Pronoun Trouble: Difference between revisions

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{{trope}}
{{quote|'''Daffy:''' ''(justShortly after beingDaffy has been shot) "...Let's run through that again.")''
'''Daffy:''' ''"...Let's run through that again."''
'''Bugs:''' ''"Okay. 'Would you like to shoot me now, or wait till you get home?'"''
'''Daffy''' ''(calmly) "Shoot him now, shoot him now."''
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'''Daffy:''' ''Ha! That's it! Hold it right there! ([[Aside Glance]]) [[Trope Namer|Pronoun trouble.]]
([[Beat]])
'''Daffy:''' ''"[[Ambiguous Syntax|It's not 'He doesn't have to shoot ''you'' now,' it's 'He doesn't have to shoot ''me'' now.']] WELL, I SAY HE ''DOES'' HAVE TO SHOOT ME NOW!! [[Too Dumb Toto Live|(runs to Elmer)]] SO SHOOT ME NOW!!!"''|[[Looney Tunes|Daffy Duck]] before promptly being shot, ''"[[Rabbit Seasoning]]"''}}
|[[Looney Tunes|Daffy Duck]], before promptly being shot, ''"[[Rabbit Seasoning]]"''}}
 
[[Gender Neutral Writing|Gender neutral pronouns]] and substitution of names for pronouns allows speakers in anime to play a kind of pronoun game. The purpose of the game is usually to obscure someone's the gender or identity to the audience (or other characters) in a natural manner. It can be used as a way to talk about the [[Wholesome Crossdresser]] before revealing their gender without anyone technically lying about it. Occasionally, it's also a way to refer to a machine or other creature as if they were a person.
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This can be difficult to translate into other languages. Some languages will combine '''Pronoun Trouble''' with Adjective Trouble: for example, in Spanish, adjectives can shift form depending on the gender of who/what is being described, making it much harder to keep the gender ambiguous. And since compound verb forms are frequently created from participles, and participles are actually adjectives, it can lead to Verb Trouble.
 
A similar effect is seen whenever a piece of fiction includes a character who identifies with a non-binary gender -- [["It" Is Dehumanizing|referring to them as "it" sounds quite cold.]] However, moreMore original gender-neutral pronouns, like "s/he" or "zir,", tend to be quiteused, but are often criticized as clumsy and jarring.; Thethe old standby of singular "they" [[Internet Backdraft|remains similarly controversial]], despite the usage existing [[wikipedia:Singular they|since around the 14th century.]]
 
A common trick in languages without a neutral pronoun is to refer to "that person", but that has its own pitfalls in that the unnatural phrasing serves to draw attention to what should, in many cases, go unremarked. Some languages, such as Finnish, have the opposite trouble - there are no gender-specific pronouns at all, just neutral ones. When translating English works into these languages, it's ''too easy'' to ignore someone's gender, so when it becomes a plot point that really has to be revealed, the translator is forced to use the less natural "that woman" or "that man" equivalents.
 
Compare [[The All-Concealing "I"]], which can serve a similar narrative function in English-language works. See [[Gender Vocabulary Slip]] for when crossdresserscross-dressers have '''Pronoun Trouble'''. See also [[Which Me?]], for when people have trouble using the right pronouns to distinguish ''themselves'' from duplicates.
 
Not to be confused with [[Who's on First?]], where proper names are the source of confusion, or [[Ambiguous Syntax]], where the meaning is unclear rather than gender (and also what the trope-naming quote above qualifies as).
{{examples}}
 
{{examples}}
== [[Anime]] and [[Manga]] ==
* The Viz dub of ''[[Ranma ½]]'' had to jump through verbal hoops to hide the true gender of Kurenai Tsubasa before that character's initial appearance in the third season.
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** This also applies a good portion of the cast of ''[[Wish]]'', in which CLAMP followed the "angels are genderless" tradition, and the persocom Dita in ''[[Chobits]]''. Ruby Moon from [[Cardcaptor Sakura]] was sexless but saw herself as female, so she doesn't cause the pronoun problems the rest of them do.
** [[Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle|Mokona]] is [[Magic Knight Rayearth|Mokona]].
*** This comes up ''[[Running Gag|again]]'' in the quartet's newest{{when}}2011 series, ''[[Gate 7]]'', which features a character named [[Gender Blender Name|Hana]] whose gender is intentionally ambiguous. Thankfully, the English translation handles this ambiguity remarkably well.
* ''[[Kino's Journey]]'' features a protagonist who looks masculine but sounds feminine, and who uses both the masculine and feminine forms of "I". {{spoiler|Turns out Kino's a girl.}}
** The English dub makes it even harder to tell that {{spoiler|she's a girl}}, by the voice actor purposely obscuring this since the englishEnglish version wouldn't have as much pronoun trouble.
* Katsura Hoshino, author of ''[[D.Gray-man]]'', uses pronouns that make pinning down the author's gender impossible. We finally found out {{spoiler|when ''she'' finally made her}} first major public appearance.
* As mentioned below, Chinese does not distinguish between male and female in the third person. This leads to ''two'' people being [[Mistaken for Gay]] in the manwha (Chinese comic) ''[[Half Prince]]''; one guy is in love with a female character's male online persona, whilst the other is in love with her real self. She [https://web.archive.org/web/20100722013438/http://www.onemanga.com/12_Prince/16/23/ overhears] and eventually concludes that they were [https://web.archive.org/web/20100401155839/http://www.onemanga.com/12_Prince/17/02/ fighting over a man] and, later, [https://web.archive.org/web/20100125135355/http://www.onemanga.com/12_Prince/17/05/ talking about her twin brother]. The [https://web.archive.org/web/20100124055657/http://www.onemanga.com/12_Prince/17/06/ subsequent] [[Ho Yay]] [https://web.archive.org/web/20100722013444/http://www.onemanga.com/12_Prince/17/07/ writes] [https://web.archive.org/web/20100124055704/http://www.onemanga.com/12_Prince/17/08/ itself].
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** Although in the dub Medusa, being Crona's mother and pretty much the only other one who would be sure of Crona's gender, [[Guinea Pig Family|calls Crona "it"]].
* A common occurrence in ''[[Detective Conan]]'', where Conan claims that he knows the killer is "that person" when there are suspects of both sexes, preventing the audience from getting any information.
* Probably unintentional in ''[[Katekyo Hitman Reborn]]'' with regards to several characters as a side-effect of the otherwise well-received [[Art Evolution]]. [[In the Hood|Viper]], [[Bishonen|Kikyou]] and [[Dude Looks Like a Lady|Daisy]] were all referred to with gender neutral pronouns, yet their designs are [[Viewer Gender Confusion|confusing, to say the least]]. This has led to translations using "he" then "she" for the same characters depending on who's translating.
* Because of his gender neutral style of speaking, Lopmon in ''[[Digimon Tamers]]'' could have gone any which way. By the time Shiuchon was trying to teach him male pronouns, it was a case of [[She's a Man In Japan]] in the dub.
* ''[[Nabari no Ou]]'' will likely run into this in the translated manga, with {{spoiler|Sora's confusion over whether to use [[Japanese Pronouns|ore or watashi.]]}}
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** Crystal has also been referred to as male... after it's clear that she's the one they're all talking about, and pretty much ''female.''
* Keiichi fell foul of this in ''[[Ah! My Goddess]]'' when put under a temporary [[Gender Bender]] by Skuld's pudding. When his sister and his fellow members of the Auto Club came looking for him, he tried to pretend that he was someone else, in a bid to [[Extra-Strength Masquerade|hide the presence of goddesses in his home]]. Just as he was about to leave, however, he [[Gender Vocabulary Slip|accidentally used the masculine 'ore' when referring to himself]], rousing some suspicion in his guests.
* ''[[Death Note]]''<nowiki>{{'</nowiki>}}s translation always referred to an unknown Kira as "them", that was fitting, because often those who discussed it, didn't even know if it's really a single person or a group.
* Belbel in ''[[There Beyond the Beyond]]'' was the victim of this and [[Viewer Gender Confusion]] in the Tokyopop translation; the first volumes used the name "Lady Belbel", but when they changed translators, Belbel suddenly became a "he".
* ''[[Heartcatch Pretty Cure]]'' didn't formally reveal [[Bifauxnen|Myoudouin]] [[Student Council President|Itsuki]]'s female gender to Tsubomi—and the audience—until Episode Seven. This was a lot easier to get around in the original Japanese than in the subs, where not only Tsubomi, but Erika and the student council, the latter of which know better, refer to Itsuki with exclusively male terms until the aforementioned reveal.
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* A minor example for most English speakers, but an obvious one for folks who speak Japanese, is the way in which Hazumu refers to h(er/im)self in ''[[Kashimashi: Girl Meets Girl]]'' - most notably the use of the 'boku' (male reflexive) pronoun, also referenced in a similarly [[Gender Bender|gender-bending]] series, ''[[Otome wa Boku ni Koishiteru]]''.
* A meta example occurs with ''[[Wandering Son]]'' as there's been discussion on the wiki about whether to refer to the transgender characters by their biological sex (Shuuichi is "he" & Yoshino is "she") or by their desired/mental genders (Shuuichi is "she" & Yoshino is "he"). The general consensus is to simply match what's used in-story (Shuuichi "he" / Yoshino "she"). Yuki is more straightforward, as she lives as a woman, is implied to have had surgery, and everyone in-story refers to her as "she" even after knowing her original gender.
* Kurapika in ''[[Hunter X Hunter]]'' presents translators with plenty of trouble. Again, in Japanese with no gendered pronouns, it's just not mentioned. Ambiguous tribal clothing, a female voice actor, and a tendency to wear female disguises don't help matters. At this point the English-speaking fandom has pretty much settled on Kurapika being male, since all the dubbers went with that pronoun, but the initial promotions released about the manga specifically stated, "Kurapika's gender has not been revealed." Meanwhile, the Japanese half of the fandom seems to have a pretty even split, so fan art featuring female Kurapika is as common as male.
 
== [[Film]] ==
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* In ''[[Ender In Exile]]'', Graff does a pretty good job of tiptoeing around pronouns when talking about Demosthenes, but naturally, Ender sees through it anyway.
* In the Spanish translation of ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]'', the problem is in number, not gender, when a character says "May the Valar protect you." Since the Valar are not mentioned anywhere else, the translator uses "El valar" ("el" is masculine singular for "the"), probably assuming that the Valar is a sort of [[Crystal Dragon Jesus]]. It is clear from other works, though, that the proper form would be the plural "Los Valar."
* The ''Children of Triad'' trilogy by Laurie J. Marks features the Aeyries, a race of hermaphrodites that are effectively neuter until maturity. A lot of this trope results when the Aeyries inevitably have to deal with the human-like Walkers, who, like every other species on their planet, have two genders. Because [["It" Is Dehumanizing]], many [[Fantastic Racism|Walkers, who are incredibly prejudiced against the Aeyries]], call them such, but the correct pronouns are 'id' and 'idre' in the Aeyrie language. As a more direct example, the eponymous main character of the first book, ''Delan the Mislaid'', grows up in a Walker village; because id has no male 'characteristics,' the people of id's village decide id is a very, very ugly 'she' and move on from there.
 
== [[Live -Action TV]] ==
* Pronoun Trouble drives the "humor" in the ''[[Saturday Night Live]]'' skit "It's Pat!" Watching any version of this skit at all makes clear exactly how troubling Pronoun Trouble can get.
** Your contributor suspects that the film version of these skits (yes, they had one) had a scene in a Japanese restaurant where the chef Pat is working for and his customers discuss Pat's gender in Japanese, specifically because of the language's gender neutrality... though to be fair, they also throw in [[The Un-Reveal|a guy vacuuming]].
* On ''[[Malcolm in the Middle]],'' infant Jamie went several episodes just after being born without having a specified gender. (In the end, it was another boy.) This was also parodied with a skit where the parents are skirting around his gender for about 2 minutes before casually revealing it by calling him "mister".
* The J'naii in the ''[[Star Trek: The Next Generation]]'' episode "The Outcast" are an androgynous species for whom gender is "primitive". Their pronoun for themselves was supposedly difficult to translate; it comes through to us as "one".
* Pops up both in-universe and on [[ThisTV Very WikiTropes]] with ''[[The Sarah Connor Chronicles]]'', in regards as to whether [[Robot Girl|Cameron]] and other Terminators should be referred to as "he/she" or "it".
* ''[[How I Met Your Mother|Marshall]]'': Marshall got himself into this because he didn't want to reveal to Lily than Marshalls co-worker Jenkins is a woman, and not a man, as Lily assumed. As he puts it himself, he just had to avoid pronouns (cue flashback in which Marshall tells Lily about how a superior chose people for a job: "him, him, her, him, him... Jenkins.")
* Some literal Pronoun Trouble happens in-character on ''[[ER]]'' when Dr. Green's brain tumor began to inhibit his use of "he" and "she". Lambasting the friend of a gunshot victim, his "He blew his brains out!" became "She blew his brains out!", thoroughly confusing the guy he's yelling at.
* In an episode of ''[[Frasier]]'', the titular character learns that [[The Ghost|Maris]] has been having an affair and goes to confront her. He asks Niles' Hispanic maid for "Mrs. Crane" and she leads him to a sauna. After a lot of buildup, he opens the door and we see...[[The Un-Reveal|Niles]].
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'''Greta''': Yes! Missy Crane!
'''Niles''': Greta has trouble with her pronouns.}}
 
== [[Toys]] ==
* A presumably accidental invocation of this trope (a bio with no gendered pronouns used) led to a Transformer from the ''[[Beast Wars]]'' toyline (a bat named Sonar) to be considered female by the fanbase. (Eventually, this was apparently made canon).
 
== [[Video Games]] ==
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* An ''[[The Idolmaster (video game)|Idolmaster]]'' MAD averts this with Ryo Akizuki, using "me" and "the other ([[Idol Singer]]) me".
* The intro to ''[[My Sims]] Agents'' has Buddy talking about how his comics are really about his best friend... but has to use "they" when forced to use a neutral pronoun to refer to you, because you choose your Sim's gender, and won't have done so yet. It would have been better to move at least that part of Sim creation to the beginning.
* Nintendo has trouble whether they should refer to the [[TranssexualismTransgender]] [[Super Mario Bros.|Birdo]] as male or female at times, so they've used "Birdo" as a pronoun at least once.
** Mentioned in [[Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga]], in regards to {{spoiler|Bowletta}}.
* In ''[[Call of Duty: Black Ops III]]'', John Taylor uses the singular "they" when referring to the player character in pre-mission text because the player gender can be chosen.
 
== Toys ==
* A presumably accidental invocation of this trope (a bio with no gendered pronouns used) led to a Transformer from the ''[[Beast Wars]]'' toyline (a bat named Sonar) to be considered female by the fanbase. (Eventually, this was apparently made canon).
 
== [[Web Comics]] ==
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** ''[[El Goonish Shive]]'', on the other hand, seems to stick to the appropriate pronoun for the character's internal gender.
* [http://www.nuklearpower.com/2008/08/23/episode-1028-the-beauty-of-nature/ A 2008] ''[[8-Bit Theater]]'' comic had a particularly [[squick]]worthy take on the whole "undefined gender" trope.
* ''[[Schlock Mercenary]]'' has LOTA ("Longshoreman ofOf theThe Apocalypse", later "Long-gunner Of The Apocalypse"), a robothastily frommade ''[[Schlockrobot Mercenary]]'',who avoids the issue entirely. [http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20080724.html2008-07-24 "LOTA is too large for your puny pronouns!"]. Though [//www.schlockmercenary.com/2019-12-07 there are exceptions].
 
== [[Web Original]] ==
* The Chakats of ''[[Chakona Space]]'' use "shi" and "hir" to refer to themselves and other herms.
** Whereas the [[Gender Bender|gender-shifting]] Skunktaurs use "hy" and "hys" for some reason.
* In the [[Whateley Universe]], Heyoka (the codename) is a person of Lakota Indianindigenous American origin whose first name is Jamie. Heyoka's superpower means that he/she shifts from masculine to feminine to in-between, as well as from human to part-animal. Even the other transgendertrans person at the school havehas trouble with pronouns in Jamie's case.
** Jade and the manifested J-Team have it even worse, as she cannot keep personal or impersonal pronouns straight. This is used as a [[Running Gag]].
*** The J-Team issues aren't so much male/female, though, as a situation where [[Me's a Crowd|their singularity/plurality varies over time.]] Plus, there's a Masquerade going on where she/they are pretending that she/they are "they" 24/7. Whereas, as she says, "It's all just me." Now if you want a Team Kimba member whose male/female pronouns get a beating, try Ayla. Originally male, legally female, mentally male, physically intersexedintersex (but 95% female). His pronouns change depending on whether characters are talking about his legal, mental, or physical aspects, how much they know about him, and whether they remember to switch. Even the readers can't agree!
*** Oh, and Jade is a transexualtransgender. Pre-op near the beginning, post-op later on. Not a spoiler. Interestingly, no pronoun trouble, Jade is ALWAYS 'she'. The omniscient narrator, however, uses 'he' for Ayla when written by Diane Castle.
* ''[[Orion's Arm]]'' has a surprisingly simple [http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/495360fba7a46 pronoun system] for referring to the six standard sexes in the setting plus addition pronouns to denote virtual and alien life forms of indeterminable gender.
 
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== [[Real Life]] ==
* [[Truth in Television]] example: Many a [[TranssexualismTransgender|transgender person]], especially the ones who can't pass very well.
** Especially if they aren't openly transsexualtrans, and you have to switch between pronouns for them in public and private.
** Also goes double for those who don't fit into the male/female binary, whether that's genderqueer, androgyne, neutrois, or so on. Also applies to many intersex people. Most attempts at a [[Gender Neutral Pronoun]] aren't very well accepted and often feel quite clumsy and awkward.
* Historically, there were no gender-specific pronouns in [[the various Chinese Language]]Languages. It was in twentieth century when the written forms of the female and neuter nouns were created as a bid to emulate the European languages, but all these pronouns remained homophonous (''ta''). This can cause difficulties, particularly when the gender of the person referred to is unknown to the translator or in similar situations. Or if a native speaker of Chinese is speaking English.
* Bahasa has one basic third-person singular pronoun, "dia," which can mean "he" or "she."
** I would almost dare to go as far as to say that there are more languages in the world that do ''not'' have gender-specific pronouns than there are those that do. It might seem otherwise because of how widely Indo-European languages are spoken.