Super Smash Bros./Headscratchers: Difference between revisions

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* How does anyone see Game And Watch? He's clearly depicted as a 2D character, so shouldn't he appear as a nearly invisible straight line to all the fighters?

** If he's two dimensional, he would be seen from the same angle regardless of where you were standing.

** If you look at his trophy, you will see that those grey outlines around him have depth. Of course, the characters are still fighting just a grey line, but it's better than nothing.

** I'm a little confused how some of the attacks connect, especially with Link, who has attacks that are PERFECT vertical slashes. Oh, and how do they manage to grab him?

*** Since "Tabuu is The Master Hand's Mom" as mentioned in the WMG, that's a metaphor for forcing her son to put away his toys for the night.

*** Wasn't it Master Hand's Dad?

*** Actually, I was always under the impression that Master Hand ''is'', in fact, a character from a video game. For example, look at the menu screen of any other video game; you'll find that your pointer is often ''a white gloved hand''. This is the hand that ''controls every action some videogame characters make''. Buuuut, that's just my opinion...

*** Doesn't Master Hand make a reappearance as a boss in one of the Kirby games? I think you even got Kirby's Melee moveset for "copying" him.

*** But he was the only one who didn't play by the same rules as everyone else. (At least before Crazy and the Subspace boss types.) Everyone else was affected by gravity and was defeated by falling off the stage or into the distance. He floated at will and had limited health. This was ''odd''.

*** He made up the rules, so why should he follow them.

** My current theory is that MH and CH = [[Rayman]].

*** Mine is that they're the hands of [[Losing Your Head|Dr. Kawashima]].

*** No, I think they're based on [[The Legend of Zelda|Bongo Bongo]].

*** Master Hand is totally Glover from the old [[PS 1]]/N64 game 'Glover'.

*** It looks to me that the moves are based off of [[Kirby Super Star|Wham Bam Rock]].

** Here's a better question: what does Crazy Hand represent?

** He's a wizard. He probably has spells for understanding things.

*** He's also depicted as an intelligent man in general, and it isn't really known how long he's had to cook up his current plan before it was set into motion. He could have had plenty of time to learn.

* What makes no sense is after Lucas and the Pokemon Trainer beat Galleom, why couldn't the Trainer release his Charizard as they were falling to their doom? I'm sure Charizard is strong enough to carry two boys.

** Either he couldn't reach the pokeball grabbed like that, or he was unconscious.

*** The trainer looked pretty alive after he was grabbed and I think he could have gotten the ball after Lucas broke them free. If you meant Charizard, I don't see why it would be KO'd in the storyline since it was alive and kicking beforehand, and usually you can have all but one guy knocked out during the game and they magically come back in a cut scene.

*** Alternate explanation: He doesn't have the badge needed to use Fly outside of battle.

*** Makes sense: For the FR/LG fly, you need to beat Lt. Surge. All our plucky hero had was a Squirtle...

*** He wanted to fill his Pokedex, of course. The real question is: [[Comically Missing the Point|How do you capture wild Ivysaur and Charizard on the Pokémon games?]]

*** Mew glitch.

** Most likely, it was as much to keep Pikachu out of the way as it was to get a power source. He's proven himself a hero in the past, so he's as much a threat as any. Note that they seemed to be specifically targeting Pokemon- separating Trainer from his partners, aggravating Rayquaza, etc. Pikachu's kidnapping fits into the pattern.

*** It seemed more to me that Trainer was catching Ivysaur and Charizard for the first time. To fill out his Pokedex, presumably.

*** Pikachu can produce a great deal more power than anything they had, so they may have been using Pikachu to power the machines that were copying the Power Suit. Freeing Pikachu shut production down, which is why you didn't have to fight an entire horde of SA-X.

** The experiments looked like classic Space Pirate hijinx (namely, hurting others to benefit themselves). the pirates could have had a role similar to Bowser, or maybe one similar to Wario... in either case it seems they weren't popular enough for the game to bother clarifying.

* On that note, why doesn't Ganondorf use his sword? Y'know, the one that he pulls out in his taunt? Yeah. THAT one. Yeah, it makes for a decent joke on the dojo, but Sakurai, I would have much preferred it if you just let him use the freaking sword!

** Maybe it was a tier thing. They already have three sword users, one of which (Ike) is rather slow and heavy, so Ganondorf would be, as some say, "an Ike spoof" or vice-versa. Then again, it might simply be for consistency matters: he didn't use it on Melee either... And yes, I'd like to see Ganondorf using a sword. And actually ''turning into'' Ganon as Final Smash, by the way.

*** If he hits you. Anybody <s>with decent jumping skills</s> 'cept Bowser and Ganondorf can dodge it. There's a reason that he's currently bottom tier.

*** Except that Final Smashes play no part in the tier list due to being available from items.

** Without a Super Mushroom on hand, it takes all of his power to manage such a transformation by himself. He can't even move or lift his arms while doing it. Thus, its only purpose is to intimidate or impress. "Hey, you're that plumber guy who can become really big!"

*** It's just an old school taunt... if you notice, when he does that taunt, he stands -exactly- how he does in Super Mario Bros: head sideways, etc. Apparently, he can move while he does this too. Look closely in Melee and you'll notice his arms and fists shift slightly; in Brawl, it's the same, but he bends his knees slightly, too.

* What the hell were Ike and Marth doing after Meta Knight left them up until they all battled Tabuu?

** In the cutscene right before Mario's party arrive for the battle in the canyon, you can see them chumming up with Lucas and PT. Presumably, they didn't follow Meta Knight up the mountain because they figured him retaking the Halberd was something he's got to do himself. Alternatively, since Meta Knight can fly, and therefore scale the mountain faster then any of them, they assumed that by the time they climbed the mountain, let alone reach the Halberd, the battle would be over.

** They took the kiddos out for ice cream.

** Well, it's possible that they couldn't even climb the mountain. MK could only do it because he has wings.

*** Indeed, they aren't Berserkers. Nor Brigands. And even then they'd go rather slowly.

**** Look on Wolf's back. He's wearing the jetpack from ''Assault''.

*** You realize everyone can double jump already, right?

*** Because his hands and feet move so fast they set on fire? Just throwing that out there.

*** It's because it's Captain Falcon. You don't argue with the goddamn falcon.

** From the angle Mario was coming at, he couldn't have extended his hand in time to touch the trophy's base, he just would've punched it and hurt his hand.

* As someone who rather frequently plays oldschool platformers, I find it very strange that Mario, Luigi, and Sonic don't seem to have any attacks capable of knocking people out of the arena by stomping on their heads or performing a spin attack. Even worse, Mario and Luigi have attacks that hurt the enemy by jumping ''up'' towards them. Try doing that to a goomba in the original Super Mario Brothers.

*** Not really, considering it does no daamge except to Goombas and Koopas in Subspace Emisary.

*** What about their down aerials? Luigi's is a stomp, and Mario's was until Brawl. Also, some of Sonic's spin moves are KO worthy. His up and down smashes come to mind.

*** Simple explanation. Smash Bros debuted when Super Mario 64 came out, so they're going to focus on moves from that rather than Super Mario Bros. The same thing with Sonic, only it's a last ditch attempt to make Next-Gen look like a decent game by putting in Silver and Blaze trophies.

** In the days where 8 and 16 bits rule and 32 and 3d were just a dream, items stand up for identification (I'd like to imagine how players of Donkey Kong will know the works of that Hammer if it looks like it's lying down). SSB just runs at this rule for nostalgic reason.

** [[A Wizard Did It|The same magic that allows big items to fit inside tiny capsules places them upright]].

** As to the swords: They ''are'' blunt, you wouldn't want to give a kid a bunch of toys with razor-edged swords, and even if they were sharp enough to rip into a kid's hand, the edge of the blade would increase in bluntness as the size of the characters decreased. With regards to the lightsabers, that's just proof that SSB's framing device takes place [[Futurama|1000 years in the future]]. Or the kid has [[Star Wars]] toys, which usually go for a translucent plastic blade that looks kind of glowy when brightly lit.

** Slapstick cartoon violence. Same reason Grand Theft Auto couldn't get away with slamming an 8-year-old with a baseball bat, but these games do.

** Well, in Stadium 1, they could get different colors from what nickname they have...

** The reddish Pikachu is a shiny Pikachu with Red's original hat on. Some of the Pokemon are in shiny form too, and all of Red's costumes come from different game characters.

** [[Rule of Cute]] covers Pikachu and Jiggs, at least.

*** Because they were too lazy to add them... Y'know, had they added them they would have as many colors as a regular character, so why they didn't think of that? Certainly less effort than giving Wario 12 costumes.

* How come Lucas and Ness can't use their signature moves? Why can't they use PK Rockin and PK Love?

** Lucas's Smash-A-UP move IS PK LOVE. D: He even uses PK LOVE as a victory pose.

** Isn't he pulling one of the needles from Mother 3 in that victory pose though?

* This is about a trophy in Melee. Why is Misty from ''[[Pokémon]]'' in her anime costume? This is based off the games. Her anime and game costumes have always been completely different. There was one game based off the anime, but it was never released in Japan, since it was a hack of an already [[Puyo Puyo|Japanese]] game.

* Why is Ganondorf, one of the most powerful and unique villains in the series, nothing more than a Captain Falcon clone in Smash Bros.? If they needed a slower Captain Falcon that badly, they should've used Black Shadow or something. For that matter, why is Wolf suddenly so much more feral?

** Ganondorf was a clone in Melee because he wasn't originally going to be in the game and was only put in once they decided to make clones. He's still a clone in Brawl for a variety of reasons--Ganondorf was staying, but they didn't have anyone to give the moveset to (another F-Zero character clearly wasn't in the plans) and didn't want to openly taunt Ganondorf fans from Melee by including the character and not the moveset, so...

*** In the trophy descriptions?

*** Yes.

*** He used it. Long ago. He was a hobo. Okay, this is not [[Wild Mass Guessing]], moving on.

* OK, why was there no confrontation between ROB and Ganondorf near the end of Subspace Emissary? Ganondorf ''murdered all of ROB's friends/subjects, laughing his ass off all the while!'' How could ROB ''not'' confront Ganondorf when they teamed up?

** Cause Ganondorf is friggin' ''scary''.

* How come they didn't use some very obvious palette swaps? Ones that come to mind:

** Ike's PoR Lord outfit

*** I'm ''still'' waiting on a maskless Meta Knight option for Kirby.

** Heck, they could have at least made Dr. Mario a palette swap for Mario.

* This HUGELY bugs me: Why, why, why, why is Goldeen useless? For three games now, they [[Did Not Do the Research]] to figure out that ''Magikarp'' is the useless Pokemon who just splashes around... and Goldeen is actually quite powerful? Especially if you, say, ''drop it in the water''??

** But there's no fighting in the water in Smash Bros. The only levels which have water are either too shallow or you can barely stay there, plus throwing the pokéball in water doesn't work. The joke is derived from the anime, where Goldeen was the prime example of why not to use a fish pokemon on land.

** Also, how odd it is to claim that they [[Did Not Do the Research]] on a game of their own company? O_o

*** And it should have been a Magikarp then, too.

** Goldeen ISN'T useless, at least not in Melee. While you have to be extremely lucky to pull it off, getting an enemy hit with Goldeen's horn is a 1HKO, no matter what.

*** He was the leader of a group of soldiers bent on destroying Dream Land with a giant ship that doubled as a massive weapon. How is that not more evil than Dedede who just stole Dream Land's entire food supply at worst?

*** That's the [[American Kirby Is Hardcore|American version]] of "Revenge of Meta Knight". The Japanese version has Meta Knight wanting to end Pop Star's lazy ways and get everyone motivated to do stuff. Kirby does not agree with not being lazy and fights him.

*** Wait, so, in order to be lazy, ''Kirby takes out an army''?

*** He went through ''Squeak Squad / Mouse Attack'' to get his cake back, so...

* Why doesn't Lucario's Extreme Speed do any damage? It does damage in the Pokemon games. Even worse that Pikachu's Quick Attack can at least do SOME damage...

*** That wouldn't work out at all, Samus is only 90 pounds (200 with her [[Powered Armor]]) so trying to determine her gender let alone race by her weight distribution alone would be much harder then it normally would. That being said her so called "talent" does lend to a rather feminine shape to the armor, well in Brawl anyway.

*** Samus is only 90 pounds? '''Bullshit'''. If she was 90 lbs and over 6 feet tall, she would look like a stick.

** I think it's a matter of capturing the atmosphere of each series while putting just enough detail to make you smile. [[Americans Hate Tingle|And we all know NCL doesn't give a crap about Metroid.]] Also, what do you mean New Pork City looks "nothing like [it] did in the games?" It looks EXACTLY like it did in the games (aside from the rocket propulsion thing), [[Sprite Polygon Mix|to the point of being ridiculous.]]

* Why does Marth have dialogue like "There's no way I can lose" and "Everyone look at me"? In [[Fire Emblem Akaneia|his games]] he's characterized as an [[Incorruptible Pure Pureness|almost disgustingly nice]] [[The Messiah|Messiah]] type who never acts condescending and he is often unsure of himself.

** Because both her and Sheik's teleport moves are blocked by terrain. The walls of the cage would have stopped her anyway.

** She doesn't transform into Sheik because if she did, ''[[Clark Kenting|everyone would know her secret identity!]]''

** You mean Little ''Mac''? My best guess is because he'd have such a limited moveset, since boxers by definition can only punch. It's not like R.O.B. or Captain Falcon, where the developers can just make new moves up.

*** Yeah, that's true. With characters like Pit, you can hand him new weapons, but it wouldn't make sense to suddenly give a regular 'ol boxer a sword or a laser gun or flaming fists.

** They've been trying to get Pit into the Smash Bros. games for years, but for the past few games, they were having problems animating the wings. They weren't really able to do it until this one.

* Look at the pictures of Ridley and Meta Ridley on the character page. Why did Ridley lose a finger on each hand during the augmentation process?

* In The Subspace Emissary, something about two particular levels bugs me: The opening Mario VS Kirby fight, and the Meta Knight VS Lucario battle later on. You can play as either character and fight the other, which is a good idea and all, but here's what bugs me: if you lose, you get a Game Over, when really, shouldn't it have instead triggered the cutscene for the other character winning and just continue? Plot-wise it makes no sense, and when playing on Intense Difficulty it'd be a nice relief in case you lose.

*** In addition to the above, it's probably also so the player doesn't get lazy and... well... stop fighting.

* What's with Zelda's victory animation? She looks so moody or depressed. Is she supposed to be lost in thought or something? Unlike the Sheik pose, it doesn't come off as so.

** Gameplay factor. You're not in the same "dimension" as the bomb. Therefore, it has no effect.

* Why does Crazy Hand's trophy appear under the Subspace Emissary category in the trophy collection when Crazy Hand never even appeared in that mode and clearly had no role in it's story?

* Something about Snake's codec conversations has always bugged me. He's aware of who Mario and Luigi are, but not Princess Peach or Bowser?

* Does anyone else think that Ivysaur's appearance/capture was just poorly written. He's just a trophy standing in the middle of a hallway for no reason. At least Charizard had been seen before and was then battled..

** I just assumed that Ivysaur challenged Charizard, who beat him and continued, leaving Ivy a statue.

* How come the Pokemon Anime Theme isn't available for the Pokemon Stadium 2 stage, even though most people know it more than the Pokemon Game's main theme? Just doesn't make much sense.

** Well, Sakurai's main rule for Brawl was no characters from Mangas, Animes, Comics. It all had to be from a video game initially.(R.O.B. was a special exception) This could easily have applied to music. So Video Game Music was in, while Anime music was out.

**** PT is not Ash; he has a different appearance, different voice and different mannerisms. What's odd is that PT's voice, Michele Knotz, does voices for the anime, but hasn't voiced any notable male trainers. (She was May and is still Jessie and Joy, at least.)

** They already needed to get the go-ahead and music from Game Freak and bring the new anime voice cast to reprise the Pokemon voices. Getting 4Kids involved as well wouldn't have been worth the effort. (Also, isn't it more likely that we'd end up with the ''Japanese'' opening theme? And on that subject, you know there have been at least thirteen "Pokemon Anime Themes" in the US alone, right?)

*** One: Whoever was the the poster of "PT is not Ash", I would like to inform you that I never said that. I said his voice is '''BASED''' on Ash, '''NOT''' ''is''.

**** But he's ''not''. He is based on the Pokemon trainers that are found in the games themselves, and there is nothing about his portrayal (aside from the use of all three starters, which is also true for a few random trainers and Red as he appears in Gold/Silver) that implies that he draws more influence from the anime's portrayal of Ash than the game's character designs.

**** Except that this was made by Japanese game designers, who don't really care about the songs that their properties' anime adaptations receive in the US. Even given the Warioware examples (and Pikmin, for that matter), the songs were pulled from the game itself (note the lack of a song from even the ''Japanese'' release of an anime based on any of their franchises), and since the tunes weren't actually changed in the dub process, they were able to use the same backing arrangement and just get two different voice casts to sing each work. Granted, a counterexample to the "same tune" argument exists in the game's use of "Sonic Boom" from ''Sonic CD'', but even that song came from the game.

*** Three: In Melee, Misty's trophy shows here in her '''anime''' clothes. Wouldn't they need to ask 4Kids for that?

**** To clarify the answer better, they would prefer to use game stuff in a game. Music, Characters, etc. Likewise, the no Anime thing was specific to ''Brawl'', not Melee or 64. That's why the Misty argument doesn't apply here. However, Pokemon Trainer doesn't use a voice in-game. So they went with an actor who voices a character similar to Red/Pokemon Trainer, and that's all. Another thing about the music is that they were using music that would be in all versions of the game, so using ones specific to Japan or America has little sense to it(besides not being video game music). Of course, in the case of using English or Japanese songs(or other languages), they just included it in all versions anyway. Also, the original Pokemon Themes for season 1 are very, ''very'' old, and really don't have a reason to be in this game. Especially when they have nothing to do with the games either.

***** A couple of things: 4kids is not a problem since it's even [http://i56.tinypic.com/2wgy6bk.png credited for the Pokemon voices in SSB64]. Second, anime content is used in Smash even from other games, like the origin of the name [[Kirby Right Back At Ya|Galaxia]].

** [[Dummied Out|There were Kirby enemies planned]], actually.

*** It doesn't mention it on Smash Wiki's beta elements page.

** Would have been nice to see some of the Space Pirates from [[Metroid]] too.

** [[Irony]]

** What's worse is that Kirby is voiced by the same woman who voices Ness, and Kirby with a Ness hat can say "PK Flash" perfectly!

* Am I the only one who hasn't noticed a difference between Melee and Brawl!? I mean, I only found out here on [[This Wiki]] that there are (apparently) differences in Melee and Brawl's gameplay. I've played Melee and Brawl to death, and haven't noticed a difference. [[Fan Dumb|There's all those people]] who dis Brawl because it it somehow "Casual" compared to Melee, which apparently has more strategy. Erm, How? Even the creator said [[Creator Backlash|he regrets aiming Melee towards tournament players]]. How is there a difference!?!

** While I haven't actually played Melee (nor am I ''anywhere near'' the level to play either game competitively), my research indicates that [http://www.ssbwiki.com/Falling_speed gravity] and [http://www.ssbwiki.com/Hitstun hit-stun] is higher in Melee than in Brawl. Plus, the simplified [http://www.ssbwiki.com/Air_dodge Air Dodge] implemented in Brawl eliminates the possibility of advanced techniques such as [http://www.ssbwiki.com/Wavedash Wave-dashing] and [[Lag Cancel|L-]][http://www.ssbwiki.com/L-canceling Canceling]. These differences result in Melee having more fast-paced, combo-oriented game-play that can alienate younger gamers from the competitive scene, while Brawl has slower, more defensively-oriented game-play that, while easier to pick up, tends to alienate gamers who are used to Melee's competitive meta-game. Of course, there will always be people who can pick up Melee's style of game-play and comboing with ease, as well as people who can preform incredible combos in Brawl. However, I doubt that these differences are all that apparent in 1-Player modes and matches against a CPU. You are more likely to see this in the online meta-game, Although it is easy to notice that [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEz1Q7DpOU0 the ledges in Brawl are easier to grab] than the ledges in Melee. The comments in [http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2010/12/there_may_never_be_another_smash_bros_as_hardcore_as_melee this post] have a plethora of interesting opinions on this whole debacle. If there was a way to combine accessibility with combo-ability, that would be great, even though it probably would not stop the [[Unpleasable Fanbase]] from throwing a fit.

** They were about to fight an entity that OHKO'ed all of the heroes in one fell swoop before, and who Ganondorf clearly antagonizes (at the moment they find him), seeing how he's trophyfied. An entity who completely overpowered the Master Hand, which seems to be the closest thing to a god in the Smash Bros. canon (even if a malevolent one). Yes, they needed all help they could find, that was an [[Enemy Mine]] situation if there ever was any.

* This is a very minor pet-peeve but why isn't there a badge on Pikachu's hat? The one that's based off Red's hat.

** Based on Red's, not actually Red's.

* Pikachu is wearing Brendan's ''headband'' however it's been confirmed that that is a knit-hat. What gives? The series is typically quite game-accurate to a T.

** Pikachu is wearing a replica meant to invoke memories of Brendan. Their heads are not the same size.

 

[[Category:Games/Headscratchers]]

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