Automoderated users, Autopatrolled users, Bureaucrats, Comment administrators, Confirmed users, Moderators, Rollbackers, Administrators
213,684
edits
Umineko: When They Cry/WMG/Colored Text: Difference between revisions
Umineko: When They Cry/WMG/Colored Text (view source)
Revision as of 15:59, 21 April 2024
, 1 month agono edit summary
No edit summary |
No edit summary |
||
Line 22:
* Rather than using the red truth, trick Beato (somehow?) into lying in red to either see if it works or to see her strangle herself on an impossible-to-exist red lie.
== Things to do with
* Say nothing said in red so far has been the truth.
** Not sure this would work. The way I figure it is "one interpretation of something said in red is true or you can't say it; all interpretations of something said in gold are true or you can't say it."
* Kill the <s><span style="color:red;">[[House of Leaves|Minotaur]]</span></s>
* "<s>Dine's</s>
== <span
In The Stake's Valentine's Day; Ronove is commenting on how Angel's Horn or Devil's Horn is perfect on Chocolates; when suddenly a [[Do Not Try This At Home]] disclaimer appears in
* However, the
* Adding to that, the
**
*** Apparently it's some kind of grimoire text. I went to a [https://web.archive.org/web/20120701213418/http://jbcs.info/Umineko/screenshot/generator.html screenshot generator for ''Umineko''] and the text section had a hex code for green text, and called it "grimoire text".
**** You misunderstood. "Grimore" is how the [[Fan Translation|Witch-Hunt]] call the the part of the menu they explain their translation. In their translation, every time you see the
== Gold truth is premise truth ==
Line 40:
* {{spoiler|Despite being a supernatural element the Gold text is accepted even in the face of Knox's 2nd rule. It reminds me of the part of the conversation Dlanor had with Battler where Battler pointed out that there were good mysteries that had secret doors and she responded that in those stories part of the premise was that "secret doors exist", meaning the Knox rules do not hold up against the premise of the story.}}
* Further The Gold Truth is limited to the master of the kakera, which corresponds to the premise of a story being limited to the author.
** The statement is "
* This also fits with the comment about it being both superior and inferior, on par with the red truth, premise of the story could be
I am not sure if this falls in line with the common "No distortions of the truth" theory because of the "Because it is truly solvable, does not mean it is solvable for you" thing, intentional distortions, yes, but if a stated premise can mean something different to the author and the reader, so the gold could possibly be misinterpreted under this theory.
* I think it's been confirmed that red truth is subjective truth, which made me think that gold truth could be objective truth. Then again, I'm not sure how either would work, so your explanation, which is more thought out than mine, makes more sense right now.
**
*** That's probably the best way to think of it. I think the easiest way to interpret it without contradicting any of the previous colored truths or the fundamental game itself is to the think of the gold truth like an incarnation of the rules, much like Beato is. Anyone who understands the whole truth about Beato's game can use it and it is allowed to speak any truth pertaining to those rules. For example, EP 5, Battler can use it to guarantee Kinzo's corpse because that is one of the rules Beato's game revolves around, it's part of the core mystery and is an established fact by the rules of the games. Unlike the red truth though, the gold truth seems like it can't be used for any statement outside of that though.
Line 88:
# <span style="color:blue;">There is an organization attempting to exterminate the supernatural. That organization's rules forbid supernatural elements.</span>
* This can count as a WMG regarding the rules for using the Red Truth. As for the info itself, I love it, though, I felt a few added touches were necessary. Hope you don't mind.<ref>
* <span style="color:red;">I respectfully disagree with the OP. At first I thought this WMG was pure, unbridled genius,</span> <span style="color:blue;">but the principle that the red text didn't take the actual meaning of the speaker into account doesn't make sense.</span>
Line 97:
To make everyone on the internet start using colored text to discuss mysteries in a visually easy-to-understand method. Face it, <span style="color:red;">Using red and blue truth to argue and debate is way too damn fun.</span>
* <span style="color:red;">This is plausible.</span> Why? Because the OP is right, <span style="color:red;">using the Red Truth, the Blue Truth, and even the Golden Truth to argue and debate is way too damn fun.</span>
**
*** The Green Truth [[Breaking the Fourth Wall|breaks the Fourth Wall]], [[Yu-Gi-Oh!: The Abridged Series|which causes trouble and can ultimately destroy the Multiverse.]]
*** The Green Truth goes around [[Breaking the Fourth Wall]], getting drunk and dialing up old witches in the middle of the night. We didn't invite him for a reason. Hey, wait, why isn't that red? Don't tell me <span style="color:red;">I made a terrible joke.</span> What!? Oh, come on...
Line 194:
*** (Respondent here.) I would say the scene in EP5 where Natsuhi, Krauss, Nanjo, and (possibly, not certain) Kumasawa are in Kinzo's study and the old fart has just passed away. The one where Natsuhi convinces the others to pretend that [[Of Corpse He's Alive|Kinzo is still alive]].
**** ...Um, so? Not only is that a flashback provided by supernatural means, but there's no empirical evidence left behind that Battler can use, such as a diary or anything.
***** (Respondent here.) <span style="color:red;">A diary belonging to Natsuhi was mentioned in EP5.</span> Battler can ask for the date of Kinzo's alleged death and compare Natsuhi's entry against that of a more "sane" person (say, Nanjo's records) and ''voila'', confirmation.
****** <span style="color:red;">Knox's 8th. It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented.</span> Where was it stated that Gold needs a check for absolute validity and/or that all Gold statements can be said in red, but not (always) vice versa?
******* (Respondent here.) Mmm. Well played. It's stated on this wiki's Main Page for ''Umineko'', which, upon consideration, stirs a question of my own. Where the hell did '''they''' get it from? Anyone up for some snooping? In the meantime, I demoted the statements in question until they have some support from the series itself. <span style="color:red;">Valid support can come from either of the three versions of the story so far. The '''games''' or either the '''manga''' or the '''anime''' should either one ever get to where the Golden Truth is explained.</span>
Line 221:
* So what does Kinzo's corpse have to do with Beatrice's Heart?
** Unless Beatrice is some sort of Frankensteinian Zombie, nothing physical. Kinzo's Corpse is part of the 'rules'. A better way to put it is 'The Golden Truth is this story's [[Anthropic Principle]]. Denying that it's Kinzo's Corpse if it's stated to be Kinzo's Corpse in gold is effectively the same as playing a game of chess and putting the king in your pocket to protect it when it's in a position of checkmate.
* So basically, {{color|blue| the Golden Truth is the statement of rules of Beatrice's game.}} This, in a way, combines the idea of "Beatrice's heart" (as Beatrice is the embodiment of the rules), premise truth (as the rules are based off the premise), AND explains Ryukishi's statement that "even pieces can use the Golden Truth." After all, if you're in an RP and a player starts godmodding, you can accuse them of breaking the rule
== The reason the creators introduced colored text? ==
Line 283:
== We need to adopt the Schroedinger's truth from the above WMG for our arguments. ==
* Seriously, it's awesome. Although it needs a simpler color to write and use. I propose
** Isn't Schroedinger's Truth effectively the same as Blue Truth? They serve the exact same function and properties.
** <span style="color:red;">Schroedinger's Truth is used to indicate that one of two or more possibilities is correct (like the red) without mentioning which one.</span> I propose that we use Schrodinger's Truth like this:
In other words, purple is used to indicate parts of a statement that can be spoken in red, and grey indicates the parts that are still uncertain. Numbering is used to indicate logical connections between possibilities, as in "If item W is true, items X, Y, and Z are true, and vice versa. Items W, X, Y, and Z will therefore all be numbered 1."
** {{color|blue| So it's basically identical to using multiple Blue Truths. Got it.}}
*** Not quite. In fact, <span style="color:red;">there are many incorrect uses of the blue on this WMG,</span> as Blue's nature is not to postulate the rules or evidence, but to provide a theory which behaves as a solution to a given problem. Schrodinger's truth is not a truth of providing a theory, but to analyze the validity of a theory.
**** All Blue Truth is is to posit something that may or may not be true. This Schroedringer's Truth is not only needlessly complex, but it's purpose has already been canonically filled by other instances of the Blue.
***** Blue is used to declare hypotheses, Schroedringer's Truth is used to declare that if X is true then Y must also be true. For example, "
****** Then it could be called the
****** Again, Blue Truth already works this way. Infact, this is the exact format Beatrice and Ange used it in during the scene wherein they debated Battler's parentage. {{color|blue| This truth is redundant.}}
******* (6th respondent here.) <span style="color:red;">Blue Truth proposes only one possibility, while Schroedinger's Truth proposes multiple ones, among which, is the real truth, not a twisted or omitted truth, but '''THE''' truth, the '''WHOLE''' truth, and '''NOTHING BUT''' the truth, so help us Beatrice.</span> Furthermore, to recite what the original creator of Schroedinger's Truth said of it, "''
******* <span style="color:red;">The Blue Truths regarding Battler's qualification and by extension his parentage are as follows:</span>
Line 305:
<span style="color:red;">None of those followed the same format as the Truth of Alternate Possibilities.</span>
'''UPDATE''': (6th respondent here.) Due to the introduction of the Purple Declaration in EP5, it is called for that this be re-colored. I propose {{color|orange|Orange}} for Confirmed Red and
== One Truth, Two Truth... ==
Line 326:
** Battler: <span style="color:red;">X is the culprit</span>
** Dllanor: Can you back it up with human side evidence?
** Battler:
** Dllanor: What's Y?
** Battler: Telling you would ruin the mystery and defeat the witch side, that's why its a golden truth.
== The Golden Truth is the use of Braun Tube in colour ==
* Okay, i haven't read through Chiru perfectly but to me the use of the golden truth seems pretty easy to understand when you think about it (at least it's use in episode 5). The game says it is stronger than red in some cases and weaker in some. Isn't that rather similar to the Braun Tube that they talk about. For example at the end of Episode 5 where Battler says that Kinzo is dead in gold, if you use the Braun Tube argument here then it means that it works as a blue truth that only can be countered by opening up the tube and if the golden truth is correct then it is stronger than Red while if it is wrong it is weaker.
Line 347 ⟶ 348:
A case of an inferior Golden Truth is the one that states that Beato used 'magic' with the overturned cup.
Magic CAN be denied because the game was made with riddles that can be solved. Beato used the same magic that has been used before, and it was declared as a 'splendid display' because it was done perfectly. Remember that Beatrice said that simply saying magic exist in red would not make a game. Seeing this way, that Golden Truth is inferior because a blue truth revealing the 'trick' would defeat that particualr Golden Truth, but following the rules of the game it is still not a lie.
Line 359 ⟶ 360:
We could have this Golden Truth
----
| |||