Power Creep, Power Seep: Difference between revisions

merged "collectible card games" into "tabletop games"
(merged "collectible card games" into "tabletop games")
 
(12 intermediate revisions by 5 users not shown)
Line 1:
{{trope}}
{{quote|''"Superman, ''we'' are the greatest!"''|'''Muhammad Ali''', ''[[Superman]] vs. Muhammad Ali''}}
|'''Muhammad Ali''', ''[[Superman]] vs. Muhammad Ali''}}
 
A character who is designed in their own universe basically needs to be written to be effective against other characters featured in that universe. Generally, your main conflict won't be an eternal war between [[Crystal Dragon Jesus|Super Jesus]] and his nemesis [[Ridiculously Average Guy|Bob]].
Line 17 ⟶ 18:
 
{{examples}}
== Anime &and Manga ==
 
== Anime & Manga ==
* From ''[[Sonic the Hedgehog The Movie]]'', Knuckles the Echidna. In his [[Sonic 3 and Knuckles|first game appearance]], Knuckles had pretty weak jump height, but could glide through the air. In this OVA, he can jump ridiculously high and hover in mid-air; at times he appears to be flying outright.
** Still not as hard to believe it as what he did in Sonic 3, in the game's intro Knuckles punched Super Sonic in the face, not only Sonic lost his Super form in just one hit, but the way it was presented made it look like Super Sonic is nothing against Knuckles. We can only take in mind that at the time SEGA didn't intended to make Super Sonic the Cosmic Being that he turned out to be after the franchise went 3D.
* A crossover between ''[[Fairy Tail]]'' and ''[[Rave Master]]'' handles this by setting up the characters to imply that it's taking place fairly early in both stories, meaning none of the characters are too particularly powerful when they start to fight.
 
 
== Collectible Card Games ==
* This trope was at least partially the downfall of the anime CCG ''Ani-Mayhem''. The base set used ''[[Ranma ½]]'', ''[[Tenchi Muyo!]]'', ''[[Bubblegum Crisis]]'', and ''[[El Hazard]]''. So far so good. The first expansion set had ''[[Project A-ko]]'', ''[[Dominion Tank Police]]'', ''[[Phantom Quest Corp]]'', and ''[[Armitage III]]''. No problem here. The second expansion set? '''''[[Dragonball Z]]'''''<ref>covering the Frieza Saga, with extra characters like Future Trunks</ref>. The sheer power imbalance between both heroes and villains made it so there was little to no point to using any of the other characters, since the effort it took to bring them up to ''DBZ'''s level could have been better spent making the ''DBZ'' characters even stronger.
 
 
== Comic Books ==
* This tends to lead to major [[Fan Wank|issues]] when crossing the [[Marvel Universe]] and [[The DCU]]. Both companies have their share of characters ranging from [[Badass Unintentional|Badass Unintentionals]]s to [[Physical God|Physical Gods]]s, but the Marvel characters who are the most important in terms of both in-universe esteem and recognition and [[Real Life]] [[Popularity Power]] tend to be low on power levels in-universe compared to their DC counterparts, like [[Superman]]. This tends to lead to huge disproportionate power levels between the universes, at least when using the biggest names between the two, which tends to translate to stories that are mostly buildup to a bigger fight that can be used to muddle the individual fighters. One-on-ones are hit/miss; verses need buildup to get the weaker fighter either up to, or bringing the other down. Team-ups need stories where the more powerful will miss something important and therefore need the other to play the savior/[[Chessmaster|tactician]] role. Fans are rarely happy with any outcome.
** Most of Marvel's "Earth based" heroes tend to be a lot weaker than DC's, but Marvel's cosmic cast and pantheons tend to be stronger than DC's, even counting guys from the Vertigo line like the Endless.
** This is always a problem in Marvel vs. DC crossovers when it comes to [[Super Speed]] battles. Marvel speedsters rarely move much faster than the speed of sound, while DC speedsters are usually closer to the speed of light, a difference of six orders of magnitude (the difference between you and a jet is two orders of magnitude). Sometimes this difference is [[Hand Wave|ignored]], sometimes it's [[Lampshade Hanging|mocked]], and sometimes it's [[Justified Trope|justified]].
*** Two recent crossover battles shown between [[Quicksilver]] and [[The Flash]] were played for the jokes that they were. The only times Quicksilver was able to land a punch were when [[The Flash]] turned his back to help innocents and, in the later crossover, when [[The Flash]] encountered Quicksilver in the Marvel universe (which apparently has no Speed Force). Sadly, if they had just done the first fight a few years sooner, it would have been an even match (Wally's speed was dropped to Quicksilver level in the years immediately following ''[[Crisis on Infinite Earths]]'').
*** There was actually a [[Shout-Out]] to the enormous disparity in an issue of ''[[Quasar (comics)|Quasar]]''. A cosmic entity had gathered Earth's super-speedsters for a race from Earth to the Moon. At the last minute, ''all'' the contestants got blown past by [[The Flash|an amnesiac man in a tattered red-and-yellow costume]]. (This was back when Barry Allen was still dead, after the ''[[Crisis on Infinite Earths]]''.)
** One notorious example of this happened in the Marvel versus DC crossover, where [[Popularity Power|based on a fan poll]], [[Wolverine]] beat [[Lobo]]. Wolverine had bone claws at the time, while Lobo is as powerful as Superman, this should have been impossible. The comic sidestepped the problems by [[Take Our Word for It|not showing the battle]] -- in—in fact the whole thing was less than a page, from the introduction of Lobo to Wolvie standing and dusting off his hands. And all the fighting happened ''behind a bar''. It was later [[Hand Wave|implied]] in Lobo's own comic that the Main Man was paid under the table to throw the fight.
* In one issue of ''Amazing Spider-Man'', [[Spider-Man (Comic Book)|Spider-Man]], who's strong (lifts ten tons) but not one of the big hitters of the [[Marvel Universe]], beat the ''cosmically'' powerful Firelord in a hand-to-hand duel. On comic boards this trope is often named Spider-man vs the Firelord.
** Then again, when [[Spider-Man]] fights [[Silver Surfer]], he tends to smack him around pretty well. He often fights beyond his limits. The same can be said for the likes of [[Wolverine]] or [[Captain America (comics)]] as well. Sometimes, [[Wolverine Publicity]] does that with characters who are popular but not very powerful.
* One cross-company crossover between [[Spider-Man (Comic Book)|Spider-Man]] and [[Superman]] had [[Lex Luthor]] shoot Spidey with a "red-sun energy boost", making Big Blue vulnerable to his touch.
** This happens a lot to Spider-Man. In preparation for ''[[Civil War (Comic Book)|Civil War]]'', he had "''The Other''" story arc, which tied his powers to a mystical spider-totem. This gave him a major attribute boost and several new powers, ranging from enough speed and strength to catch bullets to spike weapons which protruded from his arms. {{spoiler|This was done so that when he became a fugitive at the end of ''Civil War'', he could feasibly fight off (and beat) more powerful heroes like Iron Man.}} Unfortunately, nobody bothered using Spider-Man's upgrades from "''The Other''" except [[Peter David]] so the storyline might as well not have happened. The only aspect of the story that anyone else bothered using was the Iron Spider costume.
Line 52 ⟶ 48:
*** A similar thing happens in ''[[The Batman]]'', where Supes is again under mind control (this time by Ivy's Mind Control Spores laced with Kryptonite dust). Batman not only cheats, he tries using a chunk of Kryptonite stolen from Lex Luthor, and when ''that'' doesn't work, he evens the odds a little by breaking out his [[Powered Armor|Bat-Mecha]] and is ''still'' on the verge of losing, but Robin breaks Superman out of the trance.
*** Batman v. Superman again in Frank Miller's [[The Dark Knight Returns]]. Justified in that Superman had recently almost died and lampshaded by Batman testing him with a few missiles. Also, Batman uses kryptonite and power gloves and Gotham's entire electrical grid. And the fight's more or less a draw (though the bat would have won).
**** In the end, however, the success rate for Batman's [[Crazy Prepared]]-ness depends on a ''lot'' of good luck and calculations working out the way he planned it. And Superman is still a guy who can kill you by ''looking at you''. None of the explanations and scenarios laid out by any writer for a Batman victory will be a 100% convincing.
* This is particularly bad in comics where [[The Punisher]] is the central character, especially as of lately. A [[What If]] was even written recently where Punisher managed to take out people like Magneto and [[The Mighty Thor]].
** "Punisher kills the Marvel Universe." On the other end of the scale, he teamed up with [[Archie Comics|Archie]].
Line 58 ⟶ 54:
* ''[[Lobo]]'' was mentioned a few times already, but he deserves some special attention. He has a noted knack for being just as powerful as whoever he's fighting. He's gone toe to toe with Superman in the past, but has also lost fights to Batman and other characters. It's to the point that his adaptable nature is actually part of his power set; one of his most notable features is his immune system, making him invulnerable to specific powers after being hurt by them at least once (the most promiment moment is when he's trapped in the body of a 'tweenager version of himself, because after being hit with the spell that de-aged him he immediately became immune to that type of magic, and thus counterspells wouldn't work).
** Not to mention, while he is invulnerable and immortal, he can still get drunk (at least in earlier appearances, he gets so sloshed that Superman turns it to his advantage in one early battle).
* In the ''[[Alien vs. Predator]]'' franchise, the Predators can take out Aliens in hand-to-hand combat with ease. This is strange because they only had one film appearance at the time -- intime—in ''[[Predator]]'' -- where—where the monster only fought in hand-to-hand once. While it was certainly ''strong'', it wasn't that impressive, with its unarmed strikes proving to be less than lethal. This is in contrast to the [[Alien]], whose fighting style consists entirely of critically-damaging unarmed strikes. This example is unique because the Alien and Predator monsters arguably began as interestingly balanced -- anbalanced—an unstoppable melee death-machine versus an invisible, cybertribal sniper --, but the Predators were given a large boost to serve the purpose the creators wanted for the comic, that being [[Anti-Hero|Anti-Heroism.]]
* An interesting example is Hank McCoy, aka The Beast. If you pick up a comic in which he is in the [[X-Men]], the writers tend to focus mostly on his intellect while his actual powers are secondary. When he was a member of [[The Avengers (Comic Book)|the Avengers]], his strength and agility were the main focus and his intellect was rarely brought up. This was because the Avengers had plenty of geniuses: Hank Pym, [[Iron Man]], The Vision, [[Black Panther]], etc. and didn't need another. Hank was a [[Lightning Bruiser]] so his abilities were bumped up to the point where he was nearly as strong as [[Iron Man]] and could move so fast that [[Captain America (comics)]] had trouble following him. When he went back to the X-Men, there were already a couple strongmen (Colossus and Rogue) and agile people (Nightcrawler, Gambit, Longshot, etc.). Even his animalistic nature was covered by [[Wolverine]]. They didn't have any geniuses, though, so Beast became [[The Smart Guy]] nearly on the level of [[Fantastic Four|Reed Richards]].
* ''[[Teen Titans (Comic Book)|Teen Titans]]'' antagonist Deathstroke also suffers from this. He can be portrayed as someone who can hold his own against members of the [[Justice League]], and be able to knock out the Flash, but also struggle against someone like [[Nightwing]].
** Although, given that Nightwing is essentially Batman-in-waiting, this could be a case of Nightwing rising to the challenge rather than Deathstroke getting a demotion. It also helps that Nightwing is more familiar with Deathstroke than probably any other hero...
Line 80 ⟶ 76:
 
 
== Live-Action TelevisionTV ==
* ''[[That Mitchell and Webb Look]]'' parodies this with Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit. Angel Summoner can summon hordes of invisible, superhuman angels at will. BMX Bandit is very good at BMXing.
 
 
== Professional Wrestling ==
* Happens from time to time in the [[World Wrestling Entertainment|WWE]] and other promotions; where characters who are being pushed have power creep, and those who are acting as jobbers have power seep. For instance, the Big Show used to fit the role of the [[Worf Effect|big guy who always lost to up-and-coming stars]], then with little explanation, became the man who ended Brock Lesnar's title reign. Often combined with [[Badass Decay]] for the people who are jobbing.
** It's even more funny when the "C-show" ECW was still on. The ECW champion can be treated as a worthy opponent to the other champions or as effective as a jobber, depending on the storyline needs.
 
Line 99 ⟶ 95:
* Solars [[Curb Stomp Battle|Curb Stomp]] just about everything in their own setting too, given an equal amount of experience points. That's not a bug but a feature, since the default game is about playing [[A God Am I|a superhuman hero]] who is [[The Ace|invariably the best there is at what she does.]] However, there are many other playable character types in ''[[Exalted]]'', and the difficulty of having a mixed group of player characters without the Solars [[Incredibly Lame Pun|outshining]] everyone else is a cause of much aggravation among fans.
* The Palladium RPG ''[[Rifts]]'' was notorious for this. In the original book, Cyber-Knights (simply noble humans with cybernetic augmentations and the ability to create a moderately powerful blade of psychic energy) were respectable combatants, and the Glitter Boy was rightly feared as one of the most powerful war machines on the planet. By the time we get to the Phase World supplement, we get Cosmo-Knights, a playable class. These characters could fly through space at translight speed, were nearly invulnerable to non-kinetic energies (and very durable against kinetic ones), and could fire anti-starship level energy blasts.
** Those particular examples could be justified due to the differences in scale of the respective settings (Post-Apocalyptic North America vs. Intergalactic Space Opera). But then there's the case of the Cyber-Knights' reintroduction in their own self-titled book, where to keep up with the stuff introduced between the main book and then, Cyber-Knights got bumped to nearly [[Star Wars|Jedi]]-like levels.
* Endemic in ''[[Star Wars]] Miniatures'', since a player can set any faction from any era against any other and end up more or less balanced, depending solely on your team selection. So weapons were about as effective 4,000 years apart.
* The ''[[Rogue Trader]]'' and ''[[Deathwatch (game)|Deathwatch]]'' role-playing games are based on the same rules as those of ''[[Dark Heresy]]'', and there are rules for including characters from ''Dark Heresy'' in both systems. In the case of ''Rogue Trader'', this involves boosting the characters from ''Dark Heresy'' to about 1/3rd of their maximum obtainable power in their home rules system. In the case of ''Death Watch'', it involves boosting said characters to a level more powerful than the core ''Dark Heresy'' ruleset has rules for, and using the ''Ascension'' splatbook. In both cases the ''Dark Heresy'' characters are still overall weaker, but far more customizable and specialized.
** Essentially, their stats are lower, true, but they tend to have far, far more raw skill and talent due to ''[[Dark Heresy]]''s very cheap skills and ''Ascension''s cheap paragon talents/skills (essentially a collection of related skills purchased as a package that costs less than the skills combined). And that doesn't count the raw level of influence that these characters can have, which is hard to really quantify. And that doesn't count the Ascended Psychic Powers, which all ''Ascension'' classes can get with the right talents... such as being able to control time, or creating a completely and utterly impenetrable barrier able to withstand all types of damage and prevent all creatures from going through it. Even more mundane ones such as [[Exactly What It Says on the Tin|bloodboil]] or the army-destroying Inferno, or being able to utterly crush and banish daemons with a thought. Likely only the Grey Knights in Daemonhunters have more powerful psychic powers.
* [[Dungeons and& Dragons]]: dancing around both sides of [[Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards]] problem.
** Initially Wizards' magic was unable to protect them from as much as a kitten chewing on one's ear, unless the spellcaster is prepared. Leading to magic-users being treated as [[Glass Cannon]] that must be protected by others at all times. In AD&D2 this was "solved" for high levels by buffing ''Stoneskin'' from "stop one attack" to "stay put indefinitely until an attack comes, then stop certain number of attacks". While by the letter of DMG [[Shooting Superman|being unable to harm the opponent]] calls for a Morale check. Still, let's weaken spellcasting disruption, right? 3e comes along, everyone who was complaining about [[Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards]] before just bursts in mad laughter, because now it's in fourth power or so. And the spellcasting disruption by attack is a min-max friendly skills check. Priests get the same, on top of having no problems with armor and generally not sucking in melee. Guess where this leads?
** Warriors used to employ the devious tactics of "hit it again, repeat untill one of you falls over", because... [[Padded Sumo Gameplay|there are no other variants]]. AD&D2 sourcebooks introduced styles and other tweaks, but mostly this boils down to flavours/permanent choice of [[Tactical Rock-Paper-Scissors]], so with a few exclusions almost any combat still can be described as: "shoot it with a bow until it comes close, then hit the nearest enemy with a melee weapon while trying to stand between it and the wizard" - and when not, it's thanks to spellcasters. ''Player's Option: Combat and Tactics'' got options that get rid of [[Padded Sumo Gameplay]], up to gain/give ground rules, but PO was rushed and didn't stick. 3e arrives and it's mostly back to square 1. Because feat mechanics mostly turned options into "choose your gimmick" permanent flavours. For some reason this doesn't work too well, so along comes the bright idea: "we don't know how to ''solve'' the problem, so let's ''circumvent'' it: give them a slice of those Quadratic Wizards' pie - [[Magic Knight|Weaboo Fightan Magic]](TM)!" Don't mind "boo! hiss!" sounds. Fast forward to 4e: "wizards are now unlimited, so... let's give W.F.M. to ''everyone''! And use nonsensical 'X times per day' limitations to fence off the obvious problem of spamming it. That's what called 'balance', right?". Well, no. It's the same "give those broken steroids to everyone so they will be equal" idea, only renamed and with extra [[What Do You Mean It Wasn't Made on Drugs%3F?|mushroom]] or ten.
* This trope was at least partially the downfall of the anime CCG ''Ani-Mayhem''. The base set used ''[[Ranma ½]]'', ''[[Tenchi Muyo!]]'', ''[[Bubblegum Crisis]]'', and ''[[El Hazard]]''. So far so good. The first expansion set had ''[[Project A-ko]]'', ''[[Dominion Tank Police]]'', ''[[Phantom Quest Corp]]'', and ''[[Armitage III]]''. No problem here. The second expansion set? '''''[[Dragonball Z]]'''''.<ref>covering the Frieza Saga, with extra characters like Future Trunks</ref>. The sheer power imbalance between both heroes and villains made it so there was little to no point to using any of the other characters, since the effort it took to bring them up to ''DBZ'''s level could have been better spent making the ''DBZ'' characters even stronger.
 
 
== Video Games ==
* Happens in crossover titles in video games as well, as evidenced in [[Capcom vs. Whatever|Capcom crossover games]]. This is something of a necessity; how else could you expect [[Street Fighter|Dan Hibiki or Sakura]] to fight, say, the [[Incredible Hulk|Hulk]] or [[Fantastic Four (Comic Book)|Dr. Doom]] without having a serious upgrade in strength? (Dan, of course, doesn't have a chance even with the upgrade, but he's a [[Joke Character]] anyway.) The concept was (lovingly) mocked in a segment on [[X-Play]] where Blair Butler took a look back at the ''[[Marvel vs. Capcom]]'' series, noting in each game the number of fighters, adding that "none of them would stand a chance against [[The Hulk]]"; while not completely true, it gets the point across.
** It's even worse in the earlier games in the series, where freakin' ''Apocalypse'' and ''Onslaught'' were the final bosses, and yet the likes of Chun Li and Ryu were able to take them down.
** Of course, ''[[Marvel vs. Capcom 3]]'' ups the ante further with the Final Boss being ''[[Galactus]]''.
*** It's on both sides. Characters like Akuma can smash mountains and islands with little effort. Morrigan can compete with the likes of Jedah and Pyron who are Galactus planet busters. The Capcom side is more powerful than people think, but since many gamers aren't as familiar with their portrayals they think most are just street level. Even Ryu is superhuman and would at least match Wolverine, if not give him a trashing.
*** Discussed in [http://www.gamesradar.com/video/v-85137209670371698 this hilariously uber-nerdy Gamesradar video] about how ridiculously Capcom overcompensated the power levels of their characters to match the Marvel characters on their character profile pages. "More powerful than people think" my red wagon, if we go by [http://marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU:Power_Grids the official standards set down for reading the power charts] and these levels are to be believed, Tron Bonne is an omniscient world-consuming [[Eldritch Abomination]] who crushes worlds with a flick of her pinky.
**** It seems that the dev team of the original ''Marvel vs. Capcom 3'' didn't know how the ratings for the Marvel Power Grid should be issued for the Capcom characters, so they've been changed to be more believable in ''Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3''. For one example, Tron was originally issued a 7 in Intelligence. According to the rating system, a 7 in Intelligence means she's "Omniscient"... as in, like a all-knowing god. Capcom must have assumed it meant "really smart". Most likely, after reading about the ratings, Tron was issued a 6 in Intelligence (meaning "Super-Genius"), which makes more sense.
**** Considering that many of Capcom's characters seem MUCH stronger, this can double as [[Fridge Brilliance]]. For example: Ryu can fire a much bigger Shinku Hadoken in comparison to his SF incarnation. [http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Shinku_Hadoken See this comparison].
***** [[Up to Eleven|It was only done to match with the over-the-top and frantic gameplay]] that has been present since ''[[X Men Children of the Atom|X-Men: Children of the Atom]]''. It mainly applies for the Street Fighter characters.
*** Then, there's the inclusion of [[Dimension Lord|Dormammu]], [[Eldritch Abomination|Shuma-Gorath]], and the like as playable characters. In their own continuities, they could just blink once and delete all of their opponents from existence. Which makes it kinda of funny when you see humans with no superpowers like Chris Redfield or Hawkeye [[Did You Just Punch Out Cthulhu?|beat the snot out of an ultra-powerful, reality-warping god]].
*** [[Ace Attorney|Phoenix Wright]] is now in the games. His ultimate attack? [[What Do You Mean It's Not Awesome?|"The real culprit...IS YOU!"]] In other words, he can defeat a world-destroying horror ''by providing evidence of guilt and giving it the pointer finger!''
** The presence of Gold Lightan and the PTX-40A Vital Suit from ''[[Lost Planet]]'' in ''[[TatsunokovsTatsunoko vs. Capcom]]'' (both of whom are utterly massive) asked for a massive power creep to [[Street Fighter|Alex]] (who is a grappler) as performing the Hyper Bomb on them can be translated as ''grabbing a giant robot's leg and effortlessly slamming him into the ground, including with an airborne drop''. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3J-kN2JIYM It has to be seen to be believed].
*** It has to be expected. The [[Final Boss]] is {{spoiler|Yami, the God of Darkness}}, the [[Big Bad]] [[Final Boss]] of ''[[Okami]]''.
*** Also done to especially, especially, especially [[Dead Rising|Frank West]]. Whereas Alex did get the power creep, he could do that stuff against everybody, from his series or not. Frank, on the other hand, disregarding a few ''Street Fighter'' moves and [[Mega Man X|a working Mega Buster]], really is [[Muggle|just a regular human]]. In ''Tatsunoko vs. Capcom'', however, he can throw said giants to the other side of the screen, shoot them in to the sky by way of hitting them with a [[Batter Up|baseball]], and can survive the stronger hits of the game, most of which, in [[Real Life]], would kill us normies. And in ''Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3'', his arsenal of [[Improvised Weapon|improvised weaponry]] (no Mega Buster and shooting people into the sky here) is more than a match for the superpowered beings of the Marvel Universe, and he can still tank hits.
Line 125 ⟶ 123:
* The ''[[Alien vs. Predator]]'' games are prime examples of this trope, as with every other kind of media. Depending on the game and genre, the abilities of the Aliens and Predators can be vastly different.
** In every game, Predators are more resilient than Aliens, despite the fact that Predators have been killed by falling logs and humans in melee combat, while Aliens have survived plasma thruster engines, the vacuum of space and tons of molten lead.
** In the 1999 and 2010 games by Rebellion, Aliens have an easy time hiding in the shadows, but the 2001 Monolith game removes this ability from them. In addition, it severely neuters the effectiveness of their acid blood, reduces their health and simplifies their behaviour.
** In the 1999 and 2010 games by Rebellion, the Predator's plasma caster is a lock-on, straight-shooting weapon that has variable degrees of power depending on charge. Monolith's 2001 game added the ability for those plasma blasts to turn in mid air.
** In the 2001 Monolith game, Aliens dominated in melee combat. In the 1999 Rebellion game, melee combat in multiplayer was almost impossible due to the game speed (except for jousting) and Predators hold a melee advantage in the 2010 game.
** For the sake of balance, player-controlled humans in the 2010 game can fight off both Aliens ''and'' Predators in hand-to-hand combat long enough to set them up for a volley of pulse rifle fire.
*** Another human example: the flamethrower. In the 2001 game, it was incredibly effective against Aliens. In the 1999 and 2010 games, it makes them explode - ''eventually''. Until then, the Alien will continue trying to kill you - ''[[Infernal Retaliation|while on fire.]]''
Line 140 ⟶ 138:
** A good example comes from [[Super Robot Wars Judgment]] in term of the casts. On one end, you got things like [[Gundam Seed]], [[Blue Comet SPT Layzner]], [[Brain Powered]], and [[Martian Sucessor Nadesico]]. On the other side, you got things like [[Mazinkaiser]], [[Zeorymer]], and [[Tekkaman Blade]](yes, this guy again). The latter part of the cast makes the infamous scene from [[Gundam Seed]] {{spoiler|where Mwu is killed}} pretty awkward because they can simply tank the attack and really likely to survive. And even in the midst of battle, both Zeorymer and Blade has more than enough speed to arrive on time.
** ''[[Another Century's Episode]] 3'' takes a nerf bat to the Shin Getter Robo, again out of pure necessity. However, it's still pretty well in line with how ''SRW'' depicts Super Robots compared to Reals (namely, [[Mighty Glacier|big and slow, but heavily armored and super-strong]]). On the other hand, they left the [[Overman King Gainer]] units alone.
** Many Banpresto's [[Crossover]] games also qualifies: The ''[[Queen's Blade|Spiral Chaos games]]'' gives [[Tekken|Lily]], who is the only character who fights ''barehanded'', moves that seems taken off more from ''[[Fist of the North Star]]'' than ''Tekken''. Justified, since it's the only explanation how she's able to fight against many of the [[Queen's Blade]]'s cast, who uses swords or medieval weapons, or against superpowered beings like [[Guilty Gear|Dizzy]] or people who use guns like [[Blaz BlueBlazBlue|Noel Vermillion]].
*** And even in the case of both Dizzy and Noel, it could be [[Hand Wave|handwaved]] that they are trying to avoid using their full power (Dizzy) or in Noel's case, {{spoiler|she's using her humanoid form and not her Mu-12 persona.}}
* Many of the Disney characters suddenly developed [[Implausible Fencing Powers]], magic, or [[I Know Karate|Kung Fu]] of some sort to put them on equal combat ground with the main characters of ''[[Kingdom Hearts]]''. It's slightly jarring (and very awesome) to see Mickey Mouse with a Yoda-like fighting ability while retaining the personality he's had for the the past 50 or 60 years.
** Mind, Mickey's always been a badass, most of the shorts he's in where he's depicted this way are just usually shafted with american airings.
* ''[[Super Smash Bros.]].'' is an example of most characters in the crossover having their power being taken up several notches. Except for Mewtwo, who is substantially weakened. This is justified in that the characters are supposed to be trophies and not the ''actual'' characters.
** One of the examples of this is Rayquaza, one of the [[Olympus Mons|most powerful]] [[Pokémon]] in the series, being beaten by [[Donkey Kong Country|a monkey with a pop-gun]].
** [[Fire Emblem Tellius|Ike]] too. His ''Path of Radiance'' incarnation can literally kill a small army on his own out of pure unrealistic combat skill. In ''Brawl'', an anorexic plumber with a Tennis racket is too much for him (and everyone else).
Line 152 ⟶ 150:
** The Ice Climbers. Everyone else exists in worlds where they could get the abilities or weapons they didn't originally have. Ice Climbers got cool freezing powers just because they were in a crossover.
** Solid Snake can't even jump in ''[[Metal Gear]]'''s gameplay, but in ''Brawl'', he can easily jump three times his height and fly with the assistance of a summoned Cypher (his enemies in his games), not to mention perform elegant suplexes, bend his spine almost all the way back... At least they have his normal jump cover a tiny distance, to show him being "realistic".
** And there's also [[EarthboundEarthBound|Ness and Lucas]]; they don't even have their own movesets in ''Brawl''.
** Everyone's held to the same swimming/drowning mechanics - even characters who can't swim, or conversely can't drown, such as [[Sonic the Hedgehog|Sonic]] and [[Pokémon|Charizard]] for the former, and ''[[Pokémon|Squirtle]] for the latter.'' At least it takes more for Squirtle to drown than for Charizard, but come on!
** Samus is significantly weakened - she moves very slowly in the air (supposedly this was intentional, albeit via the logic of "her adventures take place in outer space, therefore she gets "floaty" controls because in space there is no gravity!"), and can only fire one blaster shot at a time. At least she does get a melee attack, something sorely lacking from her regular adventures.
Line 161 ⟶ 159:
*** It should be pointed out that when this is against an average Servant with an average noble phantasm. For example, [[Word of God]] also stated that Servant Caster could obliterate Aoko. Apparently, ancient witch from the era of gods > sorcery.
*** Said power boost is explained in ''[[Melty Blood]]'' itself; for some reason the presence of the Tatari/White Len projections is inducing powerups in the lesser characters such as the maids and Miyako. ''Why'' [[Voodoo Shark|isn't exactly clear.]] In fact, in the [[Manga]], Shiki uses his full killing intent on the maids by accident. His first shock is that his instincts triggered him to do so; his second was that they were fine after.
* Any ''[[Dragon Ball]]'' video game that features Yajirobe as a non-[[Joke Character]] takes this trope to hilarious excess. He could neither fly nor use [[Ki Attacks]] in the show, but in at least one game this is compensated by throwing rocks [[Hyperspace Arsenal|from nowhere]] and flying by ''waving his legs around like he's paddling through water''. He also gets [[Sword Beam|Sword Beams]]s in some games.
** Other non-flight and/or non-ki attack characters in ''[[Dragonball Z]]: Budokai Tenkaichi'' do this as well, depends of the game. In the first one, everyone flies. in the second one, people who can't fly don't and instead fall down like rocks. In the third game they instead fall down slowly (Which is actually closer to in-series behavior), air jump (This isn't) and you can give them a Potara that allows flying.
** And in a few where Mister Satan/Hercule makes an appearance, he has a jetpack and explosives.
* ''[[Little Big PlanetLittleBigPlanet]]'' got ''[[Metal Gear]] Solid'' themed expansion pack, where Liquid Ocelot's plan is to {{spoiler|flood LBP with pointless trophy levels so that he can be loved}}, and the Metal Gear itself is essentially beaten by a Sackboy with a paintball gun.
* [[Danny Phantom]] always gets the short end of the stick in in the ''[[Nicktoons Unite!]]'' series. ''Nicktoons Unite'' gets around this with a game-long [[Plot Tailored to the Party]] (and even then he had to gain his abilities back), but then came ''Battle for Volcano Island'', where he's stuck to throwing punches and shooting energy blasts. This got even worse in ''Attack of the Toybots'' which, outside of his Master Model areas, limits him to punching and using a goo gun (but so does everyone else) to the point that freaking ''[[Rocko's Modern Life|Rocko]]'' can do as much damage as him. (Though at least that game justifies his weakness: [[Jimmy Neutron|Calamitous]] somehow managed to neutralise his ghost powers while leeching energy off the Ghost Zone to power his game-long [[Eternal Engine]].) And then in ''Globs of Doom'', he can generate temporary duplicates of himself... via gadgetry from the [[Hub Level]], which is in the universe of Volcano Island. (Meanwhile, [[Invader Zim|Dib]] developed implausible punching skills.)
* ''Dengeki Gakuen RPG: Cross of Venus'', being a crossover [[Action RPG]], delivers a nerf bat to everyone and everything from ''[[Shakugan no Shana]]'', ''[[ToA AruCertain Majutsu noMagical Index]]'' and ''[[Asura Cryin]]''' as well as to that good ol' psycho angel [[Bludgeoning Angel Dokuro-chan|Dokuro-chan]], and a buffing to just about everything pertaining to ''[[Toradora!]]'' (Yes, even Inko, who is a mook) and ''[[Kino's Journey]]''. And most of the bosses are [[Evil Knockoff|Evil Knockoffs]]s of various characters, explaining their weakness (or in a few cases, strength) compared to the people they replicate.
** At the same time though, it also averts power creeping with three plot characters: Index, [[Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu|Haruka]] and [[Asura Cryin|Misao]] aren't fighters in their canon and so they are not playable characters despite being in your party; instead, they are support characters who hold the cards usable in battle. They don't even have any in-battle sprites. (And hey, it fits Index's canon role.)
* ''[[The Force Unleashed]]'' done due to the affected person being an [[Early-Bird Cameo]] [[Guest Fighter]]: Just from playing ''[[Soul Series|Soulcalibur IV]]'' back at its time of release, few would have guessed that Galen Marek is a [[Person of Mass Destruction]] in his own universe.
** Another ''[[Soul Series|Soul Calibur]]'' example, [[God of War|Kratos]] is in the PSP version. Naturally he's pretending he can't kill them all <s>with one punch</s> by repeatedly punching them in the face as he did with Hercules and {{spoiler|Zeus}} in ''God of War III''.
* This does not exist in ''[[Mobile Suit Gundam Climax UC|Gundam Climax UC]]''. If you try to take on Char's Counter Attack stage with a GM, expect the enemy grunts to take several shots before dying. And expect them to take off half your health bar with every shot.
* It does, however, exist in just about every other ''[[Gundam]]'' crossover game. Especially noticeable in those that contain the [[Turn aA Gundam (Anime)|Turn A and Turn X]], both of which, canonically speaking, should be able to turn any other mobile suit into dust (literally). Expect to see them beaten by such things as the RX-78-2 or Char's Zaku II.
* Although the storylines try to keep everything making sense (Yukari was just messing around, Sanae wasn't taking Cirno seriously, etc.), this is a continuous problem in the ''[[Touhou]]'' fighting [[Gaiden Game|Gaiden Games]]s, with all of the playable characters (twenty, as of ''Hisoutensoku'') relatively equal in gameplay despite their ''gargantuan'' power differences. The best example of Power Creep is Cirno, a little ice fairy that, while suggested to be fairly powerful for the setting, has to seriously struggle to hold her own against one of the protagonists is a fair fight. And the cast is taken almost entirely from characters on the protagonist's level or higher. On the other end of the scale is Yukari, the boss of the series' only Phantasm stage and generally considered to be the single most powerful character. Nothing stops you from beating up Yukari with Cirno aside from needing to link ''Hisoutensoku'' and ''Hisouten''.
** Then again, justified by the existence of the spellcard system, which forbids them from using their true powers and instead forces them to rely on lesser abilities, balanced against each other. There's still a difference, but with good enough tactics it is possible for weaker characters to win (as evidenced in Imperishable Night, since protagonists are equivalent to level 4 bosses, and they do take down level 6 bosses regularly).
** Cirno's case is [[Fridge Brilliance]] on its own. She controls coldness and we first met her at the Misty Lake as a stage 2 boss and later in a winter land as a stage 1 midboss even. The misty lake is cold, winter wonderland is even colder. Later we fight her in places like a forest, a sunny mountain and a NUCLEAR FUSION REACTOR, all places much warmer. Her [[Power Level]] is directly proportional to the warmth around her and besides that she also had some years time to train her abilities.
* While one could see ''[[Cardcaptor Sakura]]'' protagonist matching the other mages in ''[[Magical Battle Arena]]'' power-wise, it's a little harder to imagine her being able to take hits as well [[Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha|as renowned members of a multi-dimension spanning police force]] or [[Slayers|veteran adventurers of a fantasy world]] considering how she kinda has the durablity of an ordinary elementary school student.
** She is the most powerful mage of her world, though... ''after'' Clow Reed cuts his magic in half through reincarnation tricks. And given recent developments in ''{{spoiler|[[Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle]]}}'', that's saying a ''hell'' of a lot.
** And taking in consideration the untapped potential of the spells that she carries with her. Sure, she can't match the raw power of a "befriending" blast or cast the rage of demons. But can, for example: {{spoiler|[[Elemental Powers|Master the elements]], [[Barrier Warrior|create nigh-impenetrable barriers]] [[Power Nullifier|also capable of]] [[Anti-Magic|dispelling functional magic and seals]], [[Dreaming of Things to Come|dreamseeing]], [[Super Speed|cast superspeed]], [[Super Strength|strength]], [[I Know Karate|fighting skills]], [[Absurdly Sharp Blade|a sword that can cut almost everything]], [[Reality Warper|alter reality]] and wipe things out of existence ....and that's just the tip of the iceberg}} she doesn't attack on the same pattern as the other Magical girls but has an unmatched versatility and a good level of control (just remember, {{spoiler|she stops a snowstorm and safely defrosts a small city within a matter of seconds, minutes perhaps}}).
* In ''[[Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions]]'', Amazing Spider-Man takes out [[The Juggernaut]] in a fistfight. It's [[Handwaved]] by suggesting that {{spoiler|the power of the [[MacGuffin|Tablet Fragment]] is messing with Juggy's Gem of Cyttorak-given power.}}
* Various characters in the ''[[Mario and& Sonic Atat Thethe Olympic Games]]'' series. For example, in his main series, [[Sonic the Hedgehog]] is referred to as "the world's fastest supersonic hedgehog", capable of running above the speed of sound without breaking a sweat. In the Olympic Games series, though he is still one of the fastest characters in terms of top speed, his other attributes are reduced to better balance him with the other characters.
* The ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'' spin-offs have this a lot. In the main series, Yoshi can only run faster than Luigi when someone is riding him. If not, he's just as fast as Mario, which is still [[Super Speed]], but not as fast as Luigi. Mario, in the main series, is perfectly capable of lifting a castle and throwing it to the side, but is the [[Jack of All Stats]] in the spin-offs.
* ''[[Defense of the Ancients]]'' does this with a lot of the crossover heroes. One of the most notable examples, [[Slayers|Lina Inverse]], can ''unmake creation'' with her Laguna Blade, which only does 1250 damage in-game. (Which, to be fair, is ''a lot of damage''.)
* In ''[[Asura's Wrath]]'', one DLC has Asura facing off against ''[[Street Fighter]]'''s very own Ryu and Akuma {{spoiler|and their respective [[Super-Powered Evil Side]] Evil Ryu and Oni}}. It's a pretty cool idea, except for the fact that, in his own game, Asura is so overwhemlingly powerful that's he's up there with [[Capcom]] characters like those of the ''[[Darkstalkers]]'' series or the ''[[Okami]]'' series as one of the strongest characters made with Capcom's name attached to it.
** In said DLC Ryu survives being punched all the way to the moon from Earth, Evil Ryu moves a mountain sized landmass {{spoiler|and the battle with Akuma/Oni destroys the moon!}}
* ''[[Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha AsA's Portable]]: The Gears of Destiny'' threw in various justifications to explain why characters from different currently running installments of the franchise have roughly the same power levels when they shouldn't. Specifically, the [[Time Travel]] caused a malfunction on [[Nanoha Force|Thoma's]] Tome of the Silver Cross to explain why he can't just [[Anti-Magic]] his way through the unprepared cast, [[Nanoha Vivid|Vivio and Einhart]] are being greatly assisted by their [[Amplifier Artifact|Devices]] to explain why they could fly here when they couldn't in their series, and [[Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha AsA's|Reinforce Eins]] is [[Your Days Are Numbered|slowly dying]] by this point to explain the [[Nerf|nerfingnerf]]ing she got in the game.
* In the third ''[[Warriors Orochi]]'' game, Ryu Hayabusa of ''[[Ninja Gaiden]]'' joins the cast in their quest to defeat the Hydra. He accompanies them as they travel through different moments in time when the Hydra strike desperately trying to discover a way to beat the seemingly unstoppable monster. Thing is though Ryu in his own game series has fought and beaten numerous giant abominations all by himself and the Hydra really shouldn't have been that big a deal for him to handle by his lonesome.
 
Line 201 ⟶ 199:
** Throughout the DCAU, this is [[Handwaved]] by some heroes: specifically [[The Flash]] and Superman. Flash ''intentionally'' seeps speed in races, as in the comics, because "those were for charity". Superman meanwhile takes hits "so the others don't have to." Basically, ''they aren't trying'', even though failure might mean somebody '''dies'''. The other heroes, *cough* [[Martian Manhunter]] *cough*, have no such excuse.
*** The [[Lampshade Hanging]] by Superman himself in the final ep of JLU (his [[World of Cardboard Speech]] and afterwards) [[Crowning Moment of Awesome|more than makes up for it, though.]]
* With some of the various "vs" cartoons-- mostcartoons—most notably with the "David v. Goliath" type matches-- tomatches—to prevent outright ''mis-''matches.
* In ''[[Darkwing Duck]]'', The Liquidator had ''extensive'' control over water - he could spontaneously generate it, change its temperature, and turn it into "hard water" (a yellow glue-like substance), and his body was entirely fluid. After his one solo appearance, his water temperature changing and hard water abilities vanished and his other abilities were scaled back.
** In all honesty, they had to. Liquidator's very nature makes him [[Nigh Invulnerable]], barring having his oxygen and hydrogen atoms being separated. And after someone that strong has been defeated once, you'll never see him as the super-being he was before.
*** The lowered powers also dodge a very pesky piece of [[Fridge Logic]], namely that Liquidator could have just boiled Darkwing alive by heating the 70% water content of his body otherwise. Then you wouldn't have much of a show, at least not one Disney would have ever allowed for an afternoon kids' cartoon.
* In a crossover between the '90s ''[[Spider-Man]]'' cartoon and ''[[X-Men]]'' cartoon, this is highlighted in a scene where Spidey winds up fighting Danger Room Sentinels.
{{quote| '''Storm:''' Power of Lightning, strike again!<br />
'''Spider-Man:''' Power of Webshooters, gets real sticky? }}
 
Line 212 ⟶ 210:
[[Category:Crossover Index]]
[[Category:Superhero Tropes]]
[[Category:Mega Crossover/Fanfic Recs]]
[[Category:Crossover/Sandbox]]
[[Category:Power Creep, Power Seep]]
[[Category:Power]]