New World of Darkness/Headscratchers: Difference between revisions
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** So what's so inconsistent about it? Different things with varying characteristics can be classified under the same name - for example, humans and dogs are both mammals. And the sparkly/pale/shiny thing you're talking about is aura colors not anything related to souls. |
** So what's so inconsistent about it? Different things with varying characteristics can be classified under the same name - for example, humans and dogs are both mammals. And the sparkly/pale/shiny thing you're talking about is aura colors not anything related to souls. |
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** ''Mage'' has a clear definition of a Soul, but ''Vampire'' doesn't define it at all. Souls (and losing them) are important to Mages because Mages can do stuff with theirs and others'. Souls are not that important to Vampires because the only thing they can do is devour the souls of other Vampires and gain power. Not so much inconsistent as a matter of the limitations that come with the territory. |
** ''Mage'' has a clear definition of a Soul, but ''Vampire'' doesn't define it at all. Souls (and losing them) are important to Mages because Mages can do stuff with theirs and others'. Souls are not that important to Vampires because the only thing they can do is devour the souls of other Vampires and gain power. Not so much inconsistent as a matter of the limitations that come with the territory. |
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*** Souls in Vampire are actually pretty well defined. Mythologies talks a lot about the role played by Vampire souls and torpor. |
*** Souls in Vampire are actually pretty well defined. Mythologies talks a lot about the role played by Vampire souls and torpor. |
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** Building on that last comment, the ''soul'' is the intangible part of a person's being that possesses Willpower and is capable of Morality/Wisdom/Humanity. A living being who has had his soul removed is still able to perform the biological functions of living, but has no ability to motivate himself. A Vampire whose soul is devoured loses the thing keeping him animate, which is why when you remove a Vampire's soul, the body instantly decays. |
** Building on that last comment, the ''soul'' is the intangible part of a person's being that possesses Willpower and is capable of Morality/Wisdom/Humanity. A living being who has had his soul removed is still able to perform the biological functions of living, but has no ability to motivate himself. A Vampire whose soul is devoured loses the thing keeping him animate, which is why when you remove a Vampire's soul, the body instantly decays. |
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** Maybe all these groups have [[Our Souls Are Different|different definitions of 'soul']]. |
** Maybe all these groups have [[Our Souls Are Different|different definitions of 'soul']]. |
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* It would be [[Magic Versus Science|hilarious]] if Geniuses caused Paradox, and Mages caused Havoc. It would be ''even more'' hilarious if they ''didn't''. Anyone wanna clarify? |
* It would be [[Magic Versus Science|hilarious]] if Geniuses caused Paradox, and Mages caused Havoc. It would be ''even more'' hilarious if they ''didn't''. Anyone wanna clarify? |
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** Well, according to the Genius: The Transgression 1.0 PDF, metanormal beings other than Geniuses don't trigger Havoc on Wonders that they use. Presumably, this would apply to other objects or beings made with Mania. So, by extension, Mages probably don't trigger Havoc. I haven't read any of the Mage: The Awakening materials, so I don't know if the same is true regarding Geniuses and Paradox. |
** Well, according to the Genius: The Transgression 1.0 PDF, metanormal beings other than Geniuses don't trigger Havoc on Wonders that they use. Presumably, this would apply to other objects or beings made with Mania. So, by extension, Mages probably don't trigger Havoc. I haven't read any of the Mage: The Awakening materials, so I don't know if the same is true regarding Geniuses and Paradox. |
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*** Genius is unofficial, it wouldn't say. Do other metanormal beings trigger Paradox? Because if they don't, Geniuses likely don't either. Except maybe [[Reality Warper|Unmada]]. Now ''then'' [[Hilarity Ensues]]... *** So that does mean that, technically, Hunters would trigger paradox, right? |
*** Genius is unofficial, it wouldn't say. Do other metanormal beings trigger Paradox? Because if they don't, Geniuses likely don't either. Except maybe [[Reality Warper|Unmada]]. Now ''then'' [[Hilarity Ensues]]... *** So that does mean that, technically, Hunters would trigger paradox, right? |
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*** Uh, guys... Paradox isn't something you ''trigger.'' It's something that ''happens'' and is ''aggravated'' or ''mitigated.'' And since Sleepers are the only ones that make Paradox worse... |
*** Uh, guys... Paradox isn't something you ''trigger.'' It's something that ''happens'' and is ''aggravated'' or ''mitigated.'' And since Sleepers are the only ones that make Paradox worse... |
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** Speaking of Mages vs Geniuses. How come the Technocracy hasn't killed every single Genius yet? The very nature of Inspiration and Wonders goes against what the Technocracy is working towards. |
** Speaking of Mages vs Geniuses. How come the Technocracy hasn't killed every single Genius yet? The very nature of Inspiration and Wonders goes against what the Technocracy is working towards. |
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*** Geniuses don't exist in the old World of Darkness, so the Technocracy wouldn't know about them. As for the [[Ancient Conspiracy|Seers of the Throne]], they [[Weirdness Censor|have a mental block]] regarding their Genius counterpart, [[Vestigial Empire|Lemuria]]. This works both ways, thankfully, since they have similar yet mutually incompatible agendas. |
*** Geniuses don't exist in the old World of Darkness, so the Technocracy wouldn't know about them. As for the [[Ancient Conspiracy|Seers of the Throne]], they [[Weirdness Censor|have a mental block]] regarding their Genius counterpart, [[Vestigial Empire|Lemuria]]. This works both ways, thankfully, since they have similar yet mutually incompatible agendas. |
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*** That's gotta be crossover campaign fuel, assuming a team of Geniuses and Mages could get along long enough to exploit their respective enemies. "No, don't try to explain it to me again, I don't care and it just gets me mad. Now let's try not to get slaughtered by the psychic cyborg squid." |
*** That's gotta be crossover campaign fuel, assuming a team of Geniuses and Mages could get along long enough to exploit their respective enemies. "No, don't try to explain it to me again, I don't care and it just gets me mad. Now let's try not to get slaughtered by the psychic cyborg squid." |
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* What bugs me is people who dis the Fan Generated content (but surprisingly go for the crap that has become official FROM Fan Generated content!?) This includes some of the new Camerilla fan-club story lines, NPCs, and recent content of official books like ''Ghost Walk'' and ''Asylum''. Truth is as long as its not part of the Cammy fan club its game (literally) for use. ''Genius: The Transgression'' is a great example of [[What Could Have Been]] and yet...if you play it its actually fairly fun; not so much for a cross venue (see above) but it works well with Mage, Vampire, and Promethian and a little bit with Hunter but not so well with Geist, Werewolf, or Changeling however. The Enoch: Angels (aka a remake with new rules of Demon the Fallen) is very good...works well with all official books..and isn't role play all ABOUT making shit up as we go and telling a good story? |
* What bugs me is people who dis the Fan Generated content (but surprisingly go for the crap that has become official FROM Fan Generated content!?) This includes some of the new Camerilla fan-club story lines, NPCs, and recent content of official books like ''Ghost Walk'' and ''Asylum''. Truth is as long as its not part of the Cammy fan club its game (literally) for use. ''Genius: The Transgression'' is a great example of [[What Could Have Been]] and yet...if you play it its actually fairly fun; not so much for a cross venue (see above) but it works well with Mage, Vampire, and Promethian and a little bit with Hunter but not so well with Geist, Werewolf, or Changeling however. The Enoch: Angels (aka a remake with new rules of Demon the Fallen) is very good...works well with all official books..and isn't role play all ABOUT making shit up as we go and telling a good story? |
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** While fan-created material is pretty mixed in terms of quality, this pisses me off too. The whole point of the nWoD is that they were trying to get AWAY from the crushing, overbearing continuity of the oWoD. That's why it's a toolkit instead of a playset. |
** While fan-created material is pretty mixed in terms of quality, this pisses me off too. The whole point of the nWoD is that they were trying to get AWAY from the crushing, overbearing continuity of the oWoD. That's why it's a toolkit instead of a playset. |
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* Okay, in ''Vampire'', low-humanity vampires don't provide the proper non-verbal cues, and Prometheans have a supernatural version of the [[Uncanny Valley]] response. What about people who have neurological conditions that mean they don't notice non-verbal cues -- or have to consciously evaluate them -- or have a diminished or nonexistent [[Uncanny Valley]] response? They exist -- hell, I'm one of them -- but the books don't even briefly discuss them. |
* Okay, in ''Vampire'', low-humanity vampires don't provide the proper non-verbal cues, and Prometheans have a supernatural version of the [[Uncanny Valley]] response. What about people who have neurological conditions that mean they don't notice non-verbal cues -- or have to consciously evaluate them -- or have a diminished or nonexistent [[Uncanny Valley]] response? They exist -- hell, I'm one of them -- but the books don't even briefly discuss them. |
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*** What's more, it would sort of fit into the blatantly contradictory nature of the True Fae anyhow. |
*** What's more, it would sort of fit into the blatantly contradictory nature of the True Fae anyhow. |
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* In ''[[Changeling: The Lost]]'', the [[Karma Meter|Clarity Meter]] is said to measure the Changeling's ability to walk the fine line between the two worlds of Earth and Arcadia, and degeneration comes less because of any particular morals and more because of sudden reawakenings of buried mental traumas (impassioned, impulsive crimes reminding the Changeling of the cruelly mercurial Others that enslaved them, for example) or disruptions to their delicate balance between their human and fae selves. In theory, this makes sense and is all well and good; [[Werewolf: The Forsaken|Werewolves]] have similar reasons for using Harmony instead of Morality. In '''practice''', however, the Clarity meter comes off as punishing the Changeling for using their faerie side at all. At the highest levels of Clarity, the changeling is forbidden from entering the Hedge, dreamwalking, using magic items or tokens, or even choosing to attend to faerie-related matters over attending to human-related matters (for example, brushing off a date with a human girl to go and stop a hobgoblin rampaging through the streets). |
* In ''[[Changeling: The Lost]]'', the [[Karma Meter|Clarity Meter]] is said to measure the Changeling's ability to walk the fine line between the two worlds of Earth and Arcadia, and degeneration comes less because of any particular morals and more because of sudden reawakenings of buried mental traumas (impassioned, impulsive crimes reminding the Changeling of the cruelly mercurial Others that enslaved them, for example) or disruptions to their delicate balance between their human and fae selves. In theory, this makes sense and is all well and good; [[Werewolf: The Forsaken|Werewolves]] have similar reasons for using Harmony instead of Morality. In '''practice''', however, the Clarity meter comes off as punishing the Changeling for using their faerie side at all. At the highest levels of Clarity, the changeling is forbidden from entering the Hedge, dreamwalking, using magic items or tokens, or even choosing to attend to faerie-related matters over attending to human-related matters (for example, brushing off a date with a human girl to go and stop a hobgoblin rampaging through the streets). |
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** Did you happen to pay any attention to the parts where it mentions that high Clarity is just as problematic as low Clarity for different reasons? Or that fae matters are notoriously bad for sanity? Or that Clarity is basically a [[Sanity Meter]]? The Lost need stability if they're to maintain their Clarity, and faestuff is bad for that -- hell, low Clarity actually ''benefits'' some rolls involving fae magic. It's a choice you make. Wyrd, like all the other supernatural power stats in WoD, is not equivalent to "levels" á là ''[[Dungeons |
** Did you happen to pay any attention to the parts where it mentions that high Clarity is just as problematic as low Clarity for different reasons? Or that fae matters are notoriously bad for sanity? Or that Clarity is basically a [[Sanity Meter]]? The Lost need stability if they're to maintain their Clarity, and faestuff is bad for that -- hell, low Clarity actually ''benefits'' some rolls involving fae magic. It's a choice you make. Wyrd, like all the other supernatural power stats in WoD, is not equivalent to "levels" á là ''[[Dungeons & Dragons]]''; you can always spend your experience on other things. Werewolves use Harmony because ''they're not human.'' Changelings use Clarity as a gauge to ''keep their human side relevant.'' If you're spending experience on high Clarity and continuing to favor fae matters over human concerns, you really don't have room to complain. |
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[[Category:Games/Headscratchers]] |
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