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Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days/Headscratchers: Difference between revisions
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** Sora is pretty much the strongest out of all of them, his assistance was sort of a necessity. Plus DiZ probably still needed time to create that machine he wanted to use to contain Kingdom Hearts.
** They could have tried to. Roxas is rather strong when equipped with both keyblades, and he took out Saix with relative ease. Kingdom Hearts wasn't yet finished, so if he had uber!Riku on his side, it is plausible that he could have won. He would only be required to slash through buildings if Xemnas were able to enter Kingdom Hearts. The reason it didn't happen was that DiZ was pulling the strings. He essentially had Sora, Donald and Goofy captive, not to mention the only person able to fix him, so Riku and Mickey would obey him if it came down to conflict between them. As it stood, they were happy enough to follow him. As for DiZ himself: He hates Nobodies. Understandable in a way, being locked in darkness and all, but too eager to take vengeance on all Nobodies. Working WITH one would be too much to bear for him, even for taking down the Organisation.
*** He only took out
** They all wanted Sora back, is my personal interpretation. As far as they're concerned (except for Namine), Roxas is just a shallow shell of the guy who's not only their friend, but the one most capable of fighting and defeating the Organization. They had already wasted 300-some days trying to fix his memories, after all.
*** Not to mention how powerful Sora's ''Heart'' is, which Roxas doesn't have.
*** Because Sora is [[The Chosen One]], everyone's friend, and the protagonist. When it comes to bringing him back, nothing else matters; certainly not the lives of two Nobodies. There's a splendid, tragic bit of deconstruction to it all.
*** DiZ and Riku had no reason to think that Roxas was really that different from any of the other members in Organization XIII. Just because he can raise his voice isn't evidence to them that he actually feels emotions. All of the members can fake emotions without much trouble. As for Xion, Riku let Xion go and gave her a good deal of time to decide things for herself even though he knew Sora couldn't wake up without her disappearance.
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* How do Roxas's and Axel's backstories ''work'' without the presence of Xion? She was so very important to their lives, and yet she's gone - so what do they remember in the end? Are their memories concerning her just blanks? Have they been modified and rewritten? And for that matter, do Xemnas and Saix even remember creating her?
** They're probably rewritten, it's happened before in this series. And... the memories aren't gone. ''Chain of Memories'' states that memories can't be completely erased, they just get disconnected from the chain and fade away eventually.
*** Further theorization on this theory: From the way understood it, Xion was, by the end of the game, made up almost entirely of memories - essentially memories personified. Kingdom Hearts II kind of implied that Sora's memories being messed up worked both ways, everyone had forgotten about him until a short time before he woke up. If that's true, then by returning Sora's memories, the memories that made her up were broken apart and rearranged, so all the connections she had to others disappeared, and they forgot about her, [[Logic Bomb|if that makes any sense.]] Meanwhile, even if you don't buy into that, there's still Xion's own memories that have to be considered - probably hidden with all the memories of Castle Oblivion in Sora's heart, just waiting to be found again, especially if the BBS secret ending is telling the truth.
** They work, they just don't work as well. Their friendship existed even before Xion joined the group. As was shown, Axel treated her as a friend, but she was never as important to him as Roxas was. Axel wigging out like he did in KHII over Roxas makes a whole lot more sense than if Roxas was replaced by Xion during KHII.
*** Though potential problem: we're told not that she'll be destroyed and forgotten, but that she'll never have existed at all. So there never would have been a Xion to remember. Possibly anyway, the whole 'memories can never be truly forgotten' thing may still apply as those events both did and didn't take place.
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* How is it that "Ice Cream" only appears twice on the main page for this game?
** "Ice Cream" never ended up being related to that many tropes, it was just a object that showed up quite a lot.
* [[What Happened to the Mouse?|Whatever happened to that trainee that Hercules scouted?]]
** They fell into a [[Plot Hole]].
** In this series, it's probably [[Nightmare Fuel|better not to ask.]]
** He was still on his way when Roxas left, and had probably finished his training by the time Sora showed up. There was like a 6 day window. Phil can knock someone into shape in that time. And my money is on that trainee being Zidane...heck, Vivi is the closest we're going to get to seeing [[Final Fantasy IX]], so why not speculate?
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*** Keep in mind that they made a big deal of Herc always just missing him. This [[Fridge Brilliance|makes a lot of sense]] as a call back to BBS, considering how close Ven and Herc were, Herc would almost certainly have recognized him. In this vein, it can probably be assumed that Phil really doesn't remember Ven.
*** That doesn't explain that one scene where Hercules actually passed by Roxas casually. The Phil mentioned him immediately as Roxas was leaving. It probably wouldn't be that much trouble to go after him and say hello.
**** Related to the above; that's probably also would have been why Tinkerbel was the only one to have met Roxas...and Ventus. She probably recognized him too and was saying "Hey Ventus! Peter Pan's looking for you!"
* Okay, how exactly are "Nothing, Flowers, The Moon, Space, Illusions, and Time" elements? I understand Nothing given who it is, I mean look at the way he preached about it at the end of KHII, but the others are just weird. Plus how exactly does space make gravity somehow become intensified purely to prevent you from jumping without some other effect on you. I get how flowers messes up your eyes, pollen is painful. Illusions could reasonably make you think you're going right when you're going left, whatever. Time... makes your defense level go to one? Is there something I'm missing here that makes that make sense? As for the Moon, since when does (enter name of whoever is casting silence) yell anything about the Moon instead of "SILENCE". As for the believable elements with stupid effects, why does water drain your hp to heal enemies? As for Earth... did they run out of things to make it do, I mean come on, it halves your hp. A lot of enemies can do that anyway, even without help from some crazy element. Light, what is up with Light, it disables your minimap... in fact why didn't light get used for the blinding one and flowers get used for... anything that makes more sense than pollen burning your eyes out. (I understand the existence and the effects of everything else, so they don't bug me)
** First off, they're not really elements. "Attributes" would be a better term. Next, Time is stated to work in-game by rewinding your defense to level 1, Light can reasonably be assumed to short out a radar system based off of Nothingness (although it probably would have worked better as Blinding with Flowers doing Poison), and the idea with Moon is that it's so intimidating the enemy can't really speak... or something. You've got me on Water and Earth though.
** Time, as it pertains to Luxord, seems to be purposefully limited, so the rewinding deal makes a bit of sense. Light I figured is a take on blinding you to your environment, a la Zexion in [[
*** Well, the moon has no atmosphere; no air, so no sound. Alternatively, I can at least say that there's a precedent for linking the moon with silence. "[[Touhou Project|Silent Selene]]", specifically.
**** Its probably a call back to the berserk status restricting your ability to use magic of course without the added attack boost.Since the moon supposedly causes this effect they used it.
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** Because then they'd notice that there was a serial invader, and beef up defenses accordingly, making it harder to complete missions, and making Beast less likely to trust the [[Treacherous Advisor]] the Organization planned on sending him.
*** Roxas really isn't that mean. At that point in time he wasn't exactly a good guy but he certainly didn't go around hitting people on the head. Also he had standing orders to avoid detection.
* Why is Luxord sent with Roxas on most of(if not all of) the Wonderland Missions? IIRC, Luxord shows up in Port Royal in KH:II, so you'd think Luxord would be scouting the area out rather then wandering around Wonderland with Roxas, or that missions with Roxas would be sent with Lux to Port Royal such as he is with Xaldin to Beast's Castle and Demyx to Olympus.
** Several possible explanations, some storywise, some development possibilities. It's possible that Luxord was either investigating Port Royal himeslf and didn't need or want Roxas there. Will and the others remark on not having seen Heartless before so if they weren't there, he'd have no reason to go there when there weere plenty in Wonderland. Hell, maybe they hadn't even discovered it yet.
** Development wise, maybe they couldn't get it to look right, the fans or they didn't like it enough to be included, they wanted to use older worlds more to give it more of a KH I feel as it takes place earlier in the series than KH II.
** One fanfic explained it as he, as a gambler, loved the sheer unpredicability of the place, so he asked to go there. Also, there are a lot of cards there. Gambler's paradise I guess.
** Their work in Wonderland was pretty much done. The primary purpose there (as with Halloween Town and Agrabah, which likewise experienced no Organization interference in II) was to find a good place to put the devices. After that, Luxord moved on to Port Royal. It is likely that they found Wonderland too difficult for Sora to navigate and take out as much Heartless as possible, but they probably needed to put the device somewhere Sora had strong memories. They couldn't put it in Olympus Coliseum or Beast's Castle, as both had other purposes to fill. Atlantica hasn't seen Heartless since the first game, and its largely underwater nature might also make things difficult (Sora has no memories of the world that weren't underwater). Sora's memories of Neverland are all on the ship or Big Ben at that point; the ship was too risky to put the device, and they probaly hadn't figured out how to get to Big Ben at that point. Traverse Town and Monstro are probably too unreliable location-wise.
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*** Secret Entries. One from Axel's perspective mention that she sometimes appears to Roxas to him. Make of that what you will.
*** Actually, I'm pretty sure they said that Xion looked like Namine to him, and since they have different faces, I'm sure it was more that an different hair style thing.
* Wait. Lea saw Ven in BBS but Roxas' appearance never surprise Axel in the least? How does that work?
** "Hey, the new guy looks like that one kid I met eleven years ago for all of five minutes, ''amazing''!"
*** One would assume that because he's so obsessed with memories as Lea AND Axel, he'd recognize Roxas as at least being vaguely similar to Ven
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* I suppose this goes under Kingdom Hearts in general, but seeing as it's so prevalant in this one, why is it the Clock Tower in Twilight Town has no safety measures such as a railing or something similar at the top? I originally just wrote this off as Roxas and friends aren't allowed to be up there, but if they aren't, how do they get up there in the first place?
** The way to access the tower was probably locked. Roxas and Co. unlocked it with their Keyblade. Axel either jumped it or the left the gate open.
*** Fair enough, but like i said, this applies to Kingdom Hearts in general, how did Roxas get up there in the intro of KH:II with Hayner and the rest, Pre-Keyblade? Also, was i the only one expecting someone to fall off it during the course of the games? For a Dream Sequence, at the very least.
*** DiZ never bothered to program the lock into virtual Twilight Town?
*** ^I'd probably go with that one, since DiZ wanted to distract Roxas long enough to finish work on Sora, so he might as well make Roxas feel at home as possible.
* Why is it every scene with Xion switches whether her hood is on or not. I went through that 4-5 minute scene after you find her and Axel Roxas and Xion are eating ice cream and noticed it would switch to her having a hood on and her hood off every scene that showed her.
** It depends on {{spoiler|who's looking at her}}. When the camera perspective is 3rd person limited(Roxas) we see her the way ''he'' does, as a black-haired Kairi. When the camera perspective is 3rd person limited(anyone else), we see her the way they do, which is with the hood up. Situations where the camera focuses on the group as a whole seem to vary based on if focused on Roxas' reactions or the other guys' statements, the former fits to Roxas' perspective, the latter to others'. Its all a symptom of how {{spoiler|what you see of her depends on your personal perspective and connection; Roxas sees Kairi (and Axel eventually follows suit after hanging with Roxas long enough), most of the rest see an empty doll with no notable features, and Xigbar sees Ventus}}.
* What exactly is the Ruler of The Sky? And what's the deal with basically all of Pete's plans in this game? (And why didn't he recognise Roxas? I mean, he should have some memory of {{spoiler|one of the people who contributed to his imprisonment.}})
** [[Giant Space Flea From Nowhere]]
*** Actually, Minnie got him banished, not Ven.
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** Nobodies, even the inhuman ones, are intelligent, but being emotionless, have no true loyalty. When the higher ups blacklisted Roxas, they followed orders.
* So what's Saix and Axel's relationship? Were they best buds before they lost their hearts and sorta became like [[Tales of Vesperia|Yuri and Flynn]] after they became nobodies and Joined Organization XIII?
** It's heavily implied that they were friends - Saix actually knows Axel's true name (Lea).
*** New trailer for Birth By Sleep confirms they were friends back when they were Sora and co.'s age.
**** Symbolism-wise, the dualism of moon and sun.
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** What we see isn't what she ''is'', but a variable appearance based on Sora's memories; her true form is a featureless doll wearing only an Organization robe. We see her as a her because the most dominant Sora memories were of Kairi; either he was very fond of one time he saw her in heels, or the heels were part of whatever Nobody appearence-warp resulted in her black hair. In any case, the heels are as much of an illusion as her breasts and hair are.
*** What breasts? Chest pads appear to be standard issue as part of the Organization robe, since Roxas has the same features on his.
** Dude, it's fiction - in Fiction, women can actually function in high heels.
** Also since they come with the coat, which has magical properties, they quite possibly don't conform to normal physics.
** I'm amazed that on this wiki of Tropes nobody actually realised: Nobody or not, they are still affected by the Rule of Sexy and the Rule of Cool. Except because they have no emotions both rules are far more muted than usual. The latter is why the black coats have the unnecessary Silver trim on the beads and so forth. The former puts all the female members in heels as part of standard uniform. Xion's Default form is a blank doll Wearing the uniform, which took the standard female form once Xion started being "Her" and not "it". I think that explains it neatly. Alternatively, Xenmas made the heals part of the uniform because of his own memories of emotions, which probably tells us something about Xenahort's interests....
* Most, or all, of Org. 13 cannot feel emotions right? Then why, or how, are they so darn good at it? What's the use in even saying that? An [[Excuse Plot]]? They act almost the same, if not exactly the same, as everyone else. If not they're more emotional.
** I always compared it to when you learn a language. Even if you become fluent, if you, say, move away from the country where you used it ( fall to darkness), you forget most of it, but you still remember the words and phrases (emotions) you used the most (ie: you personality, or at least shreds of it).
** I thought it was already stated (and in-game, no less) that they're only ''acting'' out what they think they should be "feeling" based on their human memories.
*** They are. But why make them so good at it that they don't seem any different from anyone else? What's the point in that comment? Why at times does it even not seem like acting? It feels too realistic.
**** They've had ten years to practice.
***** According to Dream Drop Distance, nobodies are capable of regrowing hearts if they have been in said state for long enough, assuming this is correct, they're not completely emotionless, but their hearts aren't "advanced" enough for deeper feelings.
* Why does Axel get the Assasin nobodies if Marluxia is the "Graceful Assasin"?
** Because Axel is the Organization's assassin; Marluxia is the [[Grim Reaper]].
* Everything the organization does seem to make no sense to me. In order to create Kingdom Hearts they need hearts and the only who could collect those in the Organization were Roxas and Xion. Than what the hell are the point of any of the other Organization members? I mean you can argue that their similarities attract one another, but than Xilian tries to turn Beast into an Nobody. Why do make him an nobody? Thats the complete opposite of your goal. And also when they figure out that Xion will either absorb or be absorbed by Roxas, they first idea is to have the two fight each other, to see which one are better for their plans? Why, why get rid of one of the two members who can actually do anything towards your goal? Their both seem to be doing fine collecting hearts as two different people, why half the rate of the number of hearts you will receive? Also why did Saix order Axel kill Marluxia and Larxene? They stopped an rebellion just so they can rebel? Why the hell don't they just join forces? Another thing, in KH2, why did the Organization line up to get stabbed by Sora? I can see that they fought him for at least some reason in KH:COM, but in KH2, there was no purpose. The best strategy at that point was to just send more heartless at him. More Dead Heartless = More Hearts, More Dead Nobodies = jacksh*t. The only logical explanation I can think of is that maybe they were trying to get Roxas back, but that's a terrible idea after 358/2 days, its not like he won't have his memories this time around, the only reason that happen before was because Sora came back to life, something that probably wouldn't happen again. If they took Sora's heart all that would result would be an angry Roxas, and than what? Literally not appear in front of the guy at all is a wonderful idea. One last thing, if a nobody leaves the organization, why kill him? I understand Roxas, as they really need him. But its hinted that anyone who leaves, dies, but the as I pointed out before, none of the other organization members are useful to they're goal at all.
** Killing Heartless for hearts isn't all they do, you know. They multiple Organization members facilitate the spreading of Heartless so that Keyblade wielders can kill them. Plus, a huge amount of recon is required for their operations, along with other various jobs, such as when the devices were placed. Turning Beast into a Nobody would create a Heartless, probably a strong one, which they could then get Sora to kill in order to add to Kingdom hearts. As for Roxas and Xion? Remember, they couldn't exist at the same time. As Xion grew stronger, Roxas grew weaker. One was going to be erased no matter what the Organization did. So, they wanted to make sure they kept the stronger one. Why did Axel and Saix kill the rebels? Well, first of all, it's never entirely clear whether Saix cares about rebelling against the Organization anymore. Second, just because they all wanted to rebel doesn't mean that they wanted to share power or even deal with each other if they succeeded. The enemy of your enemy isn't always your friend. Why did they attack Sora? They ''didn't'' attack Sora. Sora attacked ''them'' (now, before I continue, I want to make it clear that I am not one of those fans who believe that Sora is a [[Jerkass]] who was viciously slaughtering the [[Draco in Leather Pants|poor, poor Organization members who just wanted hearts]]). There was no indication that they would kill Sora, just fight him back long enough so that they could go one with their goals.
** It's also revealed in Dream Drop Distance that the Organization was meant to be used as vessels for different pieces of Xehanorts heart, so it looks like Xemnas was just keeping them all busy.
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** Twilight Town experiences perpetual Dusk-Dawn. People would probably have had set curfews for "sleep" and didn't notice the Heartless, maybe the Organization sends mission during a world's nighttime?
* This is something about Xion except it's a different nature. When Roxas was {{spoiler|fighting her in her final form}}, did nobody in Twilight town look up and notice that there's a {{spoiler|''bigass'' Sora-wannabe in armour floating ''right'' in front of the train station with someone in black running back and forth attacking it?! And did nobody notice her attacks, either?}} I can understand if maybe {{spoiler|They forgot because Xion was unofficially erased from everyone's memory}}, but wouldn't they remember seeing {{spoiler|someone in black running up in the air swinging something at nobody?}} I can understand why people didn't notice {{spoiler|The first three forms}} because they were in out-of-the-way locations, but that's in public...does Twilight Town have some kind of [[Sunnydale Syndrome]] going on?
** Giant monsters that eat people's hearts are commonplace in Twilight Town. I'm betting the Monster Alarm went off and sent people scurrying for cover. Remember, only a few days prior a freaking DUSTFLYER was at the same station.
* Okay, there's one thing that just bugs me a lot. There's one mission in Twilight Town where you chase who you initially think to be Riku in an Organization XIII cloak, occasionally whacking the mysterious figure with your Keyblade when it stops. After the mission (and note you HAVE to hit the figure, and quite a few times at that) it's revealed that you've actually been chasing Xion. The first thing Roxas does is exclaim "Xion!" in a happy tone. Now... Am I the only one who thinks he should have been either apologising, horrified or both that he was actually ''beating the crap out of her'' only seconds before? I mean, I reiterate you are REQUIRED to hit the figure multiple times, and yet Roxas seems to blatantly ignore that he's just been whacking the hell out of one of his best friends unknowingly with his Keyblade. I was expecting a sort of "Oh my god... I had no idea it was you, I'm so sorry!" line or something in the cutscene, not a "Xion, I'm so glad you're okay!".
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** Not technically game canon, but in the official KH Days novel he talks about how that method seems "more fit for an escapee." Guess he wanted to go out with a bang?
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