Young Justice (animation)/Headscratchers: Difference between revisions

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* How come so little about Earth 16 history is unknown?

 

* Artemis is [[The Mole]], really? I don't think so. [[Xanatos Gambit|We're talking about Greg Weisman here]]; it would be too obvious. The villain in the "Infiltrator" episode threatened to reveal Artemis' identity. If she was working for the Light, why would she threaten her?.

* Why does everyone think that Robin is somehow destined to lead the group? Yes he has more experience but he's by far the youngest and a big smartass.

** Because he's the partner to [[Memetic Badass|Batman]]. He's got the most skill, the most brains and the most experience and training. Also [[Genre Savvy]] regarding the comics?

*** This doesn't make a lot of sense since he has experience but it's not the most useful experience for the situations he has to deal with. He doesn't have experience being on a team for one thing and there's no saying that by the time Robin is "ready to lead" his other teammates won't have a comprable level of experience and training. It could be argued that all Robin actually has is a head start when it comes to super-heroing but that any of the team members could catch up to him.

** It's worth noting that Robin is the most ambitious and tends to set their goals whereas the rest of the team defaults to "this looks suspicious; let's go back". He also tends to see the bigger picture. These qualities don't really stand out much though given they're currently only a recon team and are tasked with simple objectives.

*** [[Tear Jerker|Not anymore...]]

** The Dick Grayson and Tim Drake versions of Robin both led the [[Teen Titans (Comic Book)|Teen Titans]] and Tim led the comic book version of [[Young Justice (comics)|Young Justice]]. (Although personally I thought it was obvious they were setting Aqualad up to be the leader from the pilot).

** Can we say that Dick Grayson is highly known for his natural leadership skills? He might still need to learn how to control impulses and lose some immaturity (which is justified since he's only thirteen here) but it's been present. Heck; the pilot itself has him act first and think quickly while the rest look on with dumbfounded faces.

*** Yeah; it's kind of ironic that Dick Grayson (who's been doing the leader thing for nearly 60 years and currently heads the ''Justice League'' in the comics) of all people has to be second-guessed on his leadership skills because there had to be a reason for Aqualad to be written in as the leader...at least for now. Granted Aqualad is more qualified at the moment but the whole thing was handled less than optimally.

*** In "Bereft", with Aqualad KO'd, Robin takes over almost automatically. He might not have experience dealing with this sort of team but he's learning fast.

*** Once again in "Failsafe," As soon as Aqualad "dies", Robin takes charge and no one questions him. They all trust in his experience and knowledge so it's not that weird to assume he'll eventually lead the team one day.

** While Robin does seem to be a jerkass often in this show, he was almost just as annoying in the main DCU in the beginning too and (As Nightwing) is considered to be the heart of the DCU and the only hero anyone would follow bravely into any unknown. He'll probably grow into this in the this canon also.

*** Or that she simply has a more alien real appearance. Green Martians in their true forms don't look like humans with green skin, after all.

** We already have a character posing as a Leaguer's niece. Why can't we have another?

** I don't know...In "Bereft," she has no memory of coming to Earth yet still refers to the Martian Manhunter as "Uncle J'onn." Unless she's a very quick thinker who instantaniously decided to pretend to be his niece, I don't find that too likely.

** This was heavily hinted at in "Targets" with Megan's "...of course I'm Green".

*** Before Megan says that, she mentions that the White Martians are treated as second-class citizens by the Green Martians. I'm not a comic book expert but aren't White Martians portrayed as being vicious bloodthirsty warriors in the comics? Either the portrayals of Green Martians and White Martians have been reversed in the show or Megan was lying.

*** They're not mutually exclusive. They could be treated as second-class citizens ''because'' they're bloodthirsty warriors.

** As of "Disordered", I'm calling it Confirmed. The way she freaks out at the idea of turning White...

**** There's one minor problem with explaining M'gann's freakout over the "You've turned white" comment as her being worried about losing control of her shapeshifting: she calms down ''very'' quickly when she sees Black Canary meant Caucasian but turning Caucasian wouldn't be ''that'' much less of an indicator of losing control of her shapeshifting than turning literally white. Well...unless her natural colour was white but that would indicate that she ''is'' a White Martian.

** As of "Image", {{spoiler|Confirmed. She's a White Martian. It was hinted that she might be fighting her darker nature, but she mostly seems afraid of showing her rather hideous form.}}

** Why would Batman allow any training to be that easy and have the same weak spots that Robin already knows about?

** Training? I got the impression it was an actual mission. After all if it was a training stimulation, why would Batman need to jump in to help? Why couldn't he just stop/pause the stimulation?

** Also possible that Batman's element of surprise from his [[Dynamic Entry]] was a factor. Thus far the team has done a God-awful job of keeping hidden until they attack. Clayface could have dodged and taken out Robin's taser.

** Judging by the Tie-In comic covers, we'll get an answer in issue 12

*** [http://youngjustice.wikia.com/wiki/Young_Justice_Issue_12#Solicitation Here's the Solicitation for the issue in question.] Assuming that it's accurate to what happens in the issue, there's the answer to the question: Robin ''hadn't'' fought Clayface before and Clayface is a newly-created villain in this universe.

*** The entire battle leading up to the beginning of "Downtime" is portrayed in issue 13 of the comics - {{spoiler|1=the Team were unaware of Clayface's shapeshifting abilities, so he took them out one by one by pretending to be different members of the Team. He took out Robin by becoming ''two'' KFs, and Robin assumed that one was an imposter and therefore the other was real, allowing Clayface to trick him and take him by surprise}}.

 

* Batman has to know who Aqualad's dad is and what Artemis's history is. Why else would he insist that Robin keep his identity secret? He is [[Crazy Prepared|Batman]], people. What I don't get is why is he hiding this from Robin or Kid Flash?

** Because he's [[Crazy Prepared|Batman]]. He likely has good logical reasons for divulging such information since he's likely got it covered. Heck; he might not even think it really matters who is whose daddy or how checkered one's past is as long as they're fighting the good fight.

**** As of "Secrets", it's apparent he does know all about Artemis' identity, but nothing is said on Kaldur. So that means that Batman does tell him some things. Then again, [[Batman Can Breathe in Space|He's]] [[Badass Normal|Batman]], so we all know he knows that Wally knows who Robin is. So he would probably withhold some things, out of a fear that Robin would blab to his [[Heterosexual Life Partners|Bestie]].

***** It's more likely that Robin figured out who Artemis was on his own than that Batman told him.

**** With no idea who he was or what was happening to him. A problem that only Megan could solve unlike Aqualad.

**** Yeah; she was the only one who could fight the memory loss making the security of her head top priority for the team. The way she ran off without back up could have easily ended with her losing her memory ''again'' and leaving the team down the only superpowered member who was functioning. Superboy may be able to feel pain but he has yet to have been physically hurt over the long term. He was being tortured but unless they had Kryptonite, he wasn't in any danger of permanent damage or death like Aqualad at the time. The most responsible thing to have done would've been to regroup and think out a plan to save Superboy with the team instead of charging in.

***** Not to mention a fairly large part of this show is their comparative inexperience. The team in general doesn't make perfect decisions 100% of the time; we can't expect to see every single example held up as reprehensible or that would basically be the whole show.

***** My guess why this particular instance rubbed people the wrong way was because Megan's emotional decision put the mission and the rest of the team at risk instead of just herself. Her choice could have lead to disaster for everyone and I think she should have at least been called out on it to show it was the wrong decision to make.

******* But it wasn't. If she hadn't done what she'd done, Superboy could have been kidnapped by evil scientists. He could have been tortured to death. He could have escaped and killed someone in a way that might have been traumatising to realise when she restored his mind. Compared to leaving Aqualad in one completely functioning and two semi-functioning heroes' hands when he had a less pressing issue to worry about...when Superboy had nobody at all? How is that the wrong decision? As to all this emotional/crush/etc. stuff, the show doesn't support that particularly; there's nothing to say she wouldn't have done the same for anyone...especially any teammate...being brutally tortured. Also Kid Flash did the same thing for much less reason in Drop Zone when he revealed everyone after going to look for Robin, jepordizing the mission by preventing stealth. I don't see a long Just Bugs Me for that.

****** It was the wrong decision because they still had no idea how they had lost their memories. For all Megan knew, she was walking right into another memory lose situation where she'd have been useless to both Superboy and the team (something Robin yelled after her when she bolted). Superboy is a clone of Superman; he's indestructible so he wasn't going to die anytime soon. The best way to have saved him without putting the mission and the team at risk (because if they lost Megan, they probably wouldn't have a way to retreat) would have been to consult with the team and come up with a strategy. Kid Flash's screw up in ''Drop Zone'' (Sorry they both had D's in the title) was less serious IMO because the team was intact and not in crisis like it was in ''Bereft''. Everyone was at a hundred percent and they had a means of retreat if they had too, not so in this situation.

******** Except that actually since Superboy is way less powerful than Superman and can be hurt easily by random robotic monkeys, that...doesn't really apply. And again it may not have been ''the best plan in the history of the universe'' but as a quickfire decision when every second counted, it doesn't deserve to get vilified; certainly no more than the many mistakes most everyone on the team has at some point made and gotten away with. Also in Drop Zone (...Downtime, what?), Wally revealed their position in a stealth mission for no reason at all when he knew Robin regularly did the whole 'disappearing act' thing and was likely fine. He nearly got them all killed and threw the entire thing. It's hard for non-speedsters to be confident they can retreat from unprepared for gunfire.

******** Aqualad's survival is debatable; it's only "Okay" since we know the outcome but at that point in time, there was no way for other to tell whether he would have survived any longer. Kid Flash was faulty for reckless acting in his pursuit of Robin but he wasn't overly consumed by his emotions towards another team member (or anyone else really) to let it override his reasoning. A huge problem is that Megan could have helped Aqualad first and could have ensured he was stabilized rather than leaving him with her other teammates who may have been capable of handling him somewhat but not when they're depowered and have a milita on their tails. I'm not saying what Megan did should not have happened but it really should have been pointed out to her that her behavior was completely inappropriate for their mission. If the bioship was too far out of range for her to call it back, what would have ensured that the team had found it soon thus avoiding the Biyalian milita and Aqualad suffering from severe dehydration and the risk of heatstroke? Most likely it's invisible since the Biyalians are ont hr prowl so why did Megan think leaving her other three teammates to fend for themselves and waltzing into a dangerous situation to save one teammate was such a good idea? The argument of Superboy's suffering is only justified if her other teammates could avoid a similar fate: Aqualad was suffering too and there's no way you should be able to say "oh; he wasn't in the same type of pain as Superboy!" [[And I Must Scream|because he's an Atlantean...who has been in the desert...for around 24 hours.]] Who knows what else could have happened had she failed and lost to Psimon like she did the first time? Who knows what would have happened had the Biyalians found the other three?

** Wow; this '''thread''' just bugs me. I mean let's look shall we? Megan is "overemotional", incapable of caring about anything but her crush, needs to be punished for making a decision that saved the day and made sense with the information she had to hand since all she really knew was that Supes was being tortured and had no mind and that Aqualad had Rob/Art/KF to look after him. Bearing in mind that without a leader and as the only one with access to all the information she had to basically make her own splitsecond decision. Meanwhile like said above, Wally gets excused for making the exact same mistake without the justification. [[Unfortunate Implications]] much, guys? Think about it. Maybe the fandom's made me jaded but geez. Yeah. Those overemotional girls with their girly crushes saving people from...Er...being tortured and kidnapped.

*** I think the trope you're looking for is [[Double Standard]]. Wonder if the [[Fan Dumb]] would criticize Megan for going to save Superboy if she was a guy?

**** It atleast calls for [[What the Hell, Hero?]] on the main page after all the rest of YJ DID call her out on it. But it's a really tough decision. On the one hand you have Aqualad who is dying of dehydration and has no memories but has 3 friends to help him; on the other hand, we have Superboy who is litterly a mindless animal, being tortured, and screaming out in pain. Who do you save: the starving teammate with 3 friends or the dying teamamte who had his mind erased and cant even think?

***** And how do you know Megan didn't get chewed out by Batman once they got back to base?

***** And how do you know she did? This whole thing is entirely subjective and can be best summed up as this? Was it the right thing to do? Debatable. Did she think things through? Personally no but again debatable. Should she be called out for her actions? Yeah. Did it work out in the end? Yes. I think we're all forgetting the idea behind Young Justice, key word being '''''Young'''''. [[Fridge Brilliance|They're new at this (working in a team environment rather than a partnership or even less in Megan's case) so of course they're going to make rookie mistakes.]] Otherwise wouldn't they be good enough to be in the Justice League by now?

***** Uh...guys? I think we're all forgetting something: Megan already did something like this ''for someone who wasn't Superboy''. In Infiltrator, she ditched Artemis to save Kid Flash from drowning. [[Double Standard|I guess abandoning your teammate to save someones life is wrong when that someone is a love interest.]]

****** Different case. Artemis was fully armed and not in danger of dying when Megan went to save Kid Flash. Aqualad was dying and was protected by one out of energy Fragile Speedster, one [[Badass Normal]] without her equipment and one [[Badass Normal]] who is not going to be able to stand up to tanks without some serious firepower. Additionally it's still debatable about whether or not Superboy would have died if she hadn't shown up.

** This thread is a waste of space. Yes; Megan leaving on her own to go rescue Superboy was reckless. That was pointed out in the episode itself. This Troper got the impression that she was just reacting to feeling someone who was in pain in her head. She should have at least waited to get a bit of a plan together but she reacted on instincts to save someone who was being tortured. This Troper also got the impression that Megan would have reacted the same way if any of the other people on the team were the one(s) being hurt. It's just a part of Megan's characterization that she will act without thinking clearly when it comes to trying to help someone.

** I'm just a little bit shocked that this was worth arguing about. Jesus Christ.

** Something that bears noting: M'gann was the only member of the team with the skills necessary to successfully rescue Conner. Any of the others would have been unable to combat Psimon's powers. If she had brought backup when she went to save Conner, who knows what Psimon could have made them do? Regardless of her motivations or the objective recklessness of her actions, in hindsight it was the best decision to produce the best result.

** I have a few questions

*** Why is Megan's alleged screw up worse than all the others? Dick and Wally rush off. Conner rushes in. Artemis (My fave by the way) lets Chessire, a professional killer go rather than face an awkward explanation to her friends. Kaldur has lead the team into some serious smackdowns (And forgot to bring his own damn water).

*** Why wasn't the bio-ship stealth parked next to that black thing that paracuted in? In fact, why didn't they leave the black thing in there? If they were going to be in the desert for more than a day Kaldur would have appreciated having somewhere to rest out of the sun.

** Nabu needed a new host. Wally was available. Morality didn't really seem to figure in it at all unless you count Nabu's need to fulfil his role as a Lord of Order. However as you mention, Nelson agrees with you that it was wrong and [[What the Hell, Hero?|calls him out on it]], convincing him to relent.

** [[Blue and Orange Morality]], plain and simple. Nabu only cares about his fight with Chaos. Mortals are just pawns for him to use. Arguably the only reason he agreed to releasing Wally was that Wally was so against the idea of magic that he was arguably the worst person to possess if Nabu wanted to use his full powers.

 

* OK; so just what the hell was that ball thing in "Bereft"? I've been digging through wikis and such for information about it and {{spoiler|it's clear it came from Apokolips}} but I can't find any info on it.

** It could be a G-nome.

** No horns = not a G-nome.

 

* In 'Bereft', when M'gann first attempts to jog her memory, the two scenes she remembers are herself baking cookies for the team and the voice of Aqualad telling her to go do some infiltrating while Superboy tells her to be careful. Since she never saw Aqualad in those memories, she doesn't remember that he's a member of the team.....But she ''heard'' his voice in that brief memory so why doesn't she think that there must simply be a sixth member she doesn't know?

** While it's true that we don't yet know ''for sure'' what the name of the sitcom she got her catchphrase from is, closed captioning means diddly-squat as evidence either way; it's just one person's interpretation of what was said for the benefit of the hearing-impaired, not based on the original script or anything. We'll know for sure once "Downtime" comes to DVD (as the subtitles on those ''are'' official) but for now, the fact that [[Greg Weisman]] called the "Hello, Megan!" shirt he was wearing to SDCC "in fact a spoiler" makes me think that it's a sample of in-show merchandise which lends credence to the notion that that is indeed the name of the sitcom in question.

 

 

* Why does everyone call Megan by her real name instead of her Earth name? She told them to call her "Megan".

** Aqualad actually has an excuse that makes sense: he's the sidekick of a king (Ever notice how he never calls his mentor "Aquaman" or "sir" and always calls him "my king" which is Aquaman's rank in Atlantis) and therefore puts high priority on formality and decorum. Calling M'gann "Megan" would likely feel too informal to sit right with him.

 

** They could be half-sisters with different dads maybe?

*** That would explain why Jade looks full Vietnamese while Artemis is obviously half. And why Cheshire and Sportsmaster get along so poorly.

*** Unlikely; the credits from "Homefront" also give ''her'' name as Paula Brooks which would indicate that that was her maiden name. Again it's probably more likely that Jade just picked very common Vietnamese surname "Nguyen" to distance herself from her Caucasian father.

** According to Ask Greg, Paula's maiden name is Nguyen. So the "Brooks" was a mistake. Although, are you sure about it saying Brooks? 'Cause the Young Justice Wiki article doesn't mention that, and neither do the credits for the episode on Greg Weisman's site. Could you have misread it?

** Maybe a little but probably for no particular reason. He's childish, immature and in charge of them which is enough for any teenager to resent. He's new to the group and the team is despite its faults fairly tight-knit. They also had to save him on the first mission he accompanied them on; all and all, it's just a bunch of little things that will probably wear off as the team warms up to him.

** I think the team doesn't realize that Captain Marvel is a ten-year-old kid in the body of an adult with godlike powers so his immaturity really throws them off.

** [[Fridge Brilliance|Don't forget]]; Wally in this universe seems to have some sort of trust issues; see how he really hates it when Artemis replaces Roy for instance and now here is Captain Marvel "replacing" RT...

*** I'd peg that more to his not liking change than trust issues. He has his friends, and then they get replaced by some schmuck... anyone would be a little annoyed. ([[Unresolved Sexual Tension|or really annoyed when that new person is a hot chick]]...)

* Why didn't Robin have EMP devices in Episode 15? I mean he didn't use them earlier since he said he was fresh out but now that they actually planned to go after the Reds, wouldn't it be prudent to have had some in the first place? I doubt Robin wouldn't be smart enough to carry some on him from now on after the whole HQ fiasco.

** Because they didn't work nearly as well as he had hoped and only took out the Reds for a short time and not nearly long enough to be a viable weapon in he field.

 

* In the first night ops mission Superboy overhears Bane speak in Spanish and suddenly smiles; what the hell is he smiling for and pay attention to the smile; it's not a happy one; it's one of those sly smiles.

** Not to mention {{spoiler|How after J'onn appears, M'gann starts making various absurd reasonings about how J'onn could be alive and that no one else was actually killed just transported akin to a bad fanfic writer trying to write themselves out of a hole which are immediately taken to be fact, hinting at how she is controlling the situation}}

** And another one. {{spoiler|there are only 48 stars on the American flag after M'gann takes over.}}

 

* If Secret {{spoiler|was indeed a ghost and also intangible,}} how was she able to remove Zatanna's gag?

**** Whoops, got it backwards. The ''container'' (which never moved in the kid world) would end up back in the lab, and the Starro chunk would be with the villains (but flopping onto the ground).

**** The container remained with the Starro chunk for, presumably, the same reason why people's clothes remained with them when the worlds recombined. If it's actually ''attached'' to a living thing, the spell seems to "read" it as a part of that living thing.

* In "Coldhearted," why didn't anyone tell Wally that the donor heart was meant for {{spoiler|Queen Perdita}}? I definitely agree with the moral logic that she's just as important as any other kid, but even if the League somehow didn't know that {{spoiler|[[The Evil Prince|Count Vertigo]] had [[Diplomatic Impunity]]}}, it's not hard to figure out that she would have been a target to some villain. If nothing else, knowing the consequences of the girl's death might provide some extra motivation.

* So if Queen Bee's powers are based on seduction (works on "most men and some women" suggests that the target has to be attracted to her), how did it work on an 8 year old boy?

** We don't know how it works specifically. It could be psychic and the person just needs to potentially find her attractive in order to get a foothold, or she could be ''able'' to control people who aren't attracted to her with much greater difficulty, or she could have just hit Gar with a tranquilizer and was lying about him being in her control at all (since the point of that was to manipulate M'gann, not make Gar himself actually do anything). Or there could be other factors I didn't think of. Until/unless we get a detailed rundown of Queen Bee's powers, we just can't say.

*** Also adrenaline. They literally ''just'' finished defeating their own brainwashed mentors and winning the most comprehensive victory in their team's history. They're filling giddy, energized, and considerably less risk averse than usual.

*** But seriously. IT'S NEW YEARS. Some people kiss random strangers in the name of the tradition.

** I'm just bugged no one lampshaded that it was lucky the team had a 50/50 boy/girl ratio.

* At this point I can't really say if I actually imagined the whole thing but, I was pretty certain [[Word of God]] had said that someone would die during the first season, yet the finale aired just yesterday and, well, what the hell.

*** Which, again, assumes that Rann reported this incident to the rest of the universe. If they never did, the local GL would never investigate and it would never be reported to Oa.

*** There's another reason. Rann's government is apparently very xenophobic and as a result condemns any contact with aliens.

*** This is not about the League not finding anything in Space, either, it's the fact that no one thought to even try and see if anything was going on outside of earth.

*** But why would they think to? The Light is a decidedly Earth-based organization. As has been said over and over, you can't just up and decide to "check space". Where would they begin? Without a place to start, why bother looking at all? There's no reason to.

**** Wrong. In this metaphor, Amazon.com is the Green Lantern Corps, making the search engine the guy most continuities know as Salaak. Space is the internet itself. When you need to find out about a crime in space, you should talk to the massive army that has made it a point to police as much of it as possible. Just because it's not guaranteed to work doesn't mean you shouldn't make some effort. Which, again, is the crux of the argument. The Light used the Justice League for some nefarious, obviously criminal purpose, and the Justice League did not do everything within its power to try and find it out. And the very planet Earth is paying for it.

** I was more surprised that Batman didn't seem to have considered the possibility.

** After a few years passed with nothing following from the missing sixteen hours, they likely started to think that whatever the plan had been it hadn't worked. It became a bit of a puzzle, but not an urgent investigation. They had no real reason to even think that they'd be sent into space anyway.

** Was it ever stated that they never looked into space at all? I would think the usage of boom tube as opposed to zeta beam would suggest that they weren't on Earth. Then again, if they know boom tubes were involved, then the logical thing to do would be to try and contact the Forever People. New Genesis and Apokolips would be the first two potential locations on my list (though I guess they can't just go ask Darkseid "hey, did you see these guys here?"). Then I'd contact the Guardians and check on planets Earth has relations with, such as Mars and Thanagar. After that, well, I'll admit, Rann wouldn't be the next target on my list.

** He might not have wanted to reveal the true nature of the Scarab since it would mean admitting that there's an amoral artificial intelligence bonded to him. The others might think he's a security risk. Which he kind of ''is'', given the true nature of the Scarab as an alien weapon of infiltration and destruction which even Jaime doesn't seem to know (He and Captain Atom think it's Ted Kord's last invention).

** Which is pretty odd if you think about it, why would an AI created by a hero be that amoral ?

** The way he talks to Superboy in "Salvage" makes me think he's very new and hasn't had the chance to explain to the others

* So did anyone not see that early bird cameo of [[Static Shock]] in the Justice Hall?

*** Why? What could've happened? Besides, he was apparently fine with revealing that Barry would have twins and at least one grandson, so he didn't show much regard for the timestream (and let's not even mention how much more extensive the effects on the timestream would be by him staying in the past than him coming clean about why he came back). And even if if that was the case, why couldn't he just say: "Hey Flash, I know this Neutron guy, and I have something that can stop him before he does any more damage, so why don't you leave this to me, eh?" That way, he's not revealing details about the future, but still preventing Flash's death with little effort.

 

[[Category:Young Justice]]

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[[Category:Headscratchers (animation)]]