The Nightmare Before Christmas/Headscratchers: Difference between revisions

*** Though if that was the case, then the citizens of Halloweentown shouldn't have reacted the way they did when Santa made it snow. They said stuff like, What's this, why it's completely new! Must be a Christmas thing!" and such. So unless Jack's the only one who ever leaves Halloweentown, then that still doesn't make sense (and before someone says that Jack is the only one to leave Halloweentown, then who did the vampires drink the blood of in order to get the award? I know it's just a small part of the movie, but it's a part of it).

**** Well, it's possible that Halloweentown citizens only go to the real world on Halloween (and the vampires could be living on animal and/or other citizens' blood or something like that) and it never snowed when they went. Jack could have heard the elves talk about the snow, and since he didn't, presumably, bring any snow back with him, it's possible that either Jack didn't tell the citizens about snow, or he did and they forgot about it.

* In the ending track of the official soundtrack, Santa narrates about a visit he paid to Halloween Town several years after the events of the movie. This, in itself, is fine and dandy. But the thing that bugs me is that it is explicitly stated that Jack and Sally have kids. "Five skeleton children", if I recall correctly. If Jack is supposed to merely be a (poorly-proportioned) human skeleton, then he should not be in possession of a baculum (penis bone), and I would ''sincerely'' hope, for the sake of my childhood, that Sally isn't ''that'' kind of doll. So, I ask you, how, exactly, do a skeleton and a rag doll, neither in possession of genitalia, procreate? Did the zombie stork deliver them? Were they found under pumpkin leaves? Were they assembled from the corpses of normal dead children?

** Jack popped a [[Incredibly Lame Pun|boner]].

*** That sounds like an awesome theory, not to mention good material for [[Fanfic]] in the right hands . . . except Jack refers to himself as being dead in "Jack's Lament". If he was a vague fantasy being, why would he do that?

**** Because when he mentions that he's dead, he's talking about scaring people and being in character. He represents a skeleton, so, by assumption of his victim, a dead person.

*** In agreement with the above, it always seems odd that people don't question the fact that Jack has eyelids, a (forked) tongue, and fingers which can be pricked by Sally's sewing needle, but they insist on realism when it comes to the "how can Jack have kids?" question.

**** Nor do they question why Jack and Sally can walk, talk, sing, eat, can die, etc. Actually, it's pretty bizarre that out of the things to cry foul on, it's something from a cut-off poem.

** Plus, I don't care how "hung" you are, there's no competing with a guy who can remove his femur bone any time he wants. Sally's going to be one happy ragdoll thing, tell you what.

**** Everyone, everyone, we're talking about Jack Skellington, not [[The Late Late Show|Geoff Peterson]]! I think we can safely assume that Jack and Sally got their kids from an undead Halloween stork.

* Why did Lock, Shock, and Barrel tell the townsfolk that Jack is still alive and lead them to Oogie's lair? Even [[The Other Wiki]] notes how strange this is.

** Jack is a poor study; he is shown only giving cursory glances to his books.

* This it just bugs me is in relation to the whole "how-can-Jack-and-Sally-have-kids-when-they're-dead" thing. How come most of the fans, as far as I can tell, will accept the prequel and sequel games as canon when neither Henry Selick nor [[Tim Burton]] nor [[Danny Elfman]] had involvment with them, yet something on the soundtrack, which at least the words must come from the writers and/or [[Danny Elfman]], is contested? I know, [[You Fail Biology Forever|it's not possible for dead people to reproduce]], but neither is dead people walking, talking, singing, or having the need to eat, which Jack and Sally obviously does. Can't we say "[[MST3K Mantra|it's a fantasy]]" and move on?

*** The timeline isn't the problem. The problem is that fans are more likely to take games that aren't created by the original creators as canon over a cut-off poem that was.

* Sally gives Jack an, uh, "meal" or something to that amount to show her affection for him and Jack seems rather pleased with it. Presumably, this means that the concept of giving gifts them isn't completely alien to the residents of Halloween Town. So why is it so hard for them to understand what Christmas presents are?

** One would assume it involves getting completely and utterly shitfaced drunk on a regular basis.

*** So it's just Dublin, then?

** I wanna see Thanksgiving Day Town.

* A minor thing, but this troper has always wondered why Jack has an electric chair in his home. Is it the Halloween Town equivalent of a massage chair or something?

**** More like Halloweentown's version of [[Carrie|Chris Hargenson.]]He's a prankster like the rest. He's just a much bigger asshole about it.

**** You ''do'' realize that Chris is listed as a [[Complete Monster]], right?

* Am I the only one who sees how much of an egotistical, selfish twat Jack really is!? He's convinced himself he could do Christmas better than the people who do it for a living and when he fails the goes into self pity for a ''very'' short while. Because he's basically the boss no one ever tells him No. Considering how quickly he's willing to jump in to take over Christmas, AND how quickly he gets over his pity party, you can expect that this happens fairly often to him. Kinda make you wonder exactly how idealistic Jack and Sally's relationship is going to be....

** [[Fridge Logic|Wait,]] ''[[Fridge Logic|not]]'' [[Fridge Logic|quickly getting over his self-pity party isn't selfish?]] Also, while Jack ''can'' be egotistical and selfish, I think calling him a twat is overdoing it. Note that after he gets over his pity party, ''he goes to set things right''. I think Jack is more [[Jerk with a Heart of Gold|an egotistical guy who has a good heart]], as well as being an [[Idiot Hero]] and a [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]]. And I think Jack really ''hates'' the fact that people practically worship him and no one tells him no (again, note how distressed Jack gets when the citizens wouldn't let him go). That probably one of the reasons Jack loves Sally -- ''because'' she told him he was wrong. Plus, are we so sure it was "quickly"? The movie is about an hour and fifteen minutes, so we can't be sure just how long it took Jack to decide to take over Christmas. Also, that's Jack's [[Character Development]] -- learning that he ''can't'' do something better than the people who makes Christmas for a living (Hey, [[Not So Different|how many of us tropers thought we could make a movie better than the directors?]]). Actually, that's the reason why I like Jack -- he's not perfect, he has some serious flaws that not only gets him into trouble, but it causes the plot in the first place! Admittedly, Jack has done some questionable things (hiring three evil little trick-or-treaters to kidnap Santa) but then again, he both meant well (he obviously thought he was giving Santa a vacation) and has [[Blue and Orange Morality]] -- he probably didn't think kidnapping was wrong (Weekly in [[Halloweentown]]: Kidnapping parties! Next this week: the Mayor!....for the eighth week in a row.) As to how idealistic Jack and Sally's relationship will be.....it'll probably have some problems, but all couples have problems, it's the question of how well they deal with those problems. Jack and Sally most likely can teach each other the things they need to learn -- Sally can teach Jack how to think before leaping and be someone Jack cares about other then himself, and Jack can teach Sally not to take <s> life</s> afterlife so sadly and seriously. (Hey, like [[The Princess and the Frog|Tiana and Naveen]]!)

Everything's gone all wrong }}

* Soooooooooo........[[What Happened to the Mouse?|What Happened To The Elves?]] Seriously, you would think that Mrs. Claus or the elves would worry about the fact that, respectively, ''their husband and leader was kidnapped and taken to a ghoulish world''.

* [[Fan Girl|As much as I love Jack]], the part where he gets angry at Lock, Shock, and Barrel for going through the wrong door seems pretty douchey to me. I mean, he didn't even ''tell'' them that there's more than one door, it's his fault that they kidnapped the Easter Bunny!

** Actually, he said "Which door? There's more than one!". They just got the wrong shape.

* This troper's been thinking . . . is Sally really a [[Stalker with a Crush]]? The only times Sally is stalking without due cause (trying to get Jack to not go through with Christmas) that I can think of is when she listens to Jack in "Jack's Lament" and when she goes to give him the little gift basket. The former actually doesn't really count, as she was there first when Jack came into the cemetery. So is she?

** Yes.

**** During Jack's Lament, she follows him around, but is very particular about not wanting him to see her. Stalking is stalking, even if the intent is completely innocent.

**** This troper decided to look up the actual definition of stalking, and [http://law.yourdictionary.com yourdictionary.com] gave the law definition:

** So, at least by that definition and, if the website is to be believed, legally, Sally isn't a stalker, as in "Jack's Lament" and when she delivers the food basket, she didn't have the intention of harm<ref> and, like this troper said before, '''Sally was in the graveyard first''', not to mention she did have a somewhat valid reason for not wanting to be seen: 1. she's obviously very shy, and 2. when Jack starts to singing how he doesn't want to be the Pumpkin King anymore, it's pretty understandable why Sally didn't want to interrupt him. The Pumpkin King doesn't ''want'' the crown anymore? What is this!?! (His singing probably didn't hurt either)</ref>, and as for all the other times, trying to get your best friend (as they obviously are friends) to not get himself into trouble (remember that Sally's premeditation had a Christmas tree going up into flames, so the trouble is pretty big) is a pretty legitimate reason to follow him.

* ... in "Oogie's Revenge" and the first Kingdom Hearts game they animated Jack's mouth wrong. They stretched and squashed it into shape instead of replacing the position of the mouth frame-by-frame like in the original movie, and it bugs me. His face loses its vivacious quality without it. They fixed it in Kingdom Hearts 2, but still...

** And on that note, why didn't someone tell Chris Sarandon that it was "Finkle-STINE" in the movie, not "Finkle-STEEN" like he pronounced it in the games? I'm splitting hairs, but that's what this page is for...

* When Jack is shot down by the police and the people realize that Santa isn't coming, instead of going for a "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" moral and teaching Jack that Christmas was never just about the presents and decoration like he thought, they actually announce that Christmas will be cancelled this year because Santa can't come. Apparently, Christianity doesn't even exist in this universe.

** In the "real world" of this movie, Christmas exists as it is seen by children. That is why you never see the adults' faces, Santa really delivers presents, and the military will shoot down a Santa impersonator. From a kid's point of view, a lack of presents would mean Christmas really was cancelled. The movie just portrays this as the reaction of the entire world.

* Why is it Jack is the only one who got bored of Halloween? Has he been doing this longer than anyone else?

** Since he's basically become synonymous with Halloween in the first place, his ''whole life'' is forced to revolve around that one single day. It's understandable that sooner or later he'd get sick of it.

** Shock is clearly in a witch costume. Maybe it could be a really bad wizard costume? Or if she was, as one fan theory states, a human child in a Halloween costume, maybe "he" had really gender-identity-liberal parents?

** I'm pretty sure "boys" wasn't actually referring to gender. Kind like saying "Hey, you guys!" when one of them is a she.

** I like to think that Jack has some unconscious powers that come directly from being synonymous with the holiday of Halloween, or at least it responds to him more than to other residents. He apparently had the ability to unfurl that [[Buffy-Speak|twisted hill thing]], so he was probably led directly to the holiday trees subconsciously while he was asleep through the same force that did the aforementioned unfurling of the thinggy.

 

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