Honor Before Reason/Live-Action TV: Difference between revisions

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{{trope}}
Examples of [[{{TOPLEVELPAGE}}]] in [[{{SUBPAGENAME}}]] include:
* ''[[Game of Thrones]]'' has Eddard Stark embody this trope and it does him far more harm than good. His eldest son Robb also inherit it from him.
 
* In [[Scorpion]] Walter O'Brian is ''always'' putting honor before reason and ''always'' trying to find a rational reason for it.
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== ''[[Firefly]]'' ==
* In ''[[Firefly]]'', Captain Malcolm Reynolds chooses to take in and shelter Simon and River Tam, despite the fact that having them on board increases the danger to his crew and actually puts all them in danger multiple times. When asked why he would do something so risky for people he barely knows when he seems like such a rational, cold-hearted bastard, he doesn't respond, tries to avoid answering altogether, or offers some flimsy excuse that everyone can see through quite clearly.
** Though this trope applies once they've become part of his crew, his reason for offering that protection in the first place probably come down to a simple [[Take That]] against the Alliance.
** [[The Movie|The Big Damn Movie]] shows this in one of its more powerful scenes: After River's psychotic rampage, and when Mal is confronted with every rational reason to leave them behind, he ''still'' chooses to protect them and fight for them.
** Mal is still brutally pragmatic, though, especially when dealing with threats to [[Nakama|his crew.]] Case in point: him kicking Crow into the ship's engine after he declared they would meet again in "The Train Job," or when he decided to [[Why Don't YaYou Just Shoot Him?|shoot the Operative]] as soon as he said he was unarmed in ''Serenity''. That's what we like about Mal: he has honor, but not ''stupid'' honor."
** Or most times he does. On occasion, though, fighting for honor means Mal risking very likely death, which Inara once calls him on and points out how senseless it is. And, of course, much of his fighting against the Alliance (equally risky) probably IS''is'' an honor thing for him, including the less honorable criminal stuff (which is the only way he can justify it, and sometimes not even then).
** Mal does make it a point to help out people who are in dire straits, though; in "The Train Job," the moment he finds out the cargo he stole is medicine for the dying villagers he chooses to return it. When the local lawman remarks that people have a choice to make when they find out the details of a situation like theirs, Mal's only response is that he feels they ''don't'' have a choice at all.
** Even ''[[Heroic Sociopath|Jayne]]'' has a few instances of this. One particular example is in "War Stories," where he outright tells the rest of the crew that going to rescue Mal from Niska's army of thugs is insane and a suicide mission. Later on, as everyone is preparing to go on the rescue mission, Jayne appears, fully loaded with all of his guns and ready to do his part. At the surprised look of the rest of the crew, his only response is a confused "What?"
** Jayne's sense of honor showed through in its own way; after betraying Simon and River Tam to the feds in "Ariel" and having to bust them back out due to getting pinched right long with them, he pleads with Mal [[Treachery Cover-Up|not to let the others know about his dishonorable actions]], even while he was faced with his own death by being [[Thrown Out the Airlock]]. That's the only reason Mal spared him.
*** It's also worth noting that Jayne could have easily left both of them there to distract the Feds and make a clean getaway, but he still helps them escape.
*** Maybe he just didn't think of it.
** Simon also does this for River, and he strictly follows the [[Inconvenient Hippocratic Oath|Hippocratic Oath]] even when he might risk capture or when it's someone he doesn't particularly like.
 
== ''[[Star Trek]]'' ==
* In the classic ''[[Star Trek: The Original Series]]'' episode, "Spectre of the Gun", Kirk becomes increasingly desperate to escape the surreal nightmare [[Death Trap]] he and his landing party are thrust in. However, when the sheriff suggests he ambush the Earps to murder them, Kirk becomes nearly hysterical that he cannot stoop that low regardless of how dire the situation is. However, after the party figures a way to beat the trap, Kirk keeps to that same principle to spare the defeated Earps and that act impresses the aliens to not only let Kirk's party go, but also open up relations with the Federation. Thus by keeping to his principles, Kirk pulls a real victory out of the affair instead of mere survival. The same thing happens in "Arena" when he refuses to finish off the Gorn. Although by that point the Gorn wasn't in any shape to take advantage.
** Ironically, the outcome of "Spectre of the Gun" was due to [[Executive Meddling]]. In the original script, Kirk ''does'' let pragmatism trump honor, and shoots Wyatt Earp in the back. The aliens release Kirk not because they're impressed by his principles, but because, having read his mind, they know he ''believes'' in honor, and conclude that for him to have violated his own principles, he must be insane, and therefore not culpable for his actions.
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*** Even Kate Mulgrew admitted that Janeway was written very inconsistently from episode to episode, which includes her unreliable relationship with the Prime Directive.
** Janeway's first officer, Chakotay, at times exhibited this attitude as well; usually in confrontation with Janeway during one of the many instances where she ''was'' entirely willing to break the rules. Chakotay is probably one of the most consistent (if not well-known) examples of this trope, after [[Game of Thrones]]' Ned Stark.
 
* In ''[[Firefly]]'', Captain Malcolm Reynolds chooses to take in and shelter Simon and River Tam, despite the fact that having them on board increases the danger to his crew and actually puts all them in danger multiple times. When asked why he would do something so risky for people he barely knows when he seems like such a rational, cold-hearted bastard, he doesn't respond, tries to avoid answering altogether, or offers some flimsy excuse that everyone can see through quite clearly.
== Other works ==
** Though this trope applies once they've become part of his crew, his reason for offering that protection in the first place probably come down to a simple [[Take That]] against the Alliance.
* ''[[Game of Thrones]]'' has Eddard Stark embody this trope and it does him far more harm than good. His eldest son Robb also inherit it from him.
** [[The Movie|The Big Damn Movie]] shows this in one of its more powerful scenes: After River's psychotic rampage, and when Mal is confronted with every rational reason to leave them behind, he ''still'' chooses to protect them and fight for them.
* In [[Scorpion]] Walter O'Brian is ''always'' putting honor before reason and ''always'' trying to find a rational reason for it.
** Mal is still brutally pragmatic, though, especially when dealing with threats to [[Nakama|his crew.]] Case in point: him kicking Crow into the ship's engine after he declared they would meet again in "The Train Job," or when he decided to [[Why Don't Ya Just Shoot Him|shoot the Operative]] as soon as he said he was unarmed in ''Serenity''. That's what we like about Mal: he has honor, but not ''stupid'' honor."
** Or most times he does. On occasion, though, fighting for honor means Mal risking very likely death, which Inara once calls him on and points out how senseless it is. And, of course, much of his fighting against the Alliance (equally risky) probably IS an honor thing for him, including the less honorable criminal stuff (which is the only way he can justify it, and sometimes not even then).
** Mal does make it a point to help out people who are in dire straits, though; in "The Train Job," the moment he finds out the cargo he stole is medicine for the dying villagers he chooses to return it. When the local lawman remarks that people have a choice to make when they find out the details of a situation like theirs, Mal's only response is that he feels they ''don't'' have a choice at all.
** Even ''[[Heroic Sociopath|Jayne]]'' has a few instances of this. One particular example is in "War Stories," where he outright tells the rest of the crew that going to rescue Mal from Niska's army of thugs is insane and a suicide mission. Later on, as everyone is preparing to go on the rescue mission, Jayne appears, fully loaded with all of his guns and ready to do his part. At the surprised look of the rest of the crew, his only response is a confused "What?"
** Jayne's sense of honor showed through in its own way; after betraying Simon and River Tam to the feds in "Ariel" and having to bust them back out due to getting pinched right long with them, he pleads with Mal [[Treachery Cover-Up|not to let the others know about his dishonorable actions]], even while he was faced with his own death by being [[Thrown Out the Airlock]]. That's the only reason Mal spared him.
*** It's also worth noting that Jayne could have easily left both of them there to distract the Feds and make a clean getaway, but he still helps them escape.
*** Maybe he just didn't think of it.
** Simon also does this for River, and he strictly follows the [[Inconvenient Hippocratic Oath|Hippocratic Oath]] even when he might risk capture or when it's someone he doesn't particularly like.
* ''[[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]]'' tends to follow this trope when it comes to Buffy dealing with a human threat, at least until the Bringers (were they human?). She lets a werewolf hunter leave even though judging by the collection of teeth he's killed dozens of people to get werewolf pelts. She refuses to kill her friend Ford, who betrayed her, until after he becomes a vampire.
** Perhaps the most extreme case is the fifth season, when she has to choose between saving her sister or saving the universe. She threatens everyone with death if they go near her sister. Then she [[Take a Third Option|takes a third option]].