Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism/Video Games: Difference between revisions

** For ''[[Final Fantasy II]]'', although Firon, Maria, and Guy tend to be pretty positive people, wishing for a world without the threat of conflict, the rest of the world leans towards what the writers did with ''[[Final Fantasy VI]]''. Pretty much everyone on the planet is dead, those who aren't have had their confidence massively shaken or are forced to give up the fight, the most idealistic member of the playable cast (Ming-Wu/Minwu) dies pathetically just to give you access to a [[Useless Useful Spell]] and some stat-ups, at the end of the game the party [[Nakama]]--doubling—doubling as the hero's own ''family''--is—is still splintered due to one member's ([[The Hero]]'s and [[The Chick]]'s ''brother'') ongoing guilt over his own evil actions prior to [[Heel Face Turn]], and, unbeknownst to all of them, [[Nice Job Breaking It, Hero|because they killed him]], the ''[[Big Bad]] is'' '''still''' ''tearing ass through Heaven, wreaking havoc.'' {{spoiler|Fortunately, all those party members he killed over the course of the game can school him, but ''daaaaaamn.''}}

** ''[[Dissidia Final Fantasy]]'' pits the two against each other. The Warriors of Cosmos lean idealistic with their emphasis on friendship and hope for a better world. In contrast, the Warriors of Chaos are mostly nihilistic or fatalistic, even the [[Token Good Teammate|Token Good Teammates]]s.

* ''[[Enslaved: Odyssey to the West]]'' is a rather cynical game, what with [[EndoftheThe End of the World Asas We Know It|the world having ended as we know it]] after a giant war that left cities completely reclaimed by nature and mechs and slavers killing or enslaving the surviving populations; communities can't go long without attracting unwanted attention to be of real safety, many people are completely unafraid of giving up others' lives to save their own, and everything just [[Crapsack World|all-around sucks]]. The premise of the game has to do with Monkey being enslaved by Trip to take her home after they were both captured by slavers; when they finally reach Trip's community, {{spoiler|they find that the town had been revisited by slavers, just as [[The Cynic|Monkey had predicted]], killing or enslaving all remaining survivors. Trip then goes back on her promise to release Monkey, and she decides to get revenge on Pyramid, the one doing the enslaving.}} Things don't get much better when they add Pigsy to their group, who {{spoiler|tries to get Monkey killed out of jealousy}}, and though he helps them get a weapon capable of defeating Pyramid, it looks like everything's over when they are swarmed by Pyramid's own mega-mechs. {{spoiler|Pigsy then sacrifices his life to allow Monkey and Trip to destroy Pyramid, which results in the discovery of Pyramid as a [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]] who shared his memories of the world before the war with the slaves through the slave headbands, allowing them to "live" in his virtual reality instead of survive in the real world. Monkey sees the world the slaves see and remarks on its beauty before Trip kills Pyramid, pulling the slaves from their idealistic virtual life. She has to ask if she did the right thing.}}

*** ''[[Nie RNieR]]'' is certainly so. After beating the game once, you can play again, and now you can understand Shade language, {{spoiler|after finding out Shades are actually materialised human souls.}} Well, the player can. Which means that you find out that all of the bosses you fight are {{spoiler|either learning to be better people, getting revenge for a terrible crime humans committed, trying to save their daughter or}} not evil at all. And you kill them, no matter what. Oh, and while the first ending is good out of ignorance, and the second reveals that a character thought dead actually ''isn't'', the third and fourth are agonising {{spoiler|because one party member goes crazy because she thinks the other is dead. Which means either you or her die. No third option. And if you die, your daughter forgets everything about you. And the other party member is alive! No one needed to die at all!}}

{{quote| '''Micaiah:''' I'm killing with no malice, because I don't want anyone to be killed...}}

** To be precise, The first [[Fire Emblem]] and ''[[Fire Emblem Jugdral|Seisen No Keifu]]'' are the most cynical of the series where horrible things like rape, human sacrifice rituals and even an entire generation failing to stop the dark plot which would fit well in something like [[Ogre Battle]]. ''[[Fire Emblem: theThe Sacred Stones]]'' was the most idealistic as before the events, Magvel has been, for all intents and purposes, a utopia who did not seen war without external influence. Telius and Elibe is somewhere is the middle.

* The ''[[Command and& Conquer]]'' series has problems deciding if it should be cynical or idealistic. ''Tiberium Dawn'' points out that there isn't a clear-cut difference between good and bad, but there are clear moral differences between the GDI and the Brotherhood of Nod. ''Tiberian Sun'' goes even further down the cynical lane and has corruptible GDI officers and General Solomon runs some morally ambiguous plots, as well as references to Death Camps and genocide by virtue of Nod. However, the game ends on a high note no matter which side you play, allowing each side's objectives to be accomplished. ''Tiberium Wars'' goes even further with it's inconclusive ending, downright incompetent GDI commanders and horrible state of the Earth. Tiberian Dawn ends the Tiberium Saga on a high note as followers of NOD went on a [[Ascend to a Higher Plane of Existence|Higher Plane Of Existence]] while the Tiberium is effectively controlled.

** While [[Nippon Ichi]] is very much in the business of making [[Sliding Scale of Silliness Versus Seriousness|silly and humorously-themed games]], the cynicism to idealism content varies. Above mentioned ''[[Phantom Brave]]'' is mainly idealistic, followed by the slightly more downcast ''[[Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories]]'' and ''[[La Pucelle]]''. ''[[Disgaea]]'', ''[[Disgaea 3: Absence of Justice]]'' and ''[[Makai Kingdom]]'', being focused around demons and the netherworld, are slightly more cynical as their protagonists tend to be cynics more than idealists. ''[[Soul Nomad and The World Eaters]]'' is by far the most cynical of all the games -- itgames—it's a [[World Half Empty]] hit by a [[Depopulation Bomb]], [[The Lancer]] is the [[Omnicidal Maniac]] responsible for it, and things such as slavery and child abuse take place in the story. Notably, though, all of these games have [[Multiple Endings]] and alternate storylines however, and some of the [[Road Cone|canon endings as seen in later installments]] wreak havoc on the list.

* The ''[[EarthboundEarthBound|Mother]]'' series is firmly on the Idealistic side. ''[[Mother 3]]'' gets [[Tear Jerker|darker]] than its predecessors, but [[The Power of Love]] still comes through in the end. There's a reason the unofficial series theme song is called "Pollyanna".

* Despite quite a few of their works being [[Low Fantasy]], a genre often at the cynical end, ''anything'' made by ''Gust Incorporated'' (most known for making the [[Atelier Series(franchise)|Atelier]]) will be very, very idealistic. Half the villains (even the [[Big Bad|Big Bads]]s) will eventually undergo [[Heel Face Turn|Heel Face Turns]]s, and those who don't will probably be [[Smug Snake|egotistical]] [[Complete Monster|Complete Monsters]]s that deserve [[Karmic Death|everything they get]]. None of the good guys will ever die or have anything truly bad happen to them, and if they do die they'll usually have [[Multiple Endings|an alternate ending]] where they get to survive and live [[Happily Ever After]].

* ''[[EveEVE Online]]'' falls on the cynical side. One of the four major powers is a [[The Empire|slaveholding theocratic empire]], while another is a corporate-run dictatorship. And every player is a [[Heroic Sociopath]].

** ''[[Chrono Cross]]'', however, is a bit more difficult to place on the scale. On the one hand, [[Humans Are Bastardsthe Real Monsters]] who pollute the planet and discriminate against demihumans, time travel dooms other timelines to non-existence, and several characters from [[Chrono Trigger]] are stated or implied to be dead. On the other hand, fate can still be fought against ({{spoiler|[[Climax Boss|literally]]}}), humans are still perfectly capable of living in peace with other beings, and the ending outright says that every being can create its own fate and none are worthless. All in all, it's still on the idealistic side, but much closer to the center.

** ''[[Devil Survivor]]'' draws from both sides and takes a hard look at them. It's got some very pointed and nasty [[Humans Are Bastardsthe Real Monsters|comments on human nature]], most of the police are corrupt thugs with badges, guns and COMPs, the [[Magical Girl]] is [[Cloudcuckoolander|completely out of touch with reality]], and the heroic [[Bully Hunter]] [[He Who Fights Monsters|becomes no better than the thugs he kills]]. But the [[Aesop]], as shown in the [[Downer Ending]] and an early [[Nonstandard Game Over]], utterly subverts this and takes a [[A Worldwide Punomenon|Shonen Jump]] over to idealistic: "Running from your problems won't solve anything. If the world sucks, then ''do something about it''!" The endings are all over the spectrum: purely idealistic ( {{spoiler|Gin's ending}}), [[Esoteric Happy Ending|esoterically idealistic]]: ( {{spoiler|Amane's}}), nuanced but mostly idealistic: {{spoiler|Atsuro's}} ruthlessly cynical ( {{spoiler|Naoya's}}), and {{spoiler|Yuzu's}}, which is a cynical [[Downer Ending]] used to [[Anvilicious|drive home]] the game's idealistic Aesop.

* ''[[City of Heroes]]/[[City of Villains]]'' is an interesting case. While the games take on the expected roles on both sides of the fence (Heroes being very Idealistic and Villains being very Cynical), in the [[MetaMetagame]], it is reverse. You are more likely to find a [["Stop Having Fun!" Guys]] who will drop from the team once they reach the mission's boss (sometimes, they do this ''en massmasse'', leaving the person who set the mission up to deal with finding replacements so that they can advance while they leave with the spoils of war, or most of them anyway) on Heroes rather than Villains, which is a tightly knit community of people out to enjoy a game. This is in all likely-hoodlikelihood due to the idea that the "devs hate red" and the people who end up playing Villains are generally doing it to have fun, while the people who want to win go to Heroes.

** The recently implemented morality system allows heroes and villains to run the gamut with four stops: Hero (fully idealistic)-> Vigilante (A cynical [[Anti-Hero]] [[Fallen Hero|falling]] to the [[Dark Side]])-> Villain (fully cynical)-> Rogue (A still cynical, but becoming idealistic [[Anti-Villain]])-> Hero.

** Even then ''[[Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas|San Andreas]]'' was more optimistic than the other ''[[Grand Theft Auto]]'' games in the franchise. Carl and Sweet managed to defeat the corrupt cops and their traitors without losing anyone close to them, especially after Cesar pulled a Retirony moment out. Compared to what happens to the later [[Grand Theft Auto]] Protagonists, San Andreas is by far the most optimistic of the franchise as the sequels will not be so kind to the other protagonists who loses everything close to them.

{{quote| The Truth: You know, I mean, you beat the system! I tried for thirty years to cross over, but you've maaaanaged it, man! I mean, man, you're an icon, man!"}}

*** Follwed up by ''[[Grand Theft Auto IV: theThe Lost Andand Damned]]'' and ''[[Grand Theft Auto Chinatown Wars]]'', in ''The Lost and Damned'', {{spoiler|Johnny's gang war lead to the slow but eventual fall of his gang and all of the tragedy that goes along with it and in the end just wants the club be put out of it's own misery}}, In ''Chinatown Wars'' {{spoiler|Huang gets caught in a power struggles that leaves everyone in his Triads gang, from his traitorous uncle, to the men he recruited for the Triads to protect them from trouble and to the girl who he met and later see die in his eyes. All of them are killed in some way...}}

* ''[[Sim CitySimCity]]'', despite being just a simple city-building game, resides heavily in the cynical scale, especially with ''[[Sim CitySimCity]] 2000'' and later titles, in which your advisers seem to only focus on their department, without caring much about the other city services (a good portion of the time, you financial adviser is total [[Jerkass]] and finds that even a few dollars ''that could be saved'' going into ''funding for education and health'' to be a bad thing). Likewise, considering [[Video Game Cruelty Potential|all the horrible natural disasters and general poor mayoring]] that can be done to your citizens, it's surprising that they would want to even stick around and still keep you in office.

** [[Sim CitySimCity]] Societies however can be either idealistic or cynical. You could make a fun loving society where barely anything goes wrong or a crime ridden crapsack world which is run by oppressive dictators.

* ''[[Dragon Age]]'' attempts to be a [[Darker and Edgier]] take on classic fantasy settings like [[Dungeons and& Dragons]], but the Idealism sometimes shines through by allowing you to [[Earn Your Happy Ending]] in the way of being able to [[Take a Third Option]]. The player should be careful though if s/he attempts to do a [[Video Game Caring Potential|"Messiah Run"]] since not all choices that appear to be good at first also end up good in the epilogue, especially anything concerning the [[Gray and Gray Morality|dwarves]].

* ''[[Syphon Filter]]'' was never idealistic to begin with, but definitely got [[Darker and Edgier]] as the series progressed. The storyline combines the plots of ''[[The Bourne Series]]'' with ''[[Mission: Impossible]]'' with betrayal and being [[You Are Too Late|too late]] to save the day combined.

* ''[[BioshockBioShock (series)]]'' gives an interesting variation of this sliding scale that [[Karma Meter|the player himself decides if the story is idealistic or cynical]]. It has 3 endings in the first game and 4 in the second, all but one in each game are cynical, obtained by players who choose to commit the sin of harvesting even just one little sister; the only good ending in each of the two games is an idealistic one, earned by players who manage to remain pure-hearted protectors of the little sisters throughout the entire game.

* ''[[Valkyrie Profile]]'' is pretty much on the Cynical side of the coin, you are a Valkyrie who collects the souls of the dead to give to Odin who views them as pawns and the allies you recruit goes through rather dark storylines before their mortal misery is ended. [[Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume]] is no better as you are a jaded mortal servant driven by revenge.

{{quote| But this revelation is not one of " I am the strongest" but its implications , falling in line with the rest of the Armored Core series canon endings, are in themselves asking a question of the player. What does it mean to be the strongest? I'm standing at the top, alone. Was it worth it? Is this all life is worth? What have I really done?}}

* ''[[Blaz BlueBlazBlue]]'' is much more cynical than ''[[Guilty Gear]]'', especially if you are human girl. Expect plenty of [[Break the Cutie]] moments and also the general nature of the storyline as the main plot shows how badly broken some of them are by the end of that game.

** That's not how it's more cynical though. What makes it cynical is that whenever you want to be treated seriously, you had better drop whatever idealism you had. As of current, the one who had their optimism and idealism high are just Bang and Taokaka... and they're the story's [[Joke Character|Joke Characters]]s.<ref>Ironically, both of their seiyuu had previous roles in extremely cynical anime/games</ref>.

** ''[[Guilty Gear]]'' also tends to be rather cynical side as well, considering that the politics are just as screwed up at the ''[[Blaz BlueBlazBlue]]'' verse. And the cast are also mostly broken by things. The only thing that makes ''[[Blaz BlueBlazBlue]]'' seems more cynical is that the villains are [[Card-Carrying Villain|more open in their evilness]], and [[Sliding Scale of Villain Effectiveness|DAMN EFFECTIVE]] in what they do.

{{quote| '''Brotherhood Knight Scroll''': Where is this brother who is the supposed savior? Where is this warrior of light? More lies dreamt up by the Church to keep us subservient to their will, no doubt. How is it possible that God exists [[God Is Evil|when he allows the murder and killing of so many of our brethren]]?}}

** Amidst the horribly depressing atmosphere of the ''[[Metal Gear]]'' franchise, we have the idealistic [[Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots|Johnny "Akiba" Sasaki]], who is the only character not infested by the nanomachines and serves as a new hope for the purely cynical war-torn world.

* On the topic of [[Konami]] franchises, the ''[[Tokimeki Memorial]]'' series is at the far end of the idealistic side. This is a series with no villains (the only antagonists of sorts are the local [[Delinquents]], and they are portrayed as nice and [[Graceful Loser|Graceful Losers]]s [[Worthy Opponent|Worthy Opponents]]s), and where the [[Power of Love]] is so strong, it makes [[Long-Distance Relationship|Long Distance Relationships]] work without fail and help the rare depressive characters out of their [[Heroic BSOD]]. It's also a series where comedy and fun are kings alongside romance, where drama is scarcely used (and only to make hope and romance shine brighter and triumph in the end), and where any pairing that's strongly implied (notably the ones with the main heroine [[Childhood Friend Romance]]), is considered as good as canon.

* ''[[ConkersConker's Bad Fur Day]]'' shifts firmly to the cynical end of the scale after [[Rare]]'s previous idealistic games.

* Don't let the cute chibi characters in [[Dept. Heaven]] series fool you. The series is pretty much outright cynical from the get go.

* ''[[StarcraftStarCraft]]'' is firmly on the cynical side of the scale, particularly in the first game. Every known government in the game, from the United Earth Directorate to the Protoss Conclave is either totalitarian or ineffectual, sometimes both. While the ending of the first game is [[Bittersweet Ending]], the expansion throws this out the window, going for an outright [[Downer Ending]], with the zerg victorious, and nearly every good hearted character in the series dead or otherwise out of the fight. The first act of the second game is much more idealistic, but not nearly enough to make up for all that grimdark.

** In ''[[StarcraftStarCraft II]]'', Matt Horner is an idealist fighting Mengsk's government because it's the right thing to do. Almost everyone else is doing it for revenge. This is also essentially the mood for the cinematic A Better Tomorrow. After breaking open New Folsom prison, Matt Horner believes that their real victory was releasing everyone who ever spoke out against Mengsk. That the point of their revolution is to build [[Title Drop|a better tomorrow]]. Tosh scoffs at this and calls it naive; claiming that tyranny can only be succeeded by tyranny, and that one can only fight the present enemy. Raynor is in the middle, believing that Matt's better future will arrive; but those fighting out of hatred and revenge, like him and Tosh, will have no place in it.

* All of the main series ''[[Pokémon]]'' games are definitely on the idealism end of the scale -- howeverscale—however, the dynamic is played with in ''[[Pokémon Diamond and Pearl]]'', in which the [[Big Bad]] is [[Your Mileage May Vary|arguably]] [[Well-Intentioned Extremist|an extreme idealist]] himself. Instead of "[[Idealism vs. Cynicism]]", it's "Idealism A vs. Idealism B".

** Far more obvious in the newest pair, ''[[Pokémon Black and White]]''. The "King" of the obligatory villainous team this time around is an outright [[Anti-Villain]] who has spent his life under the belief that Trainers make Pokemon suffer by using them for their own purposes and forcing them to battle. He is set up as the direct counterpart to the main protagonist, and the game even states that one side fights for "truth" while the other fights for "ideals". In fact, the whole game is basically built around the moral that, in most situations, there IS no [[Black and White Morality|right/wrong]] and people should learn to accept each other despite their differences in ideas/beliefs, because that's what makes the world so diverse and creative. Not only that -- justthat—just in case it wasn't idealistic ENOUGH -- itENOUGH—it attaches [[An Aesop|another moral]] that, whatever your dream or vision for the world, you should strive to make it come true... and just by doing that you become [[The Hero]].