Punch Clock Villain: Difference between revisions

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* Captain Ramballe of the French army that invades Russia in ''[[War and Peace]]'' is very much this. He sits down with Pierre in occupied Moscow and offers him dinner and wine, discussing how the Russians performed splendidly at the [[Battle Royale With Cheese|Battle of Borodino]], commending them for such a fine job at defending their own country.
* Captain Ramballe of the French army that invades Russia in ''[[War and Peace]]'' is very much this. He sits down with Pierre in occupied Moscow and offers him dinner and wine, discussing how the Russians performed splendidly at the [[Battle Royale With Cheese|Battle of Borodino]], commending them for such a fine job at defending their own country.
* In ''[["If This Goes On—"]]'' a science fiction novella by [[Robert A. Heinlein]], our hero is captured by the evil government. He notices that the several torturers for the government show no pleasure in their job, they are strictly business. It is implied that anyone who likes to inflict pain is not permitted in that job, as they are supposed to get information, not necessarily hurt people (although that is always an option if they think it will help).
* In ''[["If This Goes On—"]]'' a science fiction novella by [[Robert A. Heinlein]], our hero is captured by the evil government. He notices that the several torturers for the government show no pleasure in their job, they are strictly business. It is implied that anyone who likes to inflict pain is not permitted in that job, as they are supposed to get information, not necessarily hurt people (although that is always an option if they think it will help).
* One subversion is mentioned in [[Honor Harrington]]. The People's Republic of Haven mans concentration camps with real villains who like being villains and not just punch clock villains. The type of people in [[State Sec]] who get [[Political Officer|fleet duty]] or work as intelligence officers, are often the types that would be chaplains or psychologists in the former case and intelligence officers in the later case in any state's defense system rather then professionals in atrocity.
* Sergeant Zim and the other Boot Camp NCOs from the book ''[[Starship Troopers]]''. While not technically evil, their job is to make sure that the 90% who can't cope with being in the M.I. or don't want the franchise bad enough drop out as early as possible. It is stated that the suffering they induce is too impersonal to be the work of a bully, that "Basic training is made AS HARD AS POSSIBLE, and for good reasons", and that all NCOs are decent (by NCO standards) to the ones who are left, when they know they are going to hack it.
* Sergeant Zim and the other Boot Camp NCOs from the book ''[[Starship Troopers]]''. While not technically evil, their job is to make sure that the 90% who can't cope with being in the M.I. or don't want the franchise bad enough drop out as early as possible. It is stated that the suffering they induce is too impersonal to be the work of a bully, that "Basic training is made AS HARD AS POSSIBLE, and for good reasons", and that all NCOs are decent (by NCO standards) to the ones who are left, when they know they are going to hack it.
* In accordance with the [[Truth in Television]] mentioned below, the British heroes of the ''[[Aubrey-Maturin]]'' series and their French opponents often enjoy each other's company when on land or after one of them has surrendered. One reoccurring Punch-Clock Villain is Captain Christy-Palliere, who eventually becomes their ally in ''The Hundred Days'' when the French military forces split between Bonaparte and Louis XVIII.
* In accordance with the [[Truth in Television]] mentioned below, the British heroes of the ''[[Aubrey-Maturin]]'' series and their French opponents often enjoy each other's company when on land or after one of them has surrendered. One reoccurring Punch-Clock Villain is Captain Christy-Palliere, who eventually becomes their ally in ''The Hundred Days'' when the French military forces split between Bonaparte and Louis XVIII.
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* Loads of Nazi soldiers up for war crimes said they were [[Just Following Orders]]. That got them...wait for it...NOWHERE!
* Loads of Nazi soldiers up for war crimes said they were [[Just Following Orders]]. That got them...wait for it...NOWHERE!
** Considering that the Nuremburg trials dealt with fewer than 200 individual Nazis (only 150 or so of whom were actually convicted), while significantly more than 200 people had "followed orders" (some quite gruesome or inhumane) of one sort or another over the entire period of the war, it seems as if the excuse got many quite far. Doubly so when you consider that a number of German scientists and spies (some of whom were guilty of a great many war crimes) were transferred directly under the influence of multiple Allied countries (such as Wernher von Braun joining the US rocket program) without being tried at all. In a sense, most of the people for whom "following orders" was not considered an acceptable defense were those high up enough in the hierarchy that it was assumed they weren't merely following orders against their own good judgment and morality, but directly supporting and profiting from them as well. And who would be of more value as examples than as military/espionage/scientific assets in the rapidly-developing Cold War.
** Considering that the Nuremburg trials dealt with fewer than 200 individual Nazis (only 150 or so of whom were actually convicted), while significantly more than 200 people had "followed orders" (some quite gruesome or inhumane) of one sort or another over the entire period of the war, it seems as if the excuse got many quite far. Doubly so when you consider that a number of German scientists and spies (some of whom were guilty of a great many war crimes) were transferred directly under the influence of multiple Allied countries (such as Wernher von Braun joining the US rocket program) without being tried at all. In a sense, most of the people for whom "following orders" was not considered an acceptable defense were those high up enough in the hierarchy that it was assumed they weren't merely following orders against their own good judgment and morality, but directly supporting and profiting from them as well. And who would be of more value as examples than as military/espionage/scientific assets in the rapidly-developing Cold War.
***In any case once an SS guard found out his duties he always had the somewhat more honorable option of volunteering for the Russian front and picking on victims who were shooting back at him.
** World War II was actually the beginning of the concept that "following orders" was not a justification for committing crimes against humanity.
** World War II was actually the beginning of the concept that "following orders" was not a justification for committing crimes against humanity.
* The idea of ''"The Banality of Evil"'' by Hanna Arendt is a response to this, describing how people can regard the most terrible atrocities as "just a job" that they justify by the fact that they are [[Just Following Orders]].
* The idea of ''"The Banality of Evil"'' by Hanna Arendt is a response to this, describing how people can regard the most terrible atrocities as "just a job" that they justify by the fact that they are [[Just Following Orders]].
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