Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism/Film: Difference between revisions

Content added Content deleted
VisualWikitext
(clean up)
m (Mass update links)
Line 4: Line 4:
** Note that despite its overall idealist tone, the film generally considered to be the best in the series is ''[[The Empire Strikes Back]]'', possibly the darkest. The same applies to ''[[Revenge of the Sith]]'', which was considered to be the best of the prequel trilogy.
** Note that despite its overall idealist tone, the film generally considered to be the best in the series is ''[[The Empire Strikes Back]]'', possibly the darkest. The same applies to ''[[Revenge of the Sith]]'', which was considered to be the best of the prequel trilogy.
* ''[[Rambo (Film)|Rambo]]'' has its foot firmly planted in the cynical side. The pacifistic missionaries attempting to peacefully change civil-war torn Burma are naive and misguided, whilst the gritty, war-hardened mercenaries are the only ones who can defeat the evil forces leading that regime. It's showing its '80s action-movie pedigree. The common theme in most of those films was that diplomacy was useless against America's enemies, and that [[Strawman Political|lawyers and judges existed solely to let drug dealers and sociopathic murderers back on the streets]]. In both cases, one or two [[Badass|Badasses]] unconstrained by rules were all you needed to defeat Third World dictators or clear the streets of crime.
* ''[[Rambo (Film)|Rambo]]'' has its foot firmly planted in the cynical side. The pacifistic missionaries attempting to peacefully change civil-war torn Burma are naive and misguided, whilst the gritty, war-hardened mercenaries are the only ones who can defeat the evil forces leading that regime. It's showing its '80s action-movie pedigree. The common theme in most of those films was that diplomacy was useless against America's enemies, and that [[Strawman Political|lawyers and judges existed solely to let drug dealers and sociopathic murderers back on the streets]]. In both cases, one or two [[Badass|Badasses]] unconstrained by rules were all you needed to defeat Third World dictators or clear the streets of crime.
* ''[[Short Circuit (Film)|Short Circuit]]'' had this kind of conflict between the idealistic Newton Crosby ([[PHD]], who wanted to capture the wayward Number 5 intact and unharmed to study why it was acting the way it was) and the cynical Captain Skroeder (who had a bit of a [[General Ripper|technophobic streak]] and was understandably wanting to take the robot out before it could do any harm with its ''fully armed and combat-ready laser weapon''; [[Word of God]] has even admitted that despite being the villain for the movie, he is still doing the right and logical thing by trying to destroy Number 5). Also, the crew purposely used this trope in combination with [[What Measure Is a Non Human]], wanting to get away from the "idealistic" approach of having the characters treat their start as always being "alive" and instead explore the question of how people would react to [[Instant AI Just Add Water|artificial intelligence]] in real life (their answer being that no one would believe it for a second).
* ''[[Short Circuit (Film)|Short Circuit]]'' had this kind of conflict between the idealistic Newton Crosby ([[PHD]], who wanted to capture the wayward Number 5 intact and unharmed to study why it was acting the way it was) and the cynical Captain Skroeder (who had a bit of a [[General Ripper|technophobic streak]] and was understandably wanting to take the robot out before it could do any harm with its ''fully armed and combat-ready laser weapon''; [[Word of God]] has even admitted that despite being the villain for the movie, he is still doing the right and logical thing by trying to destroy Number 5). Also, the crew purposely used this trope in combination with [[What Measure Is a Non-Human?]], wanting to get away from the "idealistic" approach of having the characters treat their start as always being "alive" and instead explore the question of how people would react to [[Instant AI, Just Add Water|artificial intelligence]] in real life (their answer being that no one would believe it for a second).
* Mexican films can be divided in two. Back in [[The Fifties]], during the Golden Age, Mexican movies were the most idealistic films you could ever imagine, with lovable characters who were the absolute incarnation of Christian poverty and all the implied heavenly bliss and richness of spirit, often becoming [[The Woobie]] of the rich guys who were the incarnation of the [[Seven Deadly Sins]]. On the other hand, pretty much every single Mexican film made in [[The Nineties]] and later lies ''far, far away'' towards the Cynical side of the scale, with plots often involving massive trainloads of suffering and misery, often portraying Mexico as a grim, gritty place, sometimes (e.g. ''Amores perros'' or ''Perfume de violetas'') ''even more Cynical than [[Neon Genesis Evangelion|Evangelion]]!''
* Mexican films can be divided in two. Back in [[The Fifties]], during the Golden Age, Mexican movies were the most idealistic films you could ever imagine, with lovable characters who were the absolute incarnation of Christian poverty and all the implied heavenly bliss and richness of spirit, often becoming [[The Woobie]] of the rich guys who were the incarnation of the [[Seven Deadly Sins]]. On the other hand, pretty much every single Mexican film made in [[The Nineties]] and later lies ''far, far away'' towards the Cynical side of the scale, with plots often involving massive trainloads of suffering and misery, often portraying Mexico as a grim, gritty place, sometimes (e.g. ''Amores perros'' or ''Perfume de violetas'') ''even more Cynical than [[Neon Genesis Evangelion|Evangelion]]!''
** This is justified due to censorship, since the Mexican government wanted to give the best image about the country after the [[Mexican Revolution]], but this changed in the 60s with the Luis Buñuel's movie ''Los Olvidados,'' who was the [[Ur Example]] of the genre.
** This is justified due to censorship, since the Mexican government wanted to give the best image about the country after the [[Mexican Revolution]], but this changed in the 60s with the Luis Buñuel's movie ''Los Olvidados,'' who was the [[Ur Example]] of the genre.
Line 18: Line 18:
** Actually, the original ending involved Jim dying. The only reason cynicism didn't prevail is because test audiences found it too depressing.
** Actually, the original ending involved Jim dying. The only reason cynicism didn't prevail is because test audiences found it too depressing.
** Then came the sequel, {{spoiler|in which there is utterly no hope.}}
** Then came the sequel, {{spoiler|in which there is utterly no hope.}}
* The major reason why ''[[Life Is Beautiful|La vita è bella]]'' was so critically acclaimed was thanks to its ability to keep a fluffy idealist tone ''in the middle of a freaking concentration camp''. It also sparked controversy for [[Dude Not Funny|having a sympathetic protagonist trying to distract from the horrors of the Holocaust with slapstick]].
* The major reason why ''[[Life Is Beautiful|La vita è bella]]'' was so critically acclaimed was thanks to its ability to keep a fluffy idealist tone ''in the middle of a freaking concentration camp''. It also sparked controversy for [[Dude, Not Funny|having a sympathetic protagonist trying to distract from the horrors of the Holocaust with slapstick]].
* ''[[Dead Poets Society]]'' liked to play with this trope. A LOT. It tends to be more on the idealistic side on the whole, but the entire subplot about the conflict between Neil and his father is definitely one of the most cynical moments in Peter Weir films, like...ever.
* ''[[Dead Poets Society]]'' liked to play with this trope. A LOT. It tends to be more on the idealistic side on the whole, but the entire subplot about the conflict between Neil and his father is definitely one of the most cynical moments in Peter Weir films, like...ever.
* ''[[Lord of War]]'' was on the deep end of the cynical side. It features an arms dealer selling guns to African warlords and avoiding the law as he works himself to the heart of the gunrunning trade. The only idealistic characters are the Interpol Agent Valentine and Yuri's brother Vitaly. In the end of the movie {{spoiler|Vitaly is killed and the massacre he was trying to prevent is carried out anyway. Valentine manages to arrest Yuri but becomes disillusioned after Yuri uses his government contacts to get himself free and keep doing his work}}. Yuri himself talks about how [[Black and Grey Morality|grey morality]] is his favorite brand of morality and delivers this beautifully heartbreaking line towards the end: ''They say evil prevails when good men fail to act. What they ought to say is: Evil prevails.''
* ''[[Lord of War]]'' was on the deep end of the cynical side. It features an arms dealer selling guns to African warlords and avoiding the law as he works himself to the heart of the gunrunning trade. The only idealistic characters are the Interpol Agent Valentine and Yuri's brother Vitaly. In the end of the movie {{spoiler|Vitaly is killed and the massacre he was trying to prevent is carried out anyway. Valentine manages to arrest Yuri but becomes disillusioned after Yuri uses his government contacts to get himself free and keep doing his work}}. Yuri himself talks about how [[Black and Grey Morality|grey morality]] is his favorite brand of morality and delivers this beautifully heartbreaking line towards the end: ''They say evil prevails when good men fail to act. What they ought to say is: Evil prevails.''
Line 25: Line 25:
* ''[[Juno]]'' has taken a lot of flak for just how far to the idealism end of the scale it goes re: its treatment of teen pregnancy and its consequences.
* ''[[Juno]]'' has taken a lot of flak for just how far to the idealism end of the scale it goes re: its treatment of teen pregnancy and its consequences.
* ''[[August Rush]]'' is idealistic [[Tastes Like Diabetes|in the extreme]], to the point of being implausible - a 12-year-old learns to compose full symphonies and play multiple instruments without any musical training, AND he gets admitted to the Julliard School (not their preparatory program, like other pre-college musicians would, but the ''college itself''), ''and'' his cutesy piece manages to impress a 21st-century composition faculty so much that they get him a reading with the New York Philharmonic? ''And'' {{spoiler|it happens to be the same concert his mom is playing, and which his dad attends}}? [[Tastes Like Diabetes|No wonder]] so many critics panned it.
* ''[[August Rush]]'' is idealistic [[Tastes Like Diabetes|in the extreme]], to the point of being implausible - a 12-year-old learns to compose full symphonies and play multiple instruments without any musical training, AND he gets admitted to the Julliard School (not their preparatory program, like other pre-college musicians would, but the ''college itself''), ''and'' his cutesy piece manages to impress a 21st-century composition faculty so much that they get him a reading with the New York Philharmonic? ''And'' {{spoiler|it happens to be the same concert his mom is playing, and which his dad attends}}? [[Tastes Like Diabetes|No wonder]] so many critics panned it.
* Critics accused ''[[Valentines Day]]'' of being a bit too much on the cynical side for a romantic-comedy (one reviewer compared it to "expecting milk chocolate but getting baking (bitter) chocolate instead"; another compared it to "getting bad Valentine candy from a pretty/handsome person" in reference to the brilliant but wasted [[All Star Cast]]), especially compared to its [[Spiritual Successor]] [[Follow the Leader|predecessor]] ''[[Love Actually]]''.
* Critics accused ''[[Valentines Day]]'' of being a bit too much on the cynical side for a romantic-comedy (one reviewer compared it to "expecting milk chocolate but getting baking (bitter) chocolate instead"; another compared it to "getting bad Valentine candy from a pretty/handsome person" in reference to the brilliant but wasted [[All-Star Cast]]), especially compared to its [[Spiritual Successor]] [[Follow the Leader|predecessor]] ''[[Love Actually]]''.
* [[Tempting Fate|When you make a non-parodic deconstruction]] [[Film Noir|of a genre that is already quite on the cynical end of the scale]], do not expect [[The Element of Crime|the result]] to have [[Black and Gray Morality|much idealism left]].
* [[Tempting Fate|When you make a non-parodic deconstruction]] [[Film Noir|of a genre that is already quite on the cynical end of the scale]], do not expect [[The Element of Crime|the result]] to have [[Black and Gray Morality|much idealism left]].
* The 1976 film ''[[Network]]''. Talk about your cynical films! But the craziest thing of all about that film is that the film was actually considered a [[Slice of Life]] docudrama by TV news people, which makes sense considering Paddy Chayefsky (who wrote the film's screenplay) [[Shown Their Work|consulted with actual reporters and behind-the-scenes TV news people]] while writing his script.
* The 1976 film ''[[Network]]''. Talk about your cynical films! But the craziest thing of all about that film is that the film was actually considered a [[Slice of Life]] docudrama by TV news people, which makes sense considering Paddy Chayefsky (who wrote the film's screenplay) [[Shown Their Work|consulted with actual reporters and behind-the-scenes TV news people]] while writing his script.
Line 35: Line 35:
* The [[Marvel Cinematic Universe]], as a whole, tends strongly to the idealistic side, which provides an interesting contrast to [[Mark Millar]]'s very cynical [[The Ultimates|Ultimates]] comic book run, which a lot of the movie continuity takes elements from. However, there are still some [[Bittersweet Ending|bittersweet moments]], if the endings for both ''[[Thor (Film)|Thor]]'' and ''[[Captain America the First Avenger]]'' are any proof.
* The [[Marvel Cinematic Universe]], as a whole, tends strongly to the idealistic side, which provides an interesting contrast to [[Mark Millar]]'s very cynical [[The Ultimates|Ultimates]] comic book run, which a lot of the movie continuity takes elements from. However, there are still some [[Bittersweet Ending|bittersweet moments]], if the endings for both ''[[Thor (Film)|Thor]]'' and ''[[Captain America the First Avenger]]'' are any proof.
** A major part of the conflict in the Avengers' team will stem from Steve Rogers' "outdated and irrelevant" idealism clashing head on with Tony Stark's hedonistic and materialistic cynicism. Ironically, Steve and Howard (Tony's father) were friends and allies during World War II.
** A major part of the conflict in the Avengers' team will stem from Steve Rogers' "outdated and irrelevant" idealism clashing head on with Tony Stark's hedonistic and materialistic cynicism. Ironically, Steve and Howard (Tony's father) were friends and allies during World War II.
* The ''[[Alien (Film)|Alien]]'' series ultimately lands on the far end of the cynical side. Aside from Ripley and a few other heroic characters, the universe of the movies is very much a [[Crapsack World]] where uncaring governments and profit-driven [[Mega Corp|MegaCorps]] place little value on human lives [[For Science|as long as they can experiment on them]] with alien [[Super Soldier|SuperSoldiers]].
* The ''[[Alien (Film)|Alien]]'' series ultimately lands on the far end of the cynical side. Aside from Ripley and a few other heroic characters, the universe of the movies is very much a [[Crapsack World]] where uncaring governments and profit-driven [[Mega Corp|MegaCorps]] place little value on human lives [[For Science!|as long as they can experiment on them]] with alien [[Super Soldier|SuperSoldiers]].
* ''[[Apocalypse Now]]'' is about as cynical as it gets. [[War Is Hell]] and [[Humans Are Bastards]] are the defining tropes of the film.
* ''[[Apocalypse Now]]'' is about as cynical as it gets. [[War Is Hell]] and [[Humans Are Bastards]] are the defining tropes of the film.
* ''[[Blade Runner]]'' is fairly cynical, with a heavily [[Dystopia|dystopian]] interpretation of the future and [[Grey and Black Morality]] at best. The ending is slightly more positive, though, because the film is ultimately about an [[Anti Hero]] [[Heel Realization|realizing the error of his ways]].
* ''[[Blade Runner]]'' is fairly cynical, with a heavily [[Dystopia|dystopian]] interpretation of the future and [[Grey and Black Morality]] at best. The ending is slightly more positive, though, because the film is ultimately about an [[Anti-Hero]] [[Heel Realization|realizing the error of his ways]].
* ''[[The Terminator]]'' is ultimately a very idealistic film series, despite its [[Apocalypse How|bleak vision of the future]]. Many characters make [[Heroic Sacrifice|HeroicSacrifices]] and discover [[The Power of Love]].
* ''[[The Terminator]]'' is ultimately a very idealistic film series, despite its [[Apocalypse How|bleak vision of the future]]. Many characters make [[Heroic Sacrifice|HeroicSacrifices]] and discover [[The Power of Love]].
* Most comedies nowadays usually go into the cynical side, as most of the humor is either offensive, gross or satirical.
* Most comedies nowadays usually go into the cynical side, as most of the humor is either offensive, gross or satirical.
Line 48: Line 48:
* Compare ''Beauty and the Beast'' with ''King Kong''.
* Compare ''Beauty and the Beast'' with ''King Kong''.
* ''Nil By Mouth'' is heavily on the cynical side, but might waver a bit depending on you're interpretation of the ending.
* ''Nil By Mouth'' is heavily on the cynical side, but might waver a bit depending on you're interpretation of the ending.
* ''[[A League of Their Own]]'', a Penny Marshall's film [[Based On a True Story]] of women's baseball while the male players were out fighting in [[World War II]], is a cynical take on the gender role in the American society and as a result several absurd requirements for female players to place beauty over ability in the ballpark.
* ''[[A League of Their Own]]'', a Penny Marshall's film [[Based on a True Story]] of women's baseball while the male players were out fighting in [[World War II]], is a cynical take on the gender role in the American society and as a result several absurd requirements for female players to place beauty over ability in the ballpark.


{{reflist}}
{{reflist}}
Retrieved from "https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Sliding_Scale_of_Idealism_Versus_Cynicism/Film"