so the people who see him at night might not recognize him as Kyon). As for mentioning, Kyon asks Yuki the natural conclusion to that (in the ''Melancholy'' arc the Kyon frozen in time and the one unfrozen are in adjacent rooms), and she confirms.

** The unfrozen Kyon is sent to the past to help the younger Haruhi as your first question said. The unfreeze is done after the time travel so when the frozen Kyon awakens there's only one of him.

*** No. In ''Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody'' never are more than two Kyons shown at the same time. Take "freeze frames" (for giving a name) of the story and count how many Kyon's there are: <ref> '''past!Kyon''' is the middle-schooler who lived 3 years ago; '''present!Kyon''' is the one when the story starts, soon after the creation of the SOS Brigade; he becomes '''time-traveler!Kyon''' after Mikuru carries him to the past, and then in when he helps Haruhi and asks Nagato for help; when he is in the room frozen in time he becomes '''frozen-in-time!Kyon''' for the three years he goes through [[The Slow Path]]; when he's freed he's '''unfrozen!Kyon''' and continues his not-so-normal life</ref> in the three years ago, after the time travel there are past!Kyon and time-traveler!Kyon; a few hours later after the time freeze there are still two: past!Kyon and frozen-in-time!Kyon. As the time passes to the present past!Kyon ''becomes'' present!Kyon with the second self (frozen-in-time!Kyon) still in that special room. Then, in the Tanabata present!Kyon goes to three years ago, leaving frozen-in-time!Kyon as the only one. After he's unfrozen, unfrozen!Kyon is still the only one. Thus, no Kyon created, no Kyon destroyed and always two Kyons at most.

** To go along with this, I know that [[This Wiki]] once said that the three-years-ago [[Stable Time Loop]] caused their to be ''four'' Kyons and three Mikurus at Tanabata. Thing is, I've gone over this many times and there only ever seems to be three Kyons (the middle-schooled aged Kyon of the past, the Kyon who got sent back in "Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody", and the Kyon who got sent back in ''Disappearance'') and two Mikurus (big and small) at that point. Can someone please tell me where the extra Kyon and Mikuru are?

*** The troper probably got confused about the Kyon and Mikuru who went back to the start of the alternate timeline to save Kyon.

F,M:......... }}

** I'm not sure I understand the question. There's only one Mikuru, and she travels around in time. It is unknown how many years in the future she is from, or how old she is. She's ''probably'' not born yet in the time of the series, given how strange her perception of technology is said to be. So she's born in the future, grows up to however old she is, including a normal education and training in the future, and then is sent back in time to the present as a low-level agent. She now lives in the present, but at some point in her life will go back to the future and become a higher ranking agent (and her own boss). There is no Mikuru from the present.

*** Yeah, neither do I. But then what is this loli<ref>what? that's how she was described in the novels</ref>-Mikuru and the adult-Mikuru thing? As far as I know, adult-mikuru is her real self, but her younger version is born in the same period and sent back in to the past.....? Ow, my head hurts.

**** Not trying to be annoying or anything, but then where's X Mikuru?

***** This troper assumed X Mikuru was not even born yet.

* Surely asked like 9000 times, but is there any source for "Asakura asks Yuki, during their fight: ''"You love Kyon-kun, don't you? I know you have realized it."'' Is it japanese/original specific or was it preserved in the English translation?

** I think it was when during their fight, the said conversation was in one of the slowed down version of SQL chants in the anime. You are forgiven for never hearing that.

 

** Huh? Alt!Yuki was what she thought Kyon wanted her to be...? Uhm, did it really say that in the novel?

*** It is not Out Of Character, because the fact that Kyon actually enjoys all the craziness was the whole point of him being an [[Unreliable Narrator]], before that became this series' equivalent of "[[A Wizard Did It]]".

 

* Just wondering, does everyone in the fandom, at least those who read the novels, actually understand all that [[Time Travel]] from the 4th novel and on? I'm not going to lie here, I have no idea how Kyon solved all that clusterf**k that is the 4th novel. D:

** I haven't read anything past the fourth novel, but I'm with you. The fourth novel was confusing, to say the least.

* Excuse me, but where the hell are Haruhi's parents? Her dad is mentioned during her recollection of the ballpark incident, ("I asked my dad how many people were in the stadium") but her parents are never mentioned again. Do they know that Haruhi is the leader of the SOS Brigade? Do they know about their daughter's obsession with the supernatural? [[Fridge Brilliance|Do they have powers, too?]] And wouldn't that make Haruhi a demi-god? Is she [[Parental Neglect|really a]][[Parental Abandonment|n orphan?]] It just bugs me how there's nothing about her parents, when there's so much potential there...

* Ok, I can see how DITE figure out where that "Data Explosion/Flare" came from, but how did Mikuru and Koizumi's factions found out that Haruhi is responsible for Temporal Plane Block (how d'ya call it?) and Esper empowerment respectively? How did they track it down to Haruhi?

*** ....ok, about the TT, since they are technologically advanced to the point of being able to time travel, guess I should just accept that there's SOME WAY to track down the location of the phenomena...but Espers...I doubt that they have ANY method to figure it out. Also, how did the Organization figured out the existence of other two factions anyway? Surely they have a lot of connection, but I don't think it helps in that kind of matter, unless it somehow involves NASA and MIT. Hmm, wonder if they any affiliation with Freemasons or the Illuminati...

** It is explicitly stated by Koizumi that one day [[[Arc Words]] three years ago] he and the other espers just woke up knowing:

**** If Haruhi really did reset the universe once before, then the catalyst you are talking about was some event in some other universe where Kyon probably didn't exist, time travelers cannot reach, and even the aliens probably don't know about. It's surely beyond the reach of the audience as well. We'll never know, and probably couldn't even imagine it.