Automoderated users, Autopatrolled users, Bureaucrats, Comment administrators, Confirmed users, Moderators, Rollbackers, Administrators
213,897
edits
Redemption Demotion: Difference between revisions
no edit summary
m (clean up) |
No edit summary |
||
| (4 intermediate revisions by 3 users not shown) | |||
Line 31:
Sometimes, an enemy-turned-friend loses nothing of what made him a formidable opponent in the first place. This is usually because the character wasn't previously relying on any powers or methods that could be considered evil and thus which can continue to serve him as a hero.
Slightly rarer, a new ally goes through enough [[Character Development]] (or just [[Training
Compare [[Good Is Boring]] and [[Good Is Impotent]]. See also the [[Balance Between Good and Evil]]. Frequently accompanied by [[Badass Decay]]. Occasionally, a villain will get a [[Redemption Promotion]] instead.
Line 70:
* Inverted by Viral in ''[[Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann]]''. After he joins Team Dai-Gurren, he actually turns this into a Redemption Promotion.
** Lordgenome does it too, as he becomes [[Serial Escalation|even more badass]] after the time-skip. The fact that he's a head in a jar only makes it even more impressive when he later sacrifices himself to turn a Big Bang into a huge power-boost.
* {{spoiler|Accelerator}} in ''[[
* While Jelly Jiggler from ''[[Bobobo-Bo Bo-bobo]]'' was always pretty silly, he at least had ''some'' chops when he was a villain. After he turns good, though, he becomes the biggest [[Butt Monkey]] in the series.
* For the sadly brief period they were on the good guys' side, [[Soul Eater|Crona]] had his/her strength decreased and stood up to Giriko marginally longer than Maka. An indication of how strong Giriko was being that he managed to cut Crona. The black blood had previously been damaged only by Maka's super-powered evil side and Death Scythe. The demotion was explained in the anime by Maka's special soul wavelength, and in the manga by Shinigami taking the souls Ragnarok had consumed. Crona's state following their [[Face Heel Revolving Door|Face Heel Turn]] would suggest they've 'improved' dramatically, Black Star's approach notwithstanding ('stronger than', apparently, [[Defeat Means Friendship|'reasoned with']], hell no).
Line 135:
*** Reputedly [[Lampshaded]] by [[Ric Flair]], who said he didn't cheat because he needed to, but because he could.
** [[Lampshaded]] by [[Kevin Nash|Diesel]] after he got beat by [[Bret Hart]] for the World Title. Diesel claimed that he lost his edge while trying to be [[Vince McMahon]]'s latest reimagining of [[Hulk Hogan]], and that he was going back to being the [[Badass]] that effortlessly cleared rings during battle royals. He has since then became a [[Tweener]] that gradually transitioned into a full-blown [[Heel]].
** Also [[Lampshaded]] by [[
*** Subverted and played straight at the same time when [[
* Subverted by [[The Undertaker]], as regardless of his status, he's the most powerful wrestler on the card.
* When a monster heel is brought into the company, he wins nearly every match, with many of them being [[Squash Match|squash matches]]. After his face turn, he will become easier to beat and his win/loss record will show that (e.g. Yokozuna, [[Vader]], Great Khali, [[Mark Henry]], Vladmir Kozlov).
Line 143:
== Tabletop Games ==
* ''[[Magic: The Gathering]]'': [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=152643 Rhys the Exiled] is a powerful elf from Lorwyn. Following the Aurora, which converts Lorwyn into the bleak Shadowmoor, he becomes [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=147393 Rhys the Redeemed], with significantly reduced strength and durability. (Although it has to be admitted he does have some interesting, potentially very powerful abilities.)
* ''[[Dungeons
** More directly exemplified in the "Savage Species" supplement, which introduced an alternative to make monsters playable at low levels, by allowing you to gradually earn the abilities represented by a monster's level adjustment by gaining levels as a monster instead of in a character class. In short, the creature is intentionally demoted to bring them theoretically on par with normal characters, gaining portions of their full innate power instead of class levels. The aforementioned level adjustment just causes the monster to gain less than a conventional character might have, rather than actually demoting it.
Line 176:
* {{spoiler|Flynn}} of ''[[Tales of Vesperia]]'' is an odd example—although he's not evil in the slightest. In the one instance when he [[Guest Star Party Member|joins you in combat]], he has somewhere around 5000 HP and a paltry amount of Artes. Approximately ''one day later'' in the game's timeline, he and Yuri [[Duel Boss|duke it out]]—and he's suddenly gained ''six-digit HP'' and a repertoire of deadly Artes, including Holy Lance and a [[Limit Break|Mystic Arte]], Radiant Dragon Fang. He must've done a ''buttload'' of [[Level Grinding]] in that one day.
** Captain Schwann exemplifies both this trope and [[Evil Is Cool]]. As a boss, he's incredibly difficult (although most of the difficulty comes from the fact that both your healers are absent from the party), has six-digit health, and extremely powerful techniques. He's missing most of those techniques and is back down to four-digit health when {{spoiler|he rejoins the party not much later as Raven}}. Justified in that he's using his [[Dangerous Forbidden Technique]] ({{spoiler|his blastia heart}}) during the battle, ''and'' [[I Am Not Left-Handed|wielding his sword in the other hand]].
** In the [[
* ''[[Lunar 2 Eternal Blue Complete|Lunar: Eternal Blue]]'' has this with Leo... but in fact averts it in that Leo appears to be [[Level Grinding]] at the same rate as the protagonist, and when they duel one on one, Leo only has about 288 HP... around the same as he did when they teamed up. But the Playstation version undoes this by giving Leo about 750 HP for the duel... of course it was anticlimactic as one can use a technique and oneshot Leo.
* Zero from the ''[[Mega Man X]]'' games is at his most powerful when he's fighting against the player: he even has access to moves that the playable Zero is never able to use. In ''X5'', {{spoiler|if playing as Zero in the third fortress stage, you fight X, and he does the same thing, using the Ultimate Armor that is otherwise attainable only through a cheat code or as a [[Guide Dang It]].}}
Line 215:
* Partial exception: ''Destiny of an Emperor'' allows the player to recruit bosses at their full strength. However, since the main PCs gain soldiers (the game's equivalent of HP) over the course of the game and the bosses (and less important allies) don't, the bosses-turned-allies eventually become worthless. Except Zhou Yu.
* Justified by {{spoiler|Sarevok}} in ''[[Baldur's Gate]] II: Throne of Bhaal''. When he finally ''does'' join your party after having previously opposed you he has lost all of his Bhaalspawn gifts and equipment in the meantime ({{spoiler|being dead will do that to you)}}, not to mention that his experience has been static ever since and allowed you to close the level gap between you as well. He is still the best fighter NPC in the game despite this.
* Kanon in ''[[Wild
** Bullshit, the last time you fight her, it's shown to have taken a heavy toll on her artificial body. Right after that, your first taste of her as an ally is in a fight against Judecca, one of the [[Quirky Miniboss Squad]] to the [[Big Bad]], who is a tough fight even for the WHOLE TEAM when you fight him later. Kanon barely survives the fight against him. She thus pushed herself over her limits twiceover in a VERY short amount of time, and Marivel (who was busy trying to fix her before Judecca's attack) even notes the busted circuitry. Kanon noticed she had grown weaker, herself. ALL Of Kanon's abilities can be obtained with <s>proper [[Level Grinding]]</s> a [[Luck-Based Mission]].
** She's the fastest character in the team and JUST as strong as Brad, the teams tank. Brad only stay useful at that point because of his dual-ARM limit break.
Line 274:
* Subverted and then ''inverted'' in Venus Blood saga, especially in it's newest instalment, not only any character that joins you won't be any weaker than as an enemy, but if you decide to corrupt the heroines, they'll become much powerful.
** And then there is VB: Frontier, where in the evil route you can corrupt them further, and the power up will be even greater, at the cost of sacrificing their abilities. Justified since the heroines either lose their sanity, or their bodies change and they can't keep fighting like they used to.
* ''[[Monster Girl Quest Paradox]]'' allows you to recruit all enemies, including bosses. Needless to say, most boss characters are far less powerful as allies than as enemies. There are some exceptions, as a few characters can only be recruited by doing sidequests that are available some time after their boss fights.
Line 293 ⟶ 294:
** This had more to do with the new Clayface taking an ''ass-load'' more of the clay that mutated them than Bennett as he became infected intentionally. Also, unlike Bennett, Karlo didn't have to worry about losing control because he didn't care.
* Ben 10's [[Evil Counterpart]] Kevin 11 seems to be going through both this and [[The Worf Effect]] following his mid-series [[Heel Face Turn]] between ''[[Ben 10]]'' and ''[[Ben 10: Alien Force|Ben 10 Alien Force]]''. Justified since he refuses to absorb energy again, which was what made him a dangerous threat in the original series. In ''[[Ben 10: Ultimate Alien]]'' Kevin reveals that absorbing energy like electricity or the Omnitrix's power will drive Osmosians like himself and Aggregor insane.
* [[Alien Among Us|Mark Chang]] on ''[[The Fairly
* When opposing them, Amazo from [[Justice League]] was the most powerful being ever introduced who could [[The Juggernaut|brush off every superhero in existence with minimal effort]]. He fought against Solomon Grundy on the JL's side, lost, and simply left.
** Amazo didn't necessarily lose, He attacked Grundy with the intention of simply erasing him from existence, when his attack seemed to empower grundy he stopped, and concluding that his attacking him again might be dangerous retreated several light-years to come up with a new strategy. He was still thinking about what to do when the episode ended.
* An interesting variant: in ''[[Kim Possible]]'', any time Kim's [[Sidekick]] [[This Loser Is You|Ron]] is turned evil (through [[Applied Phlebotinum]] each time), he's suddenly just as much a [[Evil Laugh|cackling]] [[Mad Scientist]] as [[Harmless Villain|Drakken]], only to go back to his [[Book Dumb|usual self]] as soon as the process is reversed (which, [[Status Quo Is God|naturally]], always happens by the end of the episode).
** "As much as" is something of an understatement. He turns out to be far more effective than Drakken, to the point of actually ''intimidating Shego into backing down''.
* In the ''[[BattleTech]]'' cartoon, Ciro Ramirez is a passionate, competant, but also arrogant and inexperienced Mech Jockey serving under Adam Steiner in the 1st Somerset Strikers. He experienced a reversed form of the trope after his [[Face Heel Turn]], [[Justified]] in that the Clans have better technology, more experience, and presumably gave him the [[Training
* Who could forget Dark Heart from ''[[Care Bears]]''? Before the [[Heel Face Turn]], he was a bad ass shape shifter. Some [[Power of Love]] and [[Clap Your Hands If You Believe]] later, he's a weak human with no powers. [[Pinocchio Syndrome|Becoming a real boy]] is overrated.
* Hexadecimal from ''[[
* Tohru in ''[[Jackie Chan Adventures]]''. In Season 1, he's [[The Brute]] among the villains and very much a [[Mighty Glacier]] who routinely tosses Jackie around like a ragdoll during fight scenes. At the beginning of Season 2, he pulls an abrupt [[Heel Face Turn]] and becomes a [[Gentle Giant]]. Though he can still hold his own in a fight when needed and is always [[The Big Guy]] when teamed with Jackie and/or one of Jackie's other allies, these are few and far between and he's typically not portrayed as the overwhelming powerhouse that he was as a villain in Season 1.
* {{spoiler|Dark Heart turns human}} at the end of ''[[Care Bears Movie II: A New Generation]]'', thus losing his powers, but seemingly couldn't do any real human things until now.
Line 309 ⟶ 310:
[[Category:Action Adventure Tropes]]
[[Category:Player Party]]
[[Category:Redemption Demotion]]▼
[[Category:Redemption Tropes]]
| |||