Magic A Is Magic A: Difference between revisions

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{{trope}}
{{trope}}
[[File:MagicAIsMagicA_7655.png|link=El Goonish Shive (Webcomic)|right|Even [[Supernatural Martial Arts]] is part of this magic system.]]
[[File:MagicAIsMagicA_7655.png|link=El Goonish Shive (Webcomic)|frame|Even [[Supernatural Martial Arts]] is part of this magic system.]]




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It's possible to break consistency without damaging the [[Willing Suspension of Disbelief]]. It takes work- basically, the work of making a believable case that the violation did not happen out of nowhere. [[Lampshade Hanging|One way is to have the characters themselves notice the inconsistency]]; this only reinforces that it ''is'' unusual and there might be an [[All There in the Manual|explanation for it somewhere]]. If none ever ends up being offered, at least it relegates a glaring [[Plot Hole]] to mere [[Fridge Logic]]. After all, if Magic is [[Sufficiently Analyzed Magic|actually like]] [[Fantastic Science|science]], then the theory will likely be wrong sometimes and will have to be revised in the same way earth science.
It's possible to break consistency without damaging the [[Willing Suspension of Disbelief]]. It takes work- basically, the work of making a believable case that the violation did not happen out of nowhere. [[Lampshade Hanging|One way is to have the characters themselves notice the inconsistency]]; this only reinforces that it ''is'' unusual and there might be an [[All There in the Manual|explanation for it somewhere]]. If none ever ends up being offered, at least it relegates a glaring [[Plot Hole]] to mere [[Fridge Logic]]. After all, if Magic is [[Sufficiently Analyzed Magic|actually like]] [[Fantastic Science|science]], then the theory will likely be wrong sometimes and will have to be revised in the same way earth science.


This trope derives its name from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_identity Aristotle's Law of Identity], which claims that "[[Shaped Like Itself|a thing and itself are the same thing]]" and marks [[Tropes Are Not Bad|an important contribution]] of [[Captain Obvious]] to modern rational discourse. The title references the law's well-known symbolic formulation, "A = A", which is probably due to German mathematician and philosopher Gottfried Leibniz.
This trope derives its name from [[wikipedia:Law of identity|Aristotle's Law of Identity]], which claims that "[[Shaped Like Itself|a thing and itself are the same thing]]" and marks [[Tropes Are Not Bad|an important contribution]] of [[Captain Obvious]] to modern rational discourse. The title references the law's well-known symbolic formulation, "A = A", which is probably due to German mathematician and philosopher Gottfried Leibniz.


Related to [[Wrong Context Magic]], when someone explicitly has the ability to circumvent it. See also [[Beyond the Impossible]] where internal logic is broken for some reason.
Related to [[Wrong-Context Magic]], when someone explicitly has the ability to circumvent it. See also [[Beyond the Impossible]] where internal logic is broken for some reason.


See also [[Minovsky Physics]], which is a fictional physics with extremely detailed laws that makes it look like real physics, as well as the [[Cool of Rule]]. Contrast [[New Rules As the Plot Demands]] and [[How Unscientific]]; also contrast [[Gameplay and Story Segregation]], which is an ''entire category'' of notoriously common [[Video Game]] violations of this trope.
See also [[Minovsky Physics]], which is a fictional physics with extremely detailed laws that makes it look like real physics, as well as the [[Cool of Rule]]. Contrast [[New Rules As the Plot Demands]] and [[How Unscientific]]; also contrast [[Gameplay and Story Segregation]], which is an ''entire category'' of notoriously common [[Video Game]] violations of this trope.
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** Any immortal who consumes another [[You Will Be Assimilated|attains all of their knowledge and memories (including muscle memory)]].
** Any immortal who consumes another [[You Will Be Assimilated|attains all of their knowledge and memories (including muscle memory)]].
** No false names in the presence of other immortals.
** No false names in the presence of other immortals.
* ''[[Needless]]'': One Needless, one Fragment. It's consistent throughout the story, with certain Fragments can imitate the effect of other Fragments to some extent, i.e. [[Wrench Wench|Kana]]'s [[Schizo Tech|Flamethrower]] is as good as the power of a [[Playing With Fire|Fire Needless]]. {{spoiler|Of course, this rule is so totally broken by the hero and the [[Big Bad]].}}
* ''[[Needless]]'': One Needless, one Fragment. It's consistent throughout the story, with certain Fragments can imitate the effect of other Fragments to some extent, i.e. [[Wrench Wench|Kana]]'s [[Schizo-Tech|Flamethrower]] is as good as the power of a [[Playing With Fire|Fire Needless]]. {{spoiler|Of course, this rule is so totally broken by the hero and the [[Big Bad]].}}
** {{spoiler|Partly explained by their fragment being the ability to learn others' fragments.}} Which is rather broken in itself.
** {{spoiler|Partly explained by their fragment being the ability to learn others' fragments.}} Which is rather broken in itself.
* Each episode of ''[[Gun Buster]]'' actually has a little "science lesson" short that explains a certain aspect of the show's universe, laying out the physics behind it.
* Each episode of ''[[Gun Buster]]'' actually has a little "science lesson" short that explains a certain aspect of the show's universe, laying out the physics behind it.
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** But note there are other forms of magic -- Perrin's wolf powers, Min's viewings, Hurin's sniffing -- that don't fit within the rules and confuse the "normal magic" users. Not to mention the whole Horn of Valere thing.
** But note there are other forms of magic -- Perrin's wolf powers, Min's viewings, Hurin's sniffing -- that don't fit within the rules and confuse the "normal magic" users. Not to mention the whole Horn of Valere thing.
** It's further complicated by the fact that the setting is full of [[Lost Technology]], [[Poor Communication Kills]] and [[Culture Clash|Culture Clashes]], and is set [[After the End|after multiple different apocalypses]]. When something weird pops up, it's anyone's guess whether it seems completely impossible to the current viewpoint character but would be well-known and understood by someone from another country, was commonplace during the Age of Legends and has been forgotten by the present day, or has truly never been seen before by anyone in the world since the last Third Age.
** It's further complicated by the fact that the setting is full of [[Lost Technology]], [[Poor Communication Kills]] and [[Culture Clash|Culture Clashes]], and is set [[After the End|after multiple different apocalypses]]. When something weird pops up, it's anyone's guess whether it seems completely impossible to the current viewpoint character but would be well-known and understood by someone from another country, was commonplace during the Age of Legends and has been forgotten by the present day, or has truly never been seen before by anyone in the world since the last Third Age.
* [[Brandon Sanderson|Brandon Sanderson's]] magic systems are regulated to the point of being almost ''science''. In one case, once the series was over and only about half the magic system was revealed, fans were able to ''correctly determine the rest of the system'', based on the science of the parts that had been revealed. Sanderson ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanderson%27s_First_Law owns]'' this trope.
* [[Brandon Sanderson|Brandon Sanderson's]] magic systems are regulated to the point of being almost ''science''. In one case, once the series was over and only about half the magic system was revealed, fans were able to ''correctly determine the rest of the system'', based on the science of the parts that had been revealed. Sanderson ''[[wikipedia:Sandersonchr(27)s First Law|owns]]'' this trope.
** You can find his essay on the subject [http://brandonsanderson.com/article/40/Sandersons-First-Law here.]
** You can find his essay on the subject [http://brandonsanderson.com/article/40/Sandersons-First-Law here.]
* One-upping that, the "magic" in Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman's ''[[Death Gate]]'' series ''is'' (pseudo)science, complete with a [[Techno Babble]]--filled appendix describing how all of it works.
* One-upping that, the "magic" in Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman's ''[[Death Gate]]'' series ''is'' (pseudo)science, complete with a [[Techno Babble]]--filled appendix describing how all of it works.
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* In ''[[The Name of the Wind]]'', magic is surprisingly mundane and consistent. The most common type, sympathy, follows (''really'' follows) the law of conservation of energy. For example, if you bound two coins, lifting one would lift both, but it would weigh like both, not accounting for the loss of energy (the more similar, the less energy lost). One can use an outside energy source, though (like, say, using a fire's power to move an iron wheel). Sygaldry is sympathy, but based on written runes, and Knacks are individual and very mundane skills (always getting sevens when rolling dice, growing very large fruits). Lastly, [[I Know Your True Name|Naming]] is barely explained, but it's rare, far more powerful than sympathy, and described as "fairy tale magic". There is also the even rarer Fae magic, grammarie and glamourie, the art of making things BE, versus making things SEEM.
* In ''[[The Name of the Wind]]'', magic is surprisingly mundane and consistent. The most common type, sympathy, follows (''really'' follows) the law of conservation of energy. For example, if you bound two coins, lifting one would lift both, but it would weigh like both, not accounting for the loss of energy (the more similar, the less energy lost). One can use an outside energy source, though (like, say, using a fire's power to move an iron wheel). Sygaldry is sympathy, but based on written runes, and Knacks are individual and very mundane skills (always getting sevens when rolling dice, growing very large fruits). Lastly, [[I Know Your True Name|Naming]] is barely explained, but it's rare, far more powerful than sympathy, and described as "fairy tale magic". There is also the even rarer Fae magic, grammarie and glamourie, the art of making things BE, versus making things SEEM.
* Subverted in the ''[[Collegia Magica (Literature)|Collegia Magica]]'' trilogy by [[Carol Berg]], in that this is certainly how it is ''taught''...whether the true nature of magic follows this trope or not is a different matter.
* Subverted in the ''[[Collegia Magica (Literature)|Collegia Magica]]'' trilogy by [[Carol Berg]], in that this is certainly how it is ''taught''...whether the true nature of magic follows this trope or not is a different matter.
* Superpowers in [[The Grimnoir Chronicles]] books fall on a grid that is one part [http://www.profantasy.com/rpgmaps/?p=62 The Quade Diagram] and one part ROYGBIV. All supers start out with a single power which either comes from one part of the grid or the overlapping of two or more parts. In turn, the [[Geometric Magic|kanji]] [[Power Tattoo|brands]] are two-dimensional [[Locards Theory|sympathetic]] representations of whichever part(s) of the grid the user wishes to draw power from.
* Superpowers in [[The Grimnoir Chronicles]] books fall on a grid that is one part [http://www.profantasy.com/rpgmaps/?p=62 The Quade Diagram] and one part ROYGBIV. All supers start out with a single power which either comes from one part of the grid or the overlapping of two or more parts. In turn, the [[Geometric Magic|kanji]] [[Power Tattoo|brands]] are two-dimensional [[Locard's Theory|sympathetic]] representations of whichever part(s) of the grid the user wishes to draw power from.
* Averted in the [[Shannara]] series, where it is made very clear over and over that magic is highly unstable and unpredictable, prone to shifting over time from one form to another. Even well known and fairly well understood magics can occasionally have unforseen effects.
* Averted in the [[Shannara]] series, where it is made very clear over and over that magic is highly unstable and unpredictable, prone to shifting over time from one form to another. Even well known and fairly well understood magics can occasionally have unforseen effects.
* In the [[Time Scout (Literature)|Time Scout]] series, there are a few rules to time travel that aren't broken.
* In the [[Time Scout (Literature)|Time Scout]] series, there are a few rules to time travel that aren't broken.
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** '''Magicians''' can both cast spells and summon spirits. The exact style and trappings of each magician's talents varies from one practitioner to the next, but the two most common catchall terms are [[Hermetic Magic|hermetic mages]] and [[Clap Your Hands If You Believe|shamans]]. It should be noted that, despite the names, there's no arcane/divine magic split; anyone capable of sorcery can learn and use any spell.
** '''Magicians''' can both cast spells and summon spirits. The exact style and trappings of each magician's talents varies from one practitioner to the next, but the two most common catchall terms are [[Hermetic Magic|hermetic mages]] and [[Clap Your Hands If You Believe|shamans]]. It should be noted that, despite the names, there's no arcane/divine magic split; anyone capable of sorcery can learn and use any spell.
* The indie superpowered-sleuth system Mutant City Blues elevates this to new heights. Sure, there are mutants in the setting, and they can fly, shoot assorted kinds of energy bolts, read minds and even steal each other's powers. All these powers, however, are meticulously catalogued in the so-called Quade Diagram which provides solid insight about what powers can concievably coexist in a person. Some, like supernatural analytical abilities and remote control of electronic devices, are very *close* so that the person posessing one can be routinely assumed to posess another. Others, say, the ability to fly and become invisible, are so far apart in the chart that it is impossible for one man to have both (without breaking the setting and/or having Infinite Experience Points). This diagram, along with more conventional investigative methods, makes the task of solving "Heightened" crimes more of a usual analytical exercise and almost none of the "whoever got more control of The Force" challenge common for less defined supernatural settings.
* The indie superpowered-sleuth system Mutant City Blues elevates this to new heights. Sure, there are mutants in the setting, and they can fly, shoot assorted kinds of energy bolts, read minds and even steal each other's powers. All these powers, however, are meticulously catalogued in the so-called Quade Diagram which provides solid insight about what powers can concievably coexist in a person. Some, like supernatural analytical abilities and remote control of electronic devices, are very *close* so that the person posessing one can be routinely assumed to posess another. Others, say, the ability to fly and become invisible, are so far apart in the chart that it is impossible for one man to have both (without breaking the setting and/or having Infinite Experience Points). This diagram, along with more conventional investigative methods, makes the task of solving "Heightened" crimes more of a usual analytical exercise and almost none of the "whoever got more control of The Force" challenge common for less defined supernatural settings.
* [[GURPS]] Thaumatology is a sourcebook dedicated entirely to making up bizarre, yet internally consistent, magic systems. GURPS ''also'' has a completely separate system for "psionics," which can be the same exact force as magic, but which are administered in the form of traits specific to a given character, rather than general rules that all magic users have to follow. That's where you go for [[Wrong Context Magic]].
* [[GURPS]] Thaumatology is a sourcebook dedicated entirely to making up bizarre, yet internally consistent, magic systems. GURPS ''also'' has a completely separate system for "psionics," which can be the same exact force as magic, but which are administered in the form of traits specific to a given character, rather than general rules that all magic users have to follow. That's where you go for [[Wrong-Context Magic]].
* ''[[Warhammer 40000]]'' has a very simple magic (all right, 'psychic powers') system allowing various psykers to do different things (mostly attacks or buffs), though they all have a chance of suffering the [[Mind Rape|consequences]].
* ''[[Warhammer 40000]]'' has a very simple magic (all right, 'psychic powers') system allowing various psykers to do different things (mostly attacks or buffs), though they all have a chance of suffering the [[Mind Rape|consequences]].
** ''[[Warhammer Fantasy]]'' has a more detailed system that has most people drawing on a collective library of spells, though Lizardmen, Chaos, Undead, Orcs and Goblins, High Elves, and Dark Elves all have access to an extra group of spells.
** ''[[Warhammer Fantasy]]'' has a more detailed system that has most people drawing on a collective library of spells, though Lizardmen, Chaos, Undead, Orcs and Goblins, High Elves, and Dark Elves all have access to an extra group of spells.
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[[Category:Magic and Powers]]
[[Category:Magic and Powers]]
[[Category:Urban Fantasy Tropes]]
[[Category:Urban Fantasy Tropes]]
[[Category:Magic A Is Magic A]]
[[Category:Magic A Is Magic A]][[Category:Pages with comment tags]]
[[Category:Trope]][[Category:Pages with comment tags]]