Pay Evil Unto Evil: Difference between revisions

{{trope}}

 

So the character descends upon the settlement, burns their buildings, kills the inhabitants, takes their money and resources, and leaves, pleased that now he'll be able to buy that shiny new whatever he was wanting.

Welcome to a special kind of morality where [[Moral Myopia|otherwise evil actions are considered okay]] because [[Asshole Victim|the victims deserved it]]. Of course, this can be [[Family-Unfriendly Aesop|played straight]], [[What the Hell, Hero?|subverted]], [[He Who Fights Monsters|deconstructed]], or [[Black and Gray Morality|left disquietingly gray]] depending on the author. Occasionally shares space with [[Evil Versus Evil]]... it's the Evil who ''only'' does this one that's supposed to be rooted for as opposed to the Evil that does this to innocents. This one's very common with [[Revenge]] stories in general, since revenge at its core is essentially Paying Evil Unto Evil.

 

 

Sometimes this is done ''retroactively.'' If the hero does something incredibly horrible to someone, it will ''then'' be revealed that this person was really evil all along.

It is also a common and effective way to give a [[Sympathetic POV]] to a [[Villain Protagonist]] in works with [[Grey and Black Morality]].

 

 

 

== Anime and Manga ==

* Kenshiro prefers to let the villains that he punishes feel the agony of the victims they butchered as he sends them to the afterlife in ''[[Fist of the North Star]]'', letting the punishment fit the crime. Since they are rapists and child-killers, you don't need to feel any guilt laughing at them as they beg like dogs for their worthless lives.

** It was pointed out in the very beginning that Hokuto Shinken was never really designed to be used on so many people, precisely because it is so cruel.

* Lina Inverse of ''[[Slayers]]'' uses this trope to justify blowing up bandits and taking their cash. Many in her world consider her ''worse'' than the bandits because of the resulting of property damage, to the point her friends are never too surprised when she actually does get in trouble with the authorities.

* Alucard in ''[[Hellsing]]'' is a perfect example (especially in the manga/OVA). He's a complete monster, and he acknowledges it, even reveling in it; sometimes he actively prolongs someone's death, just for the fun of it. However, Integra frequently tells him to destroy anything in his way, even though she knows his methods. Admittedly, fewer people would have qualms about doing horrible things to Nazis. {{spoiler|Or Enrico Maxwell and his Iscariot agents.}}

* ''[[Ranma ½]]'' is full of [[Jerkass]] characters, so there's rarely a shortage of [[Asshole Victim|asshole victims]]. One particular instance occurs after Ranma has mastered the Hiryuu Shoten-Ha, which he's trying to use against Happousai. Mousse, Kuno, Principal Kuno and Gosunkugi all charge into the battle to take on Ranma as well; nice guy that he is, Ranma hesitates to use his new attack out of concern they'll all be caught in the massive blast. ''Then'' Ranma remembers how the same four characters had earlier viciously ganged up on him when he was too weak to defend himself. He promptly launches the attack.

* [[Pokémon (anime)|Ash]] and friends are normally perfectly content to allow the [[Big Bad]] to be quietly arrested, but in dealing with Grings Kodai, the [[Big Bad]] of ''[[Pokémon: Zoroark: Master of Illusions|Pokémon Zoroark Master of Illusions]]'', they, and even the cops, arranged for him to watch as his [[Evil Gloating]] is broadcast live on his own TV station, pretty much forcing him to watch his public humiliation. While harsh for them, Kodai was an absolute [[Complete Monster]] who {{spoiler|committed the anime's first true murder of a Pokémon}} and ''electrocuted a '''BABY''''' right in front of its mother with no remorse.

* Invoked by Yuu from ''[[Holyland]]'' before he {{spoiler|fights Taka in Masaki's stead.}} "All I know is that I will answer malice... with violence."

* As [[Code Breaker|Ogami Rei's]] motto states "Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, evil for evil".

* In [[Toriko]], Zebra of the Four Emperors was imprisoned fro life for single-handedly hunting 26 different species to extinction. However, we later find out that they all messed up the ecosystems they were in, and quite possibly they were vicious, mindless living weapons sent there by an enemy.

** In Anette XXX two girls harassed and bullied her little brothers for all their lives. The two guys conspire to rape each other's sister.

* In ''[[Saint Beast]]'', purging angels is about the worst thing you can do to them and [[Physical God|Zeus]] does it to make heaven pure.

 

== Comic Books ==

** The Marvel MAX arc, "The Slavers". In it, Castle's fighting a group of war criminals turned human traffickers. That guy he douses with fuel and is about to set alight was one of the three ringleaders of the operation. Let's just say Castle spends the rest of the arc using other inventive methods to mete out payback.

** Lampshaded in one comic where a victim that he left helpless in a gasoline doused house is screaming that he's no different from her. The Punisher turns back to the mansion with a grenade, calmly replies "Tell me something I don't know," and pulls the pin.

** This is shown even more in ''[[Batman: Under the Red Hood]]''. It starts with Joker beating Jason senselessly with a crowbar, and then killing him with a bomb. It ends with Jason beating Joker back with a crowbar, and then attempting to kill ''him'' with a bomb!

{{quote|'''Jason:''' I'm not talking about killing Penguin, or Scarecrow, or Dent...I'm talking about ''him''. '''Just''' '''''him!''''' And doing it because...he took me away from you.}}

 

 

* ''[[Nobody Dies]]'' has Rei (yes, ''[[Neon Genesis Evangelion|that]]'' Rei) executing very cruel tricks on people who mess with her friends. Other than her love of blackmail, her most cruel thing was to film Kyoko Zeppelin getting it on with her ex-husband in a storage closet during the school dance then put the footage on Youtube. And [[Magnificent Bastard|Yui]] [[Authority Equals Asskicking|forbid taking it down]]. Why? The bitch [[Complete Monster|ruined her daughter's happiest moment in life out of sadism]]. Rei had to be specifically ordered to leave Kyoko alone when it looked like as if she was regularly beating Asuka (even though no one liked this order one bit, Misato had to be physically restrained from issuing a [[No-Holds-Barred Beatdown]]). It helps that everyone is apeshit afraid of Rei and she knows it very well.

{{quote|'''Rei''': Asuka is my friend and if you touch her... ''(psychotic grin)'' I touch you. 'Kay?}}

* In the fanfic ARSENAL, the three troubleshooters hired by Gendo to retake control of Nerv are punished for the horrific actions they performed (the least of which being murdering dozens of civilians evacuating Tokyo-3 on the eve of an Angel attack) in horrifying ways. Quite a few fans were disquieted by their punishments, considering them too brutal.

* Rose Potter has this philosophy in ''[[The Girl Who Lived]]'', only she applies it to characters who [[What Do You Mean It's Not Heinous?|don't really even do anything that evil]]. [[Jerk Sue|Or anyone who happens to annoy her.]] Okay, she's basically just evil herself, [[Dissimile|but she fits this trope otherwise]].

* ''[[Ponies Make War]]'': Twilight Sparkle's brutal execution of [[The Dragon|General Esteem]] borders on the [[Moral Event Horizon]], but considering that the latter willingly sold out the entire world to [[Big Bad|Titan]], {{spoiler|is the one who turned Twilight into [[Super-Powered Evil Side|Nihilus]], and just confessed to killing and ''eating'' Spike,<ref>though this turns out to be a final spiteful lie</ref>}} it was probably still better than he deserved.

 

* In ''[[Transformers: Dark of the Moon]]'' the Wreckers tore a Decepticon pilot limb from limb, said Con was vaporizing civilians for several seconds before.

* In ''[[Let the Right One In]]'', the bullies who have tormented Oskar throughout the movie are joined by the older brother of one of them who plans to force Oskar to stay underwater for three whole minutes in the school swimming pool -if he can't, they'll cut Oskar's eye out with a knife. After a minute of this, Eli crashes into the swimming pool through the skylight and literally rips them apart. The audience never considers Eli to be evil for doing this. She was saving Oskar's life and the bullies had previously shown themselves to be [[Complete Monster|sadistic bullies]] who enjoyed hurting Owen simply because they could.

 

 

* In [[Tom Clancy]]'s ''Without Remorse'', John Kelly is an ex-Navy SEAL who falls for an ex-prostitute/drug mule and rehabilitates her, only to see her raped and murdered by her former pimp. He spends the next year hunting down and brutally executing the entire drug ring, working his way up the chain one pusher/pimp at a time. This comes to the attention of the CIA, who are simultaneously recruiting him for a Vietnam rescue mission; when they find out what he did, they arrange for his "Kelly" identity to die in an apparent suicide, and they give him a new identity as "John Clark". Much later in the series, the President of the United States pardons him.

* The later ''[[Sword of Truth]]'' books feature, among other things, the hero leading a charge ''through'' peace protesters with, essentially, this justification (said protesters, it should be noted, were guarding an army of [[Complete Monster|complete monsters]], but Richard could have made an ''effort'' to [[Take a Third Option]]), and sending his army to attack cities and other settlements that are supporting the Imperial Order, basically a strategy of total war. The justification given is that it would be impossible to beat the Order in a straight up fight, since they're outnumbered 100 to 1. Richard notably orders his troops '''''not''''' to kill civilians if it can be avoided, but that they should still make them afraid of the D'Haran troops.

** Gryffindors also take the opportunity to pay evil unto the oft-deserving Slytherins, James and Sirius bully the racist and dark-magic-obsessed Snape, and Hagrid and Fred and George punish Harry's bullying cousin Dudley with jinxes, although Arthur Weasley doesn't find his sons' behavior funny. Also, Sirius treats Kreacher quite nastily, an odd case as Kreacher is one of the most unlikeable victims in the series, but also served as one of the examples where the good perpetrator was seriously criticized for his bad actions, because Sirius is in a position of authority over Kreacher (Kreacher, as a house elf, is magically impelled to obey him).

** Hermione hexes the girl who sold out the DA, and in doing so left Hogwarts under the control of a sadistic teacher who tortured children, by raising pimples on her forehead which spell out that she's a traitor, and last for several months at the least. [[J. K. Rowling]] confirmed that Marietta's pimples faded but left a few scars. Hermione ''also'' lures said sadistic teacher into being attacked by centaurs, although admittedly that went further than Hermione had originally intended. She also blackmails Rita Skeeter for writing a false article that caused Hermione to be showered with hate mail. Don't mess with Hermione Granger - she's got a ruthless side.

* The [[Sherlock Holmes]] story ''[[wikipedia:The Adventure of the Devil's Foot|The Adventure of the Devil's Foot]]''. Holmes lets the murderer go free when he realizes what a complete monster the victim was.

** Conan Doyle uses this trope several times, when his sympathies lie with the criminal rather than the victim. Other stories that use it include ''[[wikipedia:The Adventure of the Abbey Grange|The Adventure of the Abbey Grange]]'' (The murdered husband habitually battered his wife.) and ''[[wikipedia:The Adventure of Charles Augustus Milverton|The Adventure of Charles Augustus Milverton]]'' (because he knows who the killer is, why Milverton was murdered, and that he was a blackmailer of the vilest sort, he declines to even assist the police.)

* In various parts of the ''Inferno,'' Dante kicks, beats, or swindles the damned souls, always with the approval of his guide Virgil. Justified (in the context of the poem, at least) in that the victims genuinely ''are'' damned souls who have been condemned by God for their sins, and ''pitying'' them would be an act of ''impiety''.

* Subverted in ''[[The Hobbit]]'', which quite possibly was the most important act in the series. {{spoiler|After getting away from Gollum using the Ring to become invisible, Bilbo has a perfect chance to kill Gollum for trying to kill and eat him after losing the riddle game... But chooses not to after realizing what a miserable life the creature had.}}

* [[Book of Amber|Chronicles of Amber]] describes his attitude at one point:

{{quote|In the mirrors of the many judgments, my hands are the color of blood. I am a part of the evil that exists in the world and in Shadow. I sometimes fancy myself an evil which exists to oppose other evils. I destroy [them] when I find them, and on that Great Day ... when the world is completely cleansed of evil, then I, too, will go down into darkness, swallowing curses... But whatever... Until that time, I shall not wash my hands nor let them hang useless.}}

* Maybe not evil ''per se'', but Extirpon's means of dealing with the scumbags he battles is pretty extreme, being a [[Reality Warper]] and all. Probably the best example of him crossing a line is when he slits a child rapist's throat and then makes a large container appear out of nowhere in the apartment. He promptly locks his victim in the container, then floods it to drown him. Turns out, the victim was the same guy that had [[Stuffed Into the Fridge|drowned and later decapitated one of Extirpon's past lovers]]. This is ''after'' forcing the [[Mooks]] to cough up [[Why Did It Have to Be Snakes?|green mambas]], which bite and kill them.

* ''Sisterhood'' series by [[Fern Michaels]]: Overuse of this trope is a major cause in losing all sympathy for the Sisterhood. ''Vendetta'' has the Sisterhood capture the Chinese ambassador's son who drunkenly killed Barbara Rutledge and her unborn child in a hit and run, and was not punished due to [[Diplomatic Impunity]]. They punish him for this, by ''skinning him alive'', and then shrugging it off afterward! He was a creep and not a nice guy, but he simply did not deserve ''that'' level of punishment! The author actually tries to justify all this by saying that the law is unable to punish criminals, and seriously expect you to cheer on the Vigilantes when they inflict terrible punishments on their targets! It's too bad you find yourself feeling sorry for their targets instead of the protagonists themselves!

 

* ''[[Dexter]]'' is a serial murderer who only kills other murderers. He identifies himself as a monster though.

* Omar Little of ''[[The Wire]]'' is a renowned stick-up man who only robs from people involved in the drug trade. The police pretty much turn a blind eye to this.

** Chapel often doesn't go out of his way to get people killed, it's a result of the show's formula. If people survived his scams it would quickly get around that he's not who he says he is. There are also times when he really is trying to make sure they die, though.

* In ''[[Smallville]]'', Davis Bloome was more or less forced into this; he has a choice between killing a couple criminals every so often and doing nothing (which allows his [[Super-Powered Evil Side]] to take over and massacre a bunch of innocents).

* Happens a few times in ''[[Farscape]]'', though they're usually forced into it by the bad guys. One example: In order to save D'Argo's son (and 9,999 other slaves), our heroes plan to rob a bank, justifying their actions by saying it's a "shadow depository", ie, where bad guys hide the stuff they steal.

* At some points in ''[[Sabrina the Teenage Witch (TV series)|Sabrina the Teenage Witch]]'', it can be argued that [[Alpha Bitch|Libby]] was the victim of bullying from Sabrina instead of the other way around. After all, being a [[Reality Warper]] gives you an unfair advantage. However, Sabrina seems to be maturing past this - now most of her morally questionable uses of magic against Libby are based on trying to redress wrongs or make Libby a better person, instead of simply hurting Libby. Sometimes she even uses it to do something nice for Libby, even knowing that Libby will most likely never know about it and certainly wouldn't return the favor if she did. (For example, in "Sabrina Claus", she has to take over for Santa Claus and her gift to Libby is to use magic to make Libby's [[Annoying Younger Sibling]] be nice to her. Possibly still morally questionable, depending on how you feel about magically influencing the free will of a child.)

* The main characters of ''[[Hustle]]'' only con the corrupt and the greedy. In one episode, they even call off a con when it becomes clear their supposedly evil target is reforming.

* [[Buffy the Vampire Slayer]]: Few mourned, and many cheered, when [[Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds|Dark Willow]] flayed [[Complete Monster|Warren Mears]] alive. Those that refrained from cheering did so not out of sympathy for Warren, but concern for Willow.

* ''Buffy'' [[Spin-Off]] ''[[Angel]]'' had a terrific example in Season 2. After coming across his archenemies from Wolfram & Hart being held hostage by Darla and Dru, Angel stands contemplative for a moment. Wolfram & Hart is an evil organisation with absolutely no qualms about murdering innocent people. Rather than save them, Angel locks the door and lets the vamps go to work. The formerly unflappable Holland Manners is terrified and begs, "People are going to die," to which Angel responds, "[[Ironic Echo|And yet somehow I just can't seem to care]]." Whilst harrowing in a sense, it doesn't stop seeing them get their karma from being wholly satisfying.

 

== Music ==

== Professional Wrestling ==

* Certain faces are able to get away with heel-like tactics because they're using them on heels.

 

 

 

== Tabletop Games ==

** Some Chaos Space Marine players even use this to make their army out to be less evil. Saying the empire has to go for the better of mankind.

* A published ''[[Call of Cthulhu (tabletop game)]]'' adventure, ''Digging Up a Dead God'', has the players playing Nazis on an archaeological expedition. Given that it's CoC, and it's almost guaranteed to kill or drive the characters insane by the end, well... Most people would say there's no group more deserving of a horrible ending.

* In ''[[Exalted]]'', Green Sun Princes can use this as a loophole to act as something resembling heroes. The terms of their servitude to the Yozis state that they absolutely ''have'' to behave in an appropriately evil manner... but the terms say nothing about ''who they have to target.'' They can solely target people as bad or worse than they are, and as long as they're [[Evil Is Hammy|sufficiently]] [[Contractual Genre Blindness|villainous]] in dispatching them, it doesn't risk Torment. The net result being that they're [[Dark Is Not Evil|no better or worse]] than any other Exalt, or totally deluded [[Complete Monster]]s, [[Depending on the Writer|depending on the campaign]].

** Renegade [[Our Vampires Are Different|Abyssals]] also deal in this, since their curse forces them to [[Enemy to All Living Things|kill living things]], without specifying which ones.

*** The Gothic D&D setting ''[[Ravenloft]]'' made this explicit with its "Powers Checks," a sort of [[Karma Meter]]. The severity of an evil deed was proportional to how good the victim was.

*** And with the Ravenloft Setting, [[The Hunter|Van Richten]] the resident Expert Monster Hunter strongly advises against [[Van Helsing Hate Crimes|indiscriminately slaughtering]] every creature that opposes them (Lycanthropes could be cured). And [[Game Master]]s are encouraged to curtail the 'Stab and Loot' mentality.

* A common video game trope, but especially visible in ''[[The Elder Scrolls]]''. By III and IV, most of the game is spent slaughtering humans and taking their stuff, leaving their cold and stripped bodies behind. Slaughtering bandits by the hundreds makes you no more infamous than you already are, even when stealing a single key would give infamy points.

** Lampshaded in the beginning of Morrowind. The local tavern owner at the starting town tells you that you're free to increase your skills on bandits, but if you try that on townsfolk it's called murder. He then points you in the direction of the closest bandit hideout. The guards will also tell you that outlaws legally have no rights, and you can deal with them as painfully as you want. Also lampshaded in Oblivion by the Countess of Leyawin: she says to go ahead and kill any outlaws you find and take their stuff: everybody on the right side of the law wins.

** Same in ''[[Mount & Blade]]''. Attacking Travellers or Lords generally brings you in trouble with their government except if they're enemies to begin with, but all kinds of bandits, looters and raiders are free to be killed or knocked unconscious and then sold into slavery. They provide a good source of money and experience and most adventurers that have not (yet) sworn allegiance to a kingdom will likely spend all day bandit-hunting. It also happens between kingdoms, raiding, killing travelling farmers and merchants is ok as long as they belong to the enemy side, while of course every Calradian kingdom believes to be the only one with a justified claim to the throne, so the others are obviously evil impostors.

* Aribeth's actions in [[Neverwinter Nights]] are more of [[Black and Grey Morality|pay evil unto very questionable]], but the idea is there.

** Officially he is sent to take down bad people, but anyone who compromises his identity to said underworld connections is also fair game.

* This trope is the central premise of ''[[Bully (video game)|Bully]]'', where Jimmy Hopkins, the new student at the worst school in the country, strives to stop the rampant bullying and create order between the cliques.

* In ''[[Escape Velocity]]'', blowing up ships and conquering planets doesn't make you very well liked by the surrounding systems (unless it's by an opposing faction.) Meanwhile, conquering [[Space Pirate]] worlds and bases then demanding they pay you tribute; nobody cares (pirates attack you regardless,) and one of the few 100% reliable ways to boost your [[Karma Meter]] with every faction is to shoot pirates and take their stuff. Curiously nobody demands that the System Lord try to shut down said pirates.

** Still, dominating entire worlds is such a notoriously evil act in ''EV'' that no matter who the planet once belonged to and where you are now, you'll always have to fend off [[Bounty Hunter]]s.

* ''[[Lightning Warrior Raidy]]'' features an erotic version of this with the boss battles in both games. Raidy always encounters level bosses in the middle of sexually tormenting a kidnapped NPC in a variety of ways; if she loses the ensuing boss battle, the game over sequence features the boss subjecting Raidy to this treatment, but if Raidy wins, she gives them a taste of their own medicine.

* In ''[[Might and Magic]] 2'' characters who entered certain valleys could discover peaceful goblin villages. They could then choose to attack them and slaughter them all, likely leaving any surviving children who hid from your murderous rampage orphans who will vow vengeance upon humanity for your actions; but since they're monsters and you're heroes it's okay!

* Many sidequests in ''[[The Godfather (video game)|The Godfather]] 2'' involve you dealing injury to the person or property of those who have done injustice against the quest-givers.

 

== Web Comics ==

* Oasis from ''[[Sluggy Freelance]]'' adopts this practice when she becomes Podunkton's resident vigilante. Most characters in this storyline have at least a couple moments where they're uneasy about Oasis's casual attitude towards murdering criminals, but considering her history as a [[Brainwashed]] assassin and [[Yandere]], this is still seen as a step in the right direction.

** Plus they're all too terrified to actually ''do'' anything about it.

** Recently an interesting case of values backlash has occurred. {{spoiler|Many issues ago the party came across and slew a dragon that was considered ''[[Exclusively Evil]]'' due to what kind of dragon it was. Many issues after that, paladin Miko's wrath at them for slaying a dragon was softened when she found out what kind it was. Cue even more issues later when Varsuvius the wizard cast a spell that ended up killing hundreds of dragons at a single shot, sparking a morality debate all across the forums. Then came [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0842.html this comic], a [[Wham! Episode]] that (along with [http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0843.html the following comic]) showed the full (unpleasant) ramifications of V's actions.}}

** The prequel book ''On the Origin of PCs'' had an interesting subversion of this: {{spoiler|Roy and Durkon meet up when they're with an adventuring party that's supposed to wipe out a group of unruly orcs. Roy manages to deduce that the orcs are just rowdy music fans in town for a concert, and decides to spare them... much to the chagrin of his party, who wanted the XP. That's when he and Durkon decide they really need to part ways with the rest of the party.}}

* ''[[Goblins]]'' has done a fair job of pulling up the monster view of this trope. The start of the comic features a goblin "war camp", but it is eventually revealed that the camp was established simply to distract heroes and keep them from going deeper into the forest and discovering the village where the women and children live.

** When the Fortuneteller confronted Forgath, she managed to [[Genre Savvy|point out to him the horror being inflicted on the goblins]]. For a brief moment, Forgath realized that their actions were even more evil than the goblins who had simply been arguing about various things in their camp. Then Fortuneteller ruined it...

 

== Web Original ==

* This is the rationale everyone has for setting {{spoiler|Dr. Insano}} on [[The Nostalgia Critic]] in ''[[Kickassia]]''. Notably, [[The Spoony Experiment|Spoony]] and [[Atop the Fourth Wall|Linkara]] disagreed. Spoony because he {{spoiler|[[Jekyll and Hyde|WAS]] Insano}}, and Linkara...well:

{{quote|'''Angry Joe:''' Sometimes the best way to deal with a madman is to send in another madman...

'''Linkara:''' [[Crowning Moment of Funny|Are you high?!]] }}

* In the ''[[Zero Punctuation]]'' review of ''[[Fallout: New Vegas]]'', Yahtzee mentions that since he stopped stealing everything that wasn't bolted down, he can now kill bandits with a smug sense of moral supieriority...before taking all of their stuff.

{{quote|"Which isn't stealing! They attacked me first, making it mine by Internatinal Law of 'Go F*ck Yourselves".}}

 

== Western Animation ==

*** The first of these amounting to a B-plot aesop about judging people. The [[Monster of the Week|ghost of the week]] showed up while Danny was getting his revenge on the Jock/Bully Dash, and jumps to the conclusion that ''Danny'' is the bully, irresponsibly using his powers to torment an undeserving victim. Ghost proceeds to expel Danny to a Ghost Zone area with the main plot being Danny trying to escape, while the B-plot had Possesed!Danny subtly using his powers to help and befriend Dash, who didn't act so terrible while this was going on.

* On ''[[Avatar: The Last Airbender]]'', Katara uses this logic to defend her theft of a Waterbending scroll: "Stealing is wrong... [[Spoof Aesop|unless it's from pirates]]." She conveniently forgets this two seasons later when she chides Toph for her gambling schemes, and Toph replies, "Hey, I only cheated because ''he'' was cheating. I cheated a cheater. What's wrong with that?" The kids '''''never''''' learn any [[Aesop]] contradicting this.

** Katara wasn't even complaining that the scams were wrong, but that they were likely to attract attention from potential enemies. {{spoiler|She's absolutely right.}}

** It may technically be a subversion as they eventually start scamming people who ''weren't'' cheating, and they ''still'' [[Refuge in Audacity|get away with it]].

{{quote|'''Katara''': I don't know if I want that kind of power...

'''Hama''': It doesn't matter whether you want it. The power exists. They tried to WIPE US OUT, Katara. This is war and you have to use whatever weapons are available to you. }}

* Very much the subject of [[Batman: Under the Red Hood]]. The villain, Red Hood, {{spoiler|who is actually Jason Todd, the 2nd Robin}} is trying to prove to Batman that his [[Thou Shalt Not Kill|code against killing]] is inadequate and he can be a better crime-fighter by just murdering criminals.

 

== Real Life ==

* Typically evil things such as murder or theft can be instead lawful or, in rare cases, morally obligated. Lethal force in self-defense or the defense of others is the most obvious.

** The initiation of war is a crime against peace under a number of statutes, most notably the [[United Nations]] charter, and was used against the Axis powers at the end of [[World War II]]. Anyone carrying out an aggressive war of conquest is thus a criminal. Unfortunately, while such acts are crimes, and are in theory punishable by the ICC under the Rome Statute, the ICC can't actually prosecute such cases because [[Screw the Rules, I Make Them|none of the U.N. member states have as yet agreed upon a definition of crimes of aggression in legal terms]]. Thus, the only warfare technically legal in the present day are wars carried out to impede the commission of crimes.

* The original meaning of "outlaw" was a status inflicted on criminals (by means of a "Writ of Outlawry"), which allowed anybody to do whatever they wanted to them, as they were "no longer protected by law." Expect this argument to be brought up in any debate on the treatment/interrogation of "enemy combatants."

* On that note Pirates were dubbed ''Hostis humani generis'' (enemy of mankind). Of course, nations were happy to hire "Privateers" who were essentially pirates that would only prey on ships belonging to nations you didn't like, so having one ally in mankind did have its advantages.

* Secret agents have been said to have jobs basically consisting of performing criminal acts outside their state's borders, justified by how the agents of their enemies are doing the same to their state: Trespassing, breaking and entering, theft, fraud, blackmail, kidnapping, murder...

* There have been interviews with Mob hitmen in which they defend themselves by saying that they only killed other gangsters. This is, however, demonstrably false.

* The [[Real Life]] sport of "mugu baiting." The objective is to string along a 419 scammer, getting them to waste as much time and money as possible and utterly humiliate themselves in their attempts to complete the scam, before finally breaking off contact. Embarrassing photos and emails will often be posted on baiting websites as trophies.

* The motto of the [[Dirty Cop|CRASH anti-gang squad]] that was at the heart of the 1990's [[Los Angeles]] Police Department Rampart scandal: "We Intimidate Those Who Intimidate Others."

* The traditional punishment for child molesters in some Native American cultures is reputed to have been: stripping the offender naked, coating him in tar, seating him on a log, nailing his offending organ to the log, handing him a dull knife, and then ''setting the log on fire''. Either he [[To the Pain|castrated himself very slowly]], or else he was burned alive. Either way, the punishment was considered appropriate to the crime.

* [[wikipedia:Dachau massacre|The Dachau Massacre]] is what happens when American soldiers run into a concentration camp that hasn't yet been abandoned by its guards, one of whom had the stones to [[Stupid Evil|kill an unarmed prisoner]] [[Too Dumb to Live|in plain view of approaching American soldiers]].

* When Osama bin Laden was killed by members of SEAL Team Six in 2011, there wasn't much complaint when it turned out he'd basically been executed by a government hit squad that wasn't particularly interested if Osama would be alive for trial, even by people usually critical of American military action or mistreatment of prisoners.

* Lynch mobs, at least when the person was genuinely guilty. "String em up!" being the catch phrase. Sort of justified during the Wild West when waiting for a circuit judge could take over a season and the natives are too angry about a murder/robbery/whatever to care about waiting.

* The killers in the racial [[wikipedia:Murder of Stephen Lawrence|murder of Stephen Lawrence]], where the only motive for the murder was the fact that Stephen was black, had constant abuse shouted at them when they were in the public eyes. The policemen leading the killers (who would ordinarily have arrested the shouters) didn't seem to mind (since it deflected a little blame for their taking so long to solve the case).

 

{{reflist}}

[[Category:Revenge Tropes]]

[[Category:Villain Ball]]

[[Category:Morality Tropes]]