Sink-or-Swim Mentor: Difference between revisions

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{{quote|''"Okay, Dave, I'm gonna teach you to swim. Now don't be a wussy! (throws Dave into the lake) That's it. One arm over the other. Uh...Crap! Christopher, go save your brother. (throws Christopher in)"''|'''Ken Titus''', ''[[Titus]]''}}
{{quote|''"Okay, Dave, I'm gonna teach you to swim. Now don't be a wussy! (throws Dave into the lake) That's it. One arm over the other. Uh...Crap! Christopher, go save your brother. (throws Christopher in)"''|'''Ken Titus''', ''[[Titus]]''}}


The good news? There's no [[Training From Hell]] with this guy. The bad news? That's because there's no training at all with this guy, at least, not before [[Taught By Experience|you've already survived a pretty critical situation]].
The good news? There's no [[Training from Hell]] with this guy. The bad news? That's because there's no training at all with this guy, at least, not before [[Taught By Experience|you've already survived a pretty critical situation]].


The '''Sink or Swim Mentor''' is a bit of a [[Social Darwinist]]: the strong survive, so it's best to cull the weak as quickly as possible. So instead of training a student for any length of time, this mentor throws them in at the deep end, where his own life - or that of others - depends on his success.
The '''Sink or Swim Mentor''' is a bit of a [[Social Darwinist]]: the strong survive, so it's best to cull the weak as quickly as possible. So instead of training a student for any length of time, this mentor throws them in at the deep end, where his own life - or that of others - depends on his success.
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Occasionally justified in that the main character needs to be able to cope in that kind of situation in order to progress with his vocation; a dragon slayer who needs constant instructions is going to be turned into a kebab before he can say "Now what?" Sometimes, though, it seems as if the mentor is just stoking his own ego, forcing his student to prove themselves "worthy" of their tuition. Generally, however, a benevolent mentor will remain close by during the test-crisis, ready to assist when the students get in over their heads (but not a second before). If they're really feeling generous, the mentor will craft their own realistic crisis simulation so that the students can be tested without any undue risk (naturally, [[Danger Room Cold Open|the student will be unaware of that detail until the end]]).
Occasionally justified in that the main character needs to be able to cope in that kind of situation in order to progress with his vocation; a dragon slayer who needs constant instructions is going to be turned into a kebab before he can say "Now what?" Sometimes, though, it seems as if the mentor is just stoking his own ego, forcing his student to prove themselves "worthy" of their tuition. Generally, however, a benevolent mentor will remain close by during the test-crisis, ready to assist when the students get in over their heads (but not a second before). If they're really feeling generous, the mentor will craft their own realistic crisis simulation so that the students can be tested without any undue risk (naturally, [[Danger Room Cold Open|the student will be unaware of that detail until the end]]).


Usually, after the initial crisis is resolved, the real [[Training From Hell|training]] begins.
Usually, after the initial crisis is resolved, the real [[Training from Hell|training]] begins.


Sometimes overlaps with being a [[Trickster Mentor]] or a [[Fair Weather Mentor]]. In the case of the latter, chances are that the poor student won't last long. He'll be tested so constantly that he's bound to fail at some point, in which case he'll be disowned. Their reliance on testing their student secretly means that a [[Stealth Mentor]] can easily be mistaken for one of these, until they reveal that they haven't just been throwing them to the wolves. See Also, [[Die or Fly]].
Sometimes overlaps with being a [[Trickster Mentor]] or a [[Fair Weather Mentor]]. In the case of the latter, chances are that the poor student won't last long. He'll be tested so constantly that he's bound to fail at some point, in which case he'll be disowned. Their reliance on testing their student secretly means that a [[Stealth Mentor]] can easily be mistaken for one of these, until they reveal that they haven't just been throwing them to the wolves. See Also, [[Die or Fly]].
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* Lisa Lisa from ''[[JoJo's Bizarre Adventure]]'' puts Joseph Joestar through a number of grueling exercises, including placing a "breathing correction" mask that forces him to either breathe in the proper manner required to use [[Ki Attacks|Hamon]] or suffocate, and kicking him down a pit and forcing him to climb up an oil-drenched pillar.
* Lisa Lisa from ''[[JoJo's Bizarre Adventure]]'' puts Joseph Joestar through a number of grueling exercises, including placing a "breathing correction" mask that forces him to either breathe in the proper manner required to use [[Ki Attacks|Hamon]] or suffocate, and kicking him down a pit and forcing him to climb up an oil-drenched pillar.
* ''[[Bleach]]'' overlaps this with [[Training From Hell]], while Ichigo trains with Urahara. The only difference is that rather than having real enemies trying to kill him, Urahara and his associates attempt to do it themselves. First lesson: defeat an opponent who will kill you if she manages to land a single punch. Second lesson: We'll separate your soul from your body, chuck you in a hole, bind your arms, and make you climb out before you turn into a Hollow. By the way, if you fail, we have to kill you for safety reasons. Third lesson: Knock my hat off with your sword. Of course, I'll be trying to kill you with my sword the whole time. Urahara's reasoning is apparently that if Ichigo fails here, he'd end up getting killed anyway, so he doesn't have anything to lose.
* ''[[Bleach]]'' overlaps this with [[Training from Hell]], while Ichigo trains with Urahara. The only difference is that rather than having real enemies trying to kill him, Urahara and his associates attempt to do it themselves. First lesson: defeat an opponent who will kill you if she manages to land a single punch. Second lesson: We'll separate your soul from your body, chuck you in a hole, bind your arms, and make you climb out before you turn into a Hollow. By the way, if you fail, we have to kill you for safety reasons. Third lesson: Knock my hat off with your sword. Of course, I'll be trying to kill you with my sword the whole time. Urahara's reasoning is apparently that if Ichigo fails here, he'd end up getting killed anyway, so he doesn't have anything to lose.
** However, they didn't have time for traditional training, having only two weeks to invade Soul Society single-handedly and rescue Rukia, so the more extreme "do or die" method of training was warranted.
** However, they didn't have time for traditional training, having only two weeks to invade Soul Society single-handedly and rescue Rukia, so the more extreme "do or die" method of training was warranted.
* {{spoiler|Eriol}} from ''[[Cardcaptor Sakura]]'' combines this with the [[Stealth Mentor]] trope.
* {{spoiler|Eriol}} from ''[[Cardcaptor Sakura]]'' combines this with the [[Stealth Mentor]] trope.
* ''[[Gravitation]]'': K and Tohma, while not really mentors in the strictest sense of the word, figure that the best way to promote Bad Luck and inspire Shuichi is to throw the band in front of television cameras at the first available opportunity. This continues well into Shuichi's career, with most of the jobs that K lines up for him being done on the spur of the moment. Perhaps [[Justified Trope|justified]] (or at least [[Lampshaded]]) by both K and Tohma's assertion that a true star should be able to cope with this kind of pressure all the time.
* ''[[Gravitation]]'': K and Tohma, while not really mentors in the strictest sense of the word, figure that the best way to promote Bad Luck and inspire Shuichi is to throw the band in front of television cameras at the first available opportunity. This continues well into Shuichi's career, with most of the jobs that K lines up for him being done on the spur of the moment. Perhaps [[Justified Trope|justified]] (or at least [[Lampshaded]]) by both K and Tohma's assertion that a true star should be able to cope with this kind of pressure all the time.
* Kalos Eidos in ''[[Kaleido Star]]'' subjects Sora to extremely hard [[Training From Hell]] to get ready for her roles, and at one point he even fires her when she fails to meet his expectations. To be fair, the Stage's super star Layla was subjected to similar training, and at some point she tells Sora {{spoiler|that Kalos told her and Yuri Killian that they'd be fired if they didn't win the Circus Festival. And that was when Yuri and Layla ''had pretty much reached their peak of popularity and techniques'', unlike Sora who still had a way to go}}.
* Kalos Eidos in ''[[Kaleido Star]]'' subjects Sora to extremely hard [[Training from Hell]] to get ready for her roles, and at one point he even fires her when she fails to meet his expectations. To be fair, the Stage's super star Layla was subjected to similar training, and at some point she tells Sora {{spoiler|that Kalos told her and Yuri Killian that they'd be fired if they didn't win the Circus Festival. And that was when Yuri and Layla ''had pretty much reached their peak of popularity and techniques'', unlike Sora who still had a way to go}}.
* In ''[[Katekyo Hitman Reborn]]'', pretty much every single mentor [[Butt Monkey|Tsuna]] has had? It ''does'' tend to pay off, though - each time Tsuna goes through a life and death situation, he tends to come out with more badass weaponry.
* In ''[[Katekyo Hitman Reborn]]'', pretty much every single mentor [[Butt Monkey|Tsuna]] has had? It ''does'' tend to pay off, though - each time Tsuna goes through a life and death situation, he tends to come out with more badass weaponry.
* Meta Knight in the ''[[Kirby]]'' [[Kirby of the Stars|anime]] isn't afraid to defend himself, but very rarely intervenes much beyond exposition and small pieces of advice when Kirby is facing the [[Monster of the Week]], leaving Kirby to [[Mega Manning|copy an ability]] and [[Let's Get Dangerous|get with the ass kicking]], or Tiff to figure out the problem, or on occasion with other characters as well. Tiff frequently calls him out on this, but eventually gives up.
* Meta Knight in the ''[[Kirby]]'' [[Kirby: Right Back at Ya!|anime]] isn't afraid to defend himself, but very rarely intervenes much beyond exposition and small pieces of advice when Kirby is facing the [[Monster of the Week]], leaving Kirby to [[Mega Manning|copy an ability]] and [[Let's Get Dangerous|get with the ass kicking]], or Tiff to figure out the problem, or on occasion with other characters as well. Tiff frequently calls him out on this, but eventually gives up.
* In ''[[The Law of Ueki]]'', the rules say that a god candidate (the mentor) can't help their student in battle. If they do, [[Mentor Occupational Hazard|they get sent to Hell]]. The end result: A bunch of junior high school kids with [[What Kind of Lame Power Is Heart, Anyway?|relatively useless or restricted supernatural powers]] running around, who are essentially making things up as they go along.
* In ''[[The Law of Ueki]]'', the rules say that a god candidate (the mentor) can't help their student in battle. If they do, [[Mentor Occupational Hazard|they get sent to Hell]]. The end result: A bunch of junior high school kids with [[What Kind of Lame Power Is Heart, Anyway?|relatively useless or restricted supernatural powers]] running around, who are essentially making things up as they go along.
** Kobayashi more so than the others. He didn't tell Ueki anything about the tournament until the poor kid had already gotten into a fight, and even then he only spilled because Mori and Ueki broke into his house.
** Kobayashi more so than the others. He didn't tell Ueki anything about the tournament until the poor kid had already gotten into a fight, and even then he only spilled because Mori and Ueki broke into his house.
*** To be fair, though, Koba-sen did say he only participated in the first place to test Ueki's sense of justice, and {{spoiler|energetically told Ueki to drop out of the tournament and live his own life the way he wanted to before suffering the [[Mentor Occupational Hazard]]}}.
*** To be fair, though, Koba-sen did say he only participated in the first place to test Ueki's sense of justice, and {{spoiler|energetically told Ueki to drop out of the tournament and live his own life the way he wanted to before suffering the [[Mentor Occupational Hazard]]}}.
* ''[[Mahou Sensei Negima]]'': Evangeline foists this on Asuna to get her to use her [[Yin-Yang Bomb|Kanka]] ability correctly. She dumps Asuna in the Himalayas, essentially forcing her to figure out the technique or freeze to death.
* ''[[Mahou Sensei Negima]]'': Evangeline foists this on Asuna to get her to use her [[Yin-Yang Bomb|Kanka]] ability correctly. She dumps Asuna in the Himalayas, essentially forcing her to figure out the technique or freeze to death.
** The scary part is that this was the [[Secret Test of Character|admissions test]]. Asuna was left with a (presumably) enchanted bell with which to "tap out", and her [[Determinator|refusal to do either that or die of exposure]] was what convinced Evangeline to start [[Training From Hell|training Asuna for real]].
** The scary part is that this was the [[Secret Test of Character|admissions test]]. Asuna was left with a (presumably) enchanted bell with which to "tap out", and her [[Determinator|refusal to do either that or die of exposure]] was what convinced Evangeline to start [[Training from Hell|training Asuna for real]].
** To be fair, although Asuna thought she had to learn Kanka or die, [[Noble Demon|Evangeline]] stayed in the mountains for the entire time, just in case something went wrong (presumably something along the lines of Asuna passing out from cold before being able to ring the bell).
** To be fair, although Asuna thought she had to learn Kanka or die, [[Noble Demon|Evangeline]] stayed in the mountains for the entire time, just in case something went wrong (presumably something along the lines of Asuna passing out from cold before being able to ring the bell).
*** However, Asuna ''did'' pass out from cold before ringing the bell. Twice. The first time her repressed memory of how to use Kanka saved her, but by all rights she should never have woken up the second time. When she did wake up she was covered in ice, unable to move, barely able to think, almost too far gone to reactivate the kanka and save herself. Chachazero even said "she was almost dead, too!" If Eva had actually been there to save Asuna, that would have been the point to pull her out.
*** However, Asuna ''did'' pass out from cold before ringing the bell. Twice. The first time her repressed memory of how to use Kanka saved her, but by all rights she should never have woken up the second time. When she did wake up she was covered in ice, unable to move, barely able to think, almost too far gone to reactivate the kanka and save herself. Chachazero even said "she was almost dead, too!" If Eva had actually been there to save Asuna, that would have been the point to pull her out.
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== Web Comics ==
== Web Comics ==


* Klaus Wulfenbach from ''[[Girl Genius]]'' shows aspects of this towards his son. It could be seen as [[Training From Hell]], but the tests aren't training; they're a blatant attempt to kill Gilgamesh if he can't take the heat. And [[Badass Bookworm]] Gilgamesh is up to the challenge.
* Klaus Wulfenbach from ''[[Girl Genius]]'' shows aspects of this towards his son. It could be seen as [[Training from Hell]], but the tests aren't training; they're a blatant attempt to kill Gilgamesh if he can't take the heat. And [[Badass Bookworm]] Gilgamesh is up to the challenge.
** To be fair to Klaus, he'd...well, he'd ''probably'' be sad if Gil couldn't hold up.
** To be fair to Klaus, he'd...well, he'd ''probably'' be sad if Gil couldn't hold up.
* Jones of ''[[Gunnerkrigg Court]]'' plainly [http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=394 told her student] she's going to instruct, but not spoon-feed ready solutions. Maybe this only means she doesn't feel it's her right to, but the detached precision is so much in her style that Annie suspected Jones is a robot and some [[Wild Mass Guessing|fans suspect]] she's a ''[[Physical God|goddess]]''.
* Jones of ''[[Gunnerkrigg Court]]'' plainly [http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=394 told her student] she's going to instruct, but not spoon-feed ready solutions. Maybe this only means she doesn't feel it's her right to, but the detached precision is so much in her style that Annie suspected Jones is a robot and some [[Wild Mass Guessing|fans suspect]] she's a ''[[Physical God|goddess]]''.
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{{reflist}}
{{reflist}}
[[Category:Mentors]]
[[Category:Mentors]]
[[Category:Sink or Swim Mentor]]
[[Category:Abuse Tropes]]
[[Category:Abuse Tropes]]
[[Category:{{PAGENAME}}]]