Lyrical Nanoha/Headscratchers: Difference between revisions

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*** Plus, you know, it was a dream and all.

*** Alicia being shorter and younger makes some sense in the dream. Fate is Alicia's clone. All happy childhood memories Fate has, are in fact Alicia's memories, which Precia copy/pasted into Fate's mind. Fate knows this before the dream starts. Alicia does not have any memories in which she is wiser, taller or looks more mature than Fate, because she died before she reached Fate's apparent age. The [[Lotus Eater Machine]] merely reproduces the way Fate imagines and remembers Alicia to be.

** Judging from their dialogue under the tree, I think the ''point'' was that it wasn't internally consistent (note that Alicia also ''acts'' younger). It [[~~Bellisarios~~ Maxim|didn't have to matter]], but Fate chose to [[Pull the Thread]]. (I do wonder what would've been said if Fate had mentioned Nanoha.)

** Judging from their dialogue under the tree, I think the ''point'' was that it wasn't internally consistent (note that Alicia also ''acts'' younger). It [[Bellisario's Maxim|didn't have to matter]], but Fate chose to [[Pull the Thread]]. (I do wonder what would've been said if Fate had mentioned Nanoha.)

** It's possible that Fate was created at the age when Alicia died (since Zest's clone looks the same as he does around 8 years since his death), and aged somewhat since then, whereas Alicia came into Fate's dream without having aged. There are also some inconsistent aspects, like Linith and Arf existing at the same time as Alicia, but part of this is what Fate would subconsciously consider ideal (not only is Precia kind, but she also gets along with Arf).

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**** It's explicitly stated that no one died in the current Book of Darkness case (although people presumably died in the past ones, especially Clyde Harlaown).

*** It can't be proven that the Numbers killed anyone in their attacks on the Einherjar installations, nor that the mages the Wolkenritter attacked were killed for their linker cores. I just rewatched the Einherjar attack scene a minute ago; none of the mages present are even bleeding, much less sporting serious wounds. "Knocked out and on the ground" does not automatically equate with "dead".

*** The Wolkenritter killed many of those large monsters on various uninhabited planets, which [[Captain Obvious|take much more punishment than a weak little human]]. Magic is clearly capable of killing things much more physically powerful than people. MGLN's avoidance of really killing off anyone (even the [[Redshirt Army]] clerks of the TSAB don't die conclusively) comes across as lame as when jRPG monsters just [[Non Lethal KO|"knock out"]] the player characters. Considering how much the violence was amped up in ''[[Striker S (Anime)|Striker S]]'' I was somewhat annoyed that it seemed to be very inconsistent. Plus, [[Hot Blooded|Vita]] really should have [[Heroic Sacrifice|died]] in the Saint's Cradle.

*** The Wolkenritter killed many of those large monsters on various uninhabited planets, which [[Captain Obvious|take much more punishment than a weak little human]]. Magic is clearly capable of killing things much more physically powerful than people. MGLN's avoidance of really killing off anyone (even the [[Redshirt Army]] clerks of the TSAB don't die conclusively) comes across as lame as when jRPG monsters just [[Non-Lethal KO|"knock out"]] the player characters. Considering how much the violence was amped up in ''[[Striker S (Anime)|Striker S]]'' I was somewhat annoyed that it seemed to be very inconsistent. Plus, [[Hot Blooded|Vita]] really should have [[Heroic Sacrifice|died]] in the Saint's Cradle.

*** Magic can kill people the reason the reason we never see Midchildan magic kill anyone is because the targets are well protected. First, consider what happened when Vice accidentally shot his sister in the eye. Now what would of happen of she had been hit with Starlight Breaker? She would have died.

**** Also, don't forget that there is a specific type of magic that is nonlethal, which Nanoha is explicitly said to be a master at.

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* The AEC weapons do not make sense for Vita and Signum. Both of them use Devices that are recognizeably and used like non-Device weapons. Magic is not necessary and not often used for attacking an opponent by either one; Vita inflicts blunt force trauma with a hammer and Signum cuts with a blade. The anti-magic method used by the Huckebein offers no protection against a purely physical effect like a blade or hammer to the head. Furthermore, just to prove the point, Signum actually came very close to killing Cypha with Laevatein! There was nothing wrong with either of their existing weapons, and giving them AEC ones is wasteful.

** I know how you feel, but there are [[So Last Season|important]] [[Mid Season Upgrade|reasons]] for the Armed Devices to be replaced, apparently the Huckebein's anti-magic affects their durability somehow and also they have really tough bodies(that can be even tougher when they "react"), supposedly Cypha's toughness would allow her to stop cold Signum but she cuts trough her anyway severely damaging Laevateinn in the process and then attacks again detroying her own sword completely(it says something when you destroy your own weapon with the sheer force of your attacks). Supposedly neither inteligent, storage or armed devices stand a chance against a reacted Eclipse Driver, still don't explain why Subaru's Revolver Knuckle(an armed device) don't get replaced, probably because is less prone to breaking because is uses blunt force instead of cutting, but then there's Graf Eisen that also uses blunt force(far greater than Revolver Knuckle) but gets sended to rest in favor of the AEC War Hammer. I'll think the only thing Signum needs to kick Cypha's butt to the next Tuesday is a sword that don't breaks(Cypha defeated her because she's immune to her attacks, but showed to be pretty unable to stop Signum from hitting her, she on the other hand is only able to land a hit after Signum gets disarmed).

** I know how you feel, but there are [[So Last Season|important]] [[Mid-Season Upgrade|reasons]] for the Armed Devices to be replaced, apparently the Huckebein's anti-magic affects their durability somehow and also they have really tough bodies(that can be even tougher when they "react"), supposedly Cypha's toughness would allow her to stop cold Signum but she cuts trough her anyway severely damaging Laevateinn in the process and then attacks again detroying her own sword completely(it says something when you destroy your own weapon with the sheer force of your attacks). Supposedly neither inteligent, storage or armed devices stand a chance against a reacted Eclipse Driver, still don't explain why Subaru's Revolver Knuckle(an armed device) don't get replaced, probably because is less prone to breaking because is uses blunt force instead of cutting, but then there's Graf Eisen that also uses blunt force(far greater than Revolver Knuckle) but gets sended to rest in favor of the AEC War Hammer. I'll think the only thing Signum needs to kick Cypha's butt to the next Tuesday is a sword that don't breaks(Cypha defeated her because she's immune to her attacks, but showed to be pretty unable to stop Signum from hitting her, she on the other hand is only able to land a hit after Signum gets disarmed).

** The above theory is bullshit because the Huckbein have no resistance to physical weapons beyond what a barrier jacket would provide; if they did, there wouldn't be much point to using mass weapons against them now, would there? There's a simpler reason for the upgrades that doesn't rely on bashing the story or using [[Mid Season Upgrade]] as justification for it; it's because we've been misunderstanding exactly how devices are constructed. I think it's a common belief that devices are completely mechanical constructs composed of magically-enhanced parts, but I have an alternative theory: the devices are composed of several moving parts and internal components like the cartridge system and the AI cores, which are contained in a chassis made of magical matter, like the stuff Vita makes her Swallow Fliers out of. This is why devices can be repaired with spells like Fate's Recovery technique; so long as the internal components are unharmed, a device's chassis can be broken and repaired over and over again if necessary because the mage can simply recreate the matter used to form the device. The downside of this is that magical matter is created out of linked mana, which makes it vulnerable to cancelation by the Huckbein's Zero Effect. Thus, the Huckbein aren't immune to ''physical weapons'', they're immune to ''physical weapons made of magic''.

** The above theory is bullshit because the Huckbein have no resistance to physical weapons beyond what a barrier jacket would provide; if they did, there wouldn't be much point to using mass weapons against them now, would there? There's a simpler reason for the upgrades that doesn't rely on bashing the story or using [[Mid-Season Upgrade]] as justification for it; it's because we've been misunderstanding exactly how devices are constructed. I think it's a common belief that devices are completely mechanical constructs composed of magically-enhanced parts, but I have an alternative theory: the devices are composed of several moving parts and internal components like the cartridge system and the AI cores, which are contained in a chassis made of magical matter, like the stuff Vita makes her Swallow Fliers out of. This is why devices can be repaired with spells like Fate's Recovery technique; so long as the internal components are unharmed, a device's chassis can be broken and repaired over and over again if necessary because the mage can simply recreate the matter used to form the device. The downside of this is that magical matter is created out of linked mana, which makes it vulnerable to cancelation by the Huckbein's Zero Effect. Thus, the Huckbein aren't immune to ''physical weapons'', they're immune to ''physical weapons made of magic''.

** That's not confirmed yet, also the AEC equipement failed to do significant ''lasting'' damage to anyone of the Huckebeins so far(this is even pointed out recently by Fortis, he ackowledges Nanoha's Fortress Mode notorious power but also states that is useless because an infected person can regenerate any harm done to him anyway), by the moment the only benefit the AEC gives to team Hayate is the possibility to actually fight back without getting all their attacks cancelled but an effective method to actually ''defeat'' one of them is still yet to see. About the "Toughness" this is pointed out quickly by Signum herself(telling to Agito that it feels like if she's just hitted something really hard), also Zero Effect cancel out any magically linked construct on contact, Laevatein damages only after Signum connects a successful, poweful hit, and when Cypha breaks it, the once mighty belkan sword breaks into various solid fragments. We see how zero effect works by seeing Cypha nullifyng Agito's multi-fireball spell, if devices we're so easily to "dispell" Laevatein will just have dissapeared instead of breaking(and also doesen't explain why Revolver Knuckle, again an Armed Device, is still used if devices are supposedly easy targets for the Hucks). My complementing theory is that maybe Devices are constructed from certain physical material and get their durability and resistance enhaced by magic, then Zero Effect dispell said enhacing and the device gets reduced to a simple staff/weapon made of common materials(again, Cypha explicity states that bladed weapons are also useless against them). By conclusion, even if the huckebein aren't totally immune to physical attacks they're still very darn tough and also have their ridiculously powerfull [[Healing Factor|regenerative powers]] if said toughness isn't enough.

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** I'll go with the guessing that the ban cover "all" mass-basewd weaponary. Otherwise it will be hard to explain why on earth the TSAB send a bunch of elite mages with [[Flawed Prototype|faulty equipement]] against the Huckebein just to get their asses kicked when it will be much more easily to simply send a massive group of corps armed with non-magical machine guns and grenade launchers.

* Why is Nanoha's attack on Teana during the "White Devil Incident" merely considered no more than a slight overreaction by the characters? It's a direct assault on Teana's person, even if the [[Non Lethal KO|stun-setting]] on Nanoha's spell ensures that instead of bone breakage or internal bleeding, Teana only spends ''five hours lying unconscious in a hospital bed'' and has to be removed from combat readiness status for a while after waking up due to the strain Nanoha's spell put on her body. Nanoha's actions weren't even necessary from a discipline standpoint, either. Stripping Teana of her weapons, mission clearance, and practice authorization while reducing meal- and rec-time while increasing chores for two weeks would have made for a miserable half a month without damaging the working relationship between Nanoha and Teana. It also wouldn't have put Teana out of action in the event of an emergency.

* Why is Nanoha's attack on Teana during the "White Devil Incident" merely considered no more than a slight overreaction by the characters? It's a direct assault on Teana's person, even if the [[Non-Lethal KO|stun-setting]] on Nanoha's spell ensures that instead of bone breakage or internal bleeding, Teana only spends ''five hours lying unconscious in a hospital bed'' and has to be removed from combat readiness status for a while after waking up due to the strain Nanoha's spell put on her body. Nanoha's actions weren't even necessary from a discipline standpoint, either. Stripping Teana of her weapons, mission clearance, and practice authorization while reducing meal- and rec-time while increasing chores for two weeks would have made for a miserable half a month without damaging the working relationship between Nanoha and Teana. It also wouldn't have put Teana out of action in the event of an emergency.

** First off, Teana wasn't out for so long because of Nanoha's attack, she was out for so long because she was completely exhausted from over-training. She badly needed sleep, and her body took the first opportunity it had to get it. Also, I don't think they removed from combat readiness because she was recovering, but because they didn't think they could fully trust her after the extremes she went to in the last mission (her attitude upon hearing she was grounded certainly didn't help her case). In any case, Nanoha's... "correction" served several purposes: not only did it knock Teana out when she was clearly not in a sound state of mind, it also showed Teana just how effective shooting magic was. This was a point Nanoha wanted to make to Teana, since Teana was doubting the effectiveness of her own shooting magic, and that was driving her to over-work, something which Nanoha really does not want to see happen. She wasn't necessarily trying to punish Teana per se, she was trying to show Teana that she doesn't ''need'' to overwork herself... just be more patient and the strength she wants will come. Heavy-handed? Maybe, but that's Nanoha for you.

*** Nanoha mentions that Teana's physical and magical condition are less than optimal.