Honor Before Reason/Live-Action TV: Difference between revisions

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{{trope}}
Examples of [[{{TOPLEVELPAGE}}]] in [[{{SUBPAGENAME}}]] include:
* [[Game of Thrones]] has Eddard Stark embody this trope and it does him far more harm than good. His eldest son Robb also inherit it from him.
 
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== ''[[Firefly]]'' ==
* In ''[[Firefly]]'', Captain Malcolm Reynolds chooses to take in and shelter Simon and River Tam, despite the fact that having them on board increases the danger to his crew and actually puts all them in danger multiple times. When asked why he would do something so risky for people he barely knows when he seems like such a rational, cold-hearted bastard, he doesn't respond, tries to avoid answering altogether, or offers some flimsy excuse that everyone can see through quite clearly.
** Though this trope applies once they've become part of his crew, his reason for offering that protection in the first place probably come down to a simple [[Take That]] against the Alliance.
** [[The Movie|The Big Damn Movie]] shows this in one of its more powerful scenes: After River's psychotic rampage, and when Mal is confronted with every rational reason to leave them behind, he ''still'' chooses to protect them and fight for them.
** Mal is still brutally pragmatic, though, especially when dealing with threats to [[Nakama|his crew.]] Case in point: him kicking Crow into the ship's engine after he declared they would meet again in "The Train Job," or when he decided to [[Why Don't YaYou Just Shoot Him?|shoot the Operative]] as soon as he said he was unarmed in ''Serenity''. That's what we like about Mal: he has honor, but not ''stupid'' honor."
** Or most times he does. On occasion, though, fighting for honor means Mal risking very likely death, which Inara once calls him on and points out how senseless it is. And, of course, much of his fighting against the Alliance (equally risky) probably IS''is'' an honor thing for him, including the less honorable criminal stuff (which is the only way he can justify it, and sometimes not even then).
** Mal does make it a point to help out people who are in dire straits, though; in "The Train Job," the moment he finds out the cargo he stole is medicine for the dying villagers he chooses to return it. When the local lawman remarks that people have a choice to make when they find out the details of a situation like theirs, Mal's only response is that he feels they ''don't'' have a choice at all.
** Even ''[[Heroic Sociopath|Jayne]]'' has a few instances of this. One particular example is in "War Stories," where he outright tells the rest of the crew that going to rescue Mal from Niska's army of thugs is insane and a suicide mission. Later on, as everyone is preparing to go on the rescue mission, Jayne appears, fully loaded with all of his guns and ready to do his part. At the surprised look of the rest of the crew, his only response is a confused "What?"
** Jayne's sense of honor showed through in its own way; after betraying Simon and River Tam to the feds in "Ariel" and having to bust them back out due to getting pinched right long with them, he pleads with Mal [[Treachery Cover-Up|not to let the others know about his dishonorable actions]], even while he was faced with his own death by being [[Thrown Out the Airlock]]. That's the only reason Mal spared him.
*** It's also worth noting that Jayne could have easily left both of them there to distract the Feds and make a clean getaway, but he still helps them escape.
*** Maybe he just didn't think of it.
** Simon also does this for River, and he strictly follows the [[Inconvenient Hippocratic Oath|Hippocratic Oath]] even when he might risk capture or when it's someone he doesn't particularly like.
 
== ''[[Star Trek]]'' ==
* In the classic ''[[Star Trek: The Original Series]]'' episode, "Spectre of the Gun", Kirk becomes increasingly desperate to escape the surreal nightmare [[Death Trap]] he and his landing party are thrust in. However, when the sheriff suggests he ambush the Earps to murder them, Kirk becomes nearly hysterical that he cannot stoop that low regardless of how dire the situation is. However, after the party figures a way to beat the trap, Kirk keeps to that same principle to spare the defeated Earps and that act impresses the aliens to not only let Kirk's party go, but also open up relations with the Federation. Thus by keeping to his principles, Kirk pulls a real victory out of the affair instead of mere survival. The same thing happens in "Arena" when he refuses to finish off the Gorn. Although by that point the Gorn wasn't in any shape to take advantage.
** Ironically, the outcome of "Spectre of the Gun" was due to [[Executive Meddling]]. In the original script, Kirk ''does'' let pragmatism trump honor, and shoots Wyatt Earp in the back. The aliens release Kirk not because they're impressed by his principles, but because, having read his mind, they know he ''believes'' in honor, and conclude that for him to have violated his own principles, he must be insane, and therefore not culpable for his actions.
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** The idea was that it would be wrong because the newly individualized and presumably innocent Borg would also be killed. Also, Picard hoped that its individuality would spread through the collective, so that the Borg would no longer be enemies or would at least be a group that could be negotiated with. {{spoiler|And it worked, except only a part of the Collective was "infected" with individuality (implying that the other, more lethal option would have only taken out part of the Collective as well). Too bad Data's [[Evil Twin]] Lore manipulated them into becoming vicious conquerors.}}
* ''[[Star Trek: Deep Space Nine]]'' gives us the Jem'Hadar. They are programmed to obey the Vorta without question, even when they know better. In one particular instance, a bunch of half-dead Jem'Hadar walk right into a Federation ambush their Vorta sent them into, knowing beforehand he was doing it on purpose so they'd all die and he could defect, simply because they are bred to obey. This serves to make them surprisingly relatable in several episodes.
{{quote| Sisko: "Do you really want to give up your life for the 'order of things'?"<br />
Remata'Klan: "It is not my life to give up, Captain – and it never was." }}
** The Vorta are likewise bred to obey the Founders. While they never have so suicidal an opportunity to demonstrate this, their loyalty to the Founders is shown to trump reason on occasion.
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*** Even Kate Mulgrew admitted that Janeway was written very inconsistently from episode to episode, which includes her unreliable relationship with the Prime Directive.
** Janeway's first officer, Chakotay, at times exhibited this attitude as well; usually in confrontation with Janeway during one of the many instances where she ''was'' entirely willing to break the rules. Chakotay is probably one of the most consistent (if not well-known) examples of this trope, after [[Game of Thrones]]' Ned Stark.
 
* In ''[[Firefly]]'', Captain Malcolm Reynolds chooses to take in and shelter Simon and River Tam, despite the fact that having them on board increases the danger to his crew and actually puts all them in danger multiple times. When asked why he would do something so risky for people he barely knows when he seems like such a rational, cold-hearted bastard, he doesn't respond, tries to avoid answering altogether, or offers some flimsy excuse that everyone can see through quite clearly.
== Other works ==
** Though this trope applies once they've become part of his crew, his reason for offering that protection in the first place probably come down to a simple [[Take That]] against the Alliance.
* ''[[Game of Thrones]]'' has Eddard Stark embody this trope and it does him far more harm than good. His eldest son Robb also inherit it from him.
** [[The Movie|The Big Damn Movie]] shows this in one of its more powerful scenes: After River's psychotic rampage, and when Mal is confronted with every rational reason to leave them behind, he ''still'' chooses to protect them and fight for them.
* In [[Scorpion]] Walter O'Brian is ''always'' putting honor before reason and ''always'' trying to find a rational reason for it.
** Mal is still brutally pragmatic, though, especially when dealing with threats to [[Nakama|his crew.]] Case in point: him kicking Crow into the ship's engine after he declared they would meet again in "The Train Job," or when he decided to [[Why Don't Ya Just Shoot Him|shoot the Operative]] as soon as he said he was unarmed in ''Serenity''. That's what we like about Mal: he has honor, but not ''stupid'' honor."
** Or most times he does. On occasion, though, fighting for honor means Mal risking very likely death, which Inara once calls him on and points out how senseless it is. And, of course, much of his fighting against the Alliance (equally risky) probably IS an honor thing for him, including the less honorable criminal stuff (which is the only way he can justify it, and sometimes not even then).
** Mal does make it a point to help out people who are in dire straits, though; in "The Train Job," the moment he finds out the cargo he stole is medicine for the dying villagers he chooses to return it. When the local lawman remarks that people have a choice to make when they find out the details of a situation like theirs, Mal's only response is that he feels they ''don't'' have a choice at all.
** Even ''[[Heroic Sociopath|Jayne]]'' has a few instances of this. One particular example is in "War Stories," where he outright tells the rest of the crew that going to rescue Mal from Niska's army of thugs is insane and a suicide mission. Later on, as everyone is preparing to go on the rescue mission, Jayne appears, fully loaded with all of his guns and ready to do his part. At the surprised look of the rest of the crew, his only response is a confused "What?"
** Jayne's sense of honor showed through in its own way; after betraying Simon and River Tam to the feds in "Ariel" and having to bust them back out due to getting pinched right long with them, he pleads with Mal [[Treachery Cover-Up|not to let the others know about his dishonorable actions]], even while he was faced with his own death by being [[Thrown Out the Airlock]]. That's the only reason Mal spared him.
*** It's also worth noting that Jayne could have easily left both of them there to distract the Feds and make a clean getaway, but he still helps them escape.
*** Maybe he just didn't think of it.
** Simon also does this for River, and he strictly follows the [[Inconvenient Hippocratic Oath|Hippocratic Oath]] even when he might risk capture or when it's someone he doesn't particularly like.
* ''[[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]]'' tends to follow this trope when it comes to Buffy dealing with a human threat, at least until the Bringers (were they human?). She lets a werewolf hunter leave even though judging by the collection of teeth he's killed dozens of people to get werewolf pelts. She refuses to kill her friend Ford, who betrayed her, until after he becomes a vampire.
** Perhaps the most extreme case is the fifth season, when she has to choose between saving her sister or saving the universe. She threatens everyone with death if they go near her sister. Then she [[Take a Third Option|takes a third option]].
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*** Additionally, the Time War could have been so awful that the idea of annihilating the Daleks brings up horrible memories.
** One of his worst moments was in the new series, when he met the Sontarans, a race of cloned soldiers, whose one notable weakness is a vent in the back of their necks. It's in the back because Sontarans are not supposed to retreat, so it's a relatively safe place to put it. He has a bomb that can destroy the Sontaran ship and save the Earth. But he decides to beam up to the Sontaran ship WITH THE BOMB in order to give them a chance to surrender. Never mind that anyone with even the smallest knowledge about the Sontaran would know that the Sontarans don't surrender, the idea that the ship in question wouldn't gladly be destroyed to be able to defeat someone as famous and powerful as The Doctor (Not to mention, stop his occasional ruinings of their war effort) is absurd. In the end, another character had to sacrifice himself to save him. Way to go, Doctor.
* Helo on ''[[Battlestar Galactica Reimagined(2004 TV series)|Battlestar Galactica]]'', the fact that his wife Sharon is a Cylon makes his journey much tougher.
* In ''[[The Sarah Connor Chronicles]]'', which [[Canon Dis ContinuityDiscontinuity|tosses out]] the events of ''Terminator 3'', both John and Sarah try to stop Skynet with no deaths. Cameron and Derek Reese don't share the same sentiment, however. If killing someone will complete the mission and possibly stop Skynet, they'll kill them in a ''heartbeat''. This goes out the window at the start of the second season, when John is forced to witness a man attempting to rape his mother. [[Thou Shalt Not Kill]] comes to a crashing end when he breaks free. On the other hand, John refuses to destroy Cameron even after she goes berserk and tries to kill him. Everyone, even ''Cameron herself'' thinks that John should have destroyed her, but he refuses to, because he still trusts her.
* Subverted in ''[[The A-Team]]''. Even though the team usually fits the trope to a T, in one episode Hannibal secures the help of General Fullbright by promising to turn himself in if he assists him. Afterwards, Hannibal escapes and says "In war there are no promises; only strategy."
* Subversion in ''[[Rome]]'' where Anthony, who is besieged in his palace with the (very) pitiful remaints of his guard, counts on this trope and challenges Octavian, his sworn enemy and leader of the Roman forces, to a one-on-one duel, knowing that he is easily the superior warrior and brags that he alone is going to win the war. Octavian's answer is looking at his general-staff and asking: "Is he completely nuts???" Anthony rather stupidly assumed in his drug-addled state that Octavian would give up a supreme tactical advantage just to avoid looking like a coward, when even if Octavian cared about that he could just kill anyone who heard about it.
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** Michael Weston is a curious example of this. He lives among shady people and does not mind [[Combat Pragmatist|fighting dirty]]. Yet in a strange sort of way he always [[Knight in Sour Armor|retains a gentlemanly side]]. Even if he would never admit it himself.
* Duncan MacLeod in ''[[Highlander the Series]]'' is another prototype example for this trope. He would accept any challenge, no matter what the the odds, only to prove his honor. He even explained it to Methos in an episode:
{{quote| '''Duncan:''' Did you know Mencius?<br />
'''Methos:''' Student of Confucius, yeah.<br />
'''Duncan:''' "I dislike death, but there are things that I dislike more than death--"<br />
'''Methos:''' "--therefore there are occasions when I will not avoid danger." Death before dishonor. }}
** Actually justified considering Duncan is a 16th-century Highland Clansman when such ideals were very much the rule.
** And utterly averted in Methos himself, who only really follows this trope when it comes to his friends. This is illustrated in the episode "Chivalry", right after Duncan MacLeod has disarmed, then released, the episode's ''female'' bad guy, Kristin. As MacLeod starts walking away from Kristin, Methos steps forward.
{{quote| '''Kristin:''' "Who are you?"<br />
'''Methos:''' "A man born long before the age of chivalry." (waves his swordpoint toward her sword, which is on the ground next to her) "Pick it up." }}
* Prince Arthur in BBC's ''[[Merlin (TV series)|Merlin]]'' has demonstrated this trope repeatedly, as far back as his risking his life to save Merlin in 1X04, all the way up to {{spoiler|literally putting his neck on the line to keep his word to Morguse}} in late season 2.
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* [[George Clooney|Doug Ross]] on ''[[ER]]'' was driven to do what was right for children, regardless of the consequences to himself or his career. That's admirable, but he was also very short-sighted when it came to the consequences of his actions to his friends and colleagues, and eventually left the hospital in disgrace due to some very questionable decisions.
 
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{{reflist}}
[[Category:Honor Before Reason]]
[[Category:Live Action TV]]