Tautological Templar: Difference between revisions

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{{trope}}
{{trope}}
{{quote|''"Oh, we usually murder our way to the top and claim victory whilst astride a pile of mangled bodies. But we're heroes so it's okay when '''we''' do that."''|'''Fighter''', ''[[8-Bit Theater (Webcomic)|Eight Bit Theater]]''}}
{{quote|''"Oh, we usually murder our way to the top and claim victory whilst astride a pile of mangled bodies. But we're heroes so it's okay when '''we''' do that."''|'''Fighter''', ''[[8-Bit Theater|Eight Bit Theater]]''}}


Considering all the [[Kick the Dog|puppy-kicking]] the [[Knight Templar]] gets into, sooner or later another good character is going to get the courage to ask her something. Considering how [[Evil Is Petty|petty and mean]] she acts, often toward people who have only committed minor crimes, how can she really be a "good" character?
Considering all the [[Kick the Dog|puppy-kicking]] the [[Knight Templar]] gets into, sooner or later another good character is going to get the courage to ask her something. Considering how [[Evil Is Petty|petty and mean]] she acts, often toward people who have only committed minor crimes, how can she really be a "good" character?
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This character may look like a [[Hypocrite]] (She probably is, but she's too stupid, self-righteous, deluded, or willfully ignorant to understand it) but in reality she's far more dangerous than that. Because she can't comprehend the concept of [[Moral Dissonance]], she will throw herself into any struggle with the same force, conviction, and resolve that [[The Hero]] shows against the [[Big Bad]]. That's because in her worldview, every enemy she has is twirling a handlebar moustache, madly cackling while tying orphans to the railroad tracks -- [[You Rebel Scum|even if said enemy turns out to be]] [[The Hero]] himself.
This character may look like a [[Hypocrite]] (She probably is, but she's too stupid, self-righteous, deluded, or willfully ignorant to understand it) but in reality she's far more dangerous than that. Because she can't comprehend the concept of [[Moral Dissonance]], she will throw herself into any struggle with the same force, conviction, and resolve that [[The Hero]] shows against the [[Big Bad]]. That's because in her worldview, every enemy she has is twirling a handlebar moustache, madly cackling while tying orphans to the railroad tracks -- [[You Rebel Scum|even if said enemy turns out to be]] [[The Hero]] himself.


Can often come about unintentionally as a result of a [[Designated Hero]], most often when a writer is trying to rationalize the character's action but is having trouble doing so. A [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]] may also be one of these provided she's genuinely oblivious to the suffering she's caused in the name of the greater good.
Can often come about unintentionally as a result of a [[Designated Hero]], most often when a writer is trying to rationalize the character's action but is having trouble doing so. A [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]] may also be one of these provided she's genuinely oblivious to the suffering she's caused in the name of the greater good.


In general, if you feel inclined to put on a page [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]]: ''thinks'' he is this, then you are probably dealing with this trope.
In general, if you feel inclined to put on a page [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]]: ''thinks'' he is this, then you are probably dealing with this trope.


Sometimes related to [[What Is Evil?]], Often that people don't think themselves as evil, but following the true way. Like one man's rebel is another man's savior. This credo in general is also known as cognitive dissonance.
Sometimes related to [[What Is Evil?]], Often that people don't think themselves as evil, but following the true way. Like one man's rebel is another man's savior. This credo in general is also known as cognitive dissonance.


A form of [[It's All About Me]] mixed with [[Never My Fault]]. Such characters are also prone to [[Believing Their Own Lies]]. If the [[Designated Hero]] is called out for acting this way it's [[What the Hell, Hero?]] See also [[Super Dickery]], [[For Great Justice]]!, and [[Ron the Death Eater]] for when the hero really is a hero but fans see him this way.
A form of [[It's All About Me]] mixed with [[Never My Fault]]. Such characters are also prone to [[Believing Their Own Lies]]. If the [[Designated Hero]] is called out for acting this way it's [[What the Hell, Hero?]] See also [[Super Dickery]], [[For Great Justice]]!, and [[Ron the Death Eater]] for when the hero really is a hero but fans see him this way.
If a character comes across this way despite the author's intentions, you might have a case of [[Protagonist-Centered Morality]].
If a character comes across this way despite the author's intentions, you might have a case of [[Protagonist-Centered Morality]].


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* [[Depending on the Writer]], [[Judge Dredd]] is aware that sometimes strict adherence to the letter of the law results in injustice; whether he accepts it as [[I Did What I Had to Do]] or exercises [[Loophole Abuse]] varies. There have been other Judges every so often who actually believed, "Because I'm a Judge, everything I do is right/legal."
* [[Depending on the Writer]], [[Judge Dredd]] is aware that sometimes strict adherence to the letter of the law results in injustice; whether he accepts it as [[I Did What I Had to Do]] or exercises [[Loophole Abuse]] varies. There have been other Judges every so often who actually believed, "Because I'm a Judge, everything I do is right/legal."
* In ''[[Spider-Man]]'' Venom believes that he's the good guy and anything he does to Spider-man is justified because he "ruined his life." The fact that Spider-man [[Unknown Rival|hadn't even met the man before he got his powers]] does nothing to dissuade this view.
* In ''[[Spider-Man]]'' Venom believes that he's the good guy and anything he does to Spider-man is justified because he "ruined his life." The fact that Spider-man [[Unknown Rival|hadn't even met the man before he got his powers]] does nothing to dissuade this view.
* [[Lex Luthor]] sometimes has this attitude with [[Superman]], especially evident in ''[[Lex Luthor: Man of Steel]]''. He justifies his crusade to bring down the hero by proclaiming that Superman, as a godlike alien, is a menace to humanity who impedes our progress by dint of our existence, and more crudely that Luthor is capable of solving all the Earth's problems but he can't until Superman is dead, and to be more accurate dead at his hands. Doesn't seem to have any problem teaming up with ''other'' aliens like [[Brainiac]] mind, even if those aliens really are out to enslave us all and make no secret of the fact. His supposed belief in the potential and value of humanity also doesn't seem to stop him from planning atrocities which, in attempting to destroy or 'expose' Superman, usually ratchet up a pretty hefty body count in human life in the process.
* [[Lex Luthor]] sometimes has this attitude with [[Superman]], especially evident in ''[[Lex Luthor: Man of Steel]]''. He justifies his crusade to bring down the hero by proclaiming that Superman, as a godlike alien, is a menace to humanity who impedes our progress by dint of our existence, and more crudely that Luthor is capable of solving all the Earth's problems but he can't until Superman is dead, and to be more accurate dead at his hands. Doesn't seem to have any problem teaming up with ''other'' aliens like [[Brainiac]] mind, even if those aliens really are out to enslave us all and make no secret of the fact. His supposed belief in the potential and value of humanity also doesn't seem to stop him from planning atrocities which, in attempting to destroy or 'expose' Superman, usually ratchet up a pretty hefty body count in human life in the process.
* [[Norman Osborn]] fell into this territory in ''[[Dark Reign (comics)|Dark Reign]]'', insisting that all of his actions were for the greater good and the heroes shouldn't be uniting against him and have no idea how much he has been doing to protect everyone. The fact that he started it by trying to kill all the heroes in the first place, that he tried to [[Offing the Offspring|murder his own son for ratings]], thats he's been [[Police State|killing or locking up everyone who has a bad thing to say about him]], that his own superhero teams [[Evil Counterpart|comprised of supervillains]] he was allowing (and often ordering) to commit all sorts of murders and atrocities, and that the crisis in question he was referring to ([[The Sentry]] turning back into [[Super-Powered Evil Side|The Void]]) was all his fault in the first place, or the fact that his ''own'' [[Super-Powered Evil Side]] was slowly taking over and he was starting to lose his mind and covering up the fact...Yeah, none of that really mattered.
* [[Norman Osborn]] fell into this territory in ''[[Dark Reign (comics)|Dark Reign]]'', insisting that all of his actions were for the greater good and the heroes shouldn't be uniting against him and have no idea how much he has been doing to protect everyone. The fact that he started it by trying to kill all the heroes in the first place, that he tried to [[Offing the Offspring|murder his own son for ratings]], thats he's been [[Police State|killing or locking up everyone who has a bad thing to say about him]], that his own superhero teams [[Evil Counterpart|comprised of supervillains]] he was allowing (and often ordering) to commit all sorts of murders and atrocities, and that the crisis in question he was referring to ([[The Sentry]] turning back into [[Super-Powered Evil Side|The Void]]) was all his fault in the first place, or the fact that his ''own'' [[Super-Powered Evil Side]] was slowly taking over and he was starting to lose his mind and covering up the fact...Yeah, none of that really mattered.


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== [[Live Action TV]] ==
== [[Live Action TV]] ==
* [[Stephen Colbert]] [[The Colbert Report|the character]] is this trope [[Played for Laughs]]. "[[Memetic Mutation|Great X or the Greatest X?]]"
* [[Stephen Colbert]] [[The Colbert Report|the character]] is this trope [[Played for Laughs]]. "[[Memetic Mutation|Great X or the Greatest X?]]"




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* The Pope from ''[[Tales of Symphonia]]'' believes that all half elves deserve to be executed or be slaves because he's The Pope, he never gives any further explanation than he's the Pope, he doesn't even care that The Chosen, a centerpoint of the religion, disagrees, because HE'S RIGHT. Essentially he bases his racism entirely on being The Pope. {{spoiler|Hell, his DAUGHTER is a half elf and that didn't stop him from putting her in a chamber because that's just how things are!}}
* The Pope from ''[[Tales of Symphonia]]'' believes that all half elves deserve to be executed or be slaves because he's The Pope, he never gives any further explanation than he's the Pope, he doesn't even care that The Chosen, a centerpoint of the religion, disagrees, because HE'S RIGHT. Essentially he bases his racism entirely on being The Pope. {{spoiler|Hell, his DAUGHTER is a half elf and that didn't stop him from putting her in a chamber because that's just how things are!}}
** {{spoiler|His daughter}} IS the reason he hates half-elves. He started out on the half-elves side until {{spoiler|his daughter was born}}, and after {{spoiler|she grew up, then stopped aging}} he "realized" how different half-elves really were from humans, and it terrified him. [[Fantastic Racism|Xenophobia]] at it's worst.
** {{spoiler|His daughter}} IS the reason he hates half-elves. He started out on the half-elves side until {{spoiler|his daughter was born}}, and after {{spoiler|she grew up, then stopped aging}} he "realized" how different half-elves really were from humans, and it terrified him. [[Fantastic Racism|Xenophobia]] at it's worst.
* ''[[Bioshock]]'': Sofia Lamb just wants [[Evilutionary Biologist|to push mankind into its next evolutionary stage]]. [[Utopia Justifies the Means|It's for the Greater Good]], and [[What Do You Mean It's Not Heinous?|nothing could be more evil than trying to stop this noble goal]]. {{spoiler|[[Catch Phrase|Ask yourself]]: are [[After the End|Rapture]], [[The Evils of Free Will|human consciousness]], [[Assimilation Plot|individuality itself]] and [[Offing the Offspring|Eleanor's mind]] ''really'' such high prices to pay for paradise?}}
* ''[[Bioshock]]'': Sofia Lamb just wants [[Evilutionary Biologist|to push mankind into its next evolutionary stage]]. [[Utopia Justifies the Means|It's for the Greater Good]], and [[What Do You Mean It's Not Heinous?|nothing could be more evil than trying to stop this noble goal]]. {{spoiler|[[Catch Phrase|Ask yourself]]: are [[After the End|Rapture]], [[The Evils of Free Will|human consciousness]], [[Assimilation Plot|individuality itself]] and [[Offing the Offspring|Eleanor's mind]] ''really'' such high prices to pay for paradise?}}




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== Western Animation ==
== Western Animation ==
* Stan Smith from ''[[American Dad]]!'' is always confident that his way (which is often shockingly bigoted, even by his own family's standards) is the good, righteous and just way, by simple virtue of being ''his'' way. He often comes around by the end of an episode, but the show actually lampshades how [[Aesop Amnesia|the lesson never sticks]]. As a gung-ho CIA agent, he also feels this way about [[Eagle Land|the United States]] itself - he doesn't believe that America can do no wrong so much as he believes that anything it does is justified by being America.
* Stan Smith from ''[[American Dad]]!'' is always confident that his way (which is often shockingly bigoted, even by his own family's standards) is the good, righteous and just way, by simple virtue of being ''his'' way. He often comes around by the end of an episode, but the show actually lampshades how [[Aesop Amnesia|the lesson never sticks]]. As a gung-ho CIA agent, he also feels this way about [[Eagle Land|the United States]] itself - he doesn't believe that America can do no wrong so much as he believes that anything it does is justified by being America.
** Although ironically, despite his [[Aesop Amnesia]], Stan ''has'' undergone more [[Character Development]] (along with [[Characterization Marches On]]) than anyone else on the show; in later seasons this aspect of his character is less habitual and more a series of [[Compressed Vice|Compressed Vices]].
** Although ironically, despite his [[Aesop Amnesia]], Stan ''has'' undergone more [[Character Development]] (along with [[Characterization Marches On]]) than anyone else on the show; in later seasons this aspect of his character is less habitual and more a series of [[Compressed Vice|Compressed Vices]].
* In one ''[[South Park]]'' two-parter, [[The Sociopath|Eric]] [[Fat Bastard|Cartman]], in the guise of his "superhero" [[Secret Identity]] The Coon, manipulated Cthulu (yes, [[H.P. Lovecraft|that Cthulu]]) into working for him and used it to kill and destroy everyone and everything he didn't like (and then got mad when Cthulu was getting all the media credit), justifying it by saying that he was making the world a better place. When Kenny, {{spoiler|as the superhero Mysterion}}, confronts him and angrily tells him that he's only making a better world for himself, Cartman simply and in all honesty just says "[[Evil Cannot Comprehend Good|Yes, thats what heroes do]]", and didn't really get Kenny's point. He seriously thought Kenny and the other boys were only trying to stop him out of jealously.
* In one ''[[South Park]]'' two-parter, [[The Sociopath|Eric]] [[Fat Bastard|Cartman]], in the guise of his "superhero" [[Secret Identity]] The Coon, manipulated Cthulu (yes, [[H.P. Lovecraft|that Cthulu]]) into working for him and used it to kill and destroy everyone and everything he didn't like (and then got mad when Cthulu was getting all the media credit), justifying it by saying that he was making the world a better place. When Kenny, {{spoiler|as the superhero Mysterion}}, confronts him and angrily tells him that he's only making a better world for himself, Cartman simply and in all honesty just says "[[Evil Cannot Comprehend Good|Yes, thats what heroes do]]", and didn't really get Kenny's point. He seriously thought Kenny and the other boys were only trying to stop him out of jealously.
* Demona from ''[[Gargoyles]]'' wants to [[Kill All Humans]] because she blames them for enslaving and wiping out her species, specifically the eponymous clan she used to belong to, and for all the persecution she personally has suffered. ''All of that'' was [[Never My Fault|entirely her fault]], though it transpires that there actually are other Gargoyles in hiding around the world anyway. In truth, Demona [[Fantastic Racism|has always hated humans]], deeming them inferior and resenting how her clan was serving them (when in fact it was much more like a mutually beneficial alliance), and her poorly thought-out plan to "free" them is what got most of them killed in the first place. Her problems stem from a serious case of [[Moral Myopia]] combined with [[Evil Cannot Comprehend Good]], and she can't (or rather, refuses to) fathom why her old clan keeps trying to defeat her.
* Demona from ''[[Gargoyles]]'' wants to [[Kill All Humans]] because she blames them for enslaving and wiping out her species, specifically the eponymous clan she used to belong to, and for all the persecution she personally has suffered. ''All of that'' was [[Never My Fault|entirely her fault]], though it transpires that there actually are other Gargoyles in hiding around the world anyway. In truth, Demona [[Fantastic Racism|has always hated humans]], deeming them inferior and resenting how her clan was serving them (when in fact it was much more like a mutually beneficial alliance), and her poorly thought-out plan to "free" them is what got most of them killed in the first place. Her problems stem from a serious case of [[Moral Myopia]] combined with [[Evil Cannot Comprehend Good]], and she can't (or rather, refuses to) fathom why her old clan keeps trying to defeat her.




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** That script ''specifically'' is more a self-assumed (by the president) case of [[To Be Lawful or Good]], since ''illegal'' doesn't necessarily mean ''evil''.
** That script ''specifically'' is more a self-assumed (by the president) case of [[To Be Lawful or Good]], since ''illegal'' doesn't necessarily mean ''evil''.
** Signing Statements are a key mechanic that allows this. Bills passed by Congress must be signed into law by the President (or have his/her veto overridden), and it's common to add a statement describing what the President considers the law to mean and how it will be implemented. Congress often passes extremely vague laws, so clarification from the executive is useful... but recent Presidents have begun to take rather ''unusual'' views of what laws mean and how they should be implemented. Like that laws don't affect members of the Executive Branch when they don't want them to. Nowadays this happens depressingly often.
** Signing Statements are a key mechanic that allows this. Bills passed by Congress must be signed into law by the President (or have his/her veto overridden), and it's common to add a statement describing what the President considers the law to mean and how it will be implemented. Congress often passes extremely vague laws, so clarification from the executive is useful... but recent Presidents have begun to take rather ''unusual'' views of what laws mean and how they should be implemented. Like that laws don't affect members of the Executive Branch when they don't want them to. Nowadays this happens depressingly often.
* The ''[[Malleus Maleficarum]]'' uses such "[[Insane Troll Logic|reasoning]]" as a proof that the witches do actually fly on broomsticks and cast evil spells, rather then it happens in their imagination, as per some more reasonable claims. It goes like this: "If they didn't do those things in reality, there'd be no reasons for us to burn them. But we couldn't possibly be wrong on this accord, hence they do fly on broomsticks in reality. [[Burn the Witch]]!"
* The ''[[Malleus Maleficarum]]'' uses such "[[Insane Troll Logic|reasoning]]" as a proof that the witches do actually fly on broomsticks and cast evil spells, rather then it happens in their imagination, as per some more reasonable claims. It goes like this: "If they didn't do those things in reality, there'd be no reasons for us to burn them. But we couldn't possibly be wrong on this accord, hence they do fly on broomsticks in reality. [[Burn the Witch]]!"
* [[My Country, Right or Wrong]] sometimes leads to this: acts by 'our' country and/or its friends are condoned, even encouraged, when the exact same actions done by 'them' or their allies get roundly condemned. [[Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement|Let's not get too specific about examples]].
* [[My Country, Right or Wrong]] sometimes leads to this: acts by 'our' country and/or its friends are condoned, even encouraged, when the exact same actions done by 'them' or their allies get roundly condemned. [[Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement|Let's not get too specific about examples]].