Motive Decay: Difference between revisions

Content added Content deleted
VisualWikitext
m (clean up)
Line 38: Line 38:
** Meanwhile dark Bakura suffered this in-universe for a while, retroactively. He turns out to have had [[Doomed Hometown|fairly]] [[You Killed My Father|good]] reasons for messing with the royal family, at one point, which somehow became a plan to destroy either Egypt or the world, partly because the spirit of hatred born from the slaughterof his family (Japanese) or an ancient primal destructive dark thing (English) teamed up with him. He seems to have entered the series with amnesia, carrying him still farther from sanity. But he gets back to the revenge-and-end-of-world thing in the Millenium World arc.
** Meanwhile dark Bakura suffered this in-universe for a while, retroactively. He turns out to have had [[Doomed Hometown|fairly]] [[You Killed My Father|good]] reasons for messing with the royal family, at one point, which somehow became a plan to destroy either Egypt or the world, partly because the spirit of hatred born from the slaughterof his family (Japanese) or an ancient primal destructive dark thing (English) teamed up with him. He seems to have entered the series with amnesia, carrying him still farther from sanity. But he gets back to the revenge-and-end-of-world thing in the Millenium World arc.
* Divine of ''[[Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's]]'' starts out as some sort of [[Visionary Villain]], being the leader of a movement giving shelter to the repudiated Psychic Duelists, wanting to form an army with them to take revenge on all the people hating and shunning them, making the world a better place for Psychic Duelists. Though his plans got foiled by his sudden death. But [[Ass Pull|miraculously]] he returned and [[Character Derailment]] did take the best of him. While he was always close to the [[Moral Event Horizon]], but also had his goals and clearly shared more with Aki than just [[More Than Mind Control|mind control]], he suddenly forgot all about his earlier intentions, turned into a psychopathic dumbass, causing his own death with the most ridiculous [[Engineered Public Confession]] and got eaten by a giant frog just in time to exculpate Aki from all guilt and before he was about to [[Dead Ex Machina|kill the main character]].
* Divine of ''[[Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's]]'' starts out as some sort of [[Visionary Villain]], being the leader of a movement giving shelter to the repudiated Psychic Duelists, wanting to form an army with them to take revenge on all the people hating and shunning them, making the world a better place for Psychic Duelists. Though his plans got foiled by his sudden death. But [[Ass Pull|miraculously]] he returned and [[Character Derailment]] did take the best of him. While he was always close to the [[Moral Event Horizon]], but also had his goals and clearly shared more with Aki than just [[More Than Mind Control|mind control]], he suddenly forgot all about his earlier intentions, turned into a psychopathic dumbass, causing his own death with the most ridiculous [[Engineered Public Confession]] and got eaten by a giant frog just in time to exculpate Aki from all guilt and before he was about to [[Dead Ex Machina|kill the main character]].
** Divine is subject to a bit of [[Alternate Character Interpretation]], on account of the fact that he's such a [[Manipulative Bastard]] that it's hard to discern where his [[Bitch in Sheep's Clothing|facade of geniality]] ends and his actual feelings begin. Does he truly care for Aki on some level, or is he just using false kindness to make her more and more emotionally dependent on him? Is his goal really to demand societal acceptance of psychic duelists and take revenge on those who shunned them, or is he just raising a personal army of [[Tyke Bomb|Tykebombs]] to do his bidding? Is he merely ruthless in pursuit of his goals, or is he an outright sociopath? Depending on how the individual viewer answers these questions, it's arguable that his in his reappearance after {{spoiler|his apparent death}}, he hasn't undergone [[Motive Decay]] but has simply dropped all pretenses.
** Divine is subject to a bit of [[Alternate Character Interpretation]], on account of the fact that he's such a [[Manipulative Bastard]] that it's hard to discern where his [[Bitch in Sheep's Clothing|facade of geniality]] ends and his actual feelings begin. Does he truly care for Aki on some level, or is he just using false kindness to make her more and more emotionally dependent on him? Is his goal really to demand societal acceptance of psychic duelists and take revenge on those who shunned them, or is he just raising a personal army of [[Tyke Bomb|Tykebombs]] to do his bidding? Is he merely ruthless in pursuit of his goals, or is he an outright sociopath? Depending on how the individual viewer answers these questions, it's arguable that his in his reappearance after {{spoiler|his apparent death}}, he hasn't undergone Motive Decay but has simply dropped all pretenses.
*** Must have been a lot of pretense and especially braincells to drop if he was intelligent enough to hide all those evil motives and sociopathy during the first one and a half arc, but all of a sudden completely forgot better not to insult the owner of a Jibakushin, which was in the near vicinity to boot.
*** Must have been a lot of pretense and especially braincells to drop if he was intelligent enough to hide all those evil motives and sociopathy during the first one and a half arc, but all of a sudden completely forgot better not to insult the owner of a Jibakushin, which was in the near vicinity to boot.
* Naraku in ''[[Inuyasha]]'' has changed motives so many times that eventually he was evil just for the sake of being evil. Initially, he was driven by his lust for Kikyo and hatred for Inuyasha, both stemming from his time as a human. Once he got over that, he wanted to use the Shikon-no-Tama to purge his human self and be a full-fledged youkai. And once he did that without the jewel, he was pretty much evil for the sake of evil. The jewel is supposed to grant wishes, and when Naraku finally gets the jewel, he decides not to wish on it, but just to use it to kill Inuyasha. Naraku himself says he's not sure what comes next when he's done that. Yes, that's right - he spends ''over 500 issues'' of the manga trying to get the jewel, and once he finally has it, he's not sure what to do with it.
* Naraku in ''[[Inuyasha]]'' has changed motives so many times that eventually he was evil just for the sake of being evil. Initially, he was driven by his lust for Kikyo and hatred for Inuyasha, both stemming from his time as a human. Once he got over that, he wanted to use the Shikon-no-Tama to purge his human self and be a full-fledged youkai. And once he did that without the jewel, he was pretty much evil for the sake of evil. The jewel is supposed to grant wishes, and when Naraku finally gets the jewel, he decides not to wish on it, but just to use it to kill Inuyasha. Naraku himself says he's not sure what comes next when he's done that. Yes, that's right - he spends ''over 500 issues'' of the manga trying to get the jewel, and once he finally has it, he's not sure what to do with it.
Line 81: Line 81:
* The ''[[Spider-Man]]'' villain Venom could be said to have lame motivations from the start, wanting revenge on Spider-Man for exposing the truth about Eddie Brock's shoddy reporting when he should have arguably done a better job himself. This trope is [[Inverted Trope|inverted]] in the various [[Adaptation Distillation|screen adaptations]] of the Spider-comics, as both the 1990s cartoon and ''[[The Spectacular Spider-Man]]'' cartoon, as well as the ''[[Spider-Man (film)|Spider-Man]] 3'' movie, all take their time to build up Peter Parker's animosity with Eddie Brock, giving him more and better reasons to hate Spider-Man than he ever had in the comics, and making their animosity more personal. In the original comics, Eddie Brock was unveiled without much buildup, but subsequent takes on the Venom character develop Eddie Brock on his own, before any contact with the symbiote.
* The ''[[Spider-Man]]'' villain Venom could be said to have lame motivations from the start, wanting revenge on Spider-Man for exposing the truth about Eddie Brock's shoddy reporting when he should have arguably done a better job himself. This trope is [[Inverted Trope|inverted]] in the various [[Adaptation Distillation|screen adaptations]] of the Spider-comics, as both the 1990s cartoon and ''[[The Spectacular Spider-Man]]'' cartoon, as well as the ''[[Spider-Man (film)|Spider-Man]] 3'' movie, all take their time to build up Peter Parker's animosity with Eddie Brock, giving him more and better reasons to hate Spider-Man than he ever had in the comics, and making their animosity more personal. In the original comics, Eddie Brock was unveiled without much buildup, but subsequent takes on the Venom character develop Eddie Brock on his own, before any contact with the symbiote.
** In the comics, it morphs into that Eddie decides that pre-symbiote, he was innocent and Peter screwed with all that by destroying his career. Eddie decides to go off and protect innocence in all its forms, which has the side effect of making the audience like him (he doesn't intentionally kill the good guys anymore).
** In the comics, it morphs into that Eddie decides that pre-symbiote, he was innocent and Peter screwed with all that by destroying his career. Eddie decides to go off and protect innocence in all its forms, which has the side effect of making the audience like him (he doesn't intentionally kill the good guys anymore).
** Also, it's been [[Retcon|retconned]] that he real reason Brock decided to kill himself the night he bonded with the symbiote wasn't solely because Spidey ruined his career; it turns out Brock had terminal cancer, and the death of his career was just the final straw.
** Also, it's been [[retcon]]ned that he real reason Brock decided to kill himself the night he bonded with the symbiote wasn't solely because Spidey ruined his career; it turns out Brock had terminal cancer, and the death of his career was just the final straw.
*** The recent ''Venom: Dark Origin'' keeps the lame motives, but brilliantly analyzes Eddie's past and shows that he is deeply mentally disturbed. And the ironic thing is, in real life, sometimes minor slights really are enough to make somebody your enemy.
*** The recent ''Venom: Dark Origin'' keeps the lame motives, but brilliantly analyzes Eddie's past and shows that he is deeply mentally disturbed. And the ironic thing is, in real life, sometimes minor slights really are enough to make somebody your enemy.
* Herr Starr from ''[[Preacher (Comic Book)]]'' is an example of this as intentional character development. At first he is a [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]], but after a series of unfortunate events that leave him mutilated, he becomes disaffected and gives up on his quest to better the world and merely seeks revenge. He openly states, after being told that he is a monster, that "Yes, I suppose I am. I became one a long time ago. At first in order to save the world. Now merely for the sake of vengeance."
* Herr Starr from ''[[Preacher (Comic Book)]]'' is an example of this as intentional character development. At first he is a [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]], but after a series of unfortunate events that leave him mutilated, he becomes disaffected and gives up on his quest to better the world and merely seeks revenge. He openly states, after being told that he is a monster, that "Yes, I suppose I am. I became one a long time ago. At first in order to save the world. Now merely for the sake of vengeance."
Line 99: Line 99:
* This has really become just a general result of supervillainy. Whatever reason the character was introduced, the self-perpetuating nature of the comics medium ultimately means that in order for the villain to put in a return appearance, they need a reason for him to be acting as a villain again. Once the original motive inevitably runs dry, many writers fall into the trap of "Supervillain A wants vengeance against Superhero B for defeating him the last 31 times he tried to complete his motivation!", which will be the character's new motivation for the rest of time.
* This has really become just a general result of supervillainy. Whatever reason the character was introduced, the self-perpetuating nature of the comics medium ultimately means that in order for the villain to put in a return appearance, they need a reason for him to be acting as a villain again. Once the original motive inevitably runs dry, many writers fall into the trap of "Supervillain A wants vengeance against Superhero B for defeating him the last 31 times he tried to complete his motivation!", which will be the character's new motivation for the rest of time.
** The most cut-and-dry example of this variation in action is the vicious cycle of Doctor Doom and Reed Richards of the ''[[Fantastic Four]]''. Doom originally had a [[Disproportionate Retribution|murderous grudge]] against Reed because he blamed him for a botched experiment that scarred Doom's face, injured his pride, and got him expelled. However, every time he's tried to kill Reed or [[Take Over the World]] in order to get the power necessary to kill him, Reed manages to beat him, hurting Doom's pride even more because it proves Reed is ''still'' smarter than Doom, which makes him hate Reed even more, which causes him to redouble his efforts to kill Reed, which cause him to get defeated by Reed again, which hurts his already-injured pride even more, which makes him hate Reed even more... ad infinitum.
** The most cut-and-dry example of this variation in action is the vicious cycle of Doctor Doom and Reed Richards of the ''[[Fantastic Four]]''. Doom originally had a [[Disproportionate Retribution|murderous grudge]] against Reed because he blamed him for a botched experiment that scarred Doom's face, injured his pride, and got him expelled. However, every time he's tried to kill Reed or [[Take Over the World]] in order to get the power necessary to kill him, Reed manages to beat him, hurting Doom's pride even more because it proves Reed is ''still'' smarter than Doom, which makes him hate Reed even more, which causes him to redouble his efforts to kill Reed, which cause him to get defeated by Reed again, which hurts his already-injured pride even more, which makes him hate Reed even more... ad infinitum.
*** Pretty much all Doom's [[Evil Plan|Evil Plans]] suffer from this: no matter how coldly calculated and self-serving his manipulations are, and no matter how hard he tries to convince himself that he's doing it just to [[Take Over the World]], they all eventually derail into an attempt to destroy Reed Richards' life.
*** Pretty much all Doom's [[Evil Plan]]s suffer from this: no matter how coldly calculated and self-serving his manipulations are, and no matter how hard he tries to convince himself that he's doing it just to [[Take Over the World]], they all eventually derail into an attempt to destroy Reed Richards' life.
* Marvel villain [[The Hood]] originally had some sympathetic motives for becoming a supervillain, such as supporting his family. He gradually began to love the power his new hood and boots granted him more than he loved them. When he lost the hood and boots that allowed him to channel the power of Dormammu, he leaped at Loki's offer to repower him with the Nornstones. When he lost those powers almost as soon as he got them, he didn't take it very well. Then he went after the Infinity Gems. He seems to be addicted to power for its own sake.
* Marvel villain [[The Hood]] originally had some sympathetic motives for becoming a supervillain, such as supporting his family. He gradually began to love the power his new hood and boots granted him more than he loved them. When he lost the hood and boots that allowed him to channel the power of Dormammu, he leaped at Loki's offer to repower him with the Nornstones. When he lost those powers almost as soon as he got them, he didn't take it very well. Then he went after the Infinity Gems. He seems to be addicted to power for its own sake.
* The major point of contention with fans of the [[Archie Comics Sonic the Hedgehog]] series and Ian's interpretation of the Dark Legion; before he took over, they were written as [[Well-Intentioned Extremist|Well Intentioned Extremists]] focused only on undoing a [[Straw Political]]-based technology ban and be reintegrated into main Echidna society without having to sacrifice their [[Machine Worship]] lifestyle, and have at several points [[Enemy Mine|sided with the other Echidnas against shared threats]]. After Ian took over? They got [[Flanderization|Flanderized]] into generic [[Mecha-Mooks]] who [[You Will Be Assimilated|force-cybertize other people into their ranks]].
* The major point of contention with fans of the [[Archie Comics Sonic the Hedgehog]] series and Ian's interpretation of the Dark Legion; before he took over, they were written as [[Well-Intentioned Extremist|Well Intentioned Extremists]] focused only on undoing a [[Straw Political]]-based technology ban and be reintegrated into main Echidna society without having to sacrifice their [[Machine Worship]] lifestyle, and have at several points [[Enemy Mine|sided with the other Echidnas against shared threats]]. After Ian took over? They got [[Flanderization|Flanderized]] into generic [[Mecha-Mooks]] who [[You Will Be Assimilated|force-cybertize other people into their ranks]].
Line 123: Line 123:
* Happens midway through ''[[X-Men (film)|X-Men Origins: Wolverine]]''. {{spoiler|Wolverine thinks Sabretooth killed his wife and, obviously, wants him dead. When it turns out she's still alive he still wants to kill him... for some reason.}}
* Happens midway through ''[[X-Men (film)|X-Men Origins: Wolverine]]''. {{spoiler|Wolverine thinks Sabretooth killed his wife and, obviously, wants him dead. When it turns out she's still alive he still wants to kill him... for some reason.}}
** {{spoiler|He also murdered Wolverine's only friend, Wraith. And beat the hell out of Wolverine repeatedly, at one point breaking his claws. And he's stated in no uncertain terms that he intends to hunt Wolverine and deny him any happiness, ever. * And* revealing that the love of your life was a long con just might set a man off.}}
** {{spoiler|He also murdered Wolverine's only friend, Wraith. And beat the hell out of Wolverine repeatedly, at one point breaking his claws. And he's stated in no uncertain terms that he intends to hunt Wolverine and deny him any happiness, ever. * And* revealing that the love of your life was a long con just might set a man off.}}
* Magneto's characterization is particularly inconsistent in the ''[[X-Men (film)|X-Men]]'' movies: in the first one, he wants to make everyone mutants so that the world can live as brothers (admittedly, he isn't swayed by the fact that the machine will actually ''kill'' people instead). By the third movie, Magneto is killing far more mutants than humans -- mostly mutants who are willingly following him. To emphasize his shift to [[Evil Overlord|Skeletor evil]], he not once, but ''twice'' announces that "In [[The Chessmaster|chess]] the pawns go first" as his minions die/get depowered pointlessly before him. After the minions fall, he calmly notes "That's why the pawns go first." Of course, {{spoiler|when Magneto himself is depowered, it is actually serious business}}. He wasn't a particularly nice guy earlier, but the third movie takes it much further.
* Magneto's characterization is particularly inconsistent in the ''[[X-Men (film)|X-Men]]'' movies: in the first one, he wants to make everyone mutants so that the world can live as brothers (admittedly, he isn't swayed by the fact that the machine will actually ''kill'' people instead). By the third movie, Magneto is killing far more mutants than humans—mostly mutants who are willingly following him. To emphasize his shift to [[Evil Overlord|Skeletor evil]], he not once, but ''twice'' announces that "In [[The Chessmaster|chess]] the pawns go first" as his minions die/get depowered pointlessly before him. After the minions fall, he calmly notes "That's why the pawns go first." Of course, {{spoiler|when Magneto himself is depowered, it is actually serious business}}. He wasn't a particularly nice guy earlier, but the third movie takes it much further.
** By this point it should come as no surprise that this motive decay was a result of a change in directors.
** By this point it should come as no surprise that this motive decay was a result of a change in directors.
* Clyde Shelton of ''[[Law Abiding Citizen]]'' had a good start: a complicated [[Evil Plan]] to get [[Roaring Rampage of Revenge|sweet revenge]] on the men who brutally murdered his family (one of whom was free after 5 years thanks to the prosecution's bungling). Then he [[Jumping Off the Slippery Slope|took his revenge further]]; wanting to kill every official involved in the original trial and eventually {{spoiler|all of City Hall, including the Mayor and representatives of other government agencies}} all in some half-baked bid to up-end the justice system.
* Clyde Shelton of ''[[Law Abiding Citizen]]'' had a good start: a complicated [[Evil Plan]] to get [[Roaring Rampage of Revenge|sweet revenge]] on the men who brutally murdered his family (one of whom was free after 5 years thanks to the prosecution's bungling). Then he [[Jumping Off the Slippery Slope|took his revenge further]]; wanting to kill every official involved in the original trial and eventually {{spoiler|all of City Hall, including the Mayor and representatives of other government agencies}} all in some half-baked bid to up-end the justice system.
Line 132: Line 132:
* Inverted in the ''[[Halloween (film)|Halloween]]'' films. Michael's motives are actually fleshed out in Rob Zombie's reboot. However, it turns out the fans liked it more when Michael was a soulless, mysterious psychopath.
* Inverted in the ''[[Halloween (film)|Halloween]]'' films. Michael's motives are actually fleshed out in Rob Zombie's reboot. However, it turns out the fans liked it more when Michael was a soulless, mysterious psychopath.
** This is probably because the "motive" explained in the remake pretty much boils down to a cliché [[Freudian Excuse]].
** This is probably because the "motive" explained in the remake pretty much boils down to a cliché [[Freudian Excuse]].
* The [[Sense Freak]] Cenobites of ''[[Hellraiser]]'' start out as "explorers in the furthest reaches of experience." The Lament Configuration summons them, but the people who are drawn to solving it are really drawn to the experiences the Cenobites can provide, although most aren't [[Be Careful What You Wish For|prepared for the extremes they're capable of.]] [[Motive Decay|And then...]]
* The [[Sense Freak]] Cenobites of ''[[Hellraiser]]'' start out as "explorers in the furthest reaches of experience." The Lament Configuration summons them, but the people who are drawn to solving it are really drawn to the experiences the Cenobites can provide, although most aren't [[Be Careful What You Wish For|prepared for the extremes they're capable of.]] And then...
** In the second movie, it's suggested that the Cenobites are agents of Hell and punish people [[Ironic Hell|according to their vices.]] In the third and fourth movies, Pinhead is made more evil [[For the Evulz|just for the sake of it.]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBiRuzl7mPk The church scene] is a good example.
** In the second movie, it's suggested that the Cenobites are agents of Hell and punish people [[Ironic Hell|according to their vices.]] In the third and fourth movies, Pinhead is made more evil [[For the Evulz|just for the sake of it.]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBiRuzl7mPk The church scene] is a good example.
** The fifth, seventh and eighth movies are far more psychological in nature and have Pinhead as more of a judge of those whose hedonism and/or ego has made them irredeemable. The sixth and ninth movies largely go back to the original characterization.
** The fifth, seventh and eighth movies are far more psychological in nature and have Pinhead as more of a judge of those whose hedonism and/or ego has made them irredeemable. The sixth and ninth movies largely go back to the original characterization.
Line 143: Line 143:
* Victor Helios in [[Dean Koontz]]'s Frankenstein series first desires to eliminate humanity and replace it with a masterrace of his own creation, and eventually take over the world and the universe. In the sequel series, {{spoiler|his clone who has his memories and personality now just wants wipe out humanity and then kill himself when it is completed.}}
* Victor Helios in [[Dean Koontz]]'s Frankenstein series first desires to eliminate humanity and replace it with a masterrace of his own creation, and eventually take over the world and the universe. In the sequel series, {{spoiler|his clone who has his memories and personality now just wants wipe out humanity and then kill himself when it is completed.}}
* [[Classical Mythology|Artemis]] in the book ''Acheron'', one of the most recent books in Sherrilyn Kenyon's ''[[The Dark Hunters|Dark Hunter]]'' series starts out as a friendly and curious goddess at the beginning of the book. At the end, you just want to smack her for her [[Jerkass God|unadulterated meanie]] abilities.
* [[Classical Mythology|Artemis]] in the book ''Acheron'', one of the most recent books in Sherrilyn Kenyon's ''[[The Dark Hunters|Dark Hunter]]'' series starts out as a friendly and curious goddess at the beginning of the book. At the end, you just want to smack her for her [[Jerkass God|unadulterated meanie]] abilities.
* [[Older Than Steam]]: [[Satan]] in [[John Milton]]'s ''[[Paradise Lost]]'' initially views corrupting mankind as a continuation of the fight for freedom from God. When he realizes that his rebellion against God has been a terrible mistake from the start, he decides that he can no longer be good and must embrace evil as his good. Later on, his motives further degrade to something akin to "Since I'm evil now, I must cause God as much trouble as possible." This decay is likely deliberate, as the whole arc of Satan being diminished in mind (as well as [[What Measure Is a Non-Human?|stature]] -- from towering angel to serpent) exemplifies just how destructive evil can be to its practitioners.
* [[Older Than Steam]]: [[Satan]] in [[John Milton]]'s ''[[Paradise Lost]]'' initially views corrupting mankind as a continuation of the fight for freedom from God. When he realizes that his rebellion against God has been a terrible mistake from the start, he decides that he can no longer be good and must embrace evil as his good. Later on, his motives further degrade to something akin to "Since I'm evil now, I must cause God as much trouble as possible." This decay is likely deliberate, as the whole arc of Satan being diminished in mind (as well as [[What Measure Is a Non-Human?|stature]]—from towering angel to serpent) exemplifies just how destructive evil can be to its practitioners.
* Middle-Earth:
* Middle-Earth:
** Related to the Satan example is Sauron in [[J. R. R. Tolkien|Tolkien's]] legendarium -- he starts out as a clever, manipulative [[Magnificent Bastard]] in ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', who works with Morgoth only as part of his agenda to bring order to the world, then gradually degrades to the [[Kill'Em All]] type seen in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''. This was a deliberate piece of decay on Tolkien's part, due to his belief that evil usually starts out with some kind of high-minded ideal but its methods (and Sauron's [[Death Is Cheap|multiple deaths]]) eventually ruin its practitioners, leaving them arrogant, hate-filled, mindless destroyers.
** Related to the Satan example is Sauron in [[J. R. R. Tolkien|Tolkien's]] legendarium—he starts out as a clever, manipulative [[Magnificent Bastard]] in ''[[The Silmarillion]]'', who works with Morgoth only as part of his agenda to bring order to the world, then gradually degrades to the [[Kill'Em All]] type seen in ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''. This was a deliberate piece of decay on Tolkien's part, due to his belief that evil usually starts out with some kind of high-minded ideal but its methods (and Sauron's [[Death Is Cheap|multiple deaths]]) eventually ruin its practitioners, leaving them arrogant, hate-filled, mindless destroyers.
** Even more pronounced is what happened to Sauron's former boss, Morgoth (who is intended to be [[Satan]]). He started out wanting to create and be the God of his own universe. But as he realized that nobody but God could actually be omnipotent, he gradually descended into a pure [[Omnicidal Maniac]], with a corresponding loss of his power as the mightiest angel. At least Sauron kept the same basic ''goal'' (wanting to rule the world) in mind the whole time, even if he reason shifted from "I'm the only one who can run things right," to "UNLIMITED POWER!".
** Even more pronounced is what happened to Sauron's former boss, Morgoth (who is intended to be [[Satan]]). He started out wanting to create and be the God of his own universe. But as he realized that nobody but God could actually be omnipotent, he gradually descended into a pure [[Omnicidal Maniac]], with a corresponding loss of his power as the mightiest angel. At least Sauron kept the same basic ''goal'' (wanting to rule the world) in mind the whole time, even if he reason shifted from "I'm the only one who can run things right," to "UNLIMITED POWER!".
* Played straight as an arrow in the ongoing ''[[Star Wars]]'' [[Expanded Universe|EU]] ''Legacy of the Force'' book series. In the first book of the series, Jacen Solo has visions of galaxy-wide destruction, including his dueling and killing Luke, that can only be prevented by [[It's the Only Way|accepting the teachings of the Sith]]. Lumiya, a former Vader apprentice, softens the blow by teaching Jacen that through careful discipline and sacrifice, he can avoid falling into darkness like Vader and the Emperor. However, with each successive book, his altruistic motives are shown less and less, slowly replaced by ever-increasing anger, distrust, intolerance, and desire for power. All of the culminates when he {{spoiler|kills Mara Jade}}, who had caught onto his downfall, for a reason (or at least a rationalization) that makes almost zero sense ''and was later completely abandoned by the series''. In a more recent book, he Force-chokes a young lieutenant to death for a perceived error, despite the fact she followed all standard procedures and was commended earlier in the book for her attention to detail. At this point, almost all trace of his benevolent motives are gone and all that remains is the Dark Side.
* Played straight as an arrow in the ongoing ''[[Star Wars]]'' [[Expanded Universe|EU]] ''Legacy of the Force'' book series. In the first book of the series, Jacen Solo has visions of galaxy-wide destruction, including his dueling and killing Luke, that can only be prevented by [[It's the Only Way|accepting the teachings of the Sith]]. Lumiya, a former Vader apprentice, softens the blow by teaching Jacen that through careful discipline and sacrifice, he can avoid falling into darkness like Vader and the Emperor. However, with each successive book, his altruistic motives are shown less and less, slowly replaced by ever-increasing anger, distrust, intolerance, and desire for power. All of the culminates when he {{spoiler|kills Mara Jade}}, who had caught onto his downfall, for a reason (or at least a rationalization) that makes almost zero sense ''and was later completely abandoned by the series''. In a more recent book, he Force-chokes a young lieutenant to death for a perceived error, despite the fact she followed all standard procedures and was commended earlier in the book for her attention to detail. At this point, almost all trace of his benevolent motives are gone and all that remains is the Dark Side.
** As others have noted, [[Motive Decay]] seems to be an occupational hazard of Sith Lords. Every Sith whose motives we've had an opportunity to examine started down the "dark path" for reasons that would make sense to normal people. Some want to unite the galaxy (decent motive), or to protect loved ones (ditto). Even the worst 'merely' want personal power- which isn't an inexcusable sin in and of itself. And yet every Sith we've seen has degenerated into committing acts of sheer evil. This suggests that the trope in question is intrinsic to the [[Star Wars]] concept of [[The Dark Side]]. In the Star Wars galaxy, [[In Soviet Russia, Trope Mocks You|a Sith's motives decay themselves]].
** As others have noted, Motive Decay seems to be an occupational hazard of Sith Lords. Every Sith whose motives we've had an opportunity to examine started down the "dark path" for reasons that would make sense to normal people. Some want to unite the galaxy (decent motive), or to protect loved ones (ditto). Even the worst 'merely' want personal power- which isn't an inexcusable sin in and of itself. And yet every Sith we've seen has degenerated into committing acts of sheer evil. This suggests that the trope in question is intrinsic to the [[Star Wars]] concept of [[The Dark Side]]. In the Star Wars galaxy, [[In Soviet Russia, Trope Mocks You|a Sith's motives decay themselves]].
*** Heck, a common fan theory (probably the result of an accidental [[Expansion Pack Past]] in the [[Expanded Universe]]) is that even ''[[Big Bad|Palpatine]]'' had sympathetic motives at some point--he wants the galaxy united because he's foreseen the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. This is, of course, something of a cart-before-the-horse situation.
*** Heck, a common fan theory (probably the result of an accidental [[Expansion Pack Past]] in the [[Expanded Universe]]) is that even ''[[Big Bad|Palpatine]]'' had sympathetic motives at some point—he wants the galaxy united because he's foreseen the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. This is, of course, something of a cart-before-the-horse situation.
* Emperor Jagang in the ''[[Sword of Truth]]'' books starts out as a man who believes in human superiority and unlimited potential, and believes that magic prevents the men from creating a technological society. Later, he is a religious fanatic/OmnicidalManiac who believes that all men are evil and unworthy of life, and it's his defeat which causes a sudden technological development. At the point of his change, the books take a strong right turn into Objectivist didacticism.
* Emperor Jagang in the ''[[Sword of Truth]]'' books starts out as a man who believes in human superiority and unlimited potential, and believes that magic prevents the men from creating a technological society. Later, he is a religious fanatic/OmnicidalManiac who believes that all men are evil and unworthy of life, and it's his defeat which causes a sudden technological development. At the point of his change, the books take a strong right turn into Objectivist didacticism.
* Reversed in the ''[[Vorkosigan Saga]]'', where the Cetagandans were introduced as pretty generic bad guys, defined by militarism and expansionism, but were soon developed as an entire society with hints of a history, changing goals, and internal disagreements.
* Reversed in the ''[[Vorkosigan Saga]]'', where the Cetagandans were introduced as pretty generic bad guys, defined by militarism and expansionism, but were soon developed as an entire society with hints of a history, changing goals, and internal disagreements.
Line 158: Line 158:
* Irina Derevko on ''[[Alias (TV series)|Alias]]'' was an unfortunate victim of this trope. In season two, when she was {{spoiler|revealed as The Man, responsible for all the torture Sydney went through}}, it was explained away as Irina playing a role for Khasinau, who thought he was the real leader. Her betrayal of Jack Bristow was also subsequently explained as her being an unwilling pawn of the KGB, forced to marry an American agent to find out about Project Christmas and then fake her own death. During Sydney's {{spoiler|missing two years}}, she and Jack team up to hunt for their daughter. When it becomes known that {{spoiler|Irina has been doubled, and Jack shot the double, not the real Irina}}, she becomes a valuable asset to the CIA, and rather than let them take her back into custody, Jack lets her go. She repays him by helping deliver Sydney's daughter, even though she really has been trying to kill them both as part of her "plan". After ''all'' these shades of gray, she's revealed in the series finale as your stereotypical [[Card-Carrying Villain]], {{spoiler|wanting to kill Sydney and everyone else in existence in order to bring about Rambaldi's "endgame". She is, of course, given a [[Karmic Death]], killed by Sydney as she tries to make her Great Escape before [[The End of the World as We Know It]].}}
* Irina Derevko on ''[[Alias (TV series)|Alias]]'' was an unfortunate victim of this trope. In season two, when she was {{spoiler|revealed as The Man, responsible for all the torture Sydney went through}}, it was explained away as Irina playing a role for Khasinau, who thought he was the real leader. Her betrayal of Jack Bristow was also subsequently explained as her being an unwilling pawn of the KGB, forced to marry an American agent to find out about Project Christmas and then fake her own death. During Sydney's {{spoiler|missing two years}}, she and Jack team up to hunt for their daughter. When it becomes known that {{spoiler|Irina has been doubled, and Jack shot the double, not the real Irina}}, she becomes a valuable asset to the CIA, and rather than let them take her back into custody, Jack lets her go. She repays him by helping deliver Sydney's daughter, even though she really has been trying to kill them both as part of her "plan". After ''all'' these shades of gray, she's revealed in the series finale as your stereotypical [[Card-Carrying Villain]], {{spoiler|wanting to kill Sydney and everyone else in existence in order to bring about Rambaldi's "endgame". She is, of course, given a [[Karmic Death]], killed by Sydney as she tries to make her Great Escape before [[The End of the World as We Know It]].}}
* Warren Mears was subjected to this in between seasons five and six of ''[[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]]''. He built a subservient robot girlfriend because he was lonely, but found that he actually preferred a real-life girl who was his intellectual equal and "[[I Love You Because I Can't Control You|gave him a hard time]]". Xander even expressed sympathy for him (although he was undeniably a pervert). Yet by season six he's a full-out misogynist who Xander "could see as a [[Super Villain]] type."
* Warren Mears was subjected to this in between seasons five and six of ''[[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]]''. He built a subservient robot girlfriend because he was lonely, but found that he actually preferred a real-life girl who was his intellectual equal and "[[I Love You Because I Can't Control You|gave him a hard time]]". Xander even expressed sympathy for him (although he was undeniably a pervert). Yet by season six he's a full-out misogynist who Xander "could see as a [[Super Villain]] type."
** The writers had originally planned to bring back Tucker Wells as the leader of the Trio. Notably, his troublemaking episode ("The Prom") was distinct from Warren and Jonathan's ("I Was Made to Love You" and "Superstar," respectively) in that it was ''intentionally'' malevolent as opposed to merely irresponsible. However, they couldn't get the actor. Ergo, Warren's "promotion" -- and part of the story behind the gag of Andrew only being known as "Tucker's brother".
** The writers had originally planned to bring back Tucker Wells as the leader of the Trio. Notably, his troublemaking episode ("The Prom") was distinct from Warren and Jonathan's ("I Was Made to Love You" and "Superstar," respectively) in that it was ''intentionally'' malevolent as opposed to merely irresponsible. However, they couldn't get the actor. Ergo, Warren's "promotion"—and part of the story behind the gag of Andrew only being known as "Tucker's brother".
** [[Evil Counterpart|Faith]] is another example. In the heat of fighting, she mistakes a passing human for a vampire, and stakes him. [[What Measure Is a Non-Human?]] is a big deal to Buffy & co, because they really freak out about this. When it transpires that he was connected with [[Big Bad|the Mayor]], she argues that killing him wasn't that bad because he was a bad guy anyway. Only the audience, not the other characters, are shown how upset she actually is by the incident. Then, within a short time, she's ''working'' for the Mayor, and the reason for her switching from his enemy to [[The Dragon|his Dragon]] is never really explained beyond 'she's evil now'.
** [[Evil Counterpart|Faith]] is another example. In the heat of fighting, she mistakes a passing human for a vampire, and stakes him. [[What Measure Is a Non-Human?]] is a big deal to Buffy & co, because they really freak out about this. When it transpires that he was connected with [[Big Bad|the Mayor]], she argues that killing him wasn't that bad because he was a bad guy anyway. Only the audience, not the other characters, are shown how upset she actually is by the incident. Then, within a short time, she's ''working'' for the Mayor, and the reason for her switching from his enemy to [[The Dragon|his Dragon]] is never really explained beyond 'she's evil now'.
*** Faith's slide from the heroes who excluded and distrusted her to the villains who appreciated her was clearly marked and a matter of [[Character Development]]. But after being very clearly conflicted, she switches to acting like she was completely evil all along, and the 'good guys' treat her as if that were true.
*** Faith's slide from the heroes who excluded and distrusted her to the villains who appreciated her was clearly marked and a matter of [[Character Development]]. But after being very clearly conflicted, she switches to acting like she was completely evil all along, and the 'good guys' treat her as if that were true.
Line 165: Line 165:
** There's also the Silurians, who in their first appearance were three-dimensional characters who had an equal claim as humans to live on Earth. Most of them wanted a peaceful solution to the issue, and it was just a few bad apples who led to it ending in tragedy. Their next appearance portrayed the entire race as genocidal maniacs. When a newly awakened subspecies of Silurians appeared in the new series some thirty years later, they shifted back to the original portrayal.
** There's also the Silurians, who in their first appearance were three-dimensional characters who had an equal claim as humans to live on Earth. Most of them wanted a peaceful solution to the issue, and it was just a few bad apples who led to it ending in tragedy. Their next appearance portrayed the entire race as genocidal maniacs. When a newly awakened subspecies of Silurians appeared in the new series some thirty years later, they shifted back to the original portrayal.
*** Justified in that the second appearance is led by the one survivor from the first appearance, who has in the interim become entirely bitter and hate-filled about the deaths of all his people and has shifted to blaming it on the humans and not his own bad apples.
*** Justified in that the second appearance is led by the one survivor from the first appearance, who has in the interim become entirely bitter and hate-filled about the deaths of all his people and has shifted to blaming it on the humans and not his own bad apples.
* ''[[Farscape]]'' has a positive example. Captain Crais's original motive for hunting down Crichton was to avenge the accidental death of his brother. This was something a simple discussion with Crichton could have cleared up, so the writers let them ''have'' that conversation, but in the context of a duel to the death that left Crais angry for a better reason: John won the fight and nearly killed him. Later, when Crais had more or less [[Heel Face Turn|Heel Face Turned]], he had ''another'' new motive for getting rid of Crichton: they were both in love with Aeryn.
* ''[[Farscape]]'' has a positive example. Captain Crais's original motive for hunting down Crichton was to avenge the accidental death of his brother. This was something a simple discussion with Crichton could have cleared up, so the writers let them ''have'' that conversation, but in the context of a duel to the death that left Crais angry for a better reason: John won the fight and nearly killed him. Later, when Crais had more or less [[Heel Face Turn]]ed, he had ''another'' new motive for getting rid of Crichton: they were both in love with Aeryn.
** Well, that and to get revenge on Scorpius who stole his ship, publicly shamed him, stole his life mission, and forced him into being a fugitive of the Peacekeepers.
** Well, that and to get revenge on Scorpius who stole his ship, publicly shamed him, stole his life mission, and forced him into being a fugitive of the Peacekeepers.
** Also, Crais never tried to get rid of Crichton ({{spoiler|that was Talyn}}), specifically because Crais knew that he ever laid a finger on Crichton, Aeryn would never forgive him...and would probably kill him, too.
** Also, Crais never tried to get rid of Crichton ({{spoiler|that was Talyn}}), specifically because Crais knew that he ever laid a finger on Crichton, Aeryn would never forgive him...and would probably kill him, too.
Line 176: Line 176:
*** Exactly. KARR's almost-destruction at the end of the episode is because KITT opposed him, after all other conventional methods had failed to successfully do so. At this point the continued existence of KITT is an ongoing threat to KARR's existence and must be dealt with at all costs. Sure, its [[Lawful Stupid]] robot logic, but ''that's the point''.
*** Exactly. KARR's almost-destruction at the end of the episode is because KITT opposed him, after all other conventional methods had failed to successfully do so. At this point the continued existence of KITT is an ongoing threat to KARR's existence and must be dealt with at all costs. Sure, its [[Lawful Stupid]] robot logic, but ''that's the point''.
** Could have been a result of damage done to KARR's circuitry either by the fall, by the ocean, or by [[Bellisario's Maxim|"the mysterious benefactor who rebuilt him"]]. It was shown a few times in the show that KITT was capable of being reprogrammed by turning a dial and messing around with the circuitry under his dashboard. KARR probably also suffered from this design flaw, but would kill anyone who tried to do so. It was mentioned that at least one person had died because of KARR, and that could well be the reason they died: they were trying to reprogram him. It was also shown that water in the various systems could disable them, and salt water is even less friendly to electronics.
** Could have been a result of damage done to KARR's circuitry either by the fall, by the ocean, or by [[Bellisario's Maxim|"the mysterious benefactor who rebuilt him"]]. It was shown a few times in the show that KITT was capable of being reprogrammed by turning a dial and messing around with the circuitry under his dashboard. KARR probably also suffered from this design flaw, but would kill anyone who tried to do so. It was mentioned that at least one person had died because of KARR, and that could well be the reason they died: they were trying to reprogram him. It was also shown that water in the various systems could disable them, and salt water is even less friendly to electronics.
* Jedekiah from ''[[The Tomorrow People]]''. In "Break Out", the shapeshifting android was not really villainous, but was perpetrating his apparently-evil deeds because he was under orders from a kind alien who mistakenly believed humans to be dangerous and barbaric. In his various reappearances, Jedekiah is simply evil, and obsessed with revenge, conquest, and the eradication of homo superior -- and the Tomorrow People already seem to know this to be his natural personality ahead of time.
* Jedekiah from ''[[The Tomorrow People]]''. In "Break Out", the shapeshifting android was not really villainous, but was perpetrating his apparently-evil deeds because he was under orders from a kind alien who mistakenly believed humans to be dangerous and barbaric. In his various reappearances, Jedekiah is simply evil, and obsessed with revenge, conquest, and the eradication of homo superior—and the Tomorrow People already seem to know this to be his natural personality ahead of time.
* A major plot point, and proof [[Tropes Are Tools]], is ''[[Breaking Bad]]''. By season three Walter's entire motive to be a drug dealer is gone. His family has abandoned him, the money is no use for them, let alone for him to spend, but he ''likes it'' and is trying to rationalize what he is and what he has done. Particularly notable is that when he finally gets to cook meth as a quiet day job with no thrills he requests Jessie back and spends an entire episode trying to kill a fly. Jessie, on the other hand knows he's just a bad man.
* A major plot point, and proof [[Tropes Are Tools]], is ''[[Breaking Bad]]''. By season three Walter's entire motive to be a drug dealer is gone. His family has abandoned him, the money is no use for them, let alone for him to spend, but he ''likes it'' and is trying to rationalize what he is and what he has done. Particularly notable is that when he finally gets to cook meth as a quiet day job with no thrills he requests Jessie back and spends an entire episode trying to kill a fly. Jessie, on the other hand knows he's just a bad man.
** He tells himself that he's still doing it to provide money and protection to his family (who are clearly at risk, since he's gotten in so deep). But it's made clear that these are justifications to do what he wants to do anyway.
** He tells himself that he's still doing it to provide money and protection to his family (who are clearly at risk, since he's gotten in so deep). But it's made clear that these are justifications to do what he wants to do anyway.
*** As of the season 3 finale, this appears set to change, as he has observed the consequences of his actions.
*** As of the season 3 finale, this appears set to change, as he has observed the consequences of his actions.
* The TWOP page quote is a reference to the [[Motive Decay]] of Vladimir Bierko in ''[[24]]''. Bierko's original plan was to assassinate the Russian president in the name of their separatist cause and attempt to blackmail President Logan into not opposing them. Once Logan didn't fulfill his end of the bargain, he switched into all out revenge on the U.S. and CTU, culminating in taking over a nuclear submarine with the purpose of destroying several cities, his original goal forgotten. The stupidest aspect of this is that his [[The Dragon|subordinate]], Ivan Irwich, went through the ''exact same pattern'' earlier in the season (being focused on his goal to assassinate the Russian President, getting betrayed by the US then seeking petty revenge on the US). Then Bierko makes his on screen debut...and immediately kills Irwich for deviating from their goals, the exact same thing he would do two episodes later.
* The TWOP page quote is a reference to the Motive Decay of Vladimir Bierko in ''[[24]]''. Bierko's original plan was to assassinate the Russian president in the name of their separatist cause and attempt to blackmail President Logan into not opposing them. Once Logan didn't fulfill his end of the bargain, he switched into all out revenge on the U.S. and CTU, culminating in taking over a nuclear submarine with the purpose of destroying several cities, his original goal forgotten. The stupidest aspect of this is that his [[The Dragon|subordinate]], Ivan Irwich, went through the ''exact same pattern'' earlier in the season (being focused on his goal to assassinate the Russian President, getting betrayed by the US then seeking petty revenge on the US). Then Bierko makes his on screen debut...and immediately kills Irwich for deviating from their goals, the exact same thing he would do two episodes later.
* In ''[[V]]'' the original series, which followed the mini-series and ''The Final Battle'', the visitors seem to have abandoned their original plan to steal all of Earth's water and use the people for food and have instead chosen to enslave the people for some reason. Even though they still use people for food, this appears to be a secondary motive rather than the primary purpose as it was in the original miniseries.
* In ''[[V]]'' the original series, which followed the mini-series and ''The Final Battle'', the visitors seem to have abandoned their original plan to steal all of Earth's water and use the people for food and have instead chosen to enslave the people for some reason. Even though they still use people for food, this appears to be a secondary motive rather than the primary purpose as it was in the original miniseries.
* It's not so much that his motive got decayed, more like retconned, but in ''[[Criminal Minds]]'', the [[Serial Killer]] known as the Fox had something like this happen to him when he was brought back in the season five episode "Outfoxed". His crimes as revealed in his original appearance were breaking into the houses of families, then taking them all hostage and forcing them to treat him as the head of the household before eventually leading them down to the basement and killing them all, saving the father for last. In "Outfoxed" it was implied that he sexually abused the children he took hostage, and it was suggested that his crimes were essentially him lashing out at his abusive father and also at himself. In his first appearance, there had been no hint of a sexual component to his crimes and the reason given for his behaviour was that his wife and kids had left him and he was trying to recapture what it was like to have them, with him killing the families at the end because he knew the fantasy couldn't last.
* It's not so much that his motive got decayed, more like retconned, but in ''[[Criminal Minds]]'', the [[Serial Killer]] known as the Fox had something like this happen to him when he was brought back in the season five episode "Outfoxed". His crimes as revealed in his original appearance were breaking into the houses of families, then taking them all hostage and forcing them to treat him as the head of the household before eventually leading them down to the basement and killing them all, saving the father for last. In "Outfoxed" it was implied that he sexually abused the children he took hostage, and it was suggested that his crimes were essentially him lashing out at his abusive father and also at himself. In his first appearance, there had been no hint of a sexual component to his crimes and the reason given for his behaviour was that his wife and kids had left him and he was trying to recapture what it was like to have them, with him killing the families at the end because he knew the fantasy couldn't last.
Line 213: Line 213:
*** The Betrayer title was given to him back during the war of the ancients, not after WC3. Due to him first betraying the good guys to join the legion, then double crossing them when he realized they were to evil, then (in his people's eyes) Betraying them again by recreating the very thing that had started the war to begin with simply to feed his own addiction. Illidan really does have a hard time staying on one side for any length of time.
*** The Betrayer title was given to him back during the war of the ancients, not after WC3. Due to him first betraying the good guys to join the legion, then double crossing them when he realized they were to evil, then (in his people's eyes) Betraying them again by recreating the very thing that had started the war to begin with simply to feed his own addiction. Illidan really does have a hard time staying on one side for any length of time.
** Kael'thas in ''[[Warcraft]] 3'' was a sympathetic character who allied with Illidan because he had no other choice and wanted to save his people. In World of Warcraft, he has become a power crazed evil overlord and demon worshipper who would gladly kill off his people to ensure the victory of the demons. One of whom is ''the very demon that arranged for his people's decimation in the first place''.
** Kael'thas in ''[[Warcraft]] 3'' was a sympathetic character who allied with Illidan because he had no other choice and wanted to save his people. In World of Warcraft, he has become a power crazed evil overlord and demon worshipper who would gladly kill off his people to ensure the victory of the demons. One of whom is ''the very demon that arranged for his people's decimation in the first place''.
*** This trend has become somewhat of a joke in the ''[[Warcraft]]'' fan community. An increasing number of villains appearing in ''[[World of Warcraft]]'' were [[Fallen Hero|once heroes]] or otherwise [[Well-Intentioned Extremist|well-intentioned characters]] who have suffered from [[Motive Decay]], most often [[Hand Wave|Hand Waved]] with the "insanity" excuse. How else are you going to find new storyline bosses?
*** This trend has become somewhat of a joke in the ''[[Warcraft]]'' fan community. An increasing number of villains appearing in ''[[World of Warcraft]]'' were [[Fallen Hero|once heroes]] or otherwise [[Well-Intentioned Extremist|well-intentioned characters]] who have suffered from Motive Decay, most often [[Hand Wave]]d with the "insanity" excuse. How else are you going to find new storyline bosses?
** Arthas has largely the same storyline -- he starts out making difficult and heartbreaking decisions {{spoiler|(the big one being killing off the entirely innocent population of Stratholme to prevent them from becoming undead minions of a big bad)}} and devolves into becoming a simple insane [[Big Bad]] himself. He only averts this trope because his fall into insanity was planned from the beginning, rather than something that was tacked on.
** Arthas has largely the same storyline—he starts out making difficult and heartbreaking decisions {{spoiler|(the big one being killing off the entirely innocent population of Stratholme to prevent them from becoming undead minions of a big bad)}} and devolves into becoming a simple insane [[Big Bad]] himself. He only averts this trope because his fall into insanity was planned from the beginning, rather than something that was tacked on.
** Tidbits such as [http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23891 this quest item] and Horde [[NPC|NPCs]] considering having their siege equipment "accidentally" go off and hitting the Ally base leaves one to wonder how much of Illidan's attack is motive decay and how much is propaganda against him.
** Tidbits such as [http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23891 this quest item] and Horde [[NPC]]s considering having their siege equipment "accidentally" go off and hitting the Ally base leaves one to wonder how much of Illidan's attack is motive decay and how much is propaganda against him.
** For both Arthas and Illidan, as well as much of the plot of The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King, the 'decay' stems from no one ever reporting back to the Alliance or the Horde about what happened in The Frozen Throne. Which makes sense, since no one connected to either faction was involved at all in the events at Northrend where all this happened. If Illidan had thought to inform others about what they were planning and why, it's quite likely that he would've been able to rally support from both the Alliance, The Night Elves, and the Forsaken and easily stop Arthas. For that matter, if he'd thought to explain what he was doing, or why he was doing it, it's likely that Malfurion wouldn't have banished him in the middle of Reign of Chaos.
** For both Arthas and Illidan, as well as much of the plot of The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King, the 'decay' stems from no one ever reporting back to the Alliance or the Horde about what happened in The Frozen Throne. Which makes sense, since no one connected to either faction was involved at all in the events at Northrend where all this happened. If Illidan had thought to inform others about what they were planning and why, it's quite likely that he would've been able to rally support from both the Alliance, The Night Elves, and the Forsaken and easily stop Arthas. For that matter, if he'd thought to explain what he was doing, or why he was doing it, it's likely that Malfurion wouldn't have banished him in the middle of Reign of Chaos.
** A decent point but in WC Reign of Chaos, it's pretty clear Furion wouldn't give Illidan the time of day, There was little left of the Alliance for Illidan to ally with, plus the whole it was being run by racist assholes. In WoW the two people that could talk sense into Illidan are disposed of. It still comes off as, "We need awesome bosses for the expansion packs... I know!"
** A decent point but in WC Reign of Chaos, it's pretty clear Furion wouldn't give Illidan the time of day, There was little left of the Alliance for Illidan to ally with, plus the whole it was being run by racist assholes. In WoW the two people that could talk sense into Illidan are disposed of. It still comes off as, "We need awesome bosses for the expansion packs... I know!"
Line 224: Line 224:
* Happens often to the villains of ''[[Final Fantasy]]'':
* Happens often to the villains of ''[[Final Fantasy]]'':
** Zemus of ''[[Final Fantasy IV]]'' starts out a Lunarian Supremacist. By the time of the game proper, he's more into [[Kill All Humans]]. When his body is destroyed, his soul quickly becomes ''the personification of hatred''.
** Zemus of ''[[Final Fantasy IV]]'' starts out a Lunarian Supremacist. By the time of the game proper, he's more into [[Kill All Humans]]. When his body is destroyed, his soul quickly becomes ''the personification of hatred''.
** Sephiroth in ''[[Final Fantasy VII]]'' initially turns evil after [[Go Mad From the Revelation|going mad from the (partly false) revelation]] about his origins and deciding to take revenge on humanity on behalf of his mother whom he believes to be a Cetra. After he falls into the Lifestream and floats there for a few years, he returns having decided that it's actually all right that his "mother" is an [[Eldritch Abomination]] (the one who nearly wiped out the Cetra), and decides to absorb [[The Lifestream]] to [[A God Am I|become a god]] and acquire ultimate power. Then [[The Hero|Cloud]] defeated him for a second time. In almost every spin-off since Sephiroth is little more than Cloud's archrival, obsessed with defeating him but not before [[Mind Screw|Mind Screwing]] him by pointing out how easily he can push Cloud's buttons. He did have a new plot to take over the world in ''[[Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children|Advent Children]]'', but he set it aside in the climax for a duel with Cloud and his plan failed when Cloud beat him. [[All There in the Manual|The accompanying]] novellas reveal he didn't even ''have'' to recreate a physical body for himself to see his plan succeed, he ''chose'' to do it just to rub his rebirth in Cloud's face. At this point Sephiroth is little more than the personification of [[Evil Is Cool]], striking iconic poses and dropping quotable one-liners about despair before going off to duel Cloud again.
** Sephiroth in ''[[Final Fantasy VII]]'' initially turns evil after [[Go Mad From the Revelation|going mad from the (partly false) revelation]] about his origins and deciding to take revenge on humanity on behalf of his mother whom he believes to be a Cetra. After he falls into the Lifestream and floats there for a few years, he returns having decided that it's actually all right that his "mother" is an [[Eldritch Abomination]] (the one who nearly wiped out the Cetra), and decides to absorb [[The Lifestream]] to [[A God Am I|become a god]] and acquire ultimate power. Then [[The Hero|Cloud]] defeated him for a second time. In almost every spin-off since Sephiroth is little more than Cloud's archrival, obsessed with defeating him but not before [[Mind Screw]]ing him by pointing out how easily he can push Cloud's buttons. He did have a new plot to take over the world in ''[[Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children|Advent Children]]'', but he set it aside in the climax for a duel with Cloud and his plan failed when Cloud beat him. [[All There in the Manual|The accompanying]] novellas reveal he didn't even ''have'' to recreate a physical body for himself to see his plan succeed, he ''chose'' to do it just to rub his rebirth in Cloud's face. At this point Sephiroth is little more than the personification of [[Evil Is Cool]], striking iconic poses and dropping quotable one-liners about despair before going off to duel Cloud again.
*** ''[[Dissidia Final Fantasy]]'' has a subtle [[Lampshade Hanging]] of this--when Sephiroth senses Cloud approaching, he tells Warrior of Light he must "fulfill his obligation" and goes off to see Cloud. When they meet Sephiroth squares off to fight, but Cloud refuses because he doesn't see the point of fighting him anymore. No, really, he says "Fighting you would be meaningless. I'm tired of taking part in pointless battles." By the end of the game, his fixation on Cloud has grown obsessive.
*** ''[[Dissidia Final Fantasy]]'' has a subtle [[Lampshade Hanging]] of this—when Sephiroth senses Cloud approaching, he tells Warrior of Light he must "fulfill his obligation" and goes off to see Cloud. When they meet Sephiroth squares off to fight, but Cloud refuses because he doesn't see the point of fighting him anymore. No, really, he says "Fighting you would be meaningless. I'm tired of taking part in pointless battles." By the end of the game, his fixation on Cloud has grown obsessive.
*** Not to mention Kefka's assessment of him.
*** Not to mention Kefka's assessment of him.
{{quote|'''Kefka''': Uh, what is it that you want?}}
{{quote|'''Kefka''': Uh, what is it that you want?}}
Line 254: Line 254:
* Vlad in ''[[Danny Phantom]]'' starts out with a rather sympathetic backstory and an almost understandable motivation: Jack, through sheer idiocy, caused an accident that sent Vlad to the hospital for years, costing Vlad's chance at Maddie, who ended up marrying Jack. Later episodes started ignoring it; in an episode where Danny changes history to prevent Vlad's accident (giving him absolutely no motivation for turning evil), he ''still'' turns out evil for no apparent reason. One could argue it's really a matter of personality in that Vlad has an unhealthy means of obsession despite different time periods. It's implied Maddie still loves Jack (Past Maddie is giving loving eyes towards Jack) in the altered timeline while Vlad is hinted to be bitter even during his college years (he crosses his arms in frustration when Maddie doesn't pay attention to him). With Jack alive, it's motivation enough for Vlad to go completely apeshit to preserve his happy ending. Of course, in ''The Ultimate Enemy'', Vlad is shown as actually being a rather caring individual (willing to adopt Danny after he's orphaned, and willing to help rid him of his human sorrow for what appears to be purely altruistic reasons). So make of him what you will. His motives still decay over time, with less and less focus being on killing Jack and taking Maddie/Danny as his wife/son and more and more on just screwing with Danny and being his antagonist. At first he was an antagonistic in a half "I'll train you" kind of way and in the end he just went straight villain.
* Vlad in ''[[Danny Phantom]]'' starts out with a rather sympathetic backstory and an almost understandable motivation: Jack, through sheer idiocy, caused an accident that sent Vlad to the hospital for years, costing Vlad's chance at Maddie, who ended up marrying Jack. Later episodes started ignoring it; in an episode where Danny changes history to prevent Vlad's accident (giving him absolutely no motivation for turning evil), he ''still'' turns out evil for no apparent reason. One could argue it's really a matter of personality in that Vlad has an unhealthy means of obsession despite different time periods. It's implied Maddie still loves Jack (Past Maddie is giving loving eyes towards Jack) in the altered timeline while Vlad is hinted to be bitter even during his college years (he crosses his arms in frustration when Maddie doesn't pay attention to him). With Jack alive, it's motivation enough for Vlad to go completely apeshit to preserve his happy ending. Of course, in ''The Ultimate Enemy'', Vlad is shown as actually being a rather caring individual (willing to adopt Danny after he's orphaned, and willing to help rid him of his human sorrow for what appears to be purely altruistic reasons). So make of him what you will. His motives still decay over time, with less and less focus being on killing Jack and taking Maddie/Danny as his wife/son and more and more on just screwing with Danny and being his antagonist. At first he was an antagonistic in a half "I'll train you" kind of way and in the end he just went straight villain.
* The Floaty Heads in ''[[The Secret Show]]'' parody this. ''Every single time they show up'' they want something totally different. It's not commented on in the show, but it is on the show's website.
* The Floaty Heads in ''[[The Secret Show]]'' parody this. ''Every single time they show up'' they want something totally different. It's not commented on in the show, but it is on the show's website.
* Macbeth from ''[[Gargoyles]]'' was an odd case - he only attacked the Gargoyles in his first appearance in an attempt to draw out the villainess Demona. By the end of that episode, the heroes had explained that she hated them too, which gave him no real motive to oppose them... yet every subsequent appearance found some excuse to feature him as an antagonist. First he went after a set of magical scrolls (that turned out to be diaries) that the Gargs had anticipated ''Xanatos'' would try to steal. Not once, but twice, he fought them under the Weird Sisters' mind-control -- with a third incident that turned out to be a decoy robot double built by Xanatos. In a World Tour appearance, they crossed paths without trading blows, parting on fairly amiable terms, but then he was opposing their friend King Arthur in an attempt to recover Excalibur. For two full seasons, he was a recurring villain, who never once had so much of an [[Enemy Mine]], despite having no specific reason to oppose the heroes.
* Macbeth from ''[[Gargoyles]]'' was an odd case - he only attacked the Gargoyles in his first appearance in an attempt to draw out the villainess Demona. By the end of that episode, the heroes had explained that she hated them too, which gave him no real motive to oppose them... yet every subsequent appearance found some excuse to feature him as an antagonist. First he went after a set of magical scrolls (that turned out to be diaries) that the Gargs had anticipated ''Xanatos'' would try to steal. Not once, but twice, he fought them under the Weird Sisters' mind-control—with a third incident that turned out to be a decoy robot double built by Xanatos. In a World Tour appearance, they crossed paths without trading blows, parting on fairly amiable terms, but then he was opposing their friend King Arthur in an attempt to recover Excalibur. For two full seasons, he was a recurring villain, who never once had so much of an [[Enemy Mine]], despite having no specific reason to oppose the heroes.
** [[The Unmasqued World|After their cover was blown world-wide,]] he did get a cameo as a TV correspondent promoting friendly human-gargoyle relations -- kind of funny since the experiences he'd had that were shown to the audience were almost overwhelmingly negative! But he doesn't hold Demona against the gargs as a whole. In the [[Expanded Universe|comic continuation]] he's becoming more of an ally.
** [[The Unmasqued World|After their cover was blown world-wide,]] he did get a cameo as a TV correspondent promoting friendly human-gargoyle relations—kind of funny since the experiences he'd had that were shown to the audience were almost overwhelmingly negative! But he doesn't hold Demona against the gargs as a whole. In the [[Expanded Universe|comic continuation]] he's becoming more of an ally.
** Villains in Gargoyles tend to be more complex than your standard "tie the girl to the railroad track" fare. After the "City of Stone" arc, Macbeth's only appearances as a ''true'' villain were under mind control. He actually did have a valid reason to at least try to obtain Excalibur- he fit the prophecy as well as Arthur Pendragon did. And the episode during the world tour would count as a non-antagonistic appearance of the character.
** Villains in Gargoyles tend to be more complex than your standard "tie the girl to the railroad track" fare. After the "City of Stone" arc, Macbeth's only appearances as a ''true'' villain were under mind control. He actually did have a valid reason to at least try to obtain Excalibur- he fit the prophecy as well as Arthur Pendragon did. And the episode during the world tour would count as a non-antagonistic appearance of the character.
* Most villains in ''[[Batman: The Animated Series|Batman the Animated Series]]'', and to an extent [[Batman|the comics]], had genuine motives in their debut appearances, but the motivations for their later crimes was mostly "revenge on Batman"; to their defense, most of them were crazy.
* Most villains in ''[[Batman: The Animated Series|Batman the Animated Series]]'', and to an extent [[Batman|the comics]], had genuine motives in their debut appearances, but the motivations for their later crimes was mostly "revenge on Batman"; to their defense, most of them were crazy.
Line 266: Line 266:
** Almost every episode that involved any of Team Go, and especially when in their own city, tended to fall hard into superhero world cliches. Just as Kim Possible was a show lampooning the spy genre, they had their own fun with the superhero ones with Team Go. Example, Kim and Ron pick out Hego as the manager of the Bueno Nacho within minutes (his [[Clark Kenting]] was weak). Having taken Ron as his arch was simply "how it's done, who am I to argue" and between the choice of Kim Possible, the super strong Hego, and the pathetic sidekick, who would you want to choice as your enemy?
** Almost every episode that involved any of Team Go, and especially when in their own city, tended to fall hard into superhero world cliches. Just as Kim Possible was a show lampooning the spy genre, they had their own fun with the superhero ones with Team Go. Example, Kim and Ron pick out Hego as the manager of the Bueno Nacho within minutes (his [[Clark Kenting]] was weak). Having taken Ron as his arch was simply "how it's done, who am I to argue" and between the choice of Kim Possible, the super strong Hego, and the pathetic sidekick, who would you want to choice as your enemy?
* ''[[The Fairly Odd Parents]]'': The pixies, lead by HP, were a race that wanted to [[Lawful Evil|impose order]] on Fairy World and the Earth. Then, suddenly, in "Fairly Oddbaby" they teamed up with the anti-fairies, despite the fact that they're [[Exclusively Evil|the complete opposite of order]] and randomly want to [[Omnicidal Maniac|blow up the Earth]].
* ''[[The Fairly Odd Parents]]'': The pixies, lead by HP, were a race that wanted to [[Lawful Evil|impose order]] on Fairy World and the Earth. Then, suddenly, in "Fairly Oddbaby" they teamed up with the anti-fairies, despite the fact that they're [[Exclusively Evil|the complete opposite of order]] and randomly want to [[Omnicidal Maniac|blow up the Earth]].
* Now admittedly ''[[Teen Titans (animation)|Teen Titans]]'' was never the greatest at establishing concrete motives for its villains (with a few exceptions), but a particularly solid case of decay still exists in the form of Brother Blood. He starts out as your typical <s>power-mad</s> supervillain ''pimp'', helped by the fact that he has psychic powers, but then degenerates into [[For the Evulz]] territory and his final [[Evil Plan]] involves--becoming exactly like Cyborg. Why? Because he's decided that Cyborg is simply the greatest thing since sliced bread, apparently, which winds up making Blood look rather pathetic.
* Now admittedly ''[[Teen Titans (animation)|Teen Titans]]'' was never the greatest at establishing concrete motives for its villains (with a few exceptions), but a particularly solid case of decay still exists in the form of Brother Blood. He starts out as your typical <s>power-mad</s> supervillain ''pimp'', helped by the fact that he has psychic powers, but then degenerates into [[For the Evulz]] territory and his final [[Evil Plan]] involves—becoming exactly like Cyborg. Why? Because he's decided that Cyborg is simply the greatest thing since sliced bread, apparently, which winds up making Blood look rather pathetic.
* ''[[Darkwing Duck]]'' averts this with most of its cartoonish super villains, but with Bushroot it follows this trope to hilt. Bushroot started his life of villainy to get revenge on the scientists who mocked him and destroyed his inventions, and to be with the one he loved. Some of his solo acts continued with his misunderstood lonely madman, such as trying to create sapient plants, but others are just plain supervillainy, like growing money to steal more money. Whenever he's teamed up with the [[Five-Bad Band|Fiendish Five]], or just partnering with another villain, any good side goes away completely. Quackerjack, on a lower level, switches from trying to rebuild his toy empire/getting revenge on the toys/businesses who drove him out of business, to just wanting to commit random acts of crime. Then again, he's insane.
* ''[[Darkwing Duck]]'' averts this with most of its cartoonish super villains, but with Bushroot it follows this trope to hilt. Bushroot started his life of villainy to get revenge on the scientists who mocked him and destroyed his inventions, and to be with the one he loved. Some of his solo acts continued with his misunderstood lonely madman, such as trying to create sapient plants, but others are just plain supervillainy, like growing money to steal more money. Whenever he's teamed up with the [[Five-Bad Band|Fiendish Five]], or just partnering with another villain, any good side goes away completely. Quackerjack, on a lower level, switches from trying to rebuild his toy empire/getting revenge on the toys/businesses who drove him out of business, to just wanting to commit random acts of crime. Then again, he's insane.
** The "growing money to steal more" plot of Bushroot's does still kind of fit with his misunderstood lonely madman motif, as he was using the money mostly to buy things for his plant friends.
** The "growing money to steal more" plot of Bushroot's does still kind of fit with his misunderstood lonely madman motif, as he was using the money mostly to buy things for his plant friends.
Line 272: Line 272:
** One episode of the actual series infamously lampshaded it with Gargamel saying "I DON'T want to turn them into gold! I DON'T want to eat them! Now I just want them DEAD!"
** One episode of the actual series infamously lampshaded it with Gargamel saying "I DON'T want to turn them into gold! I DON'T want to eat them! Now I just want them DEAD!"
* In ''[[Re Boot]]'' Megabyte went from conquest of Mainframe to personal revenge in season 4. He even [[Lampshade Hanging|admits it]] during a monologue right before the cliffhanger.
* In ''[[Re Boot]]'' Megabyte went from conquest of Mainframe to personal revenge in season 4. He even [[Lampshade Hanging|admits it]] during a monologue right before the cliffhanger.
{{quote|You're probably looking forward to one of my erudite speeches about me, [[Egopolis|Megaframe]], the new viral dawn, et cetera et cetera. But I'm afraid I'm going to have to disappoint you. [[Motive Decay|There is no grand scheme here.]] This is about revenge.}}
{{quote|You're probably looking forward to one of my erudite speeches about me, [[Egopolis|Megaframe]], the new viral dawn, et cetera et cetera. But I'm afraid I'm going to have to disappoint you. There is no grand scheme here. This is about revenge.}}
* At first, it seems Wile E. Coyote of [[Looney Tunes]] wants to eat the Roadrunner. typical predator/prey relationship. But, some of the things Wile E. plans(poisoning, exploding, etc.) would make the Roadrunner inedible. He just wanted that bird dead after a while!
* At first, it seems Wile E. Coyote of [[Looney Tunes]] wants to eat the Roadrunner. typical predator/prey relationship. But, some of the things Wile E. plans(poisoning, exploding, etc.) would make the Roadrunner inedible. He just wanted that bird dead after a while!
** [[Chuck Jones]] would often quote George Santayana's definition of a fanatic - "someone who doubles his efforts while forgetting his aim" - in describing Wile E.
** [[Chuck Jones]] would often quote George Santayana's definition of a fanatic - "someone who doubles his efforts while forgetting his aim" - in describing Wile E.
Retrieved from "https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Motive_Decay"