No Honor Among Thieves: Difference between revisions

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* ''[[Star Wars]]''. Somewhat in the films, but above all in the EU, the Sith, and later the Empire, have a nasty tendency to gain the ascendancy and then lose badly when they start turning on each other.
* ''[[Star Wars]]''. Somewhat in the films, but above all in the EU, the Sith, and later the Empire, have a nasty tendency to gain the ascendancy and then lose badly when they start turning on each other.
** Darth Bane's Rule of Two was an explicit attempt to mitigate the damage that this could do to the Sith by "legitimizing" it -- there were to only be two Sith, the Master to have the power and [[Klingon Promotion|the Apprentice to crave/take it]].
** Darth Bane's Rule of Two was an explicit attempt to mitigate the damage that this could do to the Sith by "legitimizing" it -- there were to only be two Sith, the Master to have the power and [[Klingon Promotion|the Apprentice to crave/take it]].
* ''[[Pirates of the Caribbean (Film)|Pirates of the Caribbean]]'' has Will Turner comment "No heroes amongst thieves, eh?" when Jack tells him part of the Pirates Code; "Any man who falls behind is left behind". Of course, all the good pirates ignore this for the rest of the series.
* ''[[Pirates of the Caribbean]]'' has Will Turner comment "No heroes amongst thieves, eh?" when Jack tells him part of the Pirates Code; "Any man who falls behind is left behind". Of course, all the good pirates ignore this for the rest of the series.
* In ''[[Tangled]]'', Flynn betrays fellow fellow thieves, the Stabbington brothers, early in the movie.
* In ''[[Tangled]]'', Flynn betrays fellow fellow thieves, the Stabbington brothers, early in the movie.
* The hero in ''[[Dungeons and Dragons (Film)|Dungeons and Dragons]]'' goes to a Thieves' Guild for help and to get an artifact he needs. When the head of said guild sells him out, he incredulously asks, "What happened to honor among thieves?" Said guild leader basically laughs in his face for having such a silly idea.
* The hero in ''[[Dungeons and Dragons (film)|Dungeons and Dragons]]'' goes to a Thieves' Guild for help and to get an artifact he needs. When the head of said guild sells him out, he incredulously asks, "What happened to honor among thieves?" Said guild leader basically laughs in his face for having such a silly idea.
** This is after the hero specifically tells his reluctant partner, a young female mage whose mentor was betrayed and killed by a fellow mage, that a thief would never betray another thief.
** This is after the hero specifically tells his reluctant partner, a young female mage whose mentor was betrayed and killed by a fellow mage, that a thief would never betray another thief.
* The opening scene of ''[[The Dark Knight]]'' illustrates the way Joker's henchmen kill each other for a bigger share of the loot.
* The opening scene of ''[[The Dark Knight]]'' illustrates the way Joker's henchmen kill each other for a bigger share of the loot.
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* ''[[Redwall]]''
* ''[[Redwall]]''
* ''[[Dragonlance]]''
* ''[[Dragonlance]]''
* ''The [[Wheel of Time]]'' allows just as much ... [[Poor Communication Kills|individualism]] among the antagonists as the protagonists. Indeed, one member of the Black Ajah speculates that the [[Sealed Evil in A Can|Dark One]] may select for treachery among his servants. Back when there were more than 13 random [[The Dragon|Forsaken]], however, they had apparently worked well enough together to be on the verge of winning the war.
* ''The [[Wheel of Time]]'' allows just as much ... [[Poor Communication Kills|individualism]] among the antagonists as the protagonists. Indeed, one member of the Black Ajah speculates that the [[Sealed Evil in a Can|Dark One]] may select for treachery among his servants. Back when there were more than 13 random [[The Dragon|Forsaken]], however, they had apparently worked well enough together to be on the verge of winning the war.
* The wizard-run British Government in ''[[The Bartimaeus Trilogy]]'' is vastly corrupt and falling apart, because a wizard's standard childhood and upbringing teaches them to value their own ambitions over anything else.
* The wizard-run British Government in ''[[The Bartimaeus Trilogy]]'' is vastly corrupt and falling apart, because a wizard's standard childhood and upbringing teaches them to value their own ambitions over anything else.
* In [[Matthew Reilly]]'s books ''The Six Sacred Stones'' and ''The Five Greatest Warriors'', several factions of bad guys are forced to work together to complete the tasks necessary to save the world and gain Ultimate Power. They are even forced to work with the heroes from time to time. Needless to say, they don't trust each other and try to backstab each other at every opportunity.
* In [[Matthew Reilly]]'s books ''The Six Sacred Stones'' and ''The Five Greatest Warriors'', several factions of bad guys are forced to work together to complete the tasks necessary to save the world and gain Ultimate Power. They are even forced to work with the heroes from time to time. Needless to say, they don't trust each other and try to backstab each other at every opportunity.
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== Live Action TV ==
== Live Action TV ==
* In one episode of ''[[My Name Is Earl (TV)|My Name Is Earl]]'' the criminal community (i.e. all) of Camden turn on Earl when he reports the theft of a car to the police, calling him a snitch. However when one of the criminals gets picked up on Earl's info they in turn accuse another member of their community who has committed a more serious crime in order to get immunity for themselves. Earl makes sure he is standing outside the police station as they get released to let them know he knows that they too have "snitched", and that all their bragging of thieves hanging together is just that, empty bragging as there really is No Honour Among Thieves.
* In one episode of ''[[My Name Is Earl]]'' the criminal community (i.e. all) of Camden turn on Earl when he reports the theft of a car to the police, calling him a snitch. However when one of the criminals gets picked up on Earl's info they in turn accuse another member of their community who has committed a more serious crime in order to get immunity for themselves. Earl makes sure he is standing outside the police station as they get released to let them know he knows that they too have "snitched", and that all their bragging of thieves hanging together is just that, empty bragging as there really is No Honour Among Thieves.
** Earl reported the theft because it was his car and the thieves did not want to give it back. In the old days the thieves would have returned it to him as a courtesy to a fellow thief. However, since Earl has gone straight, they felt that he was no longer covered by that Honour Among Thieves tradition.
** Earl reported the theft because it was his car and the thieves did not want to give it back. In the old days the thieves would have returned it to him as a courtesy to a fellow thief. However, since Earl has gone straight, they felt that he was no longer covered by that Honour Among Thieves tradition.
*** Of course, by that same token, they have no right to complain on his "snitching". It's a two-way street.
*** Of course, by that same token, they have no right to complain on his "snitching". It's a two-way street.
* In ''[[Community (TV)|Community]]'' episode "[[Community (TV)/Recap/S1 E23 Modern Warfare|Modern Warfare]]", Pierce betrays Starburns while they're stealing from the vending machines.
* In ''[[Community]]'' episode "[[Community/Recap/S1 E23 Modern Warfare|Modern Warfare]]", Pierce betrays Starburns while they're stealing from the vending machines.
* Michael Westen [[Discussed Trope|discusses]] this trope in the ''[[Burn Notice (TV)|Burn Notice]]'' episode "Seek and Destroy":
* Michael Westen [[Discussed Trope|discusses]] this trope in the ''[[Burn Notice]]'' episode "Seek and Destroy":
{{quote| '''Michael:''' There are always going to be trust issues when you run a criminal enterprise. If you steal with a man, he knows you're a thief. If you kill with a man, he knows you're a killer. It's a huge management issue.}}
{{quote| '''Michael:''' There are always going to be trust issues when you run a criminal enterprise. If you steal with a man, he knows you're a thief. If you kill with a man, he knows you're a killer. It's a huge management issue.}}


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* ''[[Warhammer]]''. Chaos, Orcs and Skaven especially.
* ''[[Warhammer]]''. Chaos, Orcs and Skaven especially.
* Titan Avatars in ''[[Scion]]'' are frequently at loggerheads. Muspelheim's avatars (Prometheus in particular) all plan to waylay Surtr once Ragnarok is over. The Drowned Road's two strongest avatars, Mami Wata and Ran, ''act'' aligned but will someday go for each other's throats, while Nu sits in the background and makes its own plots. Terra is led by Gaia, but the other avatars are open to offers. Sobe-no-Kumi is led by Mikaboshi... only because he arranged for Erebus to be pinned down in a deep part of the Titan. The list goes on; the only Titan without avatar issues is Akhenaten, and that's because Aten is its ''only'' avatar.
* Titan Avatars in ''[[Scion]]'' are frequently at loggerheads. Muspelheim's avatars (Prometheus in particular) all plan to waylay Surtr once Ragnarok is over. The Drowned Road's two strongest avatars, Mami Wata and Ran, ''act'' aligned but will someday go for each other's throats, while Nu sits in the background and makes its own plots. Terra is led by Gaia, but the other avatars are open to offers. Sobe-no-Kumi is led by Mikaboshi... only because he arranged for Erebus to be pinned down in a deep part of the Titan. The list goes on; the only Titan without avatar issues is Akhenaten, and that's because Aten is its ''only'' avatar.
* ''[[Exalted]]'' pretty much says flat-out that even if the [[Demon Lords and Archdevils|Yozis]]' grand attempt at [[Hell On Earth|the Reclamation]] is successful in any way, the Ebon Dragon is going to turn on the other Yozis and try to keep them permanently locked up in Malfeas while he alone escapes. Why? Because he's the ''[[God of Evil|Ebon Fucking Dragon]]''.
* ''[[Exalted]]'' pretty much says flat-out that even if the [[Demon Lords and Archdevils|Yozis]]' grand attempt at [[Hell on Earth|the Reclamation]] is successful in any way, the Ebon Dragon is going to turn on the other Yozis and try to keep them permanently locked up in Malfeas while he alone escapes. Why? Because he's the ''[[God of Evil|Ebon Fucking Dragon]]''.


== [[Theatre]] ==
== [[Theatre]] ==
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* ''[[Knights of the Old Republic]]''. The Sith are ''rife'' with this problem throughout both the game itself and the backstory. Of particular note: the encouraged [[Chronic Backstabbing Disorder]] of the Sith leads to [[Big Bad|Malak]] attempting to kill his own master Revan, which deprives the Sith of their previous [[Magnificent Bastard]] leader and starts the chain of events that finally leads to Sith defeat.
* ''[[Knights of the Old Republic]]''. The Sith are ''rife'' with this problem throughout both the game itself and the backstory. Of particular note: the encouraged [[Chronic Backstabbing Disorder]] of the Sith leads to [[Big Bad|Malak]] attempting to kill his own master Revan, which deprives the Sith of their previous [[Magnificent Bastard]] leader and starts the chain of events that finally leads to Sith defeat.
** In the sequel, the Sith Triumvirate nearly succeeds in wiping out the Jedi. Then Darth Traya's apprentices, Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus, turn on her and then on each other. This allows Darth Traya to {{spoiler|help the player in hunting them down}}.
** In the sequel, the Sith Triumvirate nearly succeeds in wiping out the Jedi. Then Darth Traya's apprentices, Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus, turn on her and then on each other. This allows Darth Traya to {{spoiler|help the player in hunting them down}}.
* ''[[War Craft]]''. In game, merely used as an excuse for [[Civil Warcraft]], the later backstory makes it clear that [[The Horde|the Orcish Horde]] lost the second war because Gul'dan and Orcish clans loyal to him abandoned the Warchief at a decisive moment in favor of Gul'dan's own plans to find [[Sealed Evil in A Can|Sargeras]].
* ''[[Warcraft]]''. In game, merely used as an excuse for [[Civil Warcraft]], the later backstory makes it clear that [[The Horde|the Orcish Horde]] lost the second war because Gul'dan and Orcish clans loyal to him abandoned the Warchief at a decisive moment in favor of Gul'dan's own plans to find [[Sealed Evil in a Can|Sargeras]].
** To be fair, Gul'dan never planned to stay loyal. He was always the true power behind the previous Warchief Blackhand. Orgrim betrayed Blackhand and then threatened to kill Gul'dan. Gul'dan swore loyalty, planning on breaking his oath the moment he saw fit.
** To be fair, Gul'dan never planned to stay loyal. He was always the true power behind the previous Warchief Blackhand. Orgrim betrayed Blackhand and then threatened to kill Gul'dan. Gul'dan swore loyalty, planning on breaking his oath the moment he saw fit.
** In fact, it was Orgrim's own sense of honor that doomed the Horde more than Gul'dan's betrayal. Not wanting Gul'dan to escape unpunished, he sent a huge chunk of his own forces to hunt him down. Not only did it force him to lift his siege of Lordaeron, but the forces sent after Gul'dan suffered heavy losses killing the traitor clans and were then further obliterated on the way back by a surprise attack at sea by Admiral Proudmoore, leaving only a few thousand warriors. Had Orgrim chosen to continue the siege instead of seeking revenge, he would have razed Lordaeron, likely winning the war.
** In fact, it was Orgrim's own sense of honor that doomed the Horde more than Gul'dan's betrayal. Not wanting Gul'dan to escape unpunished, he sent a huge chunk of his own forces to hunt him down. Not only did it force him to lift his siege of Lordaeron, but the forces sent after Gul'dan suffered heavy losses killing the traitor clans and were then further obliterated on the way back by a surprise attack at sea by Admiral Proudmoore, leaving only a few thousand warriors. Had Orgrim chosen to continue the siege instead of seeking revenge, he would have razed Lordaeron, likely winning the war.
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