Measuring the Marigolds: Difference between revisions

no edit summary
mNo edit summary
No edit summary
 
(13 intermediate revisions by 7 users not shown)
Line 1:
{{trope}}
[[File:abstrusegooseworldview_519abstrusegooseworldview 519.png|frame|link=http://abstrusegoose.com/275|Lots of people think scientists view the world this way.]]
 
{{quote|''Inchworm, Inchworm,
''[[Trope Namer|Measuring the Marigolds,]]
''You and your arithmetic,
''Will certainly go far.<br />
''Inchworm, Inchworm,
''[[Title Drop|Measuring the Marigolds]],
''Seems to me you'd stop and see,
''How beautiful they are.''|'''Frank Loesser''', "The Inch Worm", from the musical ''Hans Christian Anderson''}}
|'''Frank Loesser''', "The Inch Worm", from the musical ''Hans Christian Anderson''}}
 
It's a somewhat popular opinion that those who analyze things for a living are boring and see life as numbers instead of an amazing thing. Opponents of certain types of sciences are quick to say that this is the result of trying to know too much, a reduction of the divine to the mundane. Or it's simply because [[Everybody Hates Mathematics]], thus adding mathematics to every natural phenomenon interferes with beauty.
 
Of course, in [[Real Life]] -- despite—despite the somewhat popular opinion that those who analyze things for a living are boring, stilted, unemotional, and closed minded -- mostminded—most mathematicians and scientists would be quick to correct such assumptions, saying that discovery and understanding doesn't remove any magic from the equation for them; in fact, one still can love the beautiful qualities of a rainbow while knowing why they happen, but you also have the additional awe in knowing what a complex and delicate interplay of factors allows it to exist. Discovery and learning, in short, chasing after the ever elusive "why?", can bring their own magic. Indeed, many mathematicians and scientists themselves dabble in the creative arts. Scientific inventions even brought us awesome things.
 
The scientifically-minded will often find the train of thought leading to the idea of 'knowledge dismissing appreciation' to be a misunderstanding, so powerfully does it fly in the face of their own experience. Also, it is even possible for two intellectuals [[Geeky Turn On|to be aroused]] by such discussions of knowledge.
Line 22 ⟶ 23:
 
{{examples}}
== Straight Examples: ==
 
=== Anime and Manga ===
Line 44 ⟶ 45:
* The [[Walt Whitman]] poem "[http://quotations.about.com/cs/poemlyrics/a/When_I_Heard_Th.htm When I Heard the Learn'd Astronomer]" is about the narrator becoming bored at a astronomer's facts and figures and going outside to look at the stars.
** What's implicit in Whitman's poem is [[Take That|made explicit]] in [[Edgar Allan Poe]]'s ''[http://www.sonnets.org/poe.htm#100 To Science]''.
* [https://web.archive.org/web/20131118233214/http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~richie/poetry/html/poem162.html "since feeling is first"] by [[E. E. Cummings]] includes lines like "who pays attention to the syntax of things will never wholly kiss you" and "kisses are a better fate than wisdom".
** [http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/o-sweet-spontaneous-v/ "o sweet spontaneous"] is more obviously and scathingly against this.
* In ''[[Discworld]]'' the Auditors fall into this whenever they're not trying to destroy things ''because'' they can't be measured using numbers. At one point they attempted to understand art by reducing a painting to powder and sifting through to find the bit of it that was the art.
** In ''[[Discworld/Small Gods|Small Gods]]'', Brutha is shown some color illustrations of plant life at the Library of Ephebe, in a book about the useful qualities of plants. Deeply moved by the images, he remarks "they're beautiful...", and the fellow who's showing him the book replies that that's one use the book's author had entirely overlooked.
* [[John Keats]], ''Lamia'':
{{quote|...Do not all charms fly
Line 77 ⟶ 78:
=== Meta ===
 
* One of the things critics of trope wikis might cite would fall into this [[Trope]]: [[Tropes Will Ruin Your Life]] because, after a particularly long [[Wiki Walk]], you'll start seeing [[Trope|Tropes]]s every time you watch a [[Film]] and they'll distract you from enjoying the [[Plot]].
** [https://web.archive.org/web/20090901170638/http://blog.toonzone.net/blogs/39/crowning-moment-of-annoyance--tv-tropes/ This blog entry] -- the—the last paragraph directly accuses [[TV Tropes]] of this:
{{quote|But the heart of the problem is that [[TV Tropes]] takes good, challenging fiction and removes its identity as an individual piece of work. ... Nothing more quickly removes the fun and charm of something born from human emotion and creativity than to strip it down into cold and clinical statistics presented out of context.}}
* On [[TV Tropes]] itself, complaints about [[Did Not Do the Research]] are usually put forward more because of a demand for accuracy rather than for intrinsic entertainment. [[Artistic License]], [[Rule of Cool]]/[[Rule of Fun]]/whatever, will often be dismissed as 'the easy way out', neglecting the fact that good fiction uses these [[Trope|tropestrope]]s just as often as bad fiction. And, well, it is ''fictional'' - there's no prizes for getting every detail correct. They don't seem to get that [[Tropes Are Not Bad]], and that we're here to ''celebrate'' popular fiction. Indeed, half of the Wiki is now [[Awesome Moments]], [[Funny Moments]], [[Heartwarming Moments]] and their kin, which is basically the internet's repository of stuff people like just because they like it.
 
=== Music ===
Line 86 ⟶ 87:
* The song ''[[Insane Clown Posse|Miracles]]'' angrily renounces anything scientific, instead referring to almost all natural processes as "miracles", such as [[What Do You Mean It's Not Awesome?|feeding pelicans]] and [[Memetic Mutation|the workings of magnets]].
** The [[Saturday Night Live|SNL]] parody "Magical Mysteries" takes things even further, featuring lines like "What is Alaska? Who is Brazil? [[Insane Troll Logic|Isn't a volcano just an angry hill?]]"
** ''[[Loading Ready Run]]'' made a full [https://web.archive.org/web/20130206023857/http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/loadingreadyrun/1629-Scientists-Rebuttal-to-ICP rebuttal.]
* [[Coldplay]]'s song "The Scientist":
{{quote|''I was just guessing at numbers and figures''
Line 106 ⟶ 107:
** Second Edition ''[[Mage: The Ascension]]'' listed the following as the quote to sum up the attitude of the Sons of Ether: "[[Critical Research Failure|The beauty of science is not that it answers all the questions]], but that with every answer, more questions arise."
** Then there's the Weaver in ''[[Werewolf: The Apocalypse]]'', a cosmic force which is associated with both technological progress and stasis. While it tends to be perceived as a lesser threat than the obvious [[Big Bad]] that is the Wyrm, many of the non-Glass Walker Garou continue to look down on things like cities or computers. ''Then'' it's further suggested that the origin of the entire [[Crapsack World]] can be traced back to the Weaver, since its imprisonment of the Wyrm was what drove it insane to begin with.
* Early editions of ''[[Dungeons and& Dragons]]'' had comparatively fewer rules than later editions for character actions other than combat and spellcasting. Back then if, say, you wanted to throw your drink in a villain's face to blind him, jump from a balcony, swing on a chandelier, somersault through the air, land on your feet, and run out of the room, your DM would have to figure out exactly how that would work - probably an attack roll with a small penalty, some Dexterity rolls, and a decision about whether you've generally played your character as a guy who would do that kind of thing. Now, your GM has extensive rules for how far you can jump, how for you can move, how much damage you take when you fall, what difficulty the Acrobatics check should be based on your level, oh, and if you don't have an attack power that blinds (or at least stuns or dazes) you can forget the drink-throwing having any useful effect. The new version makes everything much more standardized, predictable, easy to run, and fair, but many old-timers argue that the "rules instead of rulings" style of modern editions take all the heroism and excitement out of the game.
** Of course, that's why 4th Edition also included a SPECIFIC list and a table, devoted to 'actions the rules don't cover'...So the GM can EASILY get a ruling for you doing that cool shit. (Especially "I want to swing from a chandelier and hit them!)
 
Line 140 ⟶ 141:
 
----
== Subversions and Aversions: ==
 
=== Anime and Manga ===
* In ''[[YotsubatoYotsuba&!]]!'', Asagi shows Yotsuba that the ''tsukitsukiboushi'' making the onomatopoetic chirps heard in late-summer are cicadas, and not summer-ending fairies as she believed. Yotsuba, however is excited to learn something new, and eagerly spreads the word that [[Shaped Like Itself|cicadas are cicadas!]]
 
* In ''[[Yotsubato]]!'', Asagi shows Yotsuba that the ''tsukitsukiboushi'' making the onomatopoetic chirps heard in late-summer are cicadas, and not summer-ending fairies as she believed. Yotsuba, however is excited to learn something new, and eagerly spreads the word that [[Shaped Like Itself|cicadas are cicadas!]]
 
=== Fan Works ===
 
* ''[[Dept Heaven Apocrypha]]'' has [[Student Council President|Ledah]], a workaholic [[Super OCD|overachiever]] with [[The Stoic|all the apparent emotional capacity of a brick wall]]. Slowly, it's been revealed that this is more a result of his walled-in emotional problems and history of being abused than anything else, as he displays quite childish wonder at something so simple as realizing he has a friend.
** He's also like this in [[Riviera: The Promised Land|canon]], although the example is played rather straighter there. Interestingly, in both incarnations, Ledah is deeply religious.
Line 153 ⟶ 152:
 
=== Literature ===
 
* The short story ''Democritus's Violin'' is about this trope. An academic windbag gets angry at the main character for using science in an essay on Bach and she gets back at him by pulling a prank which [[Broken Aesop|(supposedly)]] proves that [[Family-Unfriendly Aesop|the world is strictly reductionist and any belief in the power of art is the product of a dim mind]]. Um, yay?
* In ''[[Discworld/The Science of Discworld|The Science of Discworld]]'', Stewart and Cohen use the example in the [[Trope]] description; pointing out that understanding how rainbows work doesn't stop them being beautiful; it means you know ''why'' they're beautiful.
** In fact Ian Stewart, like most mathematicians, uses the word "beautiful" a ''lot''.
** A particularly well-executed proof is often referred to as 'elegant'.
Line 163 ⟶ 161:
* In [[Breakfast of Champions]], there's a scene where [[Makes Sense in Context|the author]] is attacked by a dog. Vonnegut spends two full pages on a ridiculously detailed and brilliantly dramatic explanation of what happens biochemically in his nervous system, body and brain from the time he sees the dog until he [[Crowning Moment of Awesome|jumps over a car]].
 
=== Live -Action TV ===
 
* In an episode of ''[[Sliders]]'', when an android explained to Wade why the sky is blue, and she found it romantic.
* Charlie Eppes in ''[[Numb3rs]]'' is a math genius who sees incredible and fascinating beauty in how mathematics helps describe the world.
Line 175 ⟶ 172:
* ''[[Jonathan Creek]]''.
* Inverted on ''[[Northern Exposure]]'': Ed Chigliak, [[Magical Native American]], artist, and [[Bishonen]], hates computers, until he realizes that ones and zeros are just like his people's view that the universe is made up of two things: Nothing, and everything.
* Rarely explicitly stated, but in ''[[Big Bang Theory]]'', the [[Nerd|Nerds]]s - even Sheldon on occasion - are amazed at the beauty and wonder that exists around them and quickly point out that there's amazing things that you wouldn't even know existed without the aid of science - Astronomy appears to be their poison of choice.
* On ''Fool Us'', [[Penn & Teller|Penn Jillette]] frequently says that he and Teller enjoyed a trick more than the audience because they knew how it was done and could fully appreciate the skill with which a piece of sleight of hand was done.
 
=== Meta ===
* As said above, some claim that [[Tropes Will Ruin Your Life|spending too much time on this site will make you jaded and unable to appreciate a work in any medium by automatically dissecting and analyzing it]]. However, [[Tv Tropes Will Enhance Your Life (Sugar Wiki)|not only can you get involved in a film's plot, you can have more fun on the way guessing which trope is going to be put into action before it does so.]]
 
* As said above, some claim that [[Tropes Will Ruin Your Life|spending too much time on this site will make you jaded and unable to appreciate a work in any medium by automatically dissecting and analyzing it]]. However, [[Tv Tropes Will Enhance Your Life|not only can you get involved in a film's plot, you can have more fun on the way guessing which trope is going to be put into action before it does so.]]
** And better, it gives you the tools to analyze and explain to others why you liked or did not like a piece rather than relying on "Eh, I just didn't like it."
* This is basically what people who study [[Literature]], music, art, etc. do for a living, and just like the science examples above, just try going up to a [[Literature]] professor and telling them that their understanding of the mechanics of plot, characterization, themes, and wordplay means they do not feel the same spark of wonder.
** A good example is Shakespearean comedies - before studying them and their context, you'll get about a tenth of the jokes. Some people think that the guy laughing on his own in the theatre is showing off, because as [[Don't Explain the Joke]] suggests, you can't genuinely enjoy a joke that's been explained to you.
* The author of [https://web.archive.org/web/20131030162524/http://www.aycyas.com/ And You Call Yourself A Scientist], picking apart movie pseudoscience, says something about this in her [http://www.aycyas.com/jurassicpark.htm examination] of ''[[Jurassic Park]]''.
{{quote|You know, whenever I post one of these dissectory reviews, the first consequence is always, always, that someone will send me an e-mail demanding, [[Moff's Law|"Why do you have to think so much about the films you watch? Why can’t you just enjoy them? Why do you get so upset?"]] Given the implication that "thinking" and "enjoying yourself" are necessarily mutually exclusive, it is perhaps not surprising that they rarely believe me when I say that such an exercise gives me a great deal of pleasure; that the process of putting a film under the microscope (ha, ha) adds considerably to my whole experience of it – and that’s true whether I ultimately endorse or criticize its science.}}
* Phil Plait's ''Bad Astronomy'' page has in depth reviews of movies and their misrepresentations and mistakes in movies. For example, [http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/movies/armageddon.html his article on] [[Armageddon]] mercilessly picks apart the 'science' in the movie, but starts with how he simply loved the movie for it's story/humor/art.
** He even have [http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/movies/index.html an entire page] on this single point.
* The creators of ''[[Extra Credits]]'' say they frequently receive comments saying that by analyzing games they are sucking the fun out of them. Their response can be found [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3818-Art-Is-Not-the-Opposite-of-Fun here]{{Dead link}}.
 
=== Music ===
* ''Tom Glazer'' wrote "Why Does The Sun Shine? (The Sun Is a Mass of Incandescent Gas)" in 1959. The long-forgotten song was later covered by ''[[They Might Be Giants (band)|They Might Be Giants]]'' for their children's educational CD "Here Comes Science", along with an updated song, "Why Does the Sun Really Shine? (The Sun is a Miasma of Incandescent Plasma)". Justified in that these songs are meant to both educate and entertain, ([[Crowning Music of Awesome|and do both splendidly]]).
 
* As a judge on [[The Sing -Off]], [[Ben Folds]] is enjoying the show on more levels than the rest of us as he elaborates the exact technical merits of each performance. He looks giddy as he explains how the three-part harmony comes together or points out the arrangement of events every four to eight bars.
* ''Tom Glazer'' wrote "Why Does The Sun Shine? (The Sun Is a Mass of Incandescent Gas)" in 1959. The long-forgotten song was later covered by ''[[They Might Be Giants]]'' for their children's educational CD "Here Comes Science", along with an updated song, "Why Does the Sun Really Shine? (The Sun is a Miasma of Incandescent Plasma)". Justified in that these songs are meant to both educate and entertain, ([[Crowning Music of Awesome|and do both splendidly]]).
* As a judge on [[The Sing Off]], [[Ben Folds]] is enjoying the show on more levels than the rest of us as he elaborates the exact technical merits of each performance. He looks giddy as he explains how the three-part harmony comes together or points out the arrangement of events every four to eight bars.
 
=== Web Comics ===
* Of course, ''[[Xkcdxkcd]]'' is a complete inversion of this, which often talks of math and science with an infectious sense of awe and giddiness, demonstrated [http://xkcd.com/877/ here].
 
* Of course, ''[[Xkcd]]'' is a complete inversion of this, which often talks of math and science with an infectious sense of awe and giddiness, demonstrated [http://xkcd.com/877/ here].
* Clinton from ''[[Questionable Content]]'' also inverts it, arguing that you can't truly appreciate the marigolds until you've measured them.
 
=== Web Original ===
* Inverted by the [http://symphonyofscience.com/ Symphonies of Science] which are pretty much nothing but various scientists [[Squee|gushing]] about how awesome the world and its mechanics are, [[Auto-Tune|Auto-Tuned]]d and set to music.
 
* Inverted by the [http://symphonyofscience.com/ Symphonies of Science] which are pretty much nothing but various scientists [[Squee|gushing]] about how awesome the world and its mechanics are, [[Auto-Tune|Auto-Tuned]] and set to music.
* [[Eliezer Yudkowsky]] argues against it under the title, "[http://lesswrong.com/lw/oo/explaining_vs_explaining_away/ Explaining vs. Explaining Away], with some follow up notes on taking [http://lesswrong.com/lw/or/joy_in_the_merely_real/ Joy in the "Merely" Real].
 
=== Western Animation ===
 
* The 90s ''[[Spider-Man: The Animated Series]]'' made Peter a subversion of this [[Trope]] - for instance, when he's on a Ferris wheel, Mary Jane asks how fireworks work, at which point he goes into a talk on the fuses and the gunpowder and the doping with trace metals and so on. When Mary-Jane comments that he's taken the romance out of them by analyzing them, Peter points out that knowing how they work doesn't make them any less beautiful. [[Chekhov's Gun|She would later use the knowledge to create a makeshift distress signal.]]
* The Disney cartoon ''[[Donald Duck]] in Mathemagic Land'' is an attempt to avert this. Despite Donald's insistence that advanced mathematics is for "eggheads", a [[Narrator|disembodied "Spirit of Adventure"]] manages to convince him otherwise by showing how math influences things like parlor games and music theory.
Line 212 ⟶ 204:
 
=== Real Life ===
 
* Just ask any scientist about their field of specialty, and the ''last'' thing you'll get is a roboticly dull answer. Try asking a botanist about flowers, or an astronomer about galaxies. These people chose these fields in the first place because they feel intensely about them. You don't get rich researching science. It is, almost of necessity, a labor of love.
** Hell, ask a ''mathematician'' about their work, aka "[[Everybody Hates Mathematics|the dullest thing in existence]]", and you're likely to get a whole lot of enthusiasm and excitement.
Line 229 ⟶ 220:
 
{{reflist}}
[[Category:{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Romanticism Versus Enlightenment]]
[[Category:Characterization Tropes]]
[[Category:Anti-Intellectualism]]
[[Category:Double Standard]]
[[Category:{{PAGENAME}}Alliterative Trope Titles]]